In Episode 329, Kestrel welcomes Jennine Jacob, a personal stylist and Instagram phenom, to the show. You may know Jennine from viral videos that explore the many layers of nuance connected to the power of finding your own style.

“Anytime I see people quote unquote dressing for their body type, those outfits that look good, they can all be explained through style principles. The rule of thirds, contrast, proportion, texture, color theory. So why do we have to attach a value to a person's body shape when that's not even necessary? I really want to call into question why we use certain language because there's a lot of dismissal of visual language not just in fashion but also in the arts and architecture, and in the spaces that we move that have tremendous impact in how we navigate the world.” -Jennine

MARCH THEME — PERSONAL STYLE IS SO MUCH MORE THAN *VANITY*

This month, we’re shifting the narrative a bit toward the conversation around style. I recently did a post on Instagram about why I post daily outfits and how it’s not about vanity, and instead – it’s about storytelling, sustainability and branding. It resonated so much with folks and made me feel optimistic amidst a time that can be pretty gloomy lately.

I talked about the power of knowing the stories connected to your garments and how that storytelling can come through in the way you wear them. I talked about how when you have intimate connections with your garments, you tend to take care of them so they last longer. I talked about how identifying your personal style is a key part of building your brand, and honing in on the colors you consistently wear can play into determining or realizing your aligned visual identity. 

I even mentioned the whole “fashion is frivolous” annoying narrative, and how it’s totally ridiculous considering how much your clothing choices do actually truly matter. Turns out, that’s one of the many topics we crack open with this week’s guest. 

• “Is The Internet Messing With Your Style?”, IG reel Kestrel mentions

• “The Power Dynamics Of Comfort”, IG reel Kestrel mentions

• “Quiet Luxury Helps The Oligarchy”, IG reel Jennine mentions

• “Focus in on not just how you want to look, but what you want to say with your style, and why you want to say it.” (40:06) -Jennine

• Jennine’s Website

• Follow Jennine on Instagram

In Episode 328, Kestrel welcomes Dana Zhaxylykova, an environmental scientist & microplastics researcher, to the show. Originally from Kazakhstan, Dana is currently based in Germany — through her Instagram platform, she shares practical and actionable tips about microplastics through a scientific lens.

“As a scientist, I want to assure you that every little action in avoiding plastic, it can have an impact. And as scientists and as a scientific community, we expect people, not only the governments and corporations (they have a huge responsibility, of course), but we as people, we also can have an impact as individuals, we can help these problems to get solved faster.”-Dana

This month, we’re focusing on diverse ways to combat fast fashion. I don’t know about you, but whenever I think of fast fashion, my brain automatically goes to issues around MICROPLASTICS.

Considering that over 60% of global fiber production is synthetic materials – derived from fossil fuels – it’s hard not to make that connection, especially given some of the intimate experiences I’ve had watching scientists from 5 Gyres literally collect microplastics from the water and air around us, and hear them talk about how so many of the microplastics they collect have come from fabric and clothing. 

As this week’s guest highlights, with nylon, polyester and acrylic fabrics flooding the fast fashion market, these fibers are actually releasing microplastics in every stage of the process – from production, to wearing the garments, to washing and drying them. Basically, there are microplastics being shed into our environment from every single stage of a fast fashion garment’s lifecycle.

That feels overwhelming, I know, but I love how this week’s guest really puts things into perspective, not only from a scientific lens, but also from a practical hands-on point of view, offering us suggestions on the things we can actually control, when it comes to microplastics in our lives. 

• “Seasonal variation and removal of microplastics in a central Asian urban wastewater treatment plant”, Dana’s research paper

• “Effect of microplastics deposition on human lung airways: A review with computational benefits and challenges”, paper Dana mentions

• “Environmental exposure to microplastics: an overview on possible human health effects”, paper Dana mentions

• “Effects of microplastic exposure on human digestive, reproductive, and respiratory health: a rapid systemic review”, paper Dana mentions

• “Polystyrene microplastics exacerbate systemic inflammation in high-fat diet-induced obesity”, paper Dana mentions

In Episode 327, Kestrel welcomes Sanchali Pal, founder and CEO of Commons, an app that rewards you for living and spending sustainably. On Commons’ app, you can get rewarded for shopping sustainable brands and for taking climate actions like thrifting, taking public transportation or eating plant-based.

