In today’s episode, I bring you a fascinating conversation with John Tomsett and Mary Myatt – two people who’ve done so much to shape thinking about curriculum and leadership in schools over recent years.

Mary Myatt is an education adviser, writer and speaker. She started out as an RE teacher and has written extensively about curriculum, leadership and school improvement – books like High Challenge, Low Threat, The Curriculum: Gallimaufry to Coherence and of course the original Huh.

John Tomsett taught in state schools for over three decades, including 18 years as a headteacher. He’s written widely about leadership and mental health in schools, including Love Over Fear, Mind Over Matter, and Putting Staff First. He’s also one of the leading figures in the evidence-informed education movement and former leader of Huntington Research School in York.

This conversation centres around their latest collaboration, AP Huh, which is part of their brilliant Huh series. The idea behind the Huh books is simple but powerful: to elevate the conversation around curriculum design by listening closely to the people doing the work – subject leaders, senior leaders, teachers, and in this case, those working in alternative provision.

The term Huh comes from the Egyptian god of endlessness, creativity and regeneration – and that spirit runs through everything they write. The Huh books are deeply rooted in the real world of schools, but they always look to what’s possible, what’s better – what could be.

Together, John and Mary bring a huge depth of experience, a deep moral commitment to young people, and a keen eye for what actually works. This was a really enjoyable conversation – and I hope you get as much out of it as I did.

LINKS

Buy AP Huh - https://www.johncattbookshop.com/products/alternative-provision-huh

Follow John - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-tomsett-38ba74b3/

Follow Mary - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marymyatt/

Follow James - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mannion/

Outro track: ‘How it is and how it should be’ by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. Drop us a line at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Lewis Wedlock is an academic, mental health professional and masculinities educator from Bristol, England.

He has spent the last five years working with thousands of young men across the UK in secondary and higher education, engaging them in topics such as feminism, allyship, accountability, sexism, misogyny and VAWG.

He has designed and delivered several interventions for schools looking to transform their masculinity school cultures, and has worked with hundreds of educators to support them in the journey towards supporting and empowering young men within their school spaces.

His debut book “Masculinities in Schools” is due to be published by Sage in June.

LINKS

Lewis’s TEDx talk ‘The crisis of masculinity’ - https://www.ted.com/talks/lewis_wedlock_the_crisis_of_masculinity

Lewis’s book ‘Masculinities in school’ - https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/masculinities-in-schools/book291711

Lewis on bringing teachers on the journey towards anti-misogyny work in schools - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7313467595809046529/?originTrackingId=vFhKtaFiTryFt2v9NuWMIA%3D%3D

Lewis on safeguarding women and gender-fluid teachers in conversations relating to anti-misogyny work - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7312383310528143360/?originTrackingId=%2B%2FDoao0qRka%2BXELJ%2BeWPdw%3D%3D

Lewis on why we need to rethink showing Adolescence in schools - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7310952725276446720/?originTrackingId=qEDxB5LuRYqggVUxMjo%2F%2FA%3D%3D

Follow James - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mannion/

Outro track: ‘How it is and how it should be’ by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. Drop us a line at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

In this special episode, Dr James Mannion and The Real David Cameron take a look at the education systems in the four nations of the United Kingdom and ask: what can we learn from one another?

Graham Donaldson has been central to development in Scotland as chief inspector, advising government as well as leading on quality assurance. And remarkably he has also been central to the development of Curriculum for Wales in the role of chief adviser to the Welsh Government.

Tony Gallagher, from Queens University Belfast, has made a massive contribution to education in Northern Ireland and internationally. He is best known for his work on education in divided societies, a subject that, sadly, continues to be of vital importance.

Lena Carter is the headteacher of two schools in Scotland, Glassary and Tayvallich, in Argyll and Bute, a challenge that Lena embraces with real energy, passion and a tremendous commitment to meeting every pupil’s needs.

And Lucy Kirkham teaches geography at Bassaleg Comprehensive school near Newport in Wales. Lucy has a considerable track record in Environmental Education and has been a real driving force behind a series of conferences where young people can engage with the climate emergency on their terms.

