Welcome back to the Grey Dynamics Podcast! Today, we are talking to John Atwell. John spent over twenty-three years of experience in operational and analysis roles at the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Since leaving the agency, John has spent time as a consultant, become a columnist for the Haiwaii-Tribune Herald, became editor of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers and a college lecturer at Haiwaii Community College. We discussed the culture shift in CIA after 9/11, views on allied and adversarial agencies around the world, advice for a career in intelligence and much more.

Find John Atwell:

• LinkedIn
• The Island Intelligencer on Substack

We Spoke About:

• 0:32 - John Atwell’s background
• 4:59 - What made John suitable for an operational role at CIA?
• 9:10 - The shift towards paramilitarism at CIA after 9/11
• 12:21 - Will CIA return to its pre-9/11 culture with its focus back to strategic targets?
• 15:04 - CIA and diversity
• 19:40 - Which international intelligence agencies was John impressed by during his career?
• 21:31 - Thoughts on adversarial intelligence agencies
• 23:44 - The growing use of intelligence and counter intelligence by non-state actors
• 26:56 - Is the swing to OSINT, geospatial and cyber at the detriment of HUMINT?
• 29:38 - Why John did not join the private sector after leaving the intelligence community
• 32:06 - John on working with his wife at CIA
• 33:08 - What advice would you give someone who wants a career in intelligence?
• 35:59 - Ahmed’s career journey
• 40:51 - Cultural Recommendations

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