Dr. A.J. Swoboda (Ph.D., Birmingham) is an associate professor of Bible and Theology at Bushnell University and lead mentor for the Doctor of Ministry Program on Spiritual Formation and Soul Care at Friends University. He is the author of many books, including The Gift of Thorns (Zondervan), After Doubt (Brazos), and the award-winning Subversive Sabbath (Brazos). He lives and works on an urban farm with his wife and son in Eugene, Oregon.

In this podcast conversation, we talk about the content of his forthcoming book The Gift of Thorns. We discuss the nature of desire, how our desires play into discipleship, how saying "no" to our wants actually increases our joy, the therapeutic benefit of communal confession of sin, the pleasure of self-denial, why we need more slow thinking/writing on tough topics, and how we can become incapacitated over all the books and articles and "things" we feel like we need to know.

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