“When people think about the actions they can take that are sustainable, the most obvious ones are things like flying less or recycling or eating more plant-based. People don't always think about their clothing habits, but I think that's really changing with the conversation around fast fashion. I mean, the fashion industry has a greater environmental impact than the airline industry. It's like two to three times as much, which is pretty crazy. And so it is really exciting to start to see that conversation happen and start to think through what part we can all play in shifting that industry together.” -Sanchali

FEBRUARY THEME — DIVERSE WAYS TO COMBAT FAST FASHION

This week’s episode is brought to you in collaboration with Commons. As a cohost of their Anti Fast Fashion Challenge, I’m stoked to share more about how you can get involved to boycott (in many different ways) harmful fast fashion brands this month.

While it can be challenging to fathom, especially being so deep within the sustainability and fashion conversation, fast fashion is booming. From the H&Ms and Zaras, to the more recent addition of ultra fast fashion brands like Shein and Temu, our culture is addicted to fast fashion. From the cheap prices to the convenience factor to the instant gratification, the allure of fast fashion is real.

But as many of you know, buying fast fashion comes with an intense environmental and human impact. 

Fast fashion aligns itself with disposability and waste, boasting crazy low prices. The materials are predominantly synthetic and often lose their shape after a couple washes. The synthetic materials shed loads of microplastics into the environment. Garment workers face exploitation and non-livable wages. All the while, social media and marketing continue to drive us to think we need another new piece of clothing to stay relevant.

It’s a lot. And that’s why I am so excited for this conversation – and to be cohosting this month’s Anti Fast Fashion Challenge. A way for us all to collectively come together to challenge that intense urge to buy another cheap item, and instead – not shop, mend something, get something tailored, shop secondhand, or invest in a brand that centers sustainability.

• “Our spending is the best data source we have on our emissions.” (14:26) -Sanchali

• “It Starts At Home?” — research Sanchali mentions on household spending

• Join The Anti Fast Fashion Challenge

• Commons Sustainable Spending Tool / Brand Ratings 

• How Commons Rates Brands 

• Commons Website

• Listen To The Second Nature Podcast

• Follow Commons on Instagram

In Episode 326, Kestrel welcomes Anna Bario, the cofounder of Bario Neal, to the show. Bario Neal creates stunning jewelry while being committed to respecting human rights and environmental sustainability. Anna cofounded the brand alongside Page Neal, in 2008, with an interest in bringing sustainability into the discourse surrounding creativity, fine jewelry and craft. An exceptional designer and also a specialist in responsible gold and gemstone sourcing, Anna’s work in sustainable initiatives and social impacts defines the framework for Bario Neal’s ethical jewelry roadmap.

“I think [for] jewelry especially, the investment question becomes entangled with presentation … we also see that culturally come through jewelry trends. Just like in fashion, pant legs get shifted and there’s so many ways we could interpret that as a reflection of the culture. And in jewelry, after the 2008 recession, jewelry got really small. Part of that was because of what people could afford, but also it was sort of like socially, what do we want to present?”-Anna

JANUARY THEME — EXPLORING THE NUANCE AROUND INVESTMENT PIECES

This episode is part of a partnership with Bario Neal. One of the pieces included in this collab was a redesign of my wedding and engagement rings. If you’re wondering why I would redesign my wedding rings? They felt a little too traditional for my aesthetic, especially as I’ve matured, and also – the prong setting of the lab grown diamond just wasn’t practical – it was always getting caught doing all the things connected to mom life.

In this episode, we not only get an intimate look behind the scenes of what building an ethical jewelry roadmap means to Bario Neal, we also dive deeper into this month’s theme of investment pieces. 

One thing Anna brings up that is such an important and often left out layer of this discussion is how “investment” in the jewelry space can easily become entangled with the performance of economic resources and privilege. In jewelry, and other areas of fashion as well, this can mean the designs showcase a blatant reflection of the economic realities around us at any given time. For example, when the economy isn’t doing well, often, jewelry trends will reflect that in favoring smaller stones and more quote unquote modest styles. And even if folks have the economic means to choose something with a higher price point or bigger stones, they may choose not to, based on what they feel comfortable presenting to the world in that moment of time. We unpack this and more in this special jewelry-focused episode.

• Turning To Stone, book by geologist Marcia Bjornerud that Anna mentions

• Mercury Free Mining Website

• Ethical Methalsmiths Website

• Bario Neal’s Website

• Follow Bario Neal On Instagram

This week’s episode is brought to you in partnership with Bario Neal, a jewelry industry leader in ethical sourcing and progressive manufacturing.

GET 15% OFF PERSONALIZED JEWELRY WITH CODE CONSCIOUSCHATTER15 AT BARIO-NEAL.COM

In Episode 325, Kestrel welcomes Emily Fenves, the founder of lander line - a platform she created in September 2021 - after feeling burnt out with her own consumption habits. As a regular shopper, Emily found herself spending an exhaustive amount of time browsing, buying, returning, and purging. She embarked on a journey to learn more about the “why” behind her overconsumption, and decided to help others do the same.