LINKS

Follow Graham - https://www.linkedin.com/in/graham-donaldson-b8a9ba43

Follow Lena - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-carter-27748a39/

Follow Lucy - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucy-kirkham-9b8699279/

Follow Tony - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-gallagher-a845ab9/

Follow David - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-cameron-72061a15/

Follow James - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mannion/

This episode features an astonishing conversation by two remarkable educators, Hywel Roberts and Tim Taylor. Tim kindly stepped in as a guest host for this episode, to explore some of the big ideas that underpin Hywel’s excellent book, Botheredness: Stories, stance, pedagogy.

LINKS

Buy Botheredness - https://www.crownhouse.co.uk/botheredness

Follow Hywel - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hywel-roberts-67ba032b/

Follow Tim - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-taylor-50358439/

Outro track: ‘How it is and how it should be’ by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. Drop us a line at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

In this episode - our first rodeo as co-hosts - we are joined by Dr Debra Kidd, the author of A Curriculum of Hope, and by Tina Farr and Clare Whyles, the headteacher and deputy head of St. Ebbe’s Primary School in Oxford. Tina, Clare and the St Ebbe’s team have done some incredible work in recent years bringing a curriculum of hope to life for their learners, and spreading a little joy and belonging along the way.

LINKS

St. Ebbe’s - https://st-ebbes.oxon.sch.uk/

Follow Tina - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-farr-8667952bb/

Follow Clare - https://www.linkedin.com/in/clare-whyles-86845955/

Follow Debbie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-debra-kidd/

Buy A Curriculum of Hope - https://www.crownhouse.co.uk/a-curriculum-of-hope

Read the EPA report ‘Everybody Thriving’ - https://www.educationpa.org/publications

Outro track: ‘How it is and how it should be’ by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. Drop us a line at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Welcome to this episode in which we get to know our new cohost, The Real David Cameron!

David Cameron is an incredible educator, public speaker and human being whose work I have admired for many years now. He has been a teacher, a senior manager in schools and in local authorities, most recently as Director of Children’s Services for Stirling Council. He was President of the Association of Directors of Education Scotland and has been centrally involved in virtually every major development in Scottish education over the last 40 years. More recently he has been an independent speaker and consultant working across the UK and internationally.

LINKS

About David: https://therealdavidcameron.net/about

Buy Unfinished Business: https://amzn.to/49G5Uid

Buy Making Change Stick:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Change-Stick-Implementing-Improvement/dp/1398387487

Subscribe to James’s Substack newsletters (which alternate fortnightly)

Rethinking Education: https://drjamesmannion.substack.com

Making Change Stick: https://makingchangestick.substack.com

Repost about the book launch to be in with a change of winning prizes:

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/rethinkingjames.bsky.social/post/3lffz7ygg722y

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7283574500909088768/

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@drjamesmannion/post/DEqIRjlMHEv

X: https://x.com/RethinkingJames/status/1878060170397286715

Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

In this episode I’m speaking with Mick Waters and David Cameron, two of the editors of a wonderful new book Unfinished Business: The life and legacy of Sir Tim Brighouse - a tribute and a call to action. It’s a long title and rightly so - there’s a lot to say about Tim and about the ideas he pursued throughout his remarkable career.

Mick Waters is a former head teacher who works closely with teachers and leaders in schools, MATs and local authorities to support the development of teaching approaches and curriculum to ensure the best learning outcomes for children. For some years he was Director of Curriculum for England, based at the Qualification and Curriculum Authority (QCA), and before that held the post of Chief Education Officer for the City of Manchester. He is also invited to work at a policy level with government in different parts of the world.

David Cameron has been a teacher, a senior manager in schools and in local authorities, most recently as Director of Children’s Services for Stirling Council. He was President of the Association of Directors of Education Scotland and has been centrally involved in virtually every major development in Scottish education over the last 40 years. More recently he has been an independent speaker and consultant working across the UK and internationally.

LINKS

Buy Unfinished Business: https://amzn.to/49G5Uid

Buy ‘About Our Schools’ https://amzn.to/4ivsKgF

Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Clare Sealy currently works as the Head of Education Improvement for the states of Guernsey. Prior to this, she was the Headteacher of St Matthias Primary School in Tower Hamlets for 22 years. In 2018, the Times Education Supplement named her as one of the 10 most influential people in the world of education. In 2022, Clare was awarded an OBE for services to education.

