Rock Solid Relationships

Cumpulsive thinking is something we are all prone to--

whether it is obsessing about our bodies.

Or a conversation we had with someone at book club.

Or choices our kids are making.

Learn this week WHY compulsive thinking is so common (you're normal!) and how to choose a different way if you want to.

You can work with Sara one/one by signing up for a strategy session here.

Find sara @sarapaynecoaching on instagram

We are conditioned to grow and change from lack. "I hate my body so I should lose weight."

"I really don't manage my time well--I should read a self help book on time management."

"I never finish anything I start."

2024 calls for growth from WHOLENESS. This episode will teach you how to do that.

You can work with Sara one/one in 2024 by signing up for a strategy session here.

Find sara @sarapaynecoaching on instagram

How do you trust yourself when you believe you've let yourself down in the past? Learn how to tap into your intuition and develop a deep self trust.

Find sara @sarapaynecoaching on instagram

How do you trust in a higher power, whether it's God or the universe, if you feel you've been let down so many times? We dive into this topic in this week's episode.

instagram: @sarapaynecoaching

want to work with sara? click here to set up a consultation

Want to check out the miracle bracelets that Sara mentioned? Here's the link to a $10 discount.

Speaker A: This week, I interview my friend and colleague Colette hall, who is also a life coach, about how to change a belief. She is a former school teacher, and I tell you this because she has a way of distilling information and making it super simple and super digestible, even complex things, which is why I think you're really going to enjoy this episode and the process that she teaches us in this episode about how to change a belief you have that you don't want to have anymore. Ready to create rock solid relationships with the people that matter most to you. You are in the right place. My name is Sarah Payne, and I'm a master certified relationships coach. And each week I teach you how to create the connection and love that you desire because you know that the quality of your life is directly related to the quality of your relationships. I'm so glad you're here. Hello, Colette.

Speaker B: Hello.

Speaker A: Welcome to the Rock Solid Relationships podcast. I'm so glad to have you on again. This is not our first rodeo. We've talked before, so I'm excited to have my listeners get to know you a little bit more. Will you tell them what you do? Yes.

Speaker B: I am a life coach also, just like you. And I help high achieving people find more balance.

Speaker A: Nice. I love it. And you're kind of like. I mean, my description of you is you're like the belief queen.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: You know how to change your own limiting beliefs and help your clients do the same. And so that's what I want to talk to you about today.

Speaker B: That is very true. But I have to say that I learned it from my coach as well. So any of you out there who imagine that this is something you've never heard of before or something that you've never tried before, I was like 50 years old before I learned these principles that we're going to talk about today and started practicing them in my life, and it has changed my life completely. And so don't worry, it's not too late, any of that. Or if you have never even considered accomplishing something the way that we're going to talk about accomplishing things, it's okay. It'S okay. Everybody starts at a new spot. Just give it a chance. That's what I want to say from the get go, is just give this a chance. I was taught it and put it to work and to practice, and you can, too.

Speaker A: You can, too. I love that. I love that. And age doesn't matter. And one thing that coming up for me as you were talking is before Colette learned this work she led a very full, beautiful life. And it's just enhanced it. You don't have to be on the precipice of breakdown in order to apply this work. You can be, and it's very helpful. But not everybody has a heroine's journey story where they were, like, on death's door or something like that, right? In order to have this work be powerful. Tell me anything about that.

Speaker B: 100%. I mean, I would consider my life. Two of my most effective strategies to living life was gratitude and positivity, optimism. And my husband and I used those strategies to overcome very difficult challenges and circumstances. And so I for sure felt like I was a person that had the tools to create the kind of life that I wanted. And this is just really up leveled to. It's like, up leveled up, leveled up, leveled. That's what has happened with it. So, yes, you're exactly right.

Speaker A: I love it. So as we talk about beliefs and believing new things, tell us, what's the first step to believing something new?

Speaker B: Okay, so I just remember, I'm going to reflect back in my head here to a time that you and I were actually at a business mastermind together. And we were sharing a room that day or that whole trip. And I remember saying something to you about a limiting belief, and I said, like, oh, I'm so glad that I have figured out this limiting belief, because I know what to do with it. And I just remember you standing there looking at me like I was crazy. Like, what just happened in this conversation? What just happened in this conversation? Because the first step is we have to recognize what we are already believing. We have to be honest with what we're already thinking about and everything that comes after that, I trust my ability to do something with it. But if I don't recognize it, it's like a non starter. That was what was funny about being there in that conversation. Because oftentimes we think about limiting beliefs or thoughts that aren't very useful to us, or times when we have the inner critic or where we are mean to ourselves, or we just say things like they are facts in the world, when really they are limiting beliefs. And we think that there's not much that we can do about it. And so if there's anything that your listeners learn today, I would say you can do something about all of them. Any thought that you have, you can do something about it. You can work to change it or even shift it. You can work to let it go. And so that's what I think was funny about that conversation, is because we normally don't look at limiting beliefs as something exciting.

Speaker A: Right. It's almost like we hide them underneath the bed because we don't want to look at them because we think.

Speaker B: We'Re.

Speaker A: Taught so much about positive affirmations and things like that, that it's like we make ourselves wrong for even having them.

Speaker B: Yeah. Having the limiting belief because we don't trust ourselves that we can actually do something about them.

Speaker A: Yes. Oh, that's so key, trusting yourself that you can do something about them.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so I was super excited. Standing there in the hotel room. I was like, yes, I found a limiting belief. This is amazing. I can't wait to work on it. And that's the part I think that you were confused by. Maybe you can speak to that, of how that was such a different thing.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't even remember what the belief was, but I think I was awestruck that you were so excited to find it. It was like a treasure to you. Oh, now I know what's been holding me back. And I was like, I can just think about, like, I'm thinking about limiting beliefs I have about myself and my success. I can just think about them like treasures that I can just. Because now I can uncover it and now I know what to do with it. That was what was going on for mE.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's such a key point because it really is like a treasure to me. Like, oh, my gosh, this is the thing. This is going to change everything. Account. Work on it.

Speaker A: You say that all the time. I just want my listeners to know this is going to change everything. And I actually love that I've picked up up on that. I've adopted that in my own life. I'll never be the same again. This is going to change everything. It's like such an exciting way to live.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it happens all the time. So it's not like a one time thing where, oh, my gosh, changing this belief is going to change everything, and then I'm never going to change everything again. Don't worry. Next week I'm going to change everything again. Right.

Speaker A: I love it. Okay, so let's say I uncover a limiting belief I have. Like, maybe.

Speaker B: I'm going to give you one. Oh, good. Perfect example. Is that all right? Yes. I'm going to give you three examples, but I'm going to give you one today that I think you might be a little surprised that I speak. Okay, so let me just give the example of recently I started looking at how I view myself as maybe like, my fashion sense. And I recognize instead of continuously saying, which I've been doing for a long time. So I did not realize this was a limiting belief until just this week. This is, like, off the press. And I realized that I was thinking, like, oh, I'm not very stylish. Fashion is really hard for me. I don't really know what to wear, what shoes go with that. This is difficult for me. Those were the kinds of thoughts that I was having. And I realized finally this week, I'm not even sure how I realized it, but all of a sudden, I clued in to the idea that this is a limiting belief. It does not have to be true. Like, I'm thinking it's true. I'm thinking it's a fact, but it does not have to be true. And so I started, first of all, I recognize it. So that's step one. We're going to notice whatever the belief is that is holding us back. That's just an idea that I am thinking that is holding me back from being who I want to be. It's a small example. Right.

Speaker A: For a second, because I think it's good to note that when you believe that, then you find all of these examples in your past, how you've been, like, not fashionable, and so and so is more fashionable than you, and you don't fit in in these situations. Right. So you can pull up all of these beliefs from your past, and then not just that, but then you keep recreating that, because if you're believing I'm not fashionable, then when you go into a store or you're looking at an online catalog, you're like, well, so and so could pull that off, but I.

Speaker B: Never could for sure. That is exactly my life. And the train of thought that I have been having for quite a while now. We just have to remember that whatever we are thinking, whatever we are saying is what we are creating.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's why it's so important to pay attention to the stuff that we don't want to be creating.

Speaker A: Will you say that one more time? Whatever we are saying and whatever we're.

Speaker B: Thinking about is what we are creating. And so rather than just staying stuck in this idea, some past idea of what we think, the truth is, if we do not want to keep creating that we have to say something different. We have to think something different.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. And so in that case, here I am, like, thinking I'm unfashionable, right? Or not stylish. In that moment, I realized, oh, my gosh, that is a limiting belief that I have. What if I believed that I was actually stylish? And so I want you to know, all of you listening. When I thought that, it wasn't like, oh, yeah, that's easy. I'm just going to start believing that. I'm just going to start saying that because that's so easy to believe. It actually felt very uncomfortable. It felt very untrue. And that is usually a sign for me that I'm on the right track.

Speaker A: That's so good.

Speaker B: Yes. If I feel like, ooh, that's uncomfortable or feels impossible, then it's like, oh, okay. That's what I want to work on.

Speaker A: Okay, so you identify it.

Speaker B: Identify. I recognize it as something that I am thinking that is limiting me.

Speaker A: All right.

Speaker B: So then I'm going to decide if I want to change it in some way, and that could be letting it go or it could be shifting it to a new belief. Either one works. Okay. So once I decide if I want to do something with it, which in this case I decided I wanted to, I wanted to believe that I was effortlessly stylish.

Speaker A: I love it.

Speaker B: Not just stylish, but effortlessly stylish because I definitely don't want to spend a lot of time on my style, but I can be effortlessly stylish. So then what I did is I have a little four part step to this where I speak it, hear it, see it, think it. So I give myself a million chances to believe it.

Speaker A: Oh, so good. Okay, walk us through.

Speaker B: All right, so what that looked like is here I am speaking it out loud to you. This is part of my strategy I'm.

Speaker A: Doing, which, by the way, can I just make a side note? Everybody needs a friend like that, that they can talk to about things that be like, oh, yeah, I know. I can see that you're thinking that, or it makes sense that you would think that, and I don't believe that about you. You can think something different.

Speaker B: Yes. So good. Yeah. That support. Because sometimes we wonder, like, can I really think something different? Can I really something different about? Okay. So I start writing about it. I say it out loud as often as possible. I talk it through with my coach. I listen to things that support what my new belief is, or if I'm listening to a podcast, then I start to listen through the lens of I believe that I'm effortlessly stylish, and I try to give myself just so many chances to believe that I'm effortlessly stylish. And I tell myself, so in my case right now, one of the things I do is I write reminders on my phone and I have them pop up on my phone every hour or every day. If I am working on something and I look at the thing that pops up. So in this case it would be I am effortlessly stylish, would pop up as a reminder on my phone and instead of just dismissing it or just reading it and moving on, I actually try to feel what it feels like in my body.

Speaker A: So you pause until you actually do that. Do you think of someone that you believe is effortlessly stylish or are you like, I wonder how she feels when she looks in the mirror?

Speaker B: That could be one way. That's not really how I do it. I usually just consider the possibility.

Speaker A: Okay, tell my listeners what that means. I think they're like, what?

Speaker B: I ask myself a question, it's usually the same question because it works every time. And that is what if I really am effortlessly stylish? What would that feel like? What would that be like? What if I could be effortlessly stylish and then my mind will go to like, but you're not. Remember, there's so many ways to show you that you're not. I know, but what if I could be? So I'm just giving the possibility a chance.

