Smart Cleaning School

Smart Cleaning School

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Smart Cleaning School episodes

  • My Greatest Ideas have Never Come from Being Busy

    I brought my friend Vincent Pugliese into the SMART Cleaning Tribe that I facilitate in July as an expert to share mindset on building a life of Total Life Freedom. We covered many topics, but one connected more than any other. It was the concept of quieting your brain. Listen to the podcast for the full discussion. I'll share a few points he made while talking with Lizzie Strohl of Lebanon Cleaning Crew out of Lebanon, MO.

    "It's easier to work 60 hours than to work 40 hours. I used to be that way, but you miss a lot. You the miss the ideas and you miss the creativity. Because if you can give yourself that time to relax and quiet your brain, and slow your body down verses always doing something... My greatest ideas have never come from being busy. I can get more work done by doing work, but the ideas that will grow everything that you're doing come from quiet. And when you don't allow yourself to be quiet, you'll just continue to do more work."

    Since this expert call, our Tribe members have really taken this quiet time as a challenge. Jenn and Michelle decided to do a daily accountability and share ideas. Kate gets ideas right before waking up, coming out of her dream state. She started writing notes on a pad next to her bed when she wakes up. Plus, she has her phone with her while enjoying her favorite past-time of kayaking. Ellen has blocked off 2-3 pm every day to float around in her pool. She keeps her phone on a raft nearby on 'Do Not Disturb' mode and ready to write down any ideas. Ellen shared on a recent Tribe call that this simple investment of time is creating tremendous ideas. She brought one of them to the call and we had a blast brainstorming with her. This one idea could launch an entirely separate business, allowing Ellen to create the passive income she would love to create. She recognized there were common complaints in house cleaning and may have discovered a way to fix one of them! It's exciting, but I can't share it. Vincent was right. "My greatest ideas have never come from being busy."

    16 min
  • Two Generals

    In a recent solo cleaning business update, "Slow Down to Speed Up ", I invested 45 minutes in the driveway talking to potential clients. I answered all of their questions and even walked one through a series of questions to use to interview other cleaning services. Her name is Meghann. She hired me for an initial cleaning last week and it went splendid. Meghann was very impressed and wanted to get quotes for a recurring service either biweekly or monthly. I provided those prices within a day. By the end of last week, we agreed on a monthly recurring service for $160. Yay! It pays to slow down. I invested 30 minutes on the phone and it turned into $2,200 in revenue over the first 12 months!

    I've shared the story of Tom and recycled computer parts for my son and that he hired me for biweekly office cleaning. This week, Tom decided to shut down his office again through COVID and drop cleaning to monthly. No big deal. I'm flexible and my proposal has this exact line in it. Tom was grateful.

    "Contracts: Carfagno Cleaning, Inc DOES NOT require contracts. Our word is our bond.  Keep us as long as you're happy! But please, let us know if you ever feel something was  missed. A contract-free service allows you to switch between cleaning options as needed."

    Here are some marketing-related activities from last week. My wife noticed that a local restaurant was looking for cleaning and forwarded the message to me. I immediately recognized it as Sammy's Bullfrog Cafe in Harleysville, a place where I've already submitted a proposal for biweekly cleaning. I thought this would be a good time to reach back out to the owners and say hi. It was no surprise that they asked me to send a requote and if I cleaned kitchens. I replied no to the restaurant kitchens, but resent my original proposal. I got a call from Heather for a biweekly cleaning, thanks to a referral from my realtor BIB group friend Mary Ann Alig. I took my time with Heather and gave her a bunch of information to share with her husband. Lastly, I completed the proposals for the owner of a local cafe, Pam, and the Skippack Animal Hospital! I was really proud of myself as I took my house and office cleaning proposal templates to the next level.

    Now, it's time to get to the title of this episode. Susan Sloan is a fellow member of my MCBA networking group. She owns Real Health Quotes and recently partnered with her husband Tom on video interviews with local businesses to serve her clients. It's quite ingenious as she can bring experts from various industries to add value to her clients and it brings word-of-mouth power to the experts like myself. We have been trying to schedule this interview since February and finally got it done! Susan prepped me well for two short pieces, where Tom had varying camera angles. The first interview was geared to equip workers and small business owners to go back to work safely with respect to cleanliness. The second interview geared toward moms at home dealing with homeschooling and how to get the kids involved in the cleaning of the house. They were a lot of fun to create. 


