This week we invited two additional guests to tackle this tender and challenging topic. Ruth and Steve are joined by Pastor Tina Harris, a former pastor and lawyer and currently Transforming Center’s Cultivator of Community and Connection, and Pastor Marvin Williams, the pastor of Trinity Church in Lansing, MI, and a doctoral candidate doing his work in Systems Theory in Non- Majority spaces. These four pastors and teachers sit down to discuss whether Systems Theory is just a white person thing. They touch on code switching as it pertains to differentiation and the difference between chronic anxiety and real trauma, particularly generational racial trauma. They wonder what happens when majority culture is spreading an anxiety that non-majority culture has to carry, and how can System Theory help us to manage our anxiety and do better in the conversations around race that we so desperately need to have right now? This conversation is honest, challenging, and ultimately, hopeful.

Mentioned in this episode:

A Failure of Nerve by Edwin Friedman

Steve Cuss Resources:

Steve’s website

Managing Leadership Anxiety, Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss

General Resources for Systems Theory:

Season 9 Episode 6 of the Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership Podcast

Season 9 Episode 7 of the Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership Podcast

Family Systems and Congregational Life: A Map for Ministry by R. Robert Creech

Lombard Mennonite Peace Center

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin H. Friedman

Extraordinary Relationships: A new Way of Thinking about Human Interactions by Roberta M Gilbert

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

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The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self!