Speaker A: I like the way, I just want to point out, I like the way you spoke to your negative voice. You weren't like, shut up, idiot. Stop being so mean to me. You were just like, I know, I heard you, but what if I could be?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. That's the whole point. Like our minds are used to thinking a certain way, right? And so rather than getting mad at your mind for thinking the way that it has been thinking for a long time or whatever, then it's like, it's okay, it's okay. We're just doing something different now. Yeah.

Speaker A: It's like so gentle.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm just going to consider that maybe I could be effortlessly stylish, right? So I give myself all these chances to speak to myself, to hear it, to see it. So I wrote it down in a document that I read to myself every morning and every night. It became part of this document of the beliefs that I am creating for myself that I read every morning and night. So it says in there I am effortlessly stylish and I tell myself that every single morning and every single night. And then when I get ready in the morning, now I'm like, oh yeah, remember I'm thinking that I'm effortlessly stylish. So maybe I have like a postit note in my closet that says, you are effortlessly stylish or I am effortlessly stylish. And then as I'm getting ready, it's like, oh, I pick great clothes from my closet because I'm effortlessly stylish. So I just give myself a million chances to believe it.

Speaker A: I love it.

Speaker B: So I'm in the middle of that one.

Speaker A: Okay, so you recognize the limiting belief, and then you decide what you want to believe instead. And sometimes that means just letting go of the limiting belief. But usually, do you find it's easier when you have something to replace it with?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think so.

Speaker A: And then you speak it, you write about it, you find support for it.

Speaker B: Speak it, hear it, see it, think.

Speaker A: It, speak it, hear it, see it.

Speaker B: I just give myself a million chances to believe it.

Speaker A: How do you know when you truly believe it? What does that look like when you're like, oh, I'm moving on to something else?

Speaker B: Usually if it's a reminder that's coming up on my phone, I can tell a difference. When I see the reminder, it's like, oh, wait, I already believe that. I can feel it in my body. There's no cringiness to it. There's no resistance, there's no friction that I up against, like, well, I don't know. I'm not quite sure. It's like, oh, wait, I already believe that. And so that's one way. And there's another belief that I recently was changing or at least adopting. It wasn't something that I was something I learned about in a book called Awe. And I just really loved this idea of seeking awe as an emotion. And so this wasn't, I'm going to let go of this other belief. I just want to believe that I see awe. And so I made a postit note that said, I seek awe. I put it in my document that I read every morning and night, and then I just looked for opportunities to feel awe, the emotion of awe. And I told myself, wow, this is awe every time I felt it. So I just gave myself chances to believe it. And now I know that I see awe.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: All the time. It's just something I do now. Yeah. It didn't take very long for me to figure out that one. Yeah.

Speaker A: With that one, it sounds like it was almost just like recognizing, like, being conscientious about it.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: So good.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Did you say you have one more example?

Speaker B: Okay, I have one more example, and this is going to be so good for your listeners. No, I'm not happy to talk about this, but I'm willing.

Speaker A: Awesome. Walk us through it. Okay.

Speaker B: So I'm a widow of four and a half years, and I have been telling myself for a very long time the truth, that I do like being independent and that I don't necessarily want my 14 year old son to have to navigate different people in his life and things like that. And so I've been kind of a hard no when it comes to dating or getting in a relationship or whatever. And so I just recently realized that some of this is a limiting belief, and it feels really true. So that's what's going to happen. When you bump up against limiting beliefs, they often feel very true. Like, yeah, I do like my independence, and, yeah, I don't want.

Speaker A: It would be really hard for my son to have to navigate something, family.

Speaker B: Or something like that. And I really don't want anybody in my business, like all kinds of things that I've been telling myself about this, it feels very true. But what I realized is that I wasn't considering the idea that possibly I could have exactly what I wanted in a relationship, including independence, including my son being completely safe and secure, even if someone else is around, not giving that idea a chance at all. And so that is a different kind of limiting belief, I think, where we just aren't open to the possibility of what could be.

Speaker A: Why do you think we do that? Sometimes?

Speaker B: Lots of times it doesn't seem logical. I think in my case, I truly do not see, or did not see that it was kind of an all or nothing. Like, if I am in a relationship, then it's going to look like this and I'm going to not have my freedom and things are going to happen. And I didn't realize that there was a possibility of something else. So it's kind of a black and white thinking and all or nothing thinking. We don't know that. There are probably a million options.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And so that's why having a coach is so awesome, because you can help your clients see all of the other options that could be believed. So that happened with my coach. I actually brought this up with my coach, and she said a lot of things about, like, what if a relationship could be better than I even imagined? I was like, I don't know. I don't even know how that could be possible. And so it was at that moment that I realized, okay, I have a limiting belief about this. What would happen if I changed my belief to see that a relationship could be even better than I imagined? What if I gave that belief a.

Speaker A: Chance and then what came up? When you first thought that? Did you bump up against, like, no. What did your brain say to you when you said that?

Speaker B: It was like, no, that's not an option. But then I just started giving it a chance to maybe be true. Like, what if. I don't know if it's true, but what if.

Speaker A: What if it true, gentle way to do it. Just what if. We're not saying it has to be, but what if? Because it takes courage, not just with this belief, I'm guessing with this belief, it takes courage to believe that that's a possibility. But also, I'm thinking of my clients who are like, my ship has sailed, but what if it hasn't? It seems like then that opens them up to like, well, okay, maybe it hasn't sailed, but maybe I'll fail when I try to go get on it.

Speaker B: All of the above? Yes. I have been experiencing all of that in real time.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it takes courage and vulnerability to be open to looking at things a new way.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. But I also know that the other side, like being on the other side of removing, limiting beliefs or adopting a new belief that is more expansive is always better.

Speaker A: Will you talk more about that?

Speaker B: Yeah. It feels very painful to be vulnerable to maybe something new. It can feel painful. It can feel painful to keep having the same old thought over and over and over again. And it's like, oh, my gosh, I just am trying to believe something new that can feel painful and difficult, but it is always better on the other side of it. Always better. And so it is worth it. So then what happened with this date? Thing is I started considering, like, okay, well, what if there could be some amazing human out there that I get to have my independence with?

Speaker A: That doesn't come along well with my son.

Speaker B: With my son. Like, all this list, this list of things that I wanted to be creating, like, what if that was possible? And so I've just been giving it a chance. And I put a whole paragraph in my personal document that I read in the morning and at night about this. And I'll be honest, when I did it, I felt sick to my stomach.

Speaker A: I'm so glad that you mentioned that. You all don't feel aligned when you're trying to change beliefs at the beginning.

Speaker B: Exactly. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm going to throw up. And you can see me right now. I feel that exact same emotion still. I'm cringing right now. My shoulders are, like, sunk in. This is how I'm feeling. About this belief still. And yet I know that on the other side of it, life is better if I just feel open to it. I don't know if I want to get remarried or anything like that. None of that is what I'm working on here. It's just the idea that I am open to a relationship being better than I imagine.

Speaker A: Yes. Oh, that's so.

Speaker B: Yeah. So then I start thinking about it. I start thinking about it. I tell Coleman about it. My son Coleman, about this idea. Talk to my coach about it. I've talked to you about it. I put it out there.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And I still don't totally believe that a relationship could be better than I imagine, but I'm willing to think that it's possible.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That's where I am in this belief.

Speaker A: Well, and I just want listeners to know, as you go through this and then you talk about it more, you're going to see it more, you're going to notice people who have the kind of relationship that you're interested in. It's like your mind will just be expanded to see it in a different way, where it was always there, but now you're bringing it into.

Speaker B: Your awareness.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And that actually has already started happening. I was really surprised at how quickly that started happening when I have, my brother and sister in law were just telling me the other day, oh, hey, we have this neighbor who got remarried, and they both live in their separate houses with their families. And I was like, what? People do that? So I did not know that there was an option to do that. Whether or not I would do that, I don't know. But what it does is it opens me up to the idea that there are a lot of options instead of the one that I was thinking, which was, I don't want to lose my independence, therefore I will not be in a relationship.

Speaker A: Yes. Because relationships make you lose your independence. Right.

Speaker B: That was the only thing that I believed was true. And so now I'm open to the idea, like, oh, what if there are so many ways that I could move forward with my life? What if there's so many options? And then I start being open to it and I start seeing, oh, there's this option and this option and this option and this option, and I'm not necessarily going to take all those options, but the fact that I know there's options gives me peace to be able to pick one. If I'm ready. When I'm ready.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Or create my own option.

Speaker A: Right. Oh, that's so good. I love it. Okay, so will you just go through the steps one more time? And I want everybody listening to be thinking about something you don't want to believe anymore that you've discovered through listening to this podcast that you believe. Go ahead.

Speaker B: Okay, so first you are going to notice a limiting belief. You're just going to notice a limiting belief. It might feel completely true, but you just don't really want to believe it anymore, or it's not getting you where you want to go. By believing it, you're going to notice it, identify it, right. Recognize it, and then you want to decide what to do with it. Do I want to do something with this belief or do I want to keep it? If you decide that you want to do something with it because it's not really getting you where you want to go, then you are going to give yourself a million chances to believe it. And that's where we speak it, hear it, see it, think it with. I feel like the magic question is to ask ourselves, yeah, I know it's not true, but what if it could be? Just consider the possibility that it could be true. And then you start to see the needle move. You start to see yourself shift in the belief. Sometimes it doesn't take hardly any time at all. Sometimes it's a little more stubborn to shift it, but I have all the power. And so that's why that day in the hotel room when I was like, yes, I just discovered another limiting belief. I was excited because it is treasure to me, because I know it's okay. I just recognized it. That's step one. I know I want to do something with it. I want to change it somehow. That's step two. All right, I'm going to speak it.

Speaker A: Here, see it, think it.

Speaker B: And so that is the best way. I think instead of worrying that we have a limiting belief, like it's a problem that we have this natural thing called limiting beliefs. Everybody has them. It's not a problem. It's just like what you said, it's a treasure. It really is like finding a treasure and your life will never be the same again.

Speaker A: So good. That is so good. Okay. How can my listeners find you?

Speaker B: Sure. I'm on Instagram. My name, Colette Hall. Colette with a K or my website. We also have a book. So when my husband passed away, he was working on a book. He was a motivational speaker. And I put the book together. I finished it and put my stories in there, too. So you can get that on Amazon. It's called Messy Victories, and it is by Jason and Colette Hall. And I think that was really good.

Speaker A: I love it.

Speaker B: I'll enjoy that. But see, I learned, just so you know, when you read that book. The cool part is I did not know anything about this belief work when I wrote that book. And so it's amazing what can happen even after we already live a full life and have some great strategies and we manage things really well in our lives. We still can grow, we still can level up, we still can create new things. It's amazing.

Speaker A: I love it. Thanks for being here, Colette.

Speaker B: So fun. Thank you.

