Run the Numbers

How does a surf forecasting platform evolve into a multi-pronged company with B2C subscriptions, advertising, B2B SaaS, and even some hardware? Dustan Berg, former equity analyst and current VP of Finance at Surfline Wavetrak, Inc., joins CJ to discuss the evolution of Surfline's business model and the nuances of running this 40-year-old startup. Dustan explains the role of data as a moat and how Surfline navigates retention and increasing wallet share in a business model that’s tied to user identity. He also talks about some of the frameworks he uses to maintain focus on strategy and what he learned about asking the right questions from his days as an equity analyst.

If you're looking for an ERP, head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

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SPONSORS:

Pulley is the cap table management platform built for CFOs and finance leaders who need reliable, audit-ready data and intuitive workflows—without the hidden fees or unreliable support. Trusted by companies like Linear and Runway, Pulley helps turn ownership into a strategic advantage. Switch in as little as 5 days and get 25% off your first year: pulley.com/mostlymetrics.

Tabs is the AI-native platform automating contract-to-revenue for fast-growing finance teams. Whether you're working with custom terms, usage-based pricing, or hybrid sales models, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and late-night deadlines—giving you clean, automated revenue data from contract to cash. Companies like Cortex and Statsig trust Tabs to streamline invoicing, rev rec, and cash application. If you’re still closing the books like it’s 2015, it’s time for an upgrade: tabs.inc/metrics.

Tropic is an intelligent spend management solution that consolidates your spend data and processes into one unified offering, enabling insights and decisive action. From spotting hidden optimization opportunities to automating painful procurement workflows and giving you the best market data to turn vendor negotiations in your favor, Tropic combines smart insights with real human expertise to keep you ahead of the curve. Visit tropicapp.io/mostlymetrics to learn how.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

Subscript is a modern billing and revenue recognition platform designed for SaaS finance teams that need flexibility and accuracy. From automated invoicing and dunning to compliant, transparent revenue recognition and real-time analytics, Subscript eliminates manual work, reduces errors, and gives you a single source of truth for all your financial data. Book a free demo at subscript.com.

Rippling Spend is a spend management solution that handles your entire company’s spending in one unified system. It enables you to bring your corporate cards, expense management, bill pay, and more into one place to achieve real-time visibility and uniquely granular control with automated policy controls across every type of spend. Get a demo to see how much time your org would save at rippling.com/metrics.

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LINKS:

Dustan Berg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustan-berg-cfa-b7a58634/

Surfline:

https://www.surfline.com

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics:

http://mostlymetrics.com

—

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:34) Sponsor – Pulley | Tabs | Tropic

(08:18) How to Measure a Wave

(12:30) Intro to Surfline: A 40-Year-Old Startup

(16:36) Sponsor – Netsuite | Planful | Subscript | Ripling

(21:09) The Evolution of Surfline’s Business Model

(25:38) B2B SaaS and Hardware Versus Just B2C Subscriptions and Advertising

(28:01) Data as a Moat

(32:34) The Nuances of Running a B2C Model Versus a B2B Model

(35:07) Net Dollar Retention Versus Gross Retention

(39:18) How Surfline Defines an Active User

(40:22) Retention in a Business Model That’s Tied to User Identity

(43:41) Lessons on Asking Questions From a Former Equity Analyst

(45:38) Dustan’s Framework for Maintaining Focus on Strategy

(47:22) Talking About Business Versus Talking About Numbers

(51:05) Dustan’s Favorite Buffett or Munger Quote

(52:49) Long-Ass Lightning Round: A Formula Error on an Annual Plan

(54:00) Advice to Younger Self

(54:23) Finance Software Stack

(56:29) Craziest Expense Story

This is State of the Private Markets, a monthly series where we deliver the most compelling valuation, hiring, and revenue insights on pre-IPO candidates. Think of this as your backstage pass to the companies shaping the future before they hit the public markets.

Today we will cover:

* Valuation: The most valuable private tech companies

* Hiring: The fastest-growing teams

* Layoffs: Companies making cuts

* Sector Highlights: A deep dive into Data Infra, Design Tools, and Direct to Consumer sectors

* Company Spotlights: Updates on ScaleAI, SSI, and Revolut

Please give us five stars if you learned something today or had a laugh. It means a lot!