“I think a lot of people assume that investment pieces mean luxury. For me, specifically, I always think about – can I pass this down to my daughter? Investment pieces can be secondhand, too. Whether I’m shopping new or secondhand, I’m always asking myself that question – is this something I can pass down to her?” -Emily

JANUARY THEME — EXPLORING THE NUANCE AROUND *INVESTMENT PIECES* 

This month, we’re going all in on – investment pieces. What does that really mean? Well, that’s one of the aspects we unpack. But if you google around and start diving into the discussion online, you’ll find a lot of people talking about things like: LONGEVITY, JUSTIFYING HIGHER TICKET ITEMS, HIGHER QUALITY, HIGHER COSTS, and EVERGREEN STYLES.

We touch on cost per wear, the idea of fewer better things, and recommendations when you’re searching for investment pieces. 

It’s also personal – so remember to take that into account as you listen to this week’s guest. What you deem an investment piece may not necessarily be what someone else identifies as an investment piece – and to me, that’s some of the fun of it.

Speaking of this week’s guest – she self identifies as a former overconsumer-turned-fair-fashion-advocate who loves secondhand and influencing others to quit fast fashion.

• RealReal’s 2024 Resale Report

• lander line’s Substack

• Follow Emily on Instagram

Episode 324, Kestrel welcomes Camille Forde, a mother and entrepreneur working at the intersection of business, sustainability, and community-centered solutions, to the show. With over a decade of experience, Camille has led corporate responsibility efforts at top professional services firms, earned an MBA from UC Berkeley with a focus on sustainable business, and spearheaded seller and brand partnerships at one of the largest fashion resale platforms. As a mother of two, Camille is deeply committed to building a more equitable and sustainable future that prioritizes community care.

“Vulnerability, at least for me, it’s a practice. It’s not: you’re vulnerable once, and then you’re done. I’ve had to make being vulnerable a regular practice that I chase even though I don’t want to all the time.” -Camille

OCTOBER THEME — MAYBE VULNERABILITY IS WHAT FASHION REALLY NEEDS

Last week, I got vulnerable. I shared a lot about my personal story over the last year – the challenges I’ve faced, personally with my health, professionally, financially, with continuing to push an independent media platform forward – I’d say I shared a lot in a short amount of time. 

It blew me away to see the response – so many folks reached out, shared their personal challenges, and were vulnerable with me about things they’ve faced. I don’t know – it felt like it opened a bit of a portal to somewhere new. To a more connected realm, where we could actually be honest with each other. A place where we could not only talk about transparency being important in supply chains and messaging, but also in our personal lives and realities. 

It felt big. And I want to thank you for allowing that real emotion in, and sharing your own vulnerabilities – because as this week’s guest reminds us, so often what we receive with vulnerability is GROWTH (not in production volume, but in ourselves).

This episode is really about a lot of challenges I’ve faced, mental struggles I have grappled with, and questions I’ve asked myself while working at the intersections of caring for people and the planet, and caring for my own child. 

When I was thinking about this episode idea as a way to build on this vulnerability discussion, one mom stood out immediately. I thought – I want to talk to Camille about this - it’s who I want to hear from, who I want to learn from, and I just felt like she would have a lot of valuable insight into these crossovers. 

Turns out, Camille went beyond. This episode is about sustainability, but not your typical approach to that conversation. It’s about caring for yourself, for your family, for your community, while building things that center care.

• “The perfectionism and shaming that happens both in motherhood or just parenthood and the sustainability space — it’s just beyond.” -Camille

• “The reality is we’re not going to be perfect at any of it, but you know, if you’re not careful, there’s so much shame that can enter the conversation and really slow you down.” -Camille

• Camille’s Website

• Follow Camille on Instagram

Episode 323 features Kestrel (just me!) in the first-ever solo episode of the show. With a primary focus on vulnerability, Kestrel shares some of the rollercoasters she has faced personally over the last year (from health to finances), why she and Nat are parting ways when it comes to regularly hosting the show, the true costs of producing a podcast, as well as a question on whether performative vulnerability is what we are seeing too often from the industry.

“To all of you interested in sustainable fashion or those of you who work in the industry - I want to ask you a question: are you ok!?”-Kestrel

OCTOBER THEME — MAYBE VULNERABILITY IS WHAT FASHION REALLY NEEDS

As you can see, Nat is not here. It’s super bittersweet, as doing the show hand-in-hand with someone I love, a best friend, and someone I admire deeply was truly magical. At the same time, realities happen, things shift, and sometimes what you anticipate doesn’t actually work out in the end. 