    Read the rest of this article at the Solo Cleaning School website

    12 min
  • How Much Do You Charge, Ken?

    I published the article, "Did you Know Cleaning has a Specialist Too?" for Carfagno Cleaning and sent it out as my weekly newsletter. I want to read you this article as it will help you understand WHY I earn more per client than others. 

    I also want to thank my fellow BIB member and insurance agent, Andew Rumbold of the R.A. Fraser Group for asking me the follow-up question "What is a Level 4 Specialist"? Andrew, that's an amazing question and here's my answer. I believe that the highest level one can attain in a craft or discipline is one of the teacher. You cannot teach what you haven't done. Thus, the teacher is higher than the doer. I labeled Level 2 and 3 as the experts in the science and art of cleaning and therefore labeled myself a Level 3 Cleaning Specialist. But thanks to Andrew, I am changing my label to the teacher and Level 4 Cleaning Specialist. I teach the science and art of cleaning to you listening to this podcast, to my students in the Solo Cleaning School Elite Membership, and my local community through newsletters, network meeting presentations, and webinars. I am a Level 4 Cleaning Specialist and like the doctors and surgeons from the medical field earn the most... so do I! 

    There is a Level 0 Cleaner too! I call them "Aunt Sally" cleaners. They are sweet ladies who live down the street or clean part-time while in college or raising kids. They are uninsured, under-the-table & non-compliant on taxes, and come with HIGH-risk of getting you in trouble if something goes wrong.

    I wanted to lay this out before sharing my prices. 

    • My House Cleaning Prices: I currently clean houses on a biweekly (every other week), monthly, and bi-monthly (every other month) basis. I've cleaned in Upstate New York for 13 years and the Philly Area for 2 years. Over the past 3 - 5 years, my houses have ranged in price from $150 to $300 per visit and $150 to $250 for just the biweekly.
    • My Office Cleaning Prices: Janitorial companies dominate this industry. They are large with many employees and typically clean large buildings multiple nights per week. I don't compete here! I'm a Level 4 house cleaner that has taken my specialty into cleaning smaller offices on a weekly, biweekly, or monthly basis. My current offices range in price from $200 to $1,500 per month (weekly offices from $500 to $1,500).

    Here are some tips I offer prospects on my website and conversations to help them overcome price concerns:

    • If you are looking to spend less than the prices I charge, I recommend finding a Level 1 cleaner. Do NOT be lured into a Level 0 Aunt Sallie option. They will cost half as much as my Level 4 prices, but the risks are too high especially in this post-COVID environment.
    • Most families budget on a monthly basis. An excellent Level 3/4 cleaning service like mine can keep your home cleaned with more excellence once per month than a Level 0/1 cleaning every other week. A biweekly Level 1 cleaning at $100 costs $216 per month. You can invest that same amount into a Level 4 monthly cleaning and "feel" better because higher quality can be felt.
    • I don't do contracts for homes or offices, allowing clients the flexibility to switch their cleaning frequency as needed.

    If you found this useful, I encourage you to join our Elite Membership for the Solo Cleaning School for $50 per month!

    21 min
  • Get Your Name Out There

    This is a follow up to "Top of Mind" as I walk through 3 examples of how I get my name out there. Also, make sure to listen to the "Go for No" episode before this one! If you didn't listen yet, stop, and go back! It's hard in the beginning to do this as you fear what others will think of your new cleaning business. I promise you. It gets easier the more you do it. The next mindset you need is one of service and helping others. Getting your name out isn't greedy or self-serving. There are people right now that need exactly what you offer. You would be selfish to hold it back. Therefore, have courage and overcome the fear. Share your knowledge and your business and let God work out the rest. That's what I do. Here's the examples that happened my solo cleaning business over the past 2 weeks.