You know, I often hear my clients say things like, I really regret doing this or that, or, I don't want to do that because I might regret it. I think it's very where we underestimate just how much we use the emotion of regret to make decisions or not make decisions. And so that is what we're going to talk, talk about today on the podcast. Ready to create rock solid relationships with the people that matter most to you. You are in the right place. My name is Sarah Payne, and I'm a master certified relationships coach. And each week, I teach you how to create the connection and love that you desire because you know that the quality of your life is directly related to the quality of your relationships. I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to the podcast, my wonderful listeners. I think today's episode you're going to find really resonating with you because I see it so often with my clients, and I catch it in my own brain. And so, while I've done a podcast on regret, I haven't done a podcast specifically on how we often use regret as a way to make decisions or as a way to motivate ourselves and why that might not be the best motivator for you. So, I'm so glad you're here. Sit tight, and I think you're going to really find this episode to be useful. So, like I said before, I help my clients make decisions all the time. It's basically, like one of my biggest jobs. I help them make decisions that feel aligned to them. And it's kind of a rare thing to have someone in your life who will help you make a decision but has no opinion or bias on what you should or shouldn't do. That is one of my main jobs as a coach. And, like, your best friend might be a great listener, but they have an opinion on what you should do with your marriage. Or your mom. She might love you unconditionally, but she has an opinion on how you should educate your children. And so just having an outside perspective that has no opinion and no bias is, like, such a gift. It's one of the things that I love most about being a client when I get coached, and I Love giving that to my clients as well, and to just help them get clarity on what they want to do, what feels like most aligned with their values and their desires. So whether it's a big decision or a small decisions, our brains usually have patterns in how we make them. And one of the biggest patterns I see is how much my clients allow regret from the past to affect their decisions about the future. I mean, it kind of makes sense, right? It's kind of logical. But I found it to be not useful and actually kind of poisonous for their life. And this is why. Because my clients are believing that the decision that they made was either right or wrong from the past. And if they have regret, then they're believing it was the wrong decision and that. That making the right one is going to help them not feel regret. But like I teach you all every week on the podcast, our feelings don't come from decisions that we make. They come from our thoughts about those decisions. And I see my clients spin and spin and not decide and not decide what they want to do until they know that they're making the right decision, and then, therefore, they won't regret it. But if we think of regret as an emotion, which I do, I think regret, like feeling regretful is an emotion. It comes from what we're thinking about what we have done in the past. Thoughts like, I never should have done, that I made a huge mistake, or I hurt people. So I'm thinking about this move that my family made to Colorado. And it would be very easy, when I see my children struggling with, normal child struggles, to think, this wouldn't have happened if we hadn't moved, and therefore, we never should have moved. Now, I might be right that my kids might not be struggling with friendships or might have more kids their age that they feel close to. If we hadn't moved from the place that we lived in Montana for over five years. That might actually be true. But the part that I can never really know is true or not is. And they shouldn't be struggling. They shouldn't be going through this, because the reality is they are. And me thinking that they shouldn't just puts me in a place of regret and guilt and doesn't allow me to be the kind of parent that I want to be, to be the kind of mom that I want to be, because I know from so much experience that when I am motivated by guilt, I am not the best version of myself or in an effort to avoid guilt or regret. So instead of believing I never should have done that, or I made a huge mistake, sometimes my clients, when I offer this to them, that they don't have to think about their decision that way, no matter what it was, that then they go, so I'm just not supposed to have any values or morals or think that I've ever made any wrong decision. And I always, like the human brain, loves to do this loves to think in terms of absolutes and of, like, black and white. But those aren't our only two options. Our only two options aren't, I never should have done this or I did nothing wrong. Instead, we can all learn from our choices and we can even decide. I wouldn't make that particular one again. But we don't have to layer on the regret. The best way I know how to do this is to remind myself I did the best I could with what I knew, and now I know better. I learned that from Maya Angelou. I love that when my brain wants to go to regret. This never should have happened. I never should have done this. Oh, but remember, Sarah, you did the best you could with what you knew, and now you know better. Letting go of regret means that you can embrace self trust. We're going to be talking more about self trust in the future because I think it's so, so important. So stay tuned for more episodes like that. You're going to want to follow this podcast so you don't miss those episodes. But you can tap into your inner knowing or the spirit, if that's how you identify it, or your gut, however you describe it, it's one of the best gifts that you can possibly give yourself. And you shut that down when you tell yourself, I never should have done that. I made a huge mistake. I hurt people. Regret shuts down your inner knowing. It shuts down your self trust. And when we can move regret out of the way, then we can weigh the pros and cons, tap into our inner knowing, the spirit, our intuition, ask advice from trusted family and friends, and then move forward. Indecision is the most exhausting place to be. And my clients who hold on to regret, they have the most trouble making decisions. And not making a decision is a decision that just keeps you stuck in the mud. Like, I just had a visualization of someone actually stuck in the mud. And they're trying and trying and trying so hard, but they're not moving forward. Or like, a treadmill is the same example, right? It's like exhausting ourselves but not moving forward. And then you can decide before you ever make a decision that you're going to love it. Did you know that? You really can decide that. Let me give you a couple of examples. When we moved to Montana, I flew out to Montana by myself. We had children who were very young at the time. Ryan stayed home with them. I met my mom and my mother in law and my sister, and we had like a weekend. And I just decided we are going to find a house this. So Ryan is going to not see the house before we buy it. We'll Facetime him, but we're for sure going to find a home this weekend. And we looked at a bunch and there was one that kind of stood out and I really liked it. And I just decided, I'm going to love this house. I love it. I love this house. And so we went ahead and bought it. And were there things that I didn't like about the house? Absolutely. Were there things I didn't think about before we bought the house that I would think about in the future? Definitely one of the things about our house that I didn't really consider because our house in Maine, where we lived previously, had so much natural light. I just didn't think about that as something I wanted because I already had it. And our house in Montana did not have a ton of natural light. And in the winter, especially, like this time of year when it gets dark really early, it was dark. And so we added lamps and things and it worked out fine. But I didn't tell myself, we never should have bought this house. I'm such a dummy that I didn't think about natural light more. I made a huge mistake. No, I just told myself, oh, next time we buy a house, I'm going to make sure that I love the lighting. And you know what? Our house in Colorado, we added so much extra light before we moved in. We had an electrician come and we just made sure that there was tons of light. I made sure that the office where I spend a lot of my time during the day had a lot of natural light. And it does as so much natural light, I'm, like, looking out my window right now that I don't even need to turn on the light most of the time if I don't want to. And so I learned from that. I learned that, oh, natural light and a well at home is really important to me. And so in the future, I'll make sure that that happens. But I didn't do that from a place of I made a huge mistake before. That would have been so much harder for me and Ryan to decide on another house to purchase. So that's just one example. Another example is that sometimes we use regret as a way to motivate us to do something. And I don't think that's the best motivation either. I see this a lot with moms, like moms of young kids. Well, you know, one day they're going to be all grown up and you're going to miss this. It's like this sneaky way that our brains, and frankly, like lots of women whose children are out of the house, who talk to me in the grocery store, their way of saying, you're going to regret it if you don't just embrace every moment. But when I think about that, when I think I need to spend all the time I can with my kids because I don't want to regret it, then it's really easy for me to not be in the moment because all I'm trying to do is avoid regret and also for resentment for my children to sneak in. And I don't want to do that. That's not the kind of relationship that I want to have with them. And so we can make decisions and not have regret be like the driving force. My parents are going to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary next month. And so my siblings, one of my sisters was like, we need to go on a trip. We should all go on a trip. Just the adults and mom and dad, like spouses, children. When I say children, like my family of origin, right? So my brother and sisters and our spouses, and then my parents. And so one of my sisters in particular, she worked out the dates and where we would go, and she's like, let's go on a trip to Mexico. So some of my siblings are going to be able to come and some aren't. But I was like, considering, okay, are we going to, like, we're in a position where we can go and we've always wanted to do something like this. Are we going to go? And then I watched regret sink in and I was like, well, this might be the last trip of this kind that we get to do. Because my parents, they're in their mid seventy s and they might live for 20 more years and they might not. They're in great health, by the way. But I watched like, well, I have to do this because I'll regret it if I don't. And I didn't like that reason. I don't want to go on this trip because I feel like I'll regret it if I don't go. I don't like that motivation at all. I think it's, again, really easy for resentment to creep in that way or for me to just be living from this place of trying to avoid a negative emotion. And so instead I was like, okay, well, what if I took regret off the table? This is how I made this decision. I took regret off the table and I just thought, okay, do I want to do this? And I thought about all of the reasons why I would want to go. I imagined myself having a great time with my siblings, my parents, and with Ryan. And then I also thought about reasons why we wouldn't want to go. It's not the best timing with a lot of things, and it's not convenient to get to Mexico from where we live. And there were some other things that I wanted to weigh. The fact, do we want to be spending this money on a couple's trip when we could go with our whole family? And my oldest kids are getting older, and we'll only be in the house for probably a couple more years. So I wanted to weigh both of those. And then from that space, I could make a decision that I wanted to make that I liked, that was free from regret. It was just like I thought, yes, I want to have this experience with my family. I want to have this experience with Ryan. I want to have this experience with my parents and my siblings. That would be so fun. And I know making this decision from that place, I'm going to have a completely different experience than if I had made the decision from. Well, they might not be around, and I don't want to regret having. Not having spent more time with them. I've given you the example of buying a house, and I've given you the example of whether or not to go on a certain vacation. But this way of making decisions, regret free and not being motivated by regret can be with, quote, unquote, bigger decisions, too. Decisions like, should I stay married or not? Like, well, I don't want to regret having gotten a divorce. You get to decide how you think about your decisions before you even make them. And then you can live a life that is free from regret. So you can decide. You can look at the reasons why you would want to stay married and the reasons why you would want to get divorced. And you can make a list, and then you can cross out any of the things on that list that are based in regret or fear of how you think you'll feel in the future based on your decision. And then you can just make the decision that feels most aligned with who you want to be, that feels like the version of yourself that is confident and not making decisions based on fear and regret. So whether it is whether or not to go on a vacation or whether or not to stay married, you can make those decisions and be free from regret. And the best way, like I said before, I'll reiterate this, is I did the best I could with what I knew, and now I know better. Living a life free of regret doesn't mean you don't make changes. It doesn't mean you don't say things like, I learned from that, and I wouldn't do that again. Just like I learned from how much I value a well lit home, and I wouldn't buy a house that isn't well lit again. And I don't have to regret that decision that I made. If you need help, if you find that you live from regret, a, please, please don't hesitate to sign up for a consultation call. There's a link in my bio on Instagram. I think I call it a strategy session. And I can help you with that. That is my jam. Because life is too short to be making decisions from regret. Have a great week.