Being honest about the journey is, and always has been important to me.

Nat is amazing as many of you already know. Moving forward, she won’t be cohosting with me on a regular basis, but she will jump back in as a guest or cohost on the show on and off down the line. 

I know this might be confusing for you since there have been a lot of shifts on and off throughout the year. First of all, thanks for sticking around, for caring deeply about the show, and believing in the potential power of change in the fashion space.

This episode is all about vulnerability — I hope you can feel my hope to tear down some of the curtains that often separate us for connecting on a deeper level. 

Here’s what you'll hear from me:

• A bit about my person health stuff I’ve gone through over the last year

• Why it wasn’t possible for Nat and I to continue co-hosting together - hint, hint: independent media is hard

• A little insider info on what it costs to run a podcast 

• Some musings on whether it’s possible for the sustainable fashion / fashion realm as a whole to get vulnerable and what that could look like

Episode 322 features Nelson ZêPequéno, a Ghanaian-American Artist and the founder of Black Men With Gardens and Sustain Creative, alongside Cayetano Talavera, a fiber artist, zero waste fashion designer, and the creative force behind HECHO BY CAYE.

Through ‘Black Men With Gardens’, a digital and print publication, Nelson spotlights the connection Black and Brown communities cultivate with nature through agriculture and the arts. He further exploring cultural identity and environmental stewardship through his Los Angeles-based studio 'Sustain Creative', his current body of works offer a fresh perspective on sustainable contemporary design.

Based in Los Angeles, Cayetano transforms foraged plants, homegrown flowers, insects, and even food waste into natural dyes, for his designs in the cocina de su mamá. His journey into the world of sustainable design was shaped by his humble upbringing, where he discovered the importance of resourcefulness and waste reduction.

“Creativity is a way of looking at life differently, and by stepping outside of the way that we’re seeing life or our own perceptions and experimenting, we’re able to open up those new neural pathways and to reach these new places in life. For me specifically, I like to think that creativity is actually the solution not only to the mental health crisis that we’re all dealing with, but to actually the sustainability challenges that we’re facing. We need to embolden creativity in our culture and our communities so that people can look at the challenges that we have and come up with different ways of approaching it. We can’t essentially just fix the problems that we face now with the same thought processes that led us here, and the only way to get outside of that actually is to be creative.” -Nelson

“The rhythmic movement that comes from making a craft — I find it to be very therapeutic. Whether it’s stirring a dye pot, painting strokes, I think also just the physical aspect that goes into being creative plays a role in ... it’s almost like you get so into what you’re creating that you kind of escape from your worries and anxieties for a bit. Once I start working, I totally forget whatever is going on around me, even if it’s for a split second. I am always encouraging people to just be creative; and don’t let the insecurities take over. I host natural dye workshops and a lot of adults tend to be like ‘but this isn’t for me’; ‘my tie dye bandana is going to come out super ugly’. And I’m like "‘no, everyone’s piece ends up looking really good and unique in their own way’. And so I think there’s fear that comes from being creative and I think people need to get over that hurdle first.” - Cayetano

MAY THEME — CONNECTING WITH NATURE TO UNVEIL WAYS TO REIMAGINE FUTURES

Narratives today often separate humans from nature – think of statements like “we need to protect nature” as if we aren’t a part of nature. But we are. Even though we often live and spend a lot of time inside buildings somewhat “separated” from nature, we are still intrinsically linked and woven into the natural world around us.

As we have learned through so many of our guests this season, being connected to the world around us is not something new – it’s something that has been cultivated by Black and Brown Indigenous communities across the world through culture and tradition and a reverence for the ecosystems that we as humans are a part of.

This week’s guests both interact with nature through their unique creative avenues – in very different yet overlapping ways. One works more directly with *fashion* through sewing and natural dyes, and the other not so directly with fashion but rather with plants and repurposing.  The myriad of ideas they share remind us of the many things we can learn from nature (when we slow down enough to listen). 

What can fashion learn from nature to reimagine a better today and a more thoughtful tomorrow?

Fashion folks, nature is calling, and it’s time we tune in …

Links from the conversation:

• Hecho By Caye Website

• Sustaining Creative Website

• Fast Fashion AD on SNL that Kestrel mentions

• Follow Nelson on Instagram

• Follow Black Men With Gardens on Instagram

• Follow Cayetano on Instagram

Episode 321 features Teju Adisa-Farrar, the founder and co-creator of the Black Fiber & Textile Network and the creator/host of the Black Material Geographies podcast, alongside Layla K. Feghali, the founder of River Rose Remembrance, a Plantcestral & Ancestral Re-Membrance practitioner, cultural worker, author & story re-collector (archivist).