Irrespective of the numbers, financial storytelling and strategic communication play a massive role in influencing market perceptions. Hamza Fodderwala, Executive Director at Morgan Stanley, joins CJ to discuss the critical role of CFOs in shaping and communicating a company's financial story. Hamza explains the role of storytelling in driving stocks, the significance of aligning company narratives with prevailing market themes, the metrics that software investor analysts do and don’t want to see, the delicate balance of transparency in financial disclosures, and the art and science of giving good guidance. Hear how to balance long-term thinking with short-term market pressures and whether you should focus on managing expectations or results.

If you're looking for an ERP, head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

—

SPONSORS:

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

Subscript is a modern billing and revenue recognition platform designed for SaaS finance teams that need flexibility and accuracy. From automated invoicing and dunning to compliant, transparent revenue recognition and real-time analytics, Subscript eliminates manual work, reduces errors, and gives you a single source of truth for all your financial data. Book a free demo at subscript.com.

Rippling Spend is a spend management solution that handles your entire company’s spending in one unified system. It enables you to bring your corporate cards, expense management, bill pay, and more into one place to achieve real-time visibility and uniquely granular control with automated policy controls across every type of spend. Get a demo to see how much time your org would save at rippling.com/metrics.

Vanta's trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security and compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation. Over 9000 businesses use it to automate compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SOC 2 and ISO 27001. Centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk. For a limited time, get $1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com/metrics.

Tropic is an intelligent spend management solution that consolidates your spend data and processes into one unified offering, enabling insights and decisive action. From spotting hidden optimization opportunities to automating painful procurement workflows and giving you the best market data to turn vendor negotiations in your favor, Tropic combines smart insights with real human expertise to keep you ahead of the curve. Visit tropicapp.io/mostlymetrics to learn how.

—

LINKS:

Hamza Fodderwala on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamza-fodderwala-66997526/

Morgan Stanley:

https://www.morganstanley.com/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics:

http://mostlymetrics.com

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:03) Sponsor – NetSuite | Planful | Subscript

(05:54) Sell-Side” Versus “Buy-Side”

(07:34) Some of the Companies Hamza Covers

(08:23) The Role of Storytelling in Driving Stocks

(12:29) How CrowdStrike Turned Its Investor Narrative Around

(16:09) Sponsor – Rippling Spend | Vanta | Tropic

(20:11) What Sets Good CFOs Apart When It Comes to Storytelling

(23:57) The Metrics That Software Investor Analysts Want To See

(25:10) Does a CFO Need To Understand the Underlying Technology

(26:14) How Often a Company Can or Should Shift Its Narrative

(28:14) How To Retire a Metric Gracefully

(33:29) The Art and Science Behind Giving Good Guidance

(37:29) Metrics That Can Be Retired

(39:25) Separating Business Fluctuations From the Broader Economy

(42:57) Long-Term Thinking Versus Market Pressures

(46:33) Managing Expectations Versus Managing Results

(47:52) An Example of Where the Market Misread a Company’s Results

(50:01) Hamza’s Most Memorable Earnings Call

(51:52) Investor Days: Net Positive or Neutral

(54:00) The Buzzword Hamza Would Ban From Earning Calls

What's the real difference between a CFO and a COO? Can you do both roles simultaneously? And which title is more desirable from a career perspective? Today’s guest, Colin Sims, who is currently the CFO of Hunters but has held both titles multiple times, joins CJ to answer these questions and to talk about channel sales. They discuss what it takes to build a successful channel sales model and how companies need to “feed the channels" before expecting them to feed the company in return. You’ll hear about winning sales motions, what to look for in a CRO, and why transparency trumps democracy when it comes to business decisions.

If you're looking for an ERP, head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

—

SPONSORS:

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

Subscript is a modern billing and revenue recognition platform designed for SaaS finance teams that need flexibility and accuracy. From automated invoicing and dunning to compliant, transparent revenue recognition and real-time analytics, Subscript eliminates manual work, reduces errors, and gives you a single source of truth for all your financial data. Book a free demo at subscript.com.