Well, I am very excited to talk to you today about purposeful belief and how you can actually, like, decide what you want to believe, even if nobody else believes it. And you can choose to let go of beliefs even if, like, your family has believed them for generations and generations and generations. We're going to talk all about that today, and it's going to be so fun. Close. Ready to create rock solid relationships with the people that matter most to you? You are in the right place. My name is Sarah Payne, and I'm a master certified relationships coach. And each week I teach you how to create the connection and love that you desire because you know that the quality of your life is directly related to the quality of your relationships. I'm so glad you're here. Are you ready to talk about purposeful beliefs? I am, for sure. Now, I want to do a little caveat that we are also going to talk about beliefs that a lot of us were given by our parents when we were really little. And we didn't really have know that. We didn't have to believe that. And this is not an episode about in any way, shape or form about shaming anyone's parents. It's just about recognizing that the things that you were taught don't have to be things that you continue to believe. And how even though a lot of us formed some of our, like you maybe call them core beliefs when we were too young enough to know any different, we're forming beliefs all the time. All the time. And so the beautiful thing about our brains is that they're neuroplastic and they can change and develop, and that at any given time, we as adults, we can choose to believe something different. So tell me if any of these sound familiar. Were you taught any of these? I was taught some of these by very loving parents. Money doesn't grow on trees. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Some people are good and some people are bad. Watch out for the bad guys. And of course, all these weren't taught by my parents. I learned that in a Marvel movie. Right. Superheroes. It's important to be available to my kids whenever they need me. I think I learned that as a young mother, and I just latched onto it like, oh, good, moms are always available to their kids whenever another one that I hear with my clients is, you'll struggle with that for the rest of your life. I remember coaching a client who was diagnosed with an eating disorder when she was like, a teenager, and she was now in her forty s, and she just didn't know that she could decide that. Oh, maybe I don't have to make this a struggle for my entire life. Change is hard, and most people never do it. It's another belief. Moms always put themselves last. Like, you know, as moms, we just don't consider what we want. What is that saying? I brought it up here before. I think that it's like the mom, when there were six of us and five slices of pie, promptly declared that she didn't like pie. I remember hearing that and being like, oh, noted. Moms are so sacrificial, and I hate that. Now I don't believe that at all. I'm like, how about we just cut the pie slices in half so that there's more and everybody can have one, including mom. This is one that I heard when my kids were little. Well, little person, little problems. Big people, big problems. Just you wait until they're teenagers. Teenagers are so hard. Another one I heard it wasn't, like, explicitly said this way, but it's like how my brain picked it up was rich people, they had to be dishonest in some way to get where they are. But also, you want to be rich, but you don't want to be too rich. You don't want to be a bad rich person. You want to be a good rich person. And poor people are more humble and better in the eyes of God, and they're also not that as good as you, and so you don't want to be poor. Like, it was such mixed messages about money. Right? I remember hearing when I was pregnant with my first. Like, some babies just take years to learn how to sleep through the night. And a mom is only as happy as her saddest child. I remember hearing that for the first time. I still remember where I was and who told it to me. And I remember thinking, oh, that's how it is. And now I think that is just hogwash. Moms are as happy as they choose to be, whether they're, like, we can separate ourselves from our children and their happiness and still be loving mothers. I would argue that it's the most loving thing we can do, and the biggest, best gift we can give our children is our own happiness. And it's beautiful because that's the gift we can give ourselves, too, right? So I no longer believe that some babies take years to learn to sleep through the night. Like, I did a lot of research and I read a lot of things, and I trained my babies to sleep through the night from the time they were just weeks old. Things like that really are possible, even if others don't believe it, right? Here are some other things that I believe. I choose to believe on purpose, even though I would argue that most people don't believe them. I believe there's more where that came from. I try to think that as often as I can. Like instead of money is hard, we're running out of money. There's never enough. There's more where that came from. And I love that the earth and nature teaches us that. But there's always enough. There's always enough in nature. We plant one apple seed and it grows infinite apples. Like nature teaches us, there's always enough. The sun sets and then it rises every day again. There are always new beginnings. There's always enough. Nature teaches us that there's plenty and there's an abundance of everything. And I love believing that about not just about nature, but about money, about love, about friendship, about connection. I love believing that whenever I possibly can. This is one that I'm always working on. And there's a solution that's best for me and for everyone else, always. And I can find it. So I don't subscribe to the belief that, yeah, there's a solution that's best for them, but it will come at my expense. Or there's a solution that's best for me, but it will come at everyone else's expense. No, there Is always a solution and an answer that is an and that is best for me and them. And I love when I think that way. My brain gets so creative looking for the answer that's best for everyone. I believe that angels are everywhere. I can call on them to help me whenever I want. Some of them I can see and some of them I can't, but they are everywhere. And I love teaching my children this, too. I love believing that money doesn't change people. It just makes them more of who they are. And so it's made me less afraid of money and less afraid of people who have money. And it doesn't make me better than anybody else if I have more money than them. It just money can amplify who I am and make me more of that. I believe that people are good. So good. This one is really, really clutch. Like when I walk into a room or a situation. And I believe that at their core, all people are good. I treat them differently. I treat myself differently. This one has changed virtually, like every relationship that I have. And it has helped me connect with all sorts of people and all sorts of backgrounds, and I love it. I highly recommend that you adopt this thought. Even if you were taught as a child to be afraid of people, and I know many of you were, and you can change that. It is possible to change that. I have seen it happen so many times. I believe that when people behave badly, they're hurting in some way, and that brings me so much compassion for them and that I can see them as wounded. Instead of broken or bad or evil, they're just wounded. It doesn't mean that I would necessarily, like. Just like with a wounded animal, I might not go up to a wounded animal. Like, I might protect myself from that wounded animal. We can set boundaries and still believe that all people are good and that when they behave badly, they're just hurting in some way. I believe that people are capable of change, and they do it every day. I believe that I am a lighthouse, that I can shine my light wherever I go, and as I shine my light, other people are able to See themselves in a new light. I believe that I am a person who sees people as powerful, not just, like, their potential. Like, oh, they have so much potential, but who they really are now. They are powerful and resourceful right now. And when I see people as powerful, the conversations that I have with them are different. When I see my children as capable and powerful, the conversations that I have with them are completely different. Does it mean that I don't help them? Absolutely not. I am still there for them. They can still count on me. And I believe that they are powerful and resourceful exactly as they are. And that goes along with this belief that I used to have, that I need to be there for my kids whenever they need me, actually, or want to me. Right. Actually, they're strong and powerful and capable, and that if I'm not there, that they're very resourceful. I believe that. And it brings me such peace, and there's such a lack of anxiety there because I don't think that I have to be the only one that's there for them at any given time. I love the thought. It's this or something better. So when I think about things that I'm going through or something that I want, like, I've recently been going through some health challenges, and in my mind, I'm like, this is what I want. I want my body to heal itself in this way. I want to have this result. But then when I add on to it or something better, it just expands my view of what could be possible. And I just believe in a God who is better than our wildest dreams. So I might not be able to see the better, but he can, and they can. And so if I am open to this or something better, it helps me release the tight grip on how I think things should be. This is so helpful in parenting my kids because they have their own agency and their own choices, and sometimes I think that they should make certain choices, and they don't always make those. I'm like, well, it's this or something better. It's this or something better. They're going to learn this lesson, or it's going to Be something better. I can release this idea that I have, that I have to control them to feel a certain way. I love believing that. I don't need to know how some things are going to work out. The how will present itself. I just need one step. There is a hymn in my faith tradition that says, like, one step enough for me. I think that all the time, I just need to take the next step. I don't need to know the whole picture. I believe on purpose that miracles are everywhere. And that is so thrilling to me. One of the things that I've been practicing lately is in the morning, I go through my mind what I have planned for the day, and then I ask myself, what miracles am I going to see today? I learned this from my friend Colette. What miracles am I going to see? And, like, I like to guess, well, maybe I'll have a transformative conversation with this person, or maybe this thing will happen that I've really been wanting. I wonder what miracles are. It's going to be these or something better. And then I go throughout my day expecting miracles. And when I expect them, and I'm loosely held by what they're going to be, then I see them everywhere. It is a beautiful way to live. I believe that this is the greatest time in the history of the world to be alive. I know that's a controversial belief, and I say it not to discount any of the sadness and sorrow and really scary things that are going on in the world, but I still believe it's the best time in the history of the world to be alive. I believe that I'm strong. I've not always believed this. There was a time for many, many years where I kind of was like, well, I'm the weak one in my family. Like, I'm just not strong enough to do this or that. My siblings can do it, but I can't. And I now believe that I am strong. And that is a very powerful belief for me. I also believe that I'm a powerful force for good in the world. And you know what? So are you. If you have listened to this podcast and thought like, I want to believe those things, too, but I don't know how. That is the work that I do every day as a coach. And I can help you do it, too. So if you want to believe more powerful things and in turn become a more powerful person, then sign up for a consultation call with me by going to Sarah Payne coaching on Instagram and click on the button. It's either called consultation call or strategy session. But we can talk about the things that you want to believe on purpose and the things that you want to change in your life, the relationships that you want to be different. And I can help you make a clear path to get there, and we can talk about how we can work together in doing so. Have a great week. Bye.

