In this conversation, Debra Rienstra, PhD, author of Refugia Faith and professor of English at Calvin University, joins Victoria Loorz to explore refugia, a biological term for small pockets of life that survive widespread environmental stress and become sources of regeneration after collapse. Debra invites us to imagine these protected pockets are also in our communities as forms of sanctuary amid increasingly uninhabitable social, spiritual, and ecological conditions. Together, they reflect on how small gatherings rooted in love for the land can counter paralysis in the face of global crisis and rewild our sense of vocation and voice. They explore the spiritual risk of loving places we may not own or keep, while naming how restoration begins through intimate, connected acts of care that allow life to persist and return.

Connect with Debra:

• Website: debrarienstra.com
• Book: Refugia Faith: Seeking Hidden Shelters, Ordinary Wonders, and the Healing of the Earth
• Newsletter: refugianewsletter.substack.com
• Upcoming Book: Refugia Church (January 2027)

Mentioned in the episode:

• Book: Great Tide Rising: Towards Clarity and Moral Courage in a time of Planetary Change by Kathleen Dean Moore
• Organization: blackchurchfoodsecurity.net
• Book: Here Comes the Sun: A Last Chance for the Climate and a Fresh Chance for Civilization by Bill McKibben
• Encyclical Letter Laudato Si' of the Holy Father Francis on Care For Our Common Home
• Encyclical Letter Fratelli Tutti of the Holy Father Francis on Fraternity and Social Friendship

Connect with the Center:

• Website: wildspirituality.earth
• Victoria's Website: victorialoorz.com
• Email: [email protected]
• Linktree: linktr.ee/ctrforwildspirituality
• Instagram: @center_for_wild_spirituality

Timestamps:

• 00:00 — Introduction
• 03:48 — Refugia
• 08:58 — Finding My Small Work
• 11:44 — Deciding the Work Based on Context
• 14:33 — Examples of Human Refugia
• 20:21 — From Passivity to Citizenship
• 24:21 — Loving Places That Are Only Yours for a Time
• 29:36 — Choosing to Belong
• 31:59 — Grieving Reality Together
• 34:18 — Mitigation and Adaptation
• 40:02 — A Kalo Farmer in Relationship With the Land
• 43:04 — The Book of Nature & Pantheism Paranoia
• 46:30 — The Wild Edge
• 50:03 — Wild Invitation
• 53:24 — Credits