Shifting Culture

On Shifting Culture, we often ask: what does it mean to follow Jesus in the complexity of our world? In this episode, John Fugelsang helps us press into that question with clarity and urgency. John is a comedian, actor, and political commentator shaped by the unlikely pairing of parents who were once a nun and a Franciscan brother. His new book, Separation of Church and Hate, takes an unflinching look at how fundamentalism and nationalism have twisted Christianity into a pursuit of power. With sharp wit and thoughtful insight, John contrasts that distortion with the radical humility and compassion of Jesus - the one who welcomed the stranger, lifted up women, broke cycles of violence, and modeled a way beyond empire. This conversation is provocative and grounding, inviting us to imagine how the way of Jesus might still break the cycles of fear and hate in our time.

John Fugelsang has been killed on CSI, picketed by Westboro Baptist Church, and hosts the acclaimed series "Tell Me Everything" on SiriusXM #127. He's been a regular on CNN, MSNBC & FOX News, appears in Coyote Ugly, hosted America’s Funniest Home Videos once got George Harrison to give his final performance on VH1. He's the child of an ex-nun and an ex-Franciscan brother, and his book SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND HATE: A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists and Flock Fleecing Frauds releases from Simon & Schuster in Summer 2025.

John's Book:

Separation of Church and Hate

John's Recommendation:

Superman

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What happens when the church trades the way of Jesus for the way of empire? In this episode of Shifting Culture, I talk with theologian and activist Drew Hart about his latest book, Making It Plain. We trace the long history of Christendom, the Doctrine of Discovery, and the legacies of white supremacy that continue to shape American Christianity today. But this isn’t just a conversation about what went wrong. Drew offers a hopeful vision he calls Anablactivism - a merging of Anabaptist discipleship and the prophetic witness of the Black church. Together we explore how these traditions, born on the underside of oppression, can help us recover a faith that looks like Jesus: rooted in solidarity, committed to justice, and pursuing God’s Shalom in our neighborhoods and the world. If you’ve wrestled with Christian nationalism, wondered how to disentangle faith from power, or longed for a discipleship that takes Jesus seriously, this conversation will both challenge and inspire you.

Rev. Dr. Drew G. I. Hart is an associate professor of theology at Messiah University where he has directed the Thriving Together: Congregations for Racial Justice program in central PA since 2021. He co-hosts Inverse Podcast with Australian peace activist Jarrod McKenna and is the author of Trouble I've Seen: Changing the Way the Church Views Racism (2016), Who Will Be A Witness?: Igniting Activism for God's Justice, Love, and Deliverance (2020), and he co-edited and contributed to Reparations and the Theological Disciplines: Prophetic Voices for Remembrance, Reckoning, and Repair (Nov. 2023). His newest book is Making It Plain: Why We Need Anabaptism and the Black Church (September 2, 2025). Drew regularly speaks at colleges, conferences, churches, and community groups across the country. He is married to Renee and is the father of three sons.

Drew's Book:

Making it Plain

Drew's Recommendations:

God's Apocalyptic Insurrection

The Lamb of the Free

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Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist Trymaine Lee joins Shifting Culture to talk about his new book A Thousand Ways to Die and the true cost of violence in America. Known as a griot of Black survival and death, Trymaine has spent decades reporting on the lives and communities most affected by gun violence. But when he suffered a sudden heart attack at just 38, he was forced to reckon with the weight of the trauma he had carried in his body and in his family’s history of generational loss. In this conversation, Trymaine traces the roots of America’s cycles of violence back to slavery, systemic racism, and disinvestment, showing how those forces still shape families and neighborhoods today. He also shares how identity, mentorship, and joy can disrupt the cycle, and why nothing stops a bullet like dignity, opportunity, and love. This episode is heavy, but it’s also filled with hope. Because as Trymaine reminds us, there may be a thousand ways to die, but there are also a thousand ways to live.

Trymaine Lee is a Pulitzer Prize and Emmy award winning journalist and MSNBC contributor. He’s the host of the “Into America” podcast where he covers the intersection of Blackness, power, and politics. A contributing author to the “1619 Project”, he has reported for The New York Times, the Huffington Post, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune. A Thousand Ways to Die is his first book.

Trymaine's Book:

A Thousand Ways to Die

Trymaine's Recommendation:

James

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Prayer can be more than quiet reflection — it can be protest, solidarity, and a catalyst for justice. In this episode of Shifting Culture, I talk with Liz Theoharis and Charon Hribar about their new book We Pray Freedom, a collection of prayers, songs, and liturgies born out of the Freedom Church of the Poor.

We explore how faith traditions can sustain movements, how ritual can become resistance, and how communities on the margins are leading us toward a more just and abundant world. From prayer in homeless encampments to liturgy at the border, this conversation invites us to see that prayer isn’t escape — it’s action, hope, and transformation.

Rev. Dr. Liz Theoharis is a theologian, pastor, author, and anti-poverty activist. She is the Executive Director of the Kairos Center for Religions, Rights, and Social Justice and Co-Chair of the Poor People’s Campaign: A National Call for Moral Revival. Rev. Dr. Theoharis has been organizing in poor and low-income communities for the past 30 years. Her books include: We Cry Justice: Reading the Bible with the Poor People’s Campaign (Broadleaf Press, 2021) and Always with Us?: What Jesus Really Said about the Poor (Eerdmans, 2017) and she has been published in the New York Times, Politico, the Washington Post, Sojourners and elsewhere. Rev. Dr. Theoharis is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA) and teaches at Union Theological Seminary.

Dr. Charon Hribar is a movement song leader, cultural organizer, and social ethicist. She serves as the director of cultural strategies for the Kairos Center and as co-director of theomusicology and movement arts for the Poor People's Campaign: A National Call for Moral Revival. She cofounded Songs in the Key of Resistance and has been instrumental in creating music and cultural resources like the Songs in the Key of Resistance Songbook and the We Cry Justice Cultural Arts Project. Dr. Hribar combines on-the-ground organizing with teaching and leading social-movement music nationwide, empowering communities to integrate arts into their efforts for justice.

Liz and Charon's Book:

We Pray Freedom

Liz and Charon's Recommendation:

Andor

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When the world feels uncertain and fear threatens to overwhelm, how do we stay rooted in faith? In this conversation, theologian Hanna Reichel joins me to talk about the new devotional For Such a Time as This. We explore what history - especially the lessons of Germany a century ago - can teach us about resilience, discernment, and Christian witness today. Hanna helps us see that faithfulness doesn’t always look the same: sometimes it’s public protest, sometimes it’s small acts of solidarity, sometimes it’s simply choosing joy. Together, we reflect on how to find calm in the storm, how to discern wisely, and how to live with hope in anxious times.

Hanna Reichel is Charles Hodge Professor of Systematic Theology at Princeton Theological Seminary. Reichel earned their Dr. theol. in Systematic Theology from Heidelberg University, Germany, after an MDiv in Theology and a BSc in Economics. Prior to coming to Princeton, they taught at Heidelberg University and Halle-Wittenberg University in Germany. Reichel is also a research fellow at the University of the Free State, Bloemfontein, South Africa.

An internationally renowned scholar and widely sought speaker, Reichel has authored three monographs, co-edited nine collected volumes, and published several dozen scholarly articles. Reichel’s first book, Theologie als Bekenntnis: Karl Barths kontextuelle Lektüre des Heidelberger Katechismus reframes Barth as a contextual theologian through his repeated engagements with this Reformed confession over the course of his life. The book received the Lautenschläger Award for Theological Promise and the Ernst Wolf Award. Reichel’s second book, After Method: Queer Grace, Conceptual Design, and the Possibility of Theology has been widely celebrated for building bridges between Queer-liberationist and Reformed-Systematic sensibilities, as well as constructively introducing design theory into conversations about theological method. Reichel’s newest book, For Such a Time as This: An Emergency Devotional is directed at a wider audience, offering a timely resource for ordinary Christians seeking to live faithfully in extraordinary times of societal upheaval and political fragility.

Hanna's Book:

For Such a Time as This

Hanna's Recommendation:

On Tyranny

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The story of Christianity is full of paradox—spaces of violence and division becoming arenas of hope and redemption. In this episode, I sit down with priest and author Fergus Butler-Gallie to talk about his book Twelve Churches, which traces the history of Christianity through twelve remarkable church buildings across the globe. From Bethlehem to Birmingham, Rome to Japan, these spaces reveal the comedy and tragedy, unity and division, beauty and brokenness woven into the Church’s story. Together, we explore how these places still point us back to Jesus and what they teach us about power, authenticity, and hope in a fractured world.

Fergus Butler-Gallie is an author, journalist, and an ordained Anglican priest who was educated at the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge and has served in London and Liverpool. He is the author of A Field Guide to the English Clergy, which was named a Best Book of the Year by The Times (London), The Mail on Sunday (London), and BBC History; Priests de la Resistance!, which was a Spectator Best Book of the Year; Touching Cloth; and Twelve Churches. He is Editor-at-Large for The Fence, and his journalism has appeared in publications including The Times (London), The Guardian, The Daily Telegraph (London), Financial Times, and The New Statesman (UK). He won the 2022 P.G. Wodehouse Society (UK) Essay Prize.

Fergus' Book:

Twelve Churches

Fergus' Recommendation:

The Man in the Red Coat

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Natalie Runion returns to Shifting Culture with her new book I Don’t Even Like Women: And Other Lies That Get in the Way of Sacred Sisterhood. Behind the provocative title is a deeper story: how the church has too often handed women scripts of competition, gossip, and scarcity and how those scripts can be rewritten into something truer and freer. In this conversation, we talk about identity, trust, and the work of forgiveness. We explore what women’s ministry has been, and what it could become when collaboration replaces competition, when community is rooted in abundance, and when Jesus’ vision of sacred sisterhood begins to take hold. This isn’t just about women’s ministry. It’s about how all of us, men and women, learn to build communities that dignify rather than diminish.

Natalie Runion is the USA Today bestselling author of Raised to Stay and The House That Jesus Built, as well as the creator of the Raised to Stay Community (@raisedtostay). She lives in Kentucky with her husband, Tony, and their two daughters, where they work together to provide training to leaders in pursuit of a healthy church.

Natalie's Book:

I Don't Even Like Women

Natalie's Recommendations:

Becoming the Pastor's Wife

Crushing Chaos

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What story are you living in? In this episode, Trevin Wax joins me to explore how the church can root itself more deeply in the story of Scripture. We talk about The Gospel Way Catechism, the ancient practice of catechesis, and why discipleship is more than just memorizing truths - it’s learning to walk in the way of Jesus. Along the way, Trevin shares why true freedom is found in submission to God, how cultural narratives like the American Dream can subtly reshape our faith, and why the global church is vital for our own spiritual health. This conversation invites us to reexamine the stories shaping us and to rediscover the flourishing life Jesus offers.

Trevin Wax is vice president of research and resource development at the North American Mission Board and a visiting professor at Cedarville University. A former missionary to Romania, Trevin is a regular columnist at The Gospel Coalition and has lectured on Christianity and culture at Oxford University. His new book is The Gospel Way Catechism.

Trevin's Book:

The Gospel Way Catechism

Trevin's Recommendation:

The Years of Lyndon Johnson

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What if healing doesn’t happen in isolation, but only in community? In this episode Toni Collier talks about her new book Don’t Try This Alone and the hard-won lessons she’s learned about vulnerability, resilience, and the necessity of others in our journey toward healing. Toni shares her story of brokenness and betrayal, the seasons of hopelessness she’s endured, and how confessional community became the place where God met her through the presence of others. We wrestle with questions of trust, forgiveness, church hurt, and what it takes to build relationships that reflect the love and presence of Jesus.

Toni Collier is the founder of an international women’s organization called Broken Crayons Still Color and helps women process through brokenness and get to healing and hope. Toni is a speaker, host of the Still Coloring podcast, and author of two books: Brave Enough to be Broken and her latest release, a children's book, Broken Crayons Still Color. Toni is teaching people all over the globe that you can be broken and still worthy, or feel unqualified and still be called to do great things.

Toni's Book:

Don't Try This Alone

Toni's Recommendations:

Good Boundaries and Goodbyes

Forgiving What You Can't Forget

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What does it look like to seek justice when the problems seem too big to solve? In this episode, sociologist and justice advocate Kurt Ver Beek shares his journey from the Midwest to the front lines of Honduras - moving into one of the country’s most violent neighborhoods, confronting systemic corruption, and helping lead a nationwide police reform that saved thousands of lives. We talk about the power of proximity, the importance of alliances, and what it means to be a brave Christian - willing to act in the face of fear. Kurt reminds us that even the most complex issues can have practical solutions, and that God’s heart for the most vulnerable is still calling us to action.

Kurt Ver Beek is the co-founder of the Association for a More Just Society (ASJ). He taught as a professor of Sociology for Calvin University, where he directed the Honduras Justice Studies semester with his wife Jo Ann for 20 years. He is the author of Call for Justice, co-written with Christian philosopher Nicholas Wolterstorff.

The book that tells the story:

Bear Witness

Kurt's Recommendation:

Little America

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