In episode 158, Kestrel welcomes Jordan Nodarse, the founder and Creative Director of Boyish Jeans, to the show. While Jordan recently founded Boyish in 2018, he's been around the denim scene for years — having been behind the launch of Reformation's first denim collection, as well as Revolve's GRLFRND denim.

"I always tell people — it's all about progress, not perfection. You're never going to be 100% sustainable. Even when you feel like you're 100% sustainable, you can always be more efficient. And the environmental impacts are always going to be evolving to become better and better, so you always have to evolve." -Jordan Nodarse, Founder of Boyish

On this week's show, Jordan shares more on what first got him into denim — trying to make his own jeans. Being a musician at the time, Jordan wanted to have jeans that looked more like Bryce Springsteen in the era of bootcut, so he cut out the inseam of vintage jeans and altered them to get the look he was going for.

Kestrel + Jordan also discuss more of the intricacies of what sustainability means to Boyish, how it's always evolving, and how important it is for Jordan to use his brand to help educate shoppers.

The below thoughts, ideas + organizations were brought up in this chat:

• Refibra by Lenzing, fabric that Boyish uses

• ZDHC (Zero Discharge Of Hazardous Chemicals); company Boyish works with that audits them regularly

• OEKO-TEX; Boyish works with them to help certify their factory

• Intertek; Boyish works with them for auditing

• The HIGG Index

• BCI Cotton + GOTS Certified Organic Cotton, Boyish has their mill only purchase one or the other, to ensure their cotton is traceable. They also request transactional certificates for everything, and do their best to buy consistently from their suppliers.

• PP (potassium permanganate): one of the harsh chemicals often used to distress denim. Jordan says it can easily be replaced by using natural cold water reactive enzymes.

• Tonello, more sustainable garment-finishing machines that Boyish uses

• Solar Sister, nonprofit Boyish donates to through 1% For The Planet

• Stashers, cool company that makes a silicone-based replacement for ziplock bags