Rippling Spend is a spend management solution that handles your entire company’s spending in one unified system. It enables you to bring your corporate cards, expense management, bill pay, and more into one place to achieve real-time visibility and uniquely granular control with automated policy controls across every type of spend. Get a demo to see how much time your org would save at rippling.com/metrics.

Vanta's trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security and compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation. Over 9000 businesses use it to automate compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SOC 2 and ISO 27001. Centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk. For a limited time, get $1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com/metrics.

Tropic is an intelligent spend management solution that consolidates your spend data and processes into one unified offering, enabling insights and decisive action. From spotting hidden optimization opportunities to automating painful procurement workflows and giving you the best market data to turn vendor negotiations in your favor, Tropic combines smart insights with real human expertise to keep you ahead of the curve. Visit tropicapp.io/mostlymetrics to learn how.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

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LINKS:

Colin Sims: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinjsims/

Hunters:

https://www.hunters.security/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics:

http://mostlymetrics.com

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:35) Sponsor – Planful | Subscript | Rippling Spend

(06:39) The Real Difference Between a CFO and a COO

(12:58) Why CFOs Are in Greater Demand Than COOs

(16:48) Sponsor – Vanta | Tropic | NetSuite

(22:21) The CFO-COO Hybrid Role

(23:39) Skills To Be a Good COO

(26:21) A Winning Sales Motion and the CRO

(32:07) Intellectual Curiosity and the Ability To Learn and Adapt

(34:48) CROs for Different Stages

(36:32) Channel Sales Models That Rely on Partners

(41:14) The Predicability of Channel Models

(44:24) Where Channel Sales Go Wrong

(47:05) The Different Types of Channels

(49:03) Transparency Works, Democracy Doesn’t

(54:27) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Hiring Mistakes

(55:56) Finance Software Stack

(58:02) Craziest Expense Story

Today we give the straight talk on the state of the economy that operators running tech companies need to hear. We cover:

* Ripple Effects: Even if your company doesn’t ship atoms, your customers probably do. Expect slower procurement, deferred renewals, and CFOs eyeing legacy tools.

* Investor Vibes: Market uncertainty = deal drag. Think longer diligence cycles, cautious boards, and DCF models sweating in real time.

* ERP Economics: When Nike gets budget clotheslined, your cloud spend might too. The trickle-down is real.

* Hiring Freeze Incoming: Some MBA grads might be ghosted before day one. And no, Nike won’t double hire next year to make up for it.

* Winners in the Wreckage: Recommerce, maintenance software, parts platforms, and demand planning tools could quietly shine.

* Finance Playbook: Monthly budget reviews, cautious hiring, flexible vendor contracts, and employee comms that treat folks like grownups.

* Operational Clarity: Turbulent markets are a great time to re-educate teams on “how we make money here.” Finance literacy = strategic clarity.

* Sponsor Shoutout: Gelt for Mostly Metrics—proactive tax strategy for high-growth CFOs who want more than just compliance. go.joingelt.com/mostlymetrics

Nick Rose, CFO of Enable, joins CJ to discuss one of the most overlooked yet powerful levers for growth, trust, and alignment in B2B commerce: rebates. They talk about how rebates are often dismissed as accounting clean-up or mistaken for discounts, but they are actually critical pricing incentives that foster long-term relationships. Nick describes how he first came to Enable as a customer and how it helped him uncover more than $7 million in missed rebates. He breaks down how rebates differ from discounts, how they can exceed net profit, and why manual rebate systems are so complex and inaccurate. Nick also explains how Enable is building a new SaaS category, and the importance of becoming a business’s top three priority as a SaaS platform.

If you're looking for an ERP, head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

—

SPONSORS:

Subscript is a modern billing and revenue recognition platform designed for SaaS finance teams that need flexibility and accuracy. From automated invoicing and dunning to compliant, transparent revenue recognition and real-time analytics, Subscript eliminates manual work, reduces errors, and gives you a single source of truth for all your financial data. Book a free demo at subscript.com.