    1. I mentioned this on "Slow Down to Speed Up" This week, I resubmitted a proposal to an office prospect Drew at Town Supply. I have put myself out there to 100 people each and every time I send an email campaign with something of value to my local community. Over the past weeks, I've been teaching on building trust with your new cleaning service. Well... Drew must have connected as he opened my previous emails multiple times and the one from last week 23 times! I knew it was time to reconnect. He asked for the new proposal, sharing all of the details of what they pay the company they chose over me. I put myself out there and it could turn into a $5,000 per year new office!
    2. During COVID, I put myself out there and offered to help my chamber run virtual webinars. This lead to more trust between my company and my chamber leadership. Our president, Steven Hunsberger, offered for me to lead a webinar on how to disinfect properly and return to work back in April. Here's that presentation! A few weeks ago, Steven asked if I'd be interested in a showcase interview on me and my company. I said YES! Steven emailed me the questions. I answered them all and supplied some pictures. That showcase went out this week to 300 members via email and I'm amazed at the outcome. My friend and client, Dennis Gehman, along with my chamber ambassador Scott Little emailed me to congratulate me on a well-done showcase piece. Pam owns a local cafe and loved my showcase. She emailed me through my website and wanted to set up an estimate. We spoke over the phone and I took my time (obviously.... Slow Down to Speed Up). During the phone call and in-person interview, Pam asked for other references. I mentioned Dennis Gehman and Evan Gehman (from my BIB and they are not related). She knew both well and it helped a ton. This speaks volumes to the networking I've been doing over the past year! There is a great chance Pam will hire me as a new recurring biweekly house cleaning client!
    3. I put myself out there to meet with the realtors in my networking groups 1-to-1 to get to know them better and share how I can help them. This strategy adds my name and business to their list of preferred cleaning vendors. I got a call this week from Ginny who needed cleaning ASAP. It was a long shot and I wasn't available. I asked how she found me. Her realtor gave her my number and told her to call. I never even met the realtor. They just knew me because I was recommended by their office, thanks to one of my realtor meetings!


    Read the rest of this article at the Solo Cleaning School website

    13 min
  • Go for No

    You need to read the book, "Go for No". It's recommended on my 'Resources' page! I first read this book in 2007.

    It taught me that No is not the opposite direction from Yes. In fact, it's on the way to it! Once I got that, my brain shifted 180 degrees. I was still fearful to talk to people as an introvert, but I lost the biggest reason for the fear. This book lays this out. Most people assume that getting a No to your offer is failure and Yes is success. That's wrong! Getting No's is a part of the process to get Yes's. If I got 1 Yes every 10 times, it meant that it took me 9 No's to get 1 Yes. Thus, No (and many of them) was on the way to Yes and success. I also learned that failure was not trying at all or giving up. This totally gave me freedom and removed a lot of my fear!

    Once I got the paradigm shift, I was able to start evaluating and tracking my No's and Yes's until I knew how many No's it took me to get a Yes. As an example, I used to get 7 No's before a Yes. When I got the first No, I kept going through No and No and No. I was excited to get my Yes, but then kept tracking my No's. Over time, it took less No's to reach my Yes. Today, I get 2-3 No's before a Yes. I'm telling you! This book is a game-changer! Read it!

    12 min
  • Slow Down to Speed Up

    We need to stop trying to rush everything. I do have a goal and teach optimizing and getting faster at cleaning. However, I DO NOT rush the marketing and new client process. I take a lot of time to connect with potential clients. This pays off as I understand the trust building process. I have a few examples from this week in my own solo cleaning business. Let me paint the picture first. I was gone all day cleaning houses. While I cleaned, two messages came through for cleaning inquiries. I could have answered them, but it would hurt my optimizing times as the distraction would cause me to lose momentum. Plus, I wouldn't be on top of my game to give full attention to the prospects. I took voicemails. When I got home, I stayed in my car for 45 minutes. My wife and kids wanted me to come in and see them. Teresa didn't know why I was sitting in my car for so long, but she gave me the space. I was making an investment. During this 45 minutes, I returned 2 phone calls and took my time.

    • One found me highly recommended on the HVL Moms group. She wants 1-time cleaning and recurring. I answered all of her questions as she's never had service before. My advise was to interview companies and ask these questions: Do you have $2M of General Liability? Are you state and tax compliant? What is your COVID protocol? What is your knowledge and expertise with disinfecting? She called back the next day and hired me for the 1-time job and likely the recurring.
    • The second call was referred by Berkshire Hathaway as a 1-time renter-ready cleaning. I gave a ballpark of $250-$500. This prospect was very interested and could hire me.