Oracy – in case you’re unfamiliar with the term – was coined in 1965 to put spoken language firmly on the map, giving it equal status to written literacy and numeracy. Fast forward nearly 60 years, and we’re still having this conversation. Just last month, the Oracy Education Commission published a report suggesting that oracy should be recognised as the ‘fourth R’ – alongside reading, writing, and arithmetic. It’s a sentiment I wholeheartedly support.

These days, oracy is often thought of as having three dimensions: learning to talk, learning through talk, and learning about talk. If that idea intrigues you, the Oracy Cambridge website is full of thought-provoking blogs. Recently, the Oracy Cambridge team published a collective response to the Oracy Education Commission’s report, offering this updated definition: ‘Oracy is the ability to use the skills of speaking, listening, and non-verbal communication for a wide range of purposes.’

Oracy is very much in the spotlight at the moment, especially here in the UK. The Labour government has repeatedly signalled a renewed emphasis on spoken language and communication skills, and we’re already seeing this shift in schools and classrooms. I think it’s an incredibly welcome change – though, as with any policy, not everyone agrees. Clare and I get into some of these differing perspectives in this episode.

Clare and I also discuss a fascinating blog she wrote, titled ‘Talking floats on a sea of write’ – a clever inversion of James Britton’s famous statement that ‘writing floats on a sea of talk’. I found her ideas so compelling that I asked her to join me for this conversation – and, well, here we are!

LINKS

Clare’s article that prompted this discussion: https://hwrkmagazine.co.uk/talking-floats-on-a-sea-of-write/

Clare’s blog: https://primarytimery.com/

Clare on X: https://x.com/claresealy

Oracy Cambridge: https://oracycambridge.org/

Oracy Education COmmission report, We Need To Talk: https://oracyeducationcommission.co.uk/oec-report/

Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

In this episode, my guest is Sir Anthony Seldon – a figure who truly needs no introduction in education. However, for those less familiar with his remarkable contributions, here’s a bit of context. Anthony has held some of the most influential roles in education, most recently as headmaster of Epsom College. Before this, he served as vice-chancellor of the University of Buckingham and was headmaster at Wellington College and Brighton College – among many other roles.

Beyond his leadership in education, Anthony is a widely published author and renowned biographer, especially of political figures. For over 40 years, he has written extensively about British prime ministers, an 'impossible office,' as he titled one of his books. His most recent book was the number one Sunday Times bestseller, Truss at 10: How Not to Be Prime Minister - a hair raising read if ever there was one. Anthony has written on education as well, including his thought-provoking The Fourth Education Revolution: Will Artificial Intelligence Liberate or Infantilise Humanity?

I recorded this conversation at Epsom College last year, prior to the latest change in government. Fittingly, this was also the day Sir Keir Starmer – then Leader of the Opposition – announced Labour’s intention to prioritise oracy in education, a topic we explore in depth.

Our conversation is wide-ranging and rich with insights: we discuss oracy, why spoken language skills often flourish more in private schools than in state schools, the essential role of agency in education and life, and the transformative impact of meditation – a daily practice that both Anthony and I find invaluable.

LINKS

Anthony on X: https://x.com/anthonyseldon

Truss at 10: https://linktr.ee/trussat10

Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Welcome to the Rethinking Education podcast!

In this episode I spoke with Curtis James from Class Divide, campaign group which recently ran a successful campaign to change the school admissions code in Brighton and Hove.

But if anyone is looking at their local schools and thinking ‘School X has 15% of pupils eligible for free school meals, and School Y has over 60%. This doesn’t seem right. I wonder if there’s anything we can do to change that?” Well, there is - and in this episode, Curtis will explain how!

LINKS

Class Divide website: https://www.classdivide.co.uk/

Give us a (lovely!) review: https://www.tinyurl.com/raterepod

Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI

“Let’s Rethinking Education” jingle: Rocktopus

DON'T BE A STRANGER

The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.

SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod

Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod