Secularism is conventionally understood to be the separation of state and religion. However, according to the Indian Constitution, citizens are governed by differing sets of personal laws that depend upon their religion. What, then, is the meaning of Indian secularism? Turkey and France are both secular countries with no official state religions. At the same time, wearing a fez became illegal in Turkey in 1925, and wearing a hijab within public school premises was banned in France in 2004. If the state interferes in matters of religion, is a country truly secular? In this episode of All Things Policy, Rohan Pai and Shreya Ramakrishnan discuss these difficult questions by analysing the history of secularism, and its various, often paradoxical, definitions across time and geography.