Speaker A: You. If you ever find yourself saying yes to things when you really want to say no, and then feeling either exhausted or overwhelmed or resentful to the person who asked you to do that thing, or if you find that you feel guilty every time you say no when you don't want to do something, then this podcast is going to be so useful for. So stay tuned because I'm going to teach you why you feel resentful and why you feel guilty, and then how to say no with love, and how to say yes when you really mean it. Listen in. Ready to create rock solid relationships with the people that matter most to you. You are in the right place. My name is Sarah Payne, and I'm a master certified relationships coach. And each week I teach you how to create the connection and love that you desire because you know that the quality of your life is directly related to the quality of your relationships. I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to the podcast. Are you ready to talk about how to say no with love? And also how to know when you should say yes and when you should say no? I'm excited to teach you about this. This is a pretty hot topic. This is something that I coach my clients on all the time, and I think it's something that many of us struggle with, like how to say no, because we have all sorts of ideas about what it means to say no and the kind of people who say no and how we shouldn't say no. And so we're going to kind of uncover some of those things. And then you can learn to say yes when you mean it. Yes with love. And also to say no with love. And not feel guilty when you say no. And not feel resentful when you say yes. We're going to talk about all of that, but before we begin, I do have to tell you about this book that I'm reading that I am loving and that I just want to give to all of the people I love and your people that I love. So I'm going to tell you about it. It's called at 1 minute, and it's by Thomas McConkey. And it's all about just like living a life that is more embodied, more present, more grace filled. And so I've just really been enjoying it. And so particularly if you are a person of faith, which I think most of you are, most of you who listen to this podcast, I bring faith, and I wouldn't even say religion so much. It's just like faith and love into so many of my podcast episodes that I think that it will resonate for most of you. So go check it out. It's at one mint by Thomas McConkey. But okay, before we talk about how to say no with love, we need to understand why it's hard for us to say no. Like why we say yes when we mean no. And I think there are various reasons. But one of the reasons is it's hard for us to say no because we were taught to say yes. We're taught that it's rude to say no. We're taught that you should serve and love and help, especially if you are a woman. You were taught this, right? I think we were all taught this. But women, especially from the time that we're very little girls, are taught you should serve and you should love and you should say yes. I'm all for all of those things, just not at the expense of your well being and not at all costs. It's also hard to say no, because oftentimes you're choosing what you want most, which is whatever you're going to get by saying no. Whether it's time to yourself or working on a different project or taking a nap or whatever. It's often choosing what you want most, which is what you will get by saying no to choosing what you want in the moment, which is often like avoiding an uncomfortable conversation. Because, let's face it, it can sometimes be awkward to say no to someone in the moment. And so we choose what we want in the moment, which is the comfort of saying yes to what we want most, which is whatever we're giving up by saying no. And it's also hard because you don't want to see yourself. Most of us don't want to see ourselves as selfish or unhelpful, and we don't want others to see us that way either. So we often say yes when we mean no. So now that we understand what's going on, likely going on in our brains when we say yes, when we mean no, now we can talk about how to know when we should say yes and when we should say no. I think it's really important to ask yourself, what do I want here? That is, like, cringy for a lot of you. I know it is. I know some of you just bristled like it's selfish to consider what I want, and I respectfully disagree with it being selfish to consider what you want. And also, I just want to give you permission to. You can decide what you want and still say. Still choose something different. But being honest with yourself about what you want is really a way to build a relationship of trust with yourself. So sometimes that means that you might pause and you might not answer right away. You might not say yes right away because you want to consider, what do I want? And like I said, this is just an opportunity to be honest with yourself. It doesn't mean you have to act on it, but you can acknowledge it. And then you want to weigh the factors, including what you want as well. So you want to weigh what it would look like to say yes and what it would look like to say no. You want to recognize that saying yes to something means you're saying no to something else, whether it's, like I said, time to yourself or more space to do what you've already committed to or any number of things. But saying yes, when we recognize that saying yes to something means saying no to something else, it can just give us a little bit of perspective, and it can have us pause before saying yes to everything. Right? Saying yes when you really mean no often comes with resentment. It's like, does this sound familiar? Like, why do they have to ask me? Don't they know that I do everything? How dare they? Seriously, I can't believe they have the nerve to ask this. That feels awful, right? It feels, like kind of self righteous a little bit, speaking from personal experience here, but it also feels terrible because it comes to so much judgment of the person who asked us to do the thing. And I think sometimes we think in such a either or way that it's like, oh, I can either say yes and feel resentful, or I can say no, and then they are going to resent me. And so in this weird power play, we try to manipulate what other people are going to think of us, and so we say yes when we mean no. And there are just more options than that. Is it possible that the person is going to resent you if you say, yeah, no, absolutely. But they could resent you if you say yes too. Like, they should have said yes with more gusto or with more. Like, they should want to want to do this. Right. So when we find ourselves trying to control or manipulate how other people perceive us, that's just a good reason to take pause and to notice that, like, oh, I'm trying to control what they think of me. Good to know. Maybe that's not the best reason to say yes to something. And then that brings me to my next point. Like, your reasons for saying yes or for saying no. And one of your reasons can just be because I want to like, because I want to say no. That's reason enough. Sometimes I say yes to things that I don't want to do because I like my reasons why. And sometimes I say no to things that I actually would like to do because I like my reasons why. And we're going to get into a couple of examples. But once you make a decision, like your reasons, and then make a decision, and then you can get creative about how you deliver that. If your decision is a no, you can get creative about how you say it. Let me give you a few examples. No, but I can't do that. I'm not willing to do that, but I am willing to do this. Or you can say, can I get back to you, like, just giving yourself that space? I'm not saying you don't get back to them. You can still get back to them, but you don't have to say no. When you're feeling, like, activated or heightened. I'm willing to fill in the brain do this. I love to say, oh, my goodness. I am so flattered that you asked. This happened recently when I said no to someone. I am so flattered that you asked me and no, because I wanted to give this person an explanation, but you definitely don't have to. Which brings me to my last point. You can just say, no, thank you. And that is a complete sentence. You don't have to explain your reasons to anyone. You can, but you don't have to. And you don't have to be mad about that either. You can say, no, thank you with love. And that can be the end of the conversation. That being said, let's take some examples. So recently, my son asked me to play pool with him. We have a pool table in our house here in Colorado, and he asked me to play pool with him. I don't like to play pool, y'all. It's not my favorite pastime. And initially, I was like, it's a no in my mind. Like, that's what I thought. And then I kind of went through these steps and I paused for a second. Then I asked myself, okay, what do I want in the moment? I don't really want to play pool, but I do want to connect with my son. This is the dialogue going on in my mind. So I weighed the factors. Okay, playing pool is probably going to take, I don't know, like, half an hour, and then I'll still have time to do some of the things that I had planned before. He asked me to play. And then I recognized, okay, if I say no to playing pool, it means I will have less time to say yes to the things that I had planned. Good to know. Do I like my reasons for saying no? And in the moment, I was like, I don't really like my reasons, actually, because I want to be a person who, a mother who says yes when her son invites her to hang out, especially, like, weighing what else I had going on in my mind, I was like, oh, I was going to relax and watch a show, but I wasn't feeling, like, super burnt out or tired. I was just, like, looking forward to it. But in my mind, I was like, oh, I like my reasons for saying yes because I want to. Want to play pool with my son. Are you picking up this whole conversation I'm having in my head? And so I liked my reasons for saying yes, and I checked in with myself. Do I feel resentful? Am I feeling like he's asking me to do one more thing with him? No. I'm actually looking forward to spending some time with him. Even though my first choice wouldn't be to play pool. Like, I owned my decision. I could say no here, and I could say no with love, and that would be okay. I am choosing. This is key, my friends. I'm choosing to say yes because of who, like, the kind of person that I want to be. There's no right or wrong here. I could have chosen to say no and liked my reasons for that, too. But the key here is, like, giving myself the ownership and the responsibility over this decision. And so that's how I came to the decision of choosing to play pool with my ten year old son. Now, there was another time where I was working in a position in my church, in a leadership position in my church. And my pastor asked me to do something. He asked me to head up, like, all of these dinners with, like, over that spanned there was, like, one a month indefinitely. And I didn't want to do it. I was like, no, I don't want to do that. So first I recognized what I wanted, right? I took a pause. I did not answer him right away. I took a time to pause and find out what it was that I really wanted. Okay. So now I know that what I want. Let me weigh the factors. Okay. He wants me to do these dinners. I don't want to do those dinners. What else do I want to include? Well, this has been a tradition in our congregation. Okay? So that's good to know. Do I want to do it just because it's been a tradition? And I was like, actually, no, I don't and are there other factors that come in? Yes, there would be other women that would be helping me with this. Okay. So I want to consider them, and the opportunity gives them to serve, and I also want to consider the things that they have going that are on their plate. Right. And consider. Okay, do I want to ask them? Because it would be me asking these women to participate in these dinners, do I want to ask them to do this thing? And after I weighed it and I liked my reasons, I decided it was a no for me and that I could say no with love. So it sounded like, I know that this has historically been a tradition in our congregation, and I'm not going to be in charge of it anymore. And I so appreciate eight, you asking me, and it's a no. And then I allowed my pastor to have his own experience with it, to think whatever he thought. I'm sure he thought plenty of things about me and my possibly, like, unwillingness to do the status quo, what had always been done. But because I liked my reasons for saying no, it was so much easier for me to allow him to have his own experience. Now, what ended up happening, this isn't always the case, but what ended up happening is because he saw that I was willing to say no. And because I took into consideration all of the factors, it developed this relationship of trust with us. Because he knew that I was willing to say no when I meant no, and that when I said yes, I meant yes. I was all in, so I wasn't going to say no and then be resentful. If I said yes to him, then he knew I was going to be all in, and I knew I was going to be all in, and I knew that. I learned from that experience. Oh, my goodness, I didn't die when I said no and allowed him to have his own opinion of me. That didn't make me crumble. It was like such a self confidence builder as well. And so let me just review these steps one more time to not just to saying no, but also to saying no when you mean no, and saying yes when you mean yes. When someone asks you to do something, pause, then ask yourself what you want and take that into consideration. Just to be honest with what you want. Then weigh the factors and include it in it. What you want. Recognize that saying yes to something automatically means saying no to something else. This was key for me in saying no to my pastor. I was like, if I say yes to this, it's going to take up a significant amount of my time and also the time of the women in my congregation. And I think that there's better uses of our time. There's ways that we can serve more effectively in our community than this. So I took that into consideration, and after considering that, the next step comes into play. I liked my reasons, and so I made the decision to say no. And I chose an uncomfortable conversation in the moment over long term comfort of liking my reasons for saying no. And then I did get a little bit creative with how I said it. I was like, no, we're not willing to do this because I want to make time to do XYZ. Instead, we're not going to do these dinners for the people in our congregation because I want to be able to free up time for the women to. That was where my leadership calling was. Like, I had a stewardship over a large group of women. And because we are saying no to serving these people in our congregation, we can say yes to serving in the greater community, like soup kitchens and the Salvation army and things like that. And I liked my reasons, and I got creative about it. And then I would add that the last step is to allow people to have their own experience with your no. I hope this podcast has been helpful. And if you struggle to say no, I want you to know that you're not alone. This is something very common, like we talked about at the beginning. Of course you struggle with it. You were taught to say yes all the time. And all that's going on is that you're choosing to say yes to the comfort in the moment of people not having thoughts about what kind of person you are that says no. And then over the long term comfort of owning your own decision and taking into account what you want most. So if you struggle with this and you're like, I want help, sign up for consultation. Call. You can do that. Easiest way, honestly, is to go to my Instagram account, Sarah Payne coaching, and there's a link in my bio, and you can sign up, and I will help you get started. We can talk about how to work together, because this learning, this skill will truly change your whole life. It's going to change all of your relationships for the better when you learn how to say no with love. Can't wait to meet.

Speaker A: This is the rock solid relationships podcast. Making friendships that last. An interview with Chelsea Winterholler and Lynn Yule. Ready to create rock solid relationships with the people that matter most to you. You are in the right place. My name is Sarah Payne, and I'm a master. Certified relationships coach. And each week, I teach you how to create the connection and love that you desire because you know that the quality of your life is directly related to the quality of your relationships. I'm so glad you're here. Hey, friends. I have an exciting podcast for you today, so let me just give you a little bit of background. I have a couple of dear friends. We all live in different states now, but we met when we all lived in Montana, and Lynn still lives in Montana, and Chelsea lives in Washington, and I live in Colorado. But we have really kept in touch and even become closer than ever as we have become better friends, even as we've lived far away. And we decided we want every woman in the world, every person in the world, to have a friendship like the kind of friendship that we have with one another. And so we decided to record a podcast about it, and we did. And Chelsea kind of leads the discussion. And you can find her she's also a life coach. You can find her on Instagram at Winter Hauler Coaching if you're interested. She helps moms embrace their children's future without fear, and you can find her there. But I think you'll really enjoy this podcast and just the insights that we've gleamed about friendship from being such dear friends with one another. And I know that that's something that I coach my clients on often. It's just like this desire to find lasting friendships that are meaningful. And we believe, all of us believe, that you can do that no matter where you are. That it's not this magical thing that we have that nobody else has, that it's something that's available to all of you. And we, in this podcast talk about how to do that. You can also, if you're interested in finding more about Chelsea, aside from her Instagram handle, you can find her at Embrace Relief with Chelsea Winterholler on any podcast, like, wherever you listen to your podcasts. So I really hope that you enjoy this episode and that you gleam some insights into your own friendships and into how to make even more amazing friendships. Thanks for listening.

Speaker B: Well, hello, ladies. We are going to talk about friendship today. I am so excited. Why don't each of us kind of introduce ourselves? Do we need to? Do I? Let's start with Sarah. She is really good at introducing herself, so if we let Sarah go first, then I think both follow.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Lyn and I will feel better about the situation. So go ahead, Sarah.

Speaker C: Awesome. I'm Sarah Payne. I'm a master certified relationships coach, so I help. Women love being married. And I am a mother of four and I'm married to Ryan. We've been married almost 18 years. So, yeah, I'm super excited to be here. And I met both of these wonderful women when we all lived in Montana together. And I now live in Colorado.

Speaker B: Awesome. Montana. Best state ever. All right, Lynn, who are you?

Speaker D: Well, I'm Lynn Yule. I am a nurse, a registered nurse. I've met you guys really? Through our church, obviously. Right. And then while we lived here in Montana. But I am married to Jason. We've been married for 21 years, you guys. I know. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. But I am not as adept at, like, podcasting as you people are, so I will yeah, do my best.

Speaker B: Which is why we are so excited. Lynn's going to freshen it up a little around here. And Lynn loves to camp in her super killer Airstream. And my husband's so jealous that you own one.

Speaker D: Oh, my gosh. It's the cutest thing ever. We love it.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: Sometimes I just go sit out in like I just love her.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: What's her name again? Does she have a name?

Speaker D: Bambi.

Speaker B: Bambi.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: I love it. Awesome. And I am Chelsea Winterholler. And I am also a life coach. I help moms help their kids face their fears around their future. So any unsure things that are going on in your future, I help you work on that. And I am also married. Not for 21 years, but I guess I'm getting closeish to that. I have three boys and we just do all the sports. That's great. I love it. So by day, I'm a life coach, by night I'm a chauffeur. That's what I would say. So Sarah and Lynn and I are just we seriously we have created this intense level of friendship that we want to teach all of you to create. Because I totally well, we've talked about this. We all believe that it's totally available to anyone. So the past few weeks, we've kind of been taking notes on the things that are unique about our friendship and we just want to talk about it and share it. So first thing that I want to go with is expecting something from a friendship versus choosing to connect. What does that mean to you guys? Why did we think that this was one important thing in our friendship? Like not coming in, expecting anything from each other?

Speaker C: Hoko. I think it's important because when I expect things from you, like I expect you to answer my text or my Marco Polo within a certain amount of time, then it immediately just puts me on guard. Kind of like, you better prove yourself to me kind of situation versus when. I wouldn't say I don't have expectations for either of you. Maybe I have some assumptions or I'm sure they'll get back to me type of thing, but when I drop those expectations, then I'm just able to love you both instead of putting you on this. It's almost like in the past, they better prove themselves to me that they are worthy, being a certain level of friendship. We see this on social media a lot, right? And in pop psychology, people will show you who they are, and when they do, listen to them. And I think there's wisdom in that. But I also think I don't really want to be entering the important relationships in my life with that kind of mentality. It's just exhausting.

Speaker B: Yeah. Even Sarah, when you said that the assumption, so you said Marco Polo. We Marco polo. All the and tell people what that.

Speaker C: Is, just in case they don't know what that is.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. If you don't know what it is, join the Earth. But just a virtual platform where you send videos back and forth, but you can send it at any time, and then the person can reply whenever they want. So as we talk on there, when you said that there was a assumption or you assume that we'll get back to you at some point, and even yesterday, lyn sent a Marco Polo, and I watched it, and I didn't reply. And Lynn, were you thinking, like, she hates, obviously. Oh reply?

Speaker D: No. I mean, I think that that's, like, the beauty of this relationship, our friendship that we've created. I feel like I don't even put a label on our friendship. I don't say we're best friends. Do you know what I mean? To me, there's no label with our friendships. And so then whatever manual, I don't feel like it was written beforehand. I feel like it's been created through our interactions. When nobody responded back to me yesterday, it's just like there's no personal I didn't feel, like, flighted or whatever. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't like, oh, they don't care. They're not responding. It was just like, we're busy, and we'll get back to each other when the time is right, if that makes any.

Speaker B: So well, it's just so interesting. I love that you said the manuals being created, like, right now. What if we Sarah master relationship coach? What if that was every relationship in your life? That you're just creating the manual as you go versus expecting everything because of past experience?

Speaker C: As Lynn was talking too, I just recognized another thing that we do that I think is really useful for our friendship number. I remember growing up and my mom, with the best of intentions, she would always say, like, three girls can't get along. You either have to have two, which I think that's terrible advice, and it was well meaning, and it's just not true. But also, as you were talking, like, oh, we just have such an expansive, abundant view of each other's. Don't I literally spend zero time thinking, like, is Lynn closer with Chelsea than she is with me, or does Chelsea like Lynn better than she likes I. And I recognize that you probably talk to each other outside of our three way Marco Polo conversation, and I think that that's amazing. Right. And just before we hit record, Lynn, who is the only one of us that still lives in Montana, was telling us both about how she's going to get together with a friend later on today that Chelsea and I both know and they're going to, like, spend some time and, like, I felt zero. Like, I think I thought, I wish I were there. I want to be there. But there was no, like, well, lyn better not become as close to this friend as she is to, like, careful what you share with. Like, none of that. And it sounds silly when we say it out loud, but we feel those things. Right. But in my mind, I'm just like, oh, yeah, the more love that Lyn has for other people, the more love that Chelsea has for other people, the more that it's going to come back to me.

Speaker B: And I will say I feel that in other relationships. Like, oh, look at they're being friends with not they must not like me. That difference, you think? That's what I was going to say. Sarah so, Lynn, what do you think is the difference there between our relationship versus some of those other ones? I might feel less than just okay.

Speaker D: Like, I was thinking of the book, like, not being invited to the book club or finally being invited to the book club and then realizing that all of these people that I thought were my friends were already a part of it. And why didn't they invite you?

Speaker C: Years.

Speaker D: Yes. And why didn't they invite me? And so I totally felt in that moment not a part of the group. Right. But then my connection with those people is so different from my connection with you guys. Like, I feel like my connection to you is born out of love and my connection to them is born out of almost, like, societal. Right. Like, you're a part of this group. I want to be a part of this group. You seem to be like, I don't know if that makes any sense. I don't know. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker C: It's like a relationship of convenience or.

Speaker D: I'm just on the outside of the group looking in versus being on the inside of that group. I don't know if that makes any sense.

Speaker B: Yeah. When you said that, I think there's that version of how we started. This was like, what do we expect from people? Right. And why do we expect those things? And then who we choose to connect with? Because it truly is a choice. Like, we invest a lot of time in one another and in our very personal lives. Like, I choose to be invested in your life and those people, typically, that I'm feeling jealous of or that I'm feeling not included. Like, I don't know that I'm investing in connecting with them fully.

Speaker C: Like, they're not my friends on Marco Polo.

Speaker D: Right. And I would say that that is accurate because it's almost like when we're connected, you feel our connection. It's almost like I can feel my heart, like, connecting to you. Does that make any yeah, like, in those instances, it's a little bit more superficial. I would say.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker C: Would you say you're more guarded?

Speaker B: Sorry, go.

Speaker C: Sarah, would you say you're more guarded, too, Lynn? Like, you're just less likely to open up.

Speaker D: Oh, for sure. And I'm not sure what I can it's like, well, I'm not sure if I share this completely personal experience, will I be judged? Will I be that different of so.

Speaker C: Can we talk about that whole, like, the J word? Yeah, I think we worry about that so much. Like, well, these people will judge me. I can't share myself with them. And we've talked about this before. Like, well, one of the reasons that we are so close is we don't judge each other. But then I was like, no, I judge you guys all the.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: It's not that because I have thoughts about you and how you live your life all the so what's the difference?

Speaker B: I think the difference in yeah, like lyn said, judging with oh, and this is what we talked about is that I can judge you all want, but your choices don't impact me. And so I'm like, oh, why would Sarah buy that car? Like, that car is so ugly. What is she thinking? She's thinking about buying a really ugly car. That's why I'm doing like but it doesn't impact me, so her choices don't affect me at all. So then I feel like, oh, I'm able to love you anyway. I can judge you and love you at the same time because it doesn't impact me. No, I think that's true.

Speaker C: And then I also think all three of us get to a space fairly quickly where we realize those judgments are about us, they're not about the other person. Right. So then you might be like, okay, Sarah, tell me why you want to buy a Rivian. Because I think they're ugly, but I want to want to understand why you don't think they're ugly. Right.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: I remember recently, I recommended a book to all of you, and Chelsea was like, I'm loving this book. It's so good. And lyn got on it. She's like, I don't really get like it seems kind of dumb and superficial. She didn't say, like, that. She was much more tactful than that. But I remember initially totally judging Lynn and being like, what's her problem? This is the best book ever. And then, like, recognized my own judgments, and I was like, I want to know what Lynn thinks about this book that's different than what I think about this book. And maybe I can share some of the reasons I love it. And also, if she doesn't love it, that's fine, whatever.

Speaker B: Yeah. We genuinely want to know what each other is thinking and why, what's behind it.

Speaker D: Well, and I think that goes to we have a high level of respect for each other and what we choose to share with one another. And I don't know, just like in who we? Right. Like, when Sarah recommends a book, it's because she was impacted by it. Right. And we trust Sarah, and we trust her. I don't know her recommendations or think I don't know with just anyway, I don't know where my dog was.

Speaker C: I think there's for sure, like, safety in our relationship, but I don't think the safety comes because there's a lack of judgment. No, the safety comes because we all like it's almost like we take extreme ownership over our feelings, at least. Speaking for myself personally, I trust that all of you are going to love me even if you disagree with me. I don't know, what do you all think about that?

Speaker D: I think that that's true. Don't you think that that's true? And that comes from our experiences of just that happening. Right.

Speaker B: It's come from us showing up. Right. Like, actually proving it. Proving like, we're going to be here for you and we're going to love you no matter what. I mean, we go through a lot more than not liking each other's books or the car that each other chooses. We've been through or in the middle of health issues, family issues, relationships. I mean, real deep, deep struggles. I see tears in eyes, and I think that, like, being there through it and not running away when it gets hard, that creates that respect that Lynn and the respect that Lynn is talking about and the trust that Sarah's talking about, that we're here, we're in it.

Speaker C: So if someone's listening and thinking, like, I want, like, what's the formula?

Speaker D: What is the formula?

Speaker B: I one thing that I would say is part of the formula is that you get to create it if you want it. I think having that belief, first and foremost, is that, no, I can create this type of friendship and really putting it out. Yeah. Really, truly believing it.

Speaker C: Yeah. I totally agree, because I think I've coached women on this before where they were just like, I don't believe that there are women out there that will have deep connections with I'm like, well, then you're not going to find it. They're everywhere, though, if you believe that.

Speaker D: They're everywhere.

Speaker B: For sure.

Speaker C: Choose who you like. I don't want to have this kind of relationship with everybody. I don't want to share my deepest, darkest secrets with everybody. But as I think about each of you, I'm like, what attracted me to Chelsea and and like, there were specific things, like, wanted more of in my.

Speaker B: Life that you both.

Speaker C: Then and then believing that that is out. Like, you don't have to have that relationship with everyone. You don't have to have that relationship with the members of any given book club, but you can have it with it's available to you. We're meant to be connected to one another.

Speaker B: And then my thought as you're saying that is like, yeah, but it's hard and it's going to take a long time. Right.

Speaker C: Really take that long, though.

Speaker B: Well, that's what I'm saying. Like so natural. I can just hear people thinking like, well, yeah, this is going to be so hard to do that and it's just going to take so long.

Speaker C: You know what? I think it's way harder. Oh, sorry Lynn, I'm going to cut you off.

Speaker D: Go ahead.

Speaker C: It's way harder to live your life.

Speaker D: Believing each other, right. And I think the fun of it is, even if it did take long, the fun is in learning about each other and connecting with each other and having experiences that you enjoy together. And I think of you both, right, over the years, all of the different ways in which we've connected, from very small juices, right, chelsea and small conversations and sitting by one another in a new experience or whatever, just from all of those little things. That was fun, right? Like, getting to know each other and finding those connections. And then it's easy to build on that. Does that make any sense? So if it does take a while or if it doesn't take a while, either way, the process can be an enjoyable process.

Speaker B: It totally does. And I think as you invest in your relationship and prioritize each other and it might be something you have to learn. You might have to learn and teach yourself. Like, how do I prioritize a relationship? I don't even know what that looks like. But the way that you figure out what it looks like for you is just start doing it. Set an alarm in your phone, like every other day at 07:30 p.m.. That's like, don't forget to check on Sally.

Speaker D: Right?

Speaker B: That can be what it looks like. If you desire to have a relationship with someone, it can be you just showing up until they figure out how awesome you are and they start showing up too.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker B: I love this idea that what we believe about one another, we also believe about ourselves. So I'm just going to say some things that I believe about you guys. And then you can give me your thoughts. So they love me no matter what. They see the best in me, they will forgive me, right? Maybe I want what's best for you also. What do those thoughts make you think? Those are things I believe about you.