Rippling Spend is a spend management solution that handles your entire company’s spending in one unified system. It enables you to bring your corporate cards, expense management, bill pay, and more into one place to achieve real-time visibility and uniquely granular control with automated policy controls across every type of spend. Get a demo to see how much time your org would save at rippling.com/metrics.

Vanta's trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security and compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation. Over 9000 businesses use it to automate compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SOC 2 and ISO 27001. Centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk. For a limited time, get $1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com/metrics.

Tropic is an intelligent spend management solution that consolidates your spend data and processes into one unified offering, enabling insights and decisive action. From spotting hidden optimization opportunities to automating painful procurement workflows and giving you the best market data to turn vendor negotiations in your favor, Tropic combines smart insights with real human expertise to keep you ahead of the curve. Visit tropicapp.io/mostlymetrics to learn how.

MUFG is the largest bank in Japan and a global banking powerhouse with a focus on empowering Growth and Middle Market stage companies in North America and Europe. MUFG provides comprehensive banking services for VC-backed, PE-backed, and public companies with revenues starting at $40M. The bank combines its global capabilities with deep operational understanding to help companies accelerate their growth trajectory. Contact group head Bob Blee at [email protected] to find out more.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

—

FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:18) Sponsor – Subscript | Rippling Spend | Vanta | Tropic

(07:22) From Geography Major to CFO

(10:44) How Nick Became an Enable Customer

(13:45) $7–8 Million in Missed Rebates

(17:01) Sponsor – MUFG | NetSuite | Planful

(20:27) Complexity in Manual Rebate Systems

(21:45) What Is a Rebate?

(26:07) Rebates Exceeding Net Profit

(27:30) Why Rebates Build Long-Term Relationships

(28:43) Trust and Rebates

(34:42) Channel Stuffing and Rebate Fraud

(39:59) Bringing Rebates and Pricing Together

(42:32) Rebates Versus Discounts

(43:23) The Challenges of Creating a New Category

(45:42) Becoming a Top Three Priority

(48:53) Investor Thesis and Network Effects

(51:08) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Bad Hiring Decisions

(54:25) Advice to Younger Self

(55:36) Finance Software Stack

(56:45) Craziest Expense Story

Russ D'Argento, CEO and founder of FINTRX, sits down with CJ in this episode to discuss building a Data as a Service (DaaS) business while also sharing insight into the highly lucrative world of family offices. He explains what a family office is (name a billionaire, they probably have one), their roles in wealth management, and how he identified this niche. He sheds light on FINTRX, what it does, and why building a verticalized data business for a niche market can be both exceptionally complicated and rewarding. He delves into the nuances of DaaS business models, what makes them different from SaaS, why it’s so important to own your own data, and the unique challenges one faces in a business like this. He also talks bout the fine art of workflow integration and how allowing customers to access FINTRX’s data in other APIs has been surprisingly beneficial.

If you're looking for an ERP, head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

—

SPONSORS:

Rippling Spend is a spend management solution that handles your entire company’s spending in one unified system. It enables you to bring your corporate cards, expense management, bill pay, and more into one place to achieve real-time visibility and uniquely granular control with automated policy controls across every type of spend. Get a demo to see how much time your org would save at rippling.com/metrics.

Vanta's trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security and compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation. Over 9000 businesses use it to automate compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SOC 2 and ISO 27001. Centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk. For a limited time, get $1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com/metrics.

Tropic is an intelligent spend management solution that consolidates your spend data and processes into one unified offering, enabling insights and decisive action. From spotting hidden optimization opportunities to automating painful procurement workflows and giving you the best market data to turn vendor negotiations in your favor, Tropic combines smart insights with real human expertise to keep you ahead of the curve. Visit tropicapp.io/mostlymetrics to learn how.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

Subscript is a modern billing and revenue recognition platform designed for SaaS finance teams that need flexibility and accuracy. From automated invoicing and dunning to compliant, transparent revenue recognition and real-time analytics, Subscript eliminates manual work, reduces errors, and gives you a single source of truth for all your financial data. Book a free demo at subscript.com.