    Take your time with your trust-building and client on-boarding process. This will accomplish some vital wins for you. You will attract the right clients that will pay your prices. Over the long haul, this will set your solo cleaning business up for success in optimization. Look my own business forming up. I am averaging $175 per visit per house and the national average is $125! My clients hire me once and keep me a long time. They are grateful, pay on time, and turn into good friends. That's what I wanted. What about you? Slow down with your phone calls and explain what you do, why you do it, when you can do it, and how much it will cost them. In these two examples, I answered all of their questions including price. Plus, I built trust with both by equipping them on what questions to ask other cleaners they interview. Ultimately, this lead Meghann to hiring me for a 1-time cleaning for $250 and will likely turn into a recurring client worth $2,500 - $5,000 per year. Was the 45 minutes of slowing down worth it? You be the judge.

    Let me hit some other highlights from my last two weeks building my new solo business. First of all, it's super cool to be attending my networking meetings in person again. At my MCBA group, I shared my overview of cleaning in a post-COVID world. Plus, I connected with fellow member Mike Thompson of Envoy Mortgage who hired me for biweekly cleaning. We confirmed our first cleaning for the end of the week. I showed up on Friday and impressed him! He asked how I got the metal sink so clean and my answer was simple. "It's all cleaning science!" This is my fourth biweekly house! At the BIB meeting, I was given the opportunity to do a short showcase on my business. I shared the TACT model of cleaning, which stands for Temperature, Agitation, Chemistry, and Time. I taught how to clean. It raised my level of cleaning in the group as I taught this.


    Read the rest of this article at the Solo Cleaning School website

    20 min
  • Safeguard Your Clients

    I've been cleaning homes since 2006 and have noticed a dramatic increase in home security as technology improves. Alarms have gone from wired to wireless. Cameras surveil various angles and locations of the home. Garages have keypads. Families are more secure than ever and they can do so at an expense less than it used to cost. This happens so predictively that economists give it a name.

    The early adopters pay the most like cell phones in the '90s or tvs in the '50s. Once the technology reaches critical mass (around 10% market penetration), the technology floods the market until it cheapens with market saturation around 90%. This is called 'S-Curve' economics. As a side note, this is a fascinating phenomenon to study. Home security has undergone the same S-curve. Check out this statement from a recent article on the state of home security.

    "Around 20% of homes in America have security systems, but this percentage is expected to increase over the next five years. In fact, experts predict that the number of homes with security systems will increase by 64% in that time period."

    The early adopters of home security were in the '70's, '80's, and '90's. It took 40 years for home security systems to reach 10% market penetration or critical mass. It has taken roughly 10 more years to go from 10% to 20% of all homes secure in the US. This article predicts a jump to over 80% in the next 5 years! That's an 'S-curve' for sure! But I ask you. Is this normalizing effect causing homeowners to feel over-confident?

    Unfortunately, I've noticed another trend. Homeowners are forgetting to lock their windows at an increasing rate. I'm a detailed house cleaner and clean complete kitchens and bathrooms, baseboards, wood trim, light switches, window ledges & sills over the course of time. I treat every client as if I was cleaning for my own family. Therefore, I'm a noticer! One of my clients was away for 5 days vacation and scheduled cleaning on the day of their arrival home. While I was there, I noticed that all 4 windows on the first floor were unlocked! These 4 windows happened to be the ones to the left and right of the front door on the porch. This discovery made me uneasy, so I locked them and notified the family. They were so thankful.

    I notice unlocked windows more often in upstairs bedrooms. However, you'd be surprised how many windows I've locked in my 15 years cleaning houses on the first floor! I'm not a psychologist, but I will hypothesize. We are placing too much trust in our technology. Many homeowners in suburbia believe that their neighborhoods are safe. Therefore, they can leave their car doors, front doors, and windows open. If there was an intruder, the alarm system would pick it up. I learned recently from a bank professional that criminals are getting smarter too. They are not the Water Bandits from "Home Alone" that can be thwarted by a 7-year-old boy with lots of toys, tacks, and tar. These criminals are timing their crimes to steal from moms while they drop off kids at daycare. They target shopping parking lots. And they target the most "trusting" homeowners. I'm sure this is not new to anyone reading this.