Speaker C: I love that you believe that about me. And then I concur. I'm like, yes, I feel the same way about all of you. You both give me so much grace. And you see in me potential that I can't always see in myself. And as I think about how the because for those listening, we weren't like this super bestie club when we lived in Montana. We've actually become so much closer since we moved, I would say through the gift of technology. And I was listening to a podcast recently on relationships and it said it takes 200 hours to develop a deep and abiding friendship. And I was just like, that is a lie. I don't think it takes that long at all. I guess it could, but it doesn't have to. It really doesn't. You can forge lasting friendships in one conversation.

Speaker D: I would totally agree with that. But I think it's all in what you share in the conversation. Right. It's really at the core of being vulnerable. I feel like that's truly like there's so much vulnerability in our friendships with one another and I feel like that is the crux of our connection.

Speaker B: I not long ago heard that being vulnerable is being courageous. Like, that they just are the exact same word. And I wholeheartedly agree with that because it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable, to open up to people. And Sarah, as you said, that we became closer after we moved away. I think one reason is because we have had a rough couple of years and when we all lived together, we.

Speaker D: Were doing a lot of like we.

Speaker B: Were kind of coasting and things were going okay. And when what's it called when this stick hit the road? I can't think of when the rubber hit the road. When hard things happened in my life and hard things started happening in Lynn's life and hard things started happening in your like you need people. And so we became this vulnerable pod that was like, this is happening and I am expressing myself like our friendship has been forged through hardships more than through when we were fluffing in the clouds.

Speaker C: I've never totally made that connection. But as you were talking about all of that and I was thinking about the things that both of you are going through and that I'm going through and it makes me so grateful for my trials because you're right, we've needed each other more and that's really sacred.

Speaker B: That is really beautiful. I don't know if I still want the trials, but no, I agree.

Speaker C: The way you develop that without them.

Speaker B: Yes, I think you still can get close to people. Even if you feel like your life's going great, that's through. That just prioritizing and starting with the juice. Like if we hadn't started with the little things like Lynn met me and my kids and Lyn doesn't have kids. She met me and my kids in the park like multiple times, probably against her and but that's where it started was just those simple moments, for sure.

Speaker D: And I would say it wasn't comfortable at first to start. It's never comfortable at first to start hanging out with somebody new. Right. It does feel awkward. It feels a little weird, like you really sometimes don't want to go. Right. You have to choose to want to create or to at least try to create new friendships and to allow the awkwardness yeah.

Speaker B: Choose to want to create it. I love that it feels like a tongue twister, but I like it. I also think there is a level of empathy that we hold for one another because I don't understand some of your trials, because they haven't been mine. But I have to choose consciously to try to understand and to be there and love through it and feel it as much as I can without it.

Speaker C: That's like, such a gift that you give your friends, right? Instead of like, come on, you shouldn't be feeling this way to just be like, I'll sit down with you in the mud right now. I haven't been in this mess before, but I'm going to imagine with you for just a minute what that might feel like.

Speaker D: And I think that that, again, is, like, such vulnerability. I remember, Sarah, when, like, had, like, my eggs wouldn't grow and failed IVF and you brought me flowers and you just sat with me in sadness, and I didn't need to feel better for you to feel better. You could just be sad with me.

Speaker C: Yeah. We think that we're trying to make the person feel better by offering them whatever. Oh, Lynn, you don't want kids anyway. They're like the trial of a whatever, insensitive thing I could have said that I'm sure I have said before. Instead, it's like, no, I'll just be with you right now and for as long as you need me to. And then on the flip side, I think we all show each other grace. But you in particular, Lynn, you show so much grace. When I put my foot in my mouth and I say something dumb about how hard it is to have kids or whatever, something that this struggle I'm going through is so challenging, not thinking about how one of us would give anything to have a struggle like that.

Speaker D: But I also think, too, again, there's a lot of love and understanding from me on my end for you and your families and your children. I don't know what that heart is like, but I know that it's hard. Do you know what I mean? I think that it's not offensive to me. I choose not to be offended by that because hard is hard. Right? We've talked about this before. Like, a trial is a trial. Hard is hard regardless of the context of the trial or the hardness, the feelings and the pain is real, regardless.

Speaker C: I love how you said, I choose not to be offended because I think that that is another key of our friendship. It's like that we choose on purpose not to. Right. Because as soon as we allow ourselves to be offended and don't work through it, then we separate ourselves from one another.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: And so then it's like, instead of working through and being like, I'm going to choose on purpose not to be offended by what somebody says, we have to curate a life where we're never around people that might offend us, which is so much harder than just managing our thinking around it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. It's a choice because you're human and I'm human, and we just say dumb things sometimes. I love thinking that and you hear this a lot, but that we have so much more in common than we have different so even though you're going through different trials or have different life experiences, it doesn't mean that you can't have empathy for that and understand how that would feel if you were in their shoes. I think you can feel it almost as much as people that you love and are invested in. And we always see that too. When someone close to us is hurting and you have no control to fix, like, it almost hurts you more.

Speaker D: Totally.

Speaker C: As you were talking to Chelsea, I was just like, we can all relate to feelings. Like, I might not have been sad about the same things that you've been sad about or that Lynn has been sad about, but I know what it feels like to feel deep sadness, and so I can connect with you. Like and I don't even have to say, like, I don't have to be like, oh, I felt the sadness too. Let me tell you about the time I felt sad. Although I think we give each other so much grace when we do that, but it can just be like, I know what it feels like to be sad or scared or afraid.

Speaker B: Yeah. There's a fine line, right, in acknowledging that you have felt it, too, and being a one upper. I think we're really good at not one upping. It's not fun to be friends with people who are one uppers who just share a worse story if you don't know what a one upper is. I could introduce you to a few people. But right. Sharing you share something that's hard for you and then the person is like, oh, I went through something just as hard, probably harder. Let me tell you about that. It doesn't help. It is helpful, though, for someone to say, I have felt sad like that too. Let me be sad with you. Yeah.

Speaker C: Tell me more.

Speaker B: Yeah, you don't have to tell your story.

Speaker D: Right. But I would say that that is a normal human behavior to kind of do that. And so I think you have to retrain yourself sometimes in those situations to be maybe recognized if you did one up right. And just learn a different way of connecting. Does that make any sense? Yeah, I love that.

Speaker C: Forgive yourself when you do.

Speaker D: Yeah, for sure. Because we're totally human, and we do yes.

Speaker B: Like, literally. I remember a couple weeks ago, Sarah told a story, and I think you were pretty upset on Marco Polo. And I was like, listen, I know I'm one upping right now. Like, I called it out, and I said, but this has happened to me. And and we were able to maybe you didn't feel that, but we were able to connect through our trial. Rather than me just not recognizing that I was trying to one up you, I just acknowledge it like, hey, I can connect with you here because of this in my life.

Speaker C: No, I love that.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: And at that point, I was like, tell me more about your experience, because I want to stop thinking about mine. Right. So it's not like there's this formula of how to do it or how to not, but when you're loving people and showing yourself and them grace, then it's easier to help one another.

Speaker D: And I think, again, when the goal is just connection, I think that there's no hierarchy of like, oh, my life is harder than your life, and you have no idea of what this that's not true connection. Right. When you really just want to connect and love people for who they are, I feel like even when you do one up, it's like, with the goal of connecting or sharing or yeah, Lynn.

Speaker B: I just wrote that down. I take notes a lot when I'm doing this, but I just wrote that down. Just love her for who she is. Like, if you want to connect with someone, just love them for who they are. Right.

Speaker C: Then I think that takes practice and that we can practice on ourselves, too. Like, as you're saying that, I'm like, oh, yeah, when you practice loving yourself for who you are, it translates.

Speaker D: And I was just thinking to you, we have all done so much work on ourselves, right? We have all done so much work on ourselves, and a healthier relationship with who we are personally, I think, allows for genuine connection. You know what I mean? There's just more love there to just flow. I don't know.

Speaker C: I agree.

Speaker D: Well, I think. Yeah.

Speaker C: I don't know if you would call it, like, emotional intelligence or what, but I don't ever go into a conversation with either of you thinking like, I better be careful about I don't want to offend them or I don't want them to get upset by not that that could never happen, but that I recognize that if it did, that we could work it out and that we are all committed to taking radical responsibility for our own lives.

Speaker D: Yeah. There's no expectation that we're friends with each other. For you guys, I don't expect you to make me feel better, but it's.

Speaker B: Great when you do make me.

Speaker D: It's, like, amazing, and then it just naturally happens, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: But you feel better, I think because you have that open, vulnerable you're being your true self. You're accepting and loving yourself in this relationship. So of course you're going to feel better when you're able to express that something else. Last thing. This has all been great and amazing and lovey dovey and beautiful, but something else that I think we are really good at is kind of calling each other out sometimes.

Speaker D: Josie, you're super good at this.

Speaker B: To a am I'm a very blunt person? It's my superpower being blunt, positive or negative. But I do think we allow each other to be in the sadness and there is the time that it switches and we're like, okay, now what do you want to do about it? What do you want to do? Do you want to stay sad or are we ready? Let me know when you're ready and then I'll tell you how to dig yourself out of this pit.

Speaker D: I've been coached by both of you for different things and I just think for me, not being a coach, but having both of you, our friendships and just everything I've learned from you, the benefit of your way of thinking has changed me. I don't know if it's profound and so it's interesting. When I do go to with other friendships and stuff, I'm always like, Sarah, I used to do this to you all the time. I'm like, so and so. You need to talk to, you know, like, she will change your way of thinking. She will change your yeah. It's just like just who you both are and just the way that you live your lives and present yourselves is an amazing gift in a friendship, but it's awesome and I don't know, I just want to convey that to other people to carry that forward.

Speaker B: And do you think you don't I'm.

Speaker D: Not as good as you guys, but it's more natural, like, in our friendship, just the way that you guys you know what I mean? It's more natural to be open and to call each other out and it's not always so natural like in other friendships, which is interesting to me.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think that comes from us being vulnerable too, though, right. And choosing not to be offended and all the things we've talked about, investing the time and prioritizing one another there. It shapes your relationship.

Speaker C: Definitely beautiful.

Speaker B: Any last thoughts, ladies? Any last thoughts that stand out to you about friendships and what we've created here?

Speaker C: I think if I could tell the listeners one thing, it would just be like, this is possible for you too. And the first step is just to believe that it is and to just look for it.

Speaker D: I think I would just share. Just put yourself out there, even if it feels uncomfortable, if you feel awkward, if you feel weird, if you feel like you're not. For me, I don't feel like I'm a naturally friendly person. Chelsea, you're just, like, friends with everybody. You're such a good friend. And I feel like that's not a natural quality that I have, but it's one that I've been developing, and I feel like I have developed, and I continue to develop. But put yourself out there and just allow for the awkwardness. But it's so worth it. It's just so worth it.

Speaker B: I love that, Lynn. I think that's perfect to end on. It is so worth, um we see the fruits of our labors, this hard work that this friendship is no. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy. But having the opportunity to create these relationships is so worth it. So thank you guys. Thank you so much for being here. You're awesome. Talk to you minutes on Marco polo.

Speaker D: Love you guys.

Speaker C: Love you, too.