Teju is currently the Director of Outreach & Programs for the Fibers Fund, and co-creates with members of BFTN. Layla’s book, The Land In Our Bones, showcases an exploration of the herbs & land-based medicines of Lebanon & Cana’an, highlighting the power of culture’s relationship with land. 

“I think of culture as a way of relating to your environment, including those around you, making sense & beliefs based on your environment, & creating a sense of a shared identity based on the place that you are in. With the creation of colonialism & the transatlantic slave trade, and this very globalized neoliberal world, now culture is less connected to a place & more connected to what and how we consume.” -Teju

“I feel like that relational way of existing or of relating is kind of what ultimately yields or inspires I guess what folks would call a sustainable way of navigating things. Because it requires a conversation beyond the self and with the entirety of the living world that I dwell in and that I’m a part of and that I impact and that impact me, and the ways that they’re alive.” -Layla 

MAY THEME — Connecting With Nature To Unveil Ways To Reimagine Futures

As the sustainability conversation continues to evolve, we often will hear mention of regionality, or the importance of thinking more locally in supply chains or manufacturing. While this is a great aspect to explore further, it only touches the surface of the depth connected to geography, location and place. This week’s guests each approach education and storytelling through place-oriented lenses. While they are each uniquely different, these geography-oriented avenues teach us so much about what is often missing from the conversation.

As we’ve explored through various angles this season, culture is integral to sustainability. Our guests this week shed light on the many ways that culture can teach us about land, history and legacy. How understanding the land, its history and the cultures woven into it, can lead us toward restorative justice and regenerative practices. As one of our guests so beautifully writes in her book:

“The real focus of sustainability should be to recenter these Indigenous technologies rooted in multigenerational relationships to place, and teach younger generations how to harvest in ways that ensure the life of these plants will not only continue but spread per this ancestral knowledge.”

Links from the conversation:

• Teju’s Website

• Black Fiber & Textile Network

• River Rose Remembrance Website

• Follow Teju on Instagram

• Follow Layla on Instagram

Episode 320 features Wafa Ghnaim, a Senior Research Fellow at The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Curator for the Museum of the Palestinian People and Founder of The Tatreez Institute, alongside Dr. Tanveer Ahmed, a Senior Lecturer in Fashion and Race at Central Saint Martins and also Course Development Lead for MA Fashion and Anthropology at London College of Fashion.

“Inherently, just by being Palestinian and by teaching about Palestinian life and history, and including oral history in my work as a foundational aspect of my research, I am threatening these kinds of structures, in and of itself. And so, simply my existence is resisting that colonialism and the normalization of destruction and death of Palestinian bodies.” -Wafa

“Translating lots of decolonial thought around the canon and Eurocentrism and what shapes our ideas of art and design is really crucial to understand how we then deconstruct the canon. It’s not just a question about changing reading lists or to me, about representation and bringing in more Black and Brown academics into our institutions, although that is part of the equation. I think what we need to do and what I think is the most important role for me is to undue the harms that coloniality has done to our disciplines and within our institutions.” -Tanveer 

APRIL THEME — COMING TOGETHER TO BUILD A BETTER FASHION FUTURE

Decolonizing fashion, intersectionality, identifying the knowledge holders, cultural inheritance and systems change were some of the key themes we explored in this week’s episode. We take a look at some of the areas that fashion educators are dismantling when it comes to heteronormative and Eurocentric views on fashion education and design. And how this knowledge can translate from the classroom or across cultural communities into practical ways. Building off of our last episode, we question – what are the biggest challenges we still face and how can we work toward more transformation? 

We learn from one of our guests that this focus and lens on decolonising fashion where marginalization and othering is built into the foundation, is very different to the offerings of cultural preservation, which holistically exists to share lived experience, pass over craft practice, history, culture and honor the hands and bodies of the people at the center of this. As our guest shares, what else is there if we cannot honor the people preserving culture. Fashion as it exists, still has a ways to go in embracing this at its roots, but our guests give us hope as they move through the world, sharing their wisdom and truth, and teaching us the meaning of how to be good custodians and stewards, so we can uphold this legacy with care and intention and continue to center Indigenous craft, culture and practice. 

Links from the conversation:

• Tatreez & Tea Website

• Tanveer’s Work Profile

• Follow Wafa (@tatreezandtea) on Instagram