—

FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:57) Sponsor – Rippling Spend | Vanta | Tropic

(07:23) What Is a Family Office

(11:49) Why Family Offices Are an Attractive Place To Grow Your Career

(14:06) Examples of Family and Multi-Family Offices

(18:04) Sponsor – NetSuite | Planful | Subscript

(21:13) The Founding Story of FINTRX

(23:38) What FINTRX Does

(25:02) The Data as a Service Business Model

(28:50) The Challenges of Starting a DaaS Business

(34:07) Broad Versus Narrow in DaaS

(37:57) Building FINTRX’s Ideal Customer Profile

(42:20) Sourcing Your Own Data Versus Partnering With Others

(46:09) Hiring for Engineering and Data Science

(51:07) Using FINTRX’s Interface Versus Accessing the Data in Another Tool

(1:02:26) Advice for Someone Launching a DaaS Business

(1:02:02) A Habit That Russ Swears By as a Founder

(1:03:24) A Lesson From Something That Went Awry

Everyone loves talking about finding product-market fit. But what if the real challenge in 2025 is keeping it?

In this solo episode, I riff on why PMF has become more fleeting than ever. I unpack what Harry Stebbings, Jason Lemkin and Rory O’Driscoll observed —companies that once had a five-year runway now fall out of PMF in five weeks. We explore AI-fueled growth curves, the myth of “escape velocity,” and why today's go-to-market edge can vanish overnight.

I also shares a brutal hill from a recent road race (and the startup metaphor it unlocked), plus a text exchange with a growth investor on the hunt for vertical SaaS alpha.

If you’re an operator, investor, or CFO trying to understand the new physics of scaling, this one’s for you.

Run the Numbers is sponsored by Gelt.

You already know tax season isn’t just a deadline—it’s a lever.

At Gelt, they work with CFOs who aren’t just looking to stay compliant—they’re looking to unlock strategic value from their tax position. Think: optimized entity structures, real-time visibility across complex ownership, and proactive tax planning that actually moves the needle on cash flow.

Gelt gives you quarterly strategy check-ins and proactive estimates, all designed to lower your effective tax rate, protect equity value, and drive long-term efficiency. You get direct access to your Gelt CPA and a clean, modern platform to track it all.

Learn if you qualify at go.joingelt.com/mostlymetrics and schedule a call to learn more.

In this episode, CJ sits down with Rob Paterson, CFO of Employment Hero, to talk about smart growth, why not all revenue is good revenue, and Australia's startup scene. They start by discussing when to turn down growth opportunities and which financial metrics are more distracting than helpful. Rob explains the challenges of holding people accountable when you are a growth CFO and how to be a Chief Reality Officer instead of a “CF-No”. He offers a view into the Australian startup ecosystem, highlighting what sets it apart, the challenges local founders face, and why global expansion from day one is a must. Rob also outlines his approach to forecasting and cost control, including how he applies the 80/20 rule to revenue, before sharing a wild fraud story from his auditing days.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

—

SPONSORS:

Vanta's trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security and compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation. Over 9000 businesses use it to automate compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SOC 2 and ISO 27001. Centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk. For a limited time, get $1,000 off of Vanta at vanta.com/metrics.

Tropic is an intelligent spend management solution that consolidates your spend data and processes into one unified offering, enabling insights and decisive action. From spotting hidden optimization opportunities to automating painful procurement workflows and giving you the best market data to turn vendor negotiations in your favor, Tropic combines smart insights with real human expertise to keep you ahead of the curve. Visit tropicapp.io/mostlymetrics to learn how.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

Subscript is a modern billing and revenue recognition platform designed for SaaS finance teams that need flexibility and accuracy. From automated invoicing and dunning to compliant, transparent revenue recognition and real-time analytics, Subscript eliminates manual work, reduces errors, and gives you a single source of truth for all your financial data. Book a free demo at subscript.com.

Rippling Spend is a spend management solution that handles your entire company’s spending in one unified system. It enables you to bring your corporate cards, expense management, bill pay, and more into one place to achieve real-time visibility and uniquely granular control with automated policy controls across every type of spend. Get a demo to see how much time your org would save at rippling.com/metrics.