Ready to create rock solid relationships with the people that matter most to you, you are in the right place. My name is Sarah Payne, and I'm a master. Certified relationships coach. And each week, I teach you how to create the connection and love that you desire, because you know that the quality of your life is directly related to the quality of your relationships. I'm so glad you're here. Okay. Sometimes I tell you guys, like, little finds that I get that I get, that I have. When I find something I love, I like to tell you that's what I mean to say. And sometimes that's a book I'm reading, and sometimes that is a place we visited, and sometimes it's a podcast I listen to this week. It's a new kind of candy that I love. All right. I don't eat a lot of sugar. I discovered several years ago that sugar gave me migraines, and so I almost completely cut it out of my diet. I just have it on occasion. But I do love myself some mints. And one of my favorite new mints I just discovered I didn't just discover icebreakers. I've been eating icebreakers forever, but icebreakers has I think it's new. It's a new kind of icebreaker. They're called icebreakers sparkling, and they, like, fizz in your mouth, kind of like a zot or what are those other candies? Like Pop Rocks. They're not as strong as Pop Rocks, and they're the shape of an icebreaker. But the flavor that I found was and I just found it at Walmart, in that little section of Walmart when you first walk in, and there's like a little drink section and just candy and stuff like that. And it's called Raspberry Lemon Seltzer, and it literally, like, fizzes in your mouth. It's just so fun. So if you are looking for a new little way to add a little joy to life, then there you go. You have it in the icebreakers. Raspberry, lemon, seltzer, sparkling Mints And I think you can find them on Amazon, too, but I found them at Walmart. Just full disclosure. Okay, but today we are going to talk about the habitual overwhelm, as I have just I made up that name. How do you like it? I kind of like it. I think it describes perfectly what so many of us can relate to. All right. So as I think about the emotion of overwhelm, most of us believe, or grew up believing, that overwhelm comes when we have too many things on our to do list. Too many things to get the kids to, too many things to accomplish, too many things to not enough time, and too many tasks is basically what causes overwhelm. But the fact of the matter is, overwhelm being an emotion, it's not caused by anything outside of us, including our to do list. It is caused by our thinking, our thinking about what it is that we have to do I think it's really important for all of us to figure out what those thoughts are that create the feeling of overwhelm for us in our body. For many of you, it's probably something as simple as there's so much to do, I'm so busy I'm drowning. I'll never get all of this done. Thoughts like that cause overwhelm. And maybe there are even some thoughts in there like, I'm not doing enough for my kids or I'm ******** them up, or I'll never be able to be like, what they need. Whatever it is, it's some version of not enough of you and too much going on outside of you. And so each and every one of those thoughts is worth questioning. And here's why. Number one, first and foremost, it feels terrible to feel overwhelmed. Like, it's exhausting, right? So that alone is worth questioning the thinking that makes you feel that way. But number two, when we feel overwhelmed, nine times out of ten, for 90% of us, we do less when we feel overwhelmed. Like, most people, most women, when they feel overwhelmed, they don't kick it into high gear. They need to lay down and take a nap. Which actually is the opposite. Like, it just compounds on itself, right? Then you end up feeling more overwhelmed because you're like, oh great, I just wasted the afternoon scrolling on social media when what I really needed to do was knock off 15 things off my to do list. And now I'm even further behind. That's another one. I'm so behind, I'll never catch up. That's another thought that likely makes you feel overwhelmed. So number one, it's worth questioning the thoughts because they feel terrible. And number two, it doesn't work. Overwhelm doesn't create the output. It doesn't give you your desired result. It's not the best emotion. What I'm trying to say is it's not the best emotion to be operating from because it's so draining and it has most of us moving slower. And it's like when we're feeling overwhelmed, we can't access the part of our brain that's expansive and that thinks critically and solves problems and is able to come up with solutions to whatever it is that we're dealing with. Like, overwhelm doesn't do that. We're unable to operate from our highest self when we're feeling overwhelmed. So that's the second reason to question that thinking. And then the third thing, once you recognize what it is that you're thinking, which I've said, several of the thoughts that you're likely thinking that are making you feel overwhelmed, especially if you're like a chronic Overwhelmer or you're habitual like you have a habit of feeling overwhelmed, it's something that you feel a lot. The third thing is when you're not feeling overwhelmed, when you can kind of dissect and question those thoughts, it's to create a life and a day that you're less likely to feel overwhelmed. There's nothing wrong with you if you feel overwhelmed. Like, our world is designed right now in so many ways to make us feel overwhelmed. Anytime you go on social media it's so easy to think that everybody else has it all figured out and that you have to do it all and be everything to everyone all the time. And so if when you go on social media it is easy for you to feel overwhelmed, one of the things you can do is question what and who you are following on social media. Because while it's your thoughts that create your feelings and not any social media account, I totally like to curate and make it so easy for me to not feel overwhelmed in my everyday life by giving myself circumstances that make it very easy for me to think things like I got this, I can figure anything out. And you know what that means for me? That means not following any newsfeeds that are doom and gloom. I legit. I do not follow any newsfeeds that talk about the world being a dark place or all the bad that's happening in the world. And some of you might think that's I like you are fully welcome to think that and I'm still not going to follow like MSNBC or Fox News or any of the major news channels. I'm just not I don't like the amount of mind management that it takes for me to not feel overwhelmed when I follow those feeds. So you know what I follow? I follow Good News minute and I can't even remember all of them. Positive News Company, Good News brand and all of the ones that show dogs dressed up like pandas walking in to their owners place of work and just making their owners laugh. And I follow the story about the 98 year old father who has dementia and whose daughter is reminding him of what her tattoo represents and how it represents the time that they spent together in Hawaii or whatever. I just choose to follow those. I follow a lot of Taylor Swift stuff because I love seeing this powerful woman creating so much good in the world with her music and boosting the economy just by playing her songs to the world. I highly recommend that when you get on social media it's easy for you to feel overwhelmed, that you curate your social media feed to accounts that make it very easy for you to not feel so that make it very easy for you to feel positive and good and enough just as you are. And for a lot of you, that might mean, like, you unfollow some of the fitness people that you're following right now and that you unfollow some of the lifestyle blogs that you are following right now. Because if you're constantly thinking, my house will never look like that, I'll never be enough, then that takes so much mind management that I would just rather use in other areas of my life. I would rather manage my mind around other things than some lifestyle blogger that curates all of her posts to be beautiful. And that make it very hard for me to manage my mind around. So you can break that habit of being overwhelmed by creating a life that makes it very easy for you to think thoughts that don't make you feel overwhelmed because the world and life in and of itself are going to give you plenty of opportunities to do that. And so you don't have to create more by who you follow on social media. I realized as I was creating this episode, I'm like, I used to feel overwhelmed all the time. And I honestly can't remember the last time I felt like habitually overwhelmed, like to where it was like chronic, where I felt it on the daily, which used to be all the time. And I realized this is why. Because I make a lot of decisions ahead of time in my life and that reduces my decision fatigue, which reduces the opportunity for me to feel habitually overwhelmed. Let me give you a couple of examples. And these are not meant to be things that you have to do, but things that you can do that if you think that they might make it easier for you to not feel habitually overwhelmed. I like to plan my menu like a week in advance for my family. And it's very simple, very simple. Like I choose a protein and I choose a carbohydrate and I choose a vegetable. That's truly what I do. And I just make a list of six different meals and I plug them into my calendar. And if it comes to Tuesday, and then that means that I have all of the things on hand, right? Because when I go shopping, I make sure to add those things to the list. Most of which, by the way, we just naturally have because we eat very simply. And so I don't have a lot of random ingredients. I don't spend a lot of time in the kitchen anymore. I used to, I used to get a lot of fulfillment like being creative in the kitchen, which if that's you, I think that's fantastic. It's just not where my creative outlet is anymore. My creative outlet is much more like in this podcast and in my business. But needless to say, I create very simple menus and if on Tuesday when it says spaghetti is for dinner, I know I'm going to have all the ingredients because I've already planned that ahead of time before I went grocery shopping. And then if for whatever reason I'm like, oh, I don't feel like spaghetti, or I forgot we had noodles last night and I don't want to have noodles tonight, then I just bump spaghetti to a couple of days down the road and then I move up something else, chicken salad or whatever. Or if I am in the fridge and I'm like, oh, this bagged salad that I bought to go along with our dinner of chicken and rolls. It expires tomorrow, and I don't have it planned on the menu for three more days. I'm just going to bump it up to today so that we can eat it when it's still fresh. And then I'll put what we were going to have shrimp, scampi or whatever. I will put that, like, three days down the road because nothing in that meal is time sensitive. The way that this bagged salad is so simple, so I just can make less decisions in the moment. I do this with my wardrobe, too. Like, I keep my wardrobe simple, and my closet isn't crowded. In fact, as I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I could go through that closet again. I could go through it again and get rid of the clothes that I don't wear anymore. And I keep it very simple so that when I'm in the morning, when I'm getting ready, I don't have a whole lot of decisions to make about what I'm going to wear. Very simple, right? And same with in my kitchen. I like my kitchen. Like, I like everything to have a place. And so when I'm doing something as simple as unloading the dishwasher, everything has a place in my kitchen. So I don't spend any time thinking, where am I going to put this? Like, we have so much stuff. Where am I going to put this? That alone can create overwhelm. And I'm thinking, there's no space here. I don't have room for this. And then it goes into, like, I don't have time to be worrying about this, blah, blah, blah, all of that. So I make as many decisions as I can ahead of time, and I keep my life very simple so that there's just less room for overwhelm. We had a family over for dinner the other night, and they'd never been over to our home before. And the wife was like, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but you strike me as minimalists. And I was like, really? Tell me why? And she's like, you just don't have a lot of stuff, and clutter. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's by design. I don't know if I would call myself a minimalist, but I definitely don't have like, I am choosy about what we let into our home by way of furniture, food, appliances, like, stuff, because I know that there needs to be a place for it. I want there to be a place for it. And so I'm so much less overwhelmed because there's just space in my actual physical area, and it leaves there room for there to be, like, space in my mind. I even make decisions ahead of time in regards to things. Like, I'm a huge fan of the Peloton, and I ride my Peloton bike multiple times a week, and I just have a few instructors that I really like. So I always choose their classes and I choose them the night before. So in the morning, I don't even have to make a decision. Just like, oh, I've just already uploaded their class to my calendar. And then all I have to do, the only decision I have to make is, am I going to get out of bed right now? And then hitting start. That's it. That eliminates so much overwhelm. So as I leave you with this episode on Habitual Overwhelm, I want you to just consider where in your life can you make decisions ahead of time and eliminate decision fatigue? And also, how can you curate a life that helps you feel less overwhelmed because you're not always thinking things like, there's not enough time. I can't do all of it. Because reality is you can't. And when you give yourself the opportunity and the option to decide that you're choosing the life that you have right now on purpose, then you can decide if you want to keep choosing it or not. If you're working full time and you're taking care of the home and you're supporting your husband in his demanding career, you get to choose if you want to hold on to all of those things. I'm specifically thinking of the woman who has recently gone back to work or something like that. You don't have to choose all of it every time. You don't have to hold yourself to the same standard that you held yourself to when you were a full time mom and now you're working full time. You don't have to do that. And you can decide, do I still want to work full time? Do I want to spend my time in a different way? What do I want to let go of? Right? And then making those decisions on purpose and from the highest part of your brain, as I like to call it, from your thinking brain versus your overwhelmed brain, is going to be so much more effective than living in that habitual overwhelm. If you need help with this, please sign up for a take your turn strategy session and I will help you get started. Overcoming habitual overwhelm is my jam and I want for you to experience what I am experiencing, which is like not feeling overwhelmed all the time. It's amazing. It's so freeing. And I have so much more energy than I did when I felt habitually overwhelmed. And you know what I get to do with that energy? I get to spend it on the things and the people in my life that I really, truly care about. Because it doesn't matter how much you are there for your kids, if you're habitually overwhelmed, you might be there in person, but you're not there in spirit. And you don't want to miss out on that. So sign up for a consultation. Call with me.