     Read the rest of this article at the Solo Cleaning School website

    21 min
  • The Cows Were Right, Eat Mor Chikin

    McDonald's is largest fast food restaurant chain in the world. There are nearly 40,000 stores worldwide totaling $21 billion in annual sales. I used to eat at McD's a lot as a kid and young adult. My favorite meal was the breakfast combo Sausage, Egg, and Cheese McMuffin, hash brown, and juice. Ray Kroc founded McDonald's on April 15th, 1955. He was a big thinker from the beginning and pioneered the franchise model, where you have a system for each new store empowering the spirit of the entrepreneur and leveraging the success of duplication. The company knows how to advertise with their jingles being some of the most well-known on the planet. They know how to entertain, bringing playgrounds inside their restaurants to get more kids to bring their parents. The company knows how to grow and scale. If you ever study this, you will be impressed. So many cleaning companies adopt franchise models as well for the same reasons. Like McDonald's, they can scale to incredible proportions.

    Truett Cathy founded Chick-Fil-A on May 23, 1946. He was also a visionary entrepreneur, but his focus was different. They have been open 9 years longer than McDonald's, but have only opened 2,600 stores and these are mostly in the United States. On the surface, it appears that McDonald's is right with it's slogans of "Have you had your break today?" and "I'm lovin' it!" People are taking their breaks and loving it with over 1 billion served! However, let's study this further. 

    Truett Cathy was a christian man who decided to observe the Holy Sabbath and close his stores every Sunday. This was an unthinkable move as restaurants make a fortune on Sundays! Truett focused on customer service with a smile and treating every customer with love and respect. He wanted his team to love what they did as they knew they were not in the food business, rather the people business. They also get paid more per hour than McDonald's. Truett Cathy decided to only serve chicken and has become world-class at it. McDonald's serves beef and chicken. Personally, I love the Chick-Fil-A Spicy Chicken Deluxe with waffle fries. They also know how to advertise. Their 'Eat Mor Chikin' campaign is brilliant and hilarious, displaying poor-spelling cows begging us to eat chicken instead of beef. Truett Cathy's methods have created raving fans of his restaurants. In fact, there are loyal patrons willing to campout for free sandwiches at new store openings. It's called the "Chick-Fil-A First 100 Campout Giveaway". These patrons are proud of their affiliation with Chick-Fil-A. The only time I've ever seen anyone camping outside of McDonald's are the ones that live there. Oh, and I challenge you to drive by both of these fast food restaurants and see which drive through line is wrapped around the building!

    The typical Chick-Fil-A store is open from 8 am to 9 pm, while McDonald's is open from 5:30 am to 11 pm. Thus, the typical Chick-Fil-A store is open 78 hours compared to McDonald's 124.5 hours per week. However, something isn't adding up. McDonald's stores are open 60% longer and they have 15 times as many stores in the world, yet their annual sales are only a pinch over 5 times more than Chick-Fil-A. Do you know why?


    Read the rest of this article at the Solo Cleaning School website

    23 min
  • What Are Your Flies?

    When I was 13, I got a job with the Movie Exchange. It was the company owned bye buy step-grandparents Monty and Shelly Tibbitts, whom I've talked about in prior episodes. They were the only entrepreneurs in my teen years, but I never had the courage to ask them real questions on business mindset. I wish that I had! However, I did learn a ton from them by watching the way the they lived and the way others treated them. First of all, they had money! There were always two Jags in the driveway. They owned a private plane, a boat, a beach house, wave runners. Secondly, they had beautiful decor and they entertained first rate. Check out "Eat with your Eyes First". The Tibbitts' were all about serving and mingling family with business. They made their business deals and built relationships with employees and their families at the dinner table in their home. Their imprint is definitely on me as an adult entrepreneur. I just didn't recognize it until Pop-Pop Monty passed away a few years ago.

    I worked for the Movie Exchange for 2 summers. In this podcast, I'd like to share a fun story about swatting flies that connects deeply to how solo cleaners speed up their cleaning. This episode will be a great companion to "Optimizing is More Mental than Physical". During one of these summers, Grandma Shelly sent me into an unused, overflow office area. During the 90's, the Movie Exchange was rapidly growing a pre-viewed VHS division. They would sell acquire grocery store real estate sell these movies for under $10 and they sold very well. The movies had to be inspected, shrink-wrapped, price labeled, and distributed to their display cases in various outlets. In fact, my step-dad Paul was a lead salesman for this division of his parent's business. As a side note, I got to work in the shrink-wrap & labeling side the summer after this story takes place. Now that you understand the business model a little more, Grandma Shelly took me out to the empty office areas and showed me a full room of movie jackets (covers). She wanted me to organize these movie jackets alphabetically, so that they could easily match the VHS movies from the warehouse to the correct jacket faster. This work felt like busy work; a way to teach a teenager humility and work ethic. But no... I confirmed with Grandma Shellie recently and she assured me this was an important step in the process in 1990. She showed me where the box cutters, tape, and empty boxes were located and told me to stop by her office with any questions. That's all of the direction she gave me!