—

FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:18) Sponsor – Vanta | Tropic | NetSuite

(07:06) Not All Revenue Is Good Revenue

(14:09) Metrics: Overrated and Underrated

(16:14) Sponsor – Planful | Subscript | Rippling Spend

(20:18) Lifetime Value (LTV)

(20:11) Vertical and Horizontal P&L

(21:27) Chief Reality Officer: Holding People Accountable

(24:37) Staying Approachable as a CFO

(26:04) The Australian Startup Ecosystem

(27:28) What Sets Australian Startups Apart

(29:39) Going Global on Day One

(31:47) The Remote-First Superpower

(32:52) Competitiveness and Tall Poppy Syndrome

(35:24) Mastering the 80/20 Rule

(39:17) Building Strong Management

(41:32) Long-Ass Lightning Round: The Fraud Story

(46:10) Finance Software Stack

(47:06) Craziest Expense Story

Rick Smith, multi-time CFO, founder of Bonfire Advisory, and author, joins CJ to discuss the complexities and nuances of the CFO role in venture-backed companies. They delve into the dynamics of the CEO-CFO relationship and examine the qualities CEOs think they want in a CFO versus what they need. Rick introduces the concept of “The triangle of doom” that exists between the CEO, the CFO, and the board, and how to navigate situations when forced to pick sides. Having been a CFO of five different organizations across industries and stages, Rick then explains how he categorizes company stages relating to CFO needs. As the founder of Bonfire Advisory, Rick talks about how founders can set themselves up for financial success before they need a full-time CFO and breaks down some of the most common mistakes early-stage companies make.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

—

SPONSORS:

Tropic is an intelligent spend management solution that consolidates your spend data and processes into one unified offering, enabling insights and decisive action. From spotting hidden optimization opportunities to automating painful procurement workflows and giving you the best market data to turn vendor negotiations in your favor, Tropic combines smart insights with real human expertise to keep you ahead of the curve. Visit tropicapp.io/mostlymetrics to learn how.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

Subscript is a modern billing and revenue recognition platform designed for SaaS finance teams that need flexibility and accuracy. From automated invoicing and dunning to compliant, transparent revenue recognition and real-time analytics, Subscript eliminates manual work, reduces errors, and gives you a single source of truth for all your financial data. Book a free demo at subscript.com.

Rippling Spend is a spend management solution that handles your entire company’s spending in one unified system. It enables you to bring your corporate cards, expense management, bill pay, and more into one place to achieve real-time visibility and uniquely granular control with automated policy controls across every type of spend. Get a demo to see how much time your org would save at rippling.com/metrics.

Vanta's trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security and compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation. Over 9000 businesses use it to automate compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SOC 2 and ISO 27001. Centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk. For a limited time, get $1,000 off of Vanta at vanta.com/metrics.

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FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

LINKS:

Demystifying the Role of the CFO in Venture and Growth Stage Companies - https://www.amazon.com/Demystifying-Role-CFO-Venture-Companies/dp/B0DS9KF2C8

Rick Smith on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rick-smith-906939/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:13) Sponsor – Tropic | NetSuite | Planful

(06:49) The Challenges of the CFO-CEO Relationship

(12:59) What CEOs Think They Want in a CFO Versus What They Need

(17:46) Sponsor – Subscript | Rippling Spend | Vanta

(21:21) Hatred of Failure and Personal Accountability

(24:38) Establishing Trust With a New CEO

(28:21) Navigating Ethics When the CEO Is Dishonest

(32:54) Picking Sides Between the Board & CEO

(36:42) How To Exit When You Disagree With the CEO

(38:19) Categorizing Company Stages

(41:21) Why Early-Stage Companies Should Have Fractional CFOs

(43:51) Common Mistakes for Early-Stage Companies

(48:49) The Types of CFOs You Need at Different Stages

(53:14) What Rick Likes About Working With Series A and B

(54:54) Rick’s Book

(57:15) Anecdotes From Rick’s Career

(01:00:47) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Leases

(01:04:49) Advice to Younger Self

(01:05:38) Rick’s Recommended Tech Stack

(01:08:54) Craziest Expense Story