Welcome to episode 64 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

This episode is the first to be recorded live in front of an audience, in the Still Water Meditation Hall of Plum Village, France, during a retreat, rather than in Thay’s Sitting Still hut. 

Together, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino explore the Buddhist concept of ripening, or the Fourth Dharma Seal of Plum Village: the understanding that the care, love, attention, and commitment we put into what’s important in life take time to ripen, and that we shouldn’t expect instant results.

Brother Phap Huu starts off by introducing the first Three Dharma Seals and why Thay created them, before digging deeper into the Fourth Dharma Seal, the main theme of this episode; the process of ripening; the life journey of the practice; and much more.

Jo brings examples of lifelong journeys of forgiveness, and explores trust versus control, dharma rain, and more.

And: how can we all apply this practice of ripening to our own lives?

The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu. 

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/ 

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources 

The Way Out Is In – Live recording information
https://wakeuplondon.org/thewayoutisin/

‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village 

Sutras: ‘Discourse on the Dharma Seal & the Three Doors of Liberation’
https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-the-dharma-seal-the-three-doors-of-liberation

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18 

Dharma Talks: ‘Three Doors of Liberation’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/three-doors-of-liberation-br-phap-khi-italian-retreat-2018-05-01/

‘The Doors of Liberation’
https://www.lionsroar.com/the-doors-of-liberation-may-2014/ 

Mahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

Dharma Talks: ‘Right View: Understanding the Roots of Our True Happiness’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/right-view-understanding-the-roots-of-our-true-happiness 

Old Path White Clouds
https://plumvillage.org/books/old-path-white-clouds-2

Fragrant Palm Leaves 
https://plumvillage.org/books/1998-neo-ve-cua-y-fragrant-palm-leaves

Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong

Sister Lang Nghiem
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiem 

Sister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem

Quotes

“When we practice meditation and mindfulness to come home to the here and now, we start to discover that the present moment is the only moment in which we can be alive. And the present moment embraces the past as well as creating the future.”

“If we don’t have darkness, the light won’t have a chance to appear.”

“It is impossible to physically go back to the past, but I can bring the past into the here and now, and heal it by being right here, right now. By this present moment, I am creating a new path.”

“The world is created by our mind.” 

“The insight of ripening allows us to understand that the path of practice is a wonderful journey, and that it takes time and space for things to mature, for things to transform, for things to heal. When we hear about ripening, we may think of a tree – say, an orange tree. It takes time for the seed to be planted. For the roots to deepen. For the tree and its leaves and flowers to grow. Even when the fruit appears, it takes time to ripen. And so our practice can be viewed as a journey of ripening.” 

“Each thing we say, each thing we think, each thing we do, ripples out. I love that image of a pond or a big lake where you throw in a stone and see the ripples spread in every direction. And even when you can’t really see them, they’re still there in a subtle way, stretching out further and further.” 

“The learning journey is endless.”

“If you know how to suffer, you suffer less.”

“If we take away the need for the outcome and are instead just present for people, then life can show up fully.”

“The Buddha said that the dharma is like fine-tuning an instrument for our path. If we are too intense, too rigid, too extreme, we won’t go the distance. The string might snap because there’s too much effort, there’s too much intensity. But if we’re too lazy, and are just daydreaming about what can be, then the string is loose and doesn’t play the the sound that’s needed.”