    I remember this job distinctly 30 years later. There was a large central room approximately 40 feet by 30 feet and few side rooms. One of those side rooms was empty and the other was stocked floor to ceiling with movie jacket boxes. In 1990, I was a HUGE Beatles fan and was already wearing out the cassette tape of the Beatles Greatest Hits 1962-1966 on my Sony Walkman. I was ready to play this over-and-over while sorting through boxes all day... and I did! The Movie Exchange was paying me minimum wage of $3.85 per hour. I worked through July and August for 5 hours per day. It was awesome earning that biweekly paycheck as a teenager.


    Read the rest of this article at the Solo Cleaning School website

    26 min
  • Break Fix Model

    I met Tom while living with my mother in-law. He was so nice and gave recycled computers to Kenny from his computer repair store. It started Kenny on a path to do computer flipping as a side business. We stayed in touch with Tom, with a possibility of Kenny doing some interning for him. I bumped into Tom again when he was on the Chamber webinar where I taught the "9 Mistakes in Disinfecting". Tom was really impressed and wanted to have me speak on the topic in a local business owner's group. We stayed in touch as COVID slowed. He invited us over as he had more recycled computers for Kenny. I've been very grateful that Tom thought of my son and helping a budding computer entrepreneur. I showed up with my son a few days later during a podcast recording day. I was dressed in shorts and a tank top. While Kenny was rummaging through computers, Tom mentioned that he was interested in getting a cleaning quote down the road. Of course, I told him we could set it up. But as Kenny took his time, Tom said. "Would you like to see it now?" I was not in professional dress and told Tom that I felt funny. He laughed and took me around the building. I took notes and promised to get some quotes out to him. When I saw the bathroom, I felt challenged by the rings in the sink. I knew Kenny wasn't done yet, so I said to Tom. "I'll be right back. I'm going to get the big guns and make this sink look awesome." He didn't argue at all. By the time Kenny was ready, the sink was glistening and Tom was amazed.

    The rest of our visit at Tom's was very interesting. Tom agreed to allow Kenny to cut videos for his YouTube channel on computer repair for beginners, so we staged a video of Kenny knocking on the back door and Tom letting him in. The video then cuts to Kenny carrying computer parts and monitors out of the store and loading our SUV. He described what and why he was there. During our conversations with Tom, he shared something very interesting after I mentioned a mutual friend in Tom's industry that I just started cleaning for. Tom said this. "He's a MSP. I'm in the break-fix side of the business." He then explained the two business models in his industry and, of course, I related it to cleaning. Tom shared that break-fix businesses deal with smaller companies and have computers dropped off. He can work by appointment, and have a lot more flexibility. Plus he doesn't need many technicians to accomplish the work. It's a small, efficient business with flexibility. Tom explained the MSP (or Managed Service Provider) model like a hospital nursing station, where the company has screens monitoring the computer systems of all their customers in real-time. The MSP must be quick, nimble, on call, and ready to tackle anything that comes their way. They work on a recurring model paid monthly. Tom doesn't have a paid monthly model. He does one-time fixes. However certain customers come in for tune-ups few times a year most likely or have multiple repairs in a year as Tom is "their guy". Tom is the solo cleaner version and Chris is the team cleaner version. Both are excellent as they are different models and appeal to different clients. Tom knows what he is and why he does it. It was so encouraging to connect with a solo cleaner in the computer repair industry. I was also able to sent Tom's proposal two days later and got a "Yes" within 15 minutes! This is a new record for yes-time!


    Read the rest of this article at the Solo Cleaning School website

    23 min

About Smart Cleaning School

From the publisher's feed

The Smart Cleaning School Podcast helps cleaning business owners from start-up to the struggling solo to the striving seven-figure get SMARTER in their businesses, reshape their mindset, increase…

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