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Science of Math: The movement everyone's talking about with Sarah Powell (Ep. 65)
In this episode, Anna is joined once again by Dr. Sarah Powell, a professor at the University of Texas at Austin whose research focusses on supporting students with math difficulties. They respond to a recent NCSM statement criticizing the Science of
Math movement.
Anna and Sarah unpack what the Science of Math is and why high-quality evidence matters. They address misconceptions about explicit instruction and “one-size-fits-all” teaching and explore why math instruction deserves the same scientific scrutiny as reading instruction. This episode is a must-listen for educators, school leaders, policymakers, and parents navigating the current math education landscape.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction and an overview of the NCSM statement
[00:10:25] What is the Science of Math?
[00:12:07] Is this only about special education?
[00:14:24] Math learning through the general lens of learning science
[00:17:19] Is the Science of Math equivalent to the Science of Reading?
[00:20:01] The instructional hierarchy applies to learning anything
[00:24:07] The same groups tried to discredit What Works Clearinghouse
[00:26:30] Responding to claims about research citations
[00:29:49] Addressing the NCSM’s claims about quantitative research
[00:31:21] Why quantitative research and data matter
[00:38:24] Why alignment with IES and What Works Clearinghouse is a strength, not a flaw
[00:40:18] Importance of measuring learning
[00:42:59] Strange statements about an impoverished pedagogical approach
[00:47:30] Misconceptions about explicit instruction
[00:51:25] Is there quantitative data that supports mixed approaches or inquiry?
[00:55:20] Does explicit instruction fundamentally minimize learners' autonomy?
[00:56:32] Final Claim: The one-size-fits-all teaching method
[00:58:04] Problems with the phrase “math wars”
[00:59:59] Why is there such strong resistance to The Science of Math?
[01:02:51] Final Thoughts
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Reading and math: Parallels and pitfalls with Matt Burns
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6
Red flags in education research with Ben Solomon
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-cp5xt-156072c
Science of Math with Amanda VanDerHeyden
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bksbz-13c732d
Supporting students with math difficulties with Sarah Powell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-ciqgm-17def6b
The power of explicit instruction with Anita Archer
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-93dcw-19a3530
Mailbag: Building Thinking Classrooms, number talks, & more with Zach Groshell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-stw9g-186807f
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-65-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-65-resources
MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
View all episodes
By Anna Stokke
4.8
7878 ratings
In this episode, Anna is joined once again by Dr. Sarah Powell, a professor at the University of Texas at Austin whose research focusses on supporting students with math difficulties. They respond to a recent NCSM statement criticizing the Science of
Math movement.
Anna and Sarah unpack what the Science of Math is and why high-quality evidence matters. They address misconceptions about explicit instruction and “one-size-fits-all” teaching and explore why math instruction deserves the same scientific scrutiny as reading instruction. This episode is a must-listen for educators, school leaders, policymakers, and parents navigating the current math education landscape.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction and an overview of the NCSM statement
[00:10:25] What is the Science of Math?
[00:12:07] Is this only about special education?
[00:14:24] Math learning through the general lens of learning science
[00:17:19] Is the Science of Math equivalent to the Science of Reading?
[00:20:01] The instructional hierarchy applies to learning anything
[00:24:07] The same groups tried to discredit What Works Clearinghouse
[00:26:30] Responding to claims about research citations
[00:29:49] Addressing the NCSM’s claims about quantitative research
[00:31:21] Why quantitative research and data matter
[00:38:24] Why alignment with IES and What Works Clearinghouse is a strength, not a flaw
[00:40:18] Importance of measuring learning
[00:42:59] Strange statements about an impoverished pedagogical approach
[00:47:30] Misconceptions about explicit instruction
[00:51:25] Is there quantitative data that supports mixed approaches or inquiry?
[00:55:20] Does explicit instruction fundamentally minimize learners' autonomy?
[00:56:32] Final Claim: The one-size-fits-all teaching method
[00:58:04] Problems with the phrase “math wars”
[00:59:59] Why is there such strong resistance to The Science of Math?
[01:02:51] Final Thoughts
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Reading and math: Parallels and pitfalls with Matt Burns
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6
Red flags in education research with Ben Solomon
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-cp5xt-156072c
Science of Math with Amanda VanDerHeyden
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bksbz-13c732d
Supporting students with math difficulties with Sarah Powell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-ciqgm-17def6b
The power of explicit instruction with Anita Archer
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-93dcw-19a3530
Mailbag: Building Thinking Classrooms, number talks, & more with Zach Groshell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-stw9g-186807f
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-65-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-65-resources
MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
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