Songwriters on Process

"When you have a regimen, it's ok to let up on yourself. Because you know that tomorrow, you'll be doing it again."

Madison Cunningham firmly believes in the writer's regimen. You have to put in the work every day. None of this "waiting for inspiration" stuff.  "Words on a page every day, even if it's not songwriting," she says.  So she starts each day by writing for ten minutes because everyone can make time for ten minutes. No excuses.

Cunningham also reads voraciously. "Books are one of my favorite wells to draw from," she says in this episode. She draws inspiration from iconic writers like Mary Oliver, Sylvia Plath, Flannery  O'Connor, and Kurt Vonnegut.  But books are not her only source of inspiration: dishes are too. Cunningham is yet another in the line of songwriters I've interviewed who gets song ideas while washing dishes. "Every time I've put down the guitar and picked up a dish, I've never regretted it," she says. 

Of course, it's not that the act of scrubbing food that gives us song ideas; instead, writing happens subconsciously.  Writers of any stripe need to understand that the writing process happens when we're eating, sleeping, walking, talking, sitting, staring, whatever--even doing dishes, because the mundane activities allow our minds to wander.

Cunningham is a two-time Grammy nominee (2019, 2022). Her third and latest album is Revealer. 

"If I have one piece of advice to give, it would be to write something the moment you wake up." Will Sheff of Okkervil River likes a good writing ritual. He believes in writing every day, just as a professional athlete needs to practice every day.  But as you'll hear in this episode, he's also a firm believer in loafing. Sheff's first proper solo album, out October 7, is called Nothing Special. 

In most workplaces, falling asleep on the job is not a good thing. But if you’re in Metric, Emily Haines says it's a great thing.  In fact, she and her bandmates love it when they catch each other napping in the studio.  Because that means they're being productive. Listen to the latest episode now!

"I still have your cutlery, by the way," Butch Walker tells Matt Nathanson in this episode. Nathanson's latest album Boston Accent  was produced by Walker.  And while the two may have shared kitchen space and maybe even a utensil or two, their relationship in the studio worked because their creative processes were symbiotic: the limitation in one was offset by the complementary strength in the other. 

People tell John Moreland that he writes "bummer songs," which we both agreed is ironic gives that he cannot be in a bummer mood when he writes. "If I'm doing anything creative, my mind needs to be in a good space," Moreland told me. "I need a measure of self-acceptance when I write."

And when Moreland writes, he has a ritual. He likes to write between midnight and 4am. It has to be dark, and it has to be cool/cold, so he sets the thermostat to around 66 F.  And here's my favorite part: Tokyo walking videos.   When Moreland is stuck, he turns to YouTube and watches these videos for about 20 minutes. Sometimes it might be white noise when he's creating. Moreland loves the soothing element of a camera capturing the downtown streets of Tokyo at night with only the sound of the city as its soundtrack. 

Moreland has one of my favorite voices in all of music. It hits me like no other. His latest album is called Birds in the Ceiling.

Kelsey Waldon finds the beginnings of spring and fall to especially conducive to songwriting. A good yellow legal pad helps as well. Her latest album is called No Regular Dog on Oh Boy Records.

Ready for some light summer reading? Taylor Goldsmith of Dawes isn't. He's currently reading Homer's The Iliad.

This is the second time I've interviewed Goldsmith, and I remain in awe of his reading habits. He reads all the time. My PhD in English Literature ensures that I've always done a fair amount of reading, yet I feel silly around Goldsmith. What I love about Goldsmith is that he reads not just for fun but to be enveloped by the artist. "I get caught up in the story of the artist," he says. "That's a big part of what inspires me. I want to see how the works of artist talk to each other." He'll do this whether it's a songwriter or a prose writer. 

Dawes's latest album is Misadventure of Doomscroller.

"This is gonna sound gross, but I'm a 34 year old adult and I've just started flossing for the first time in my life."

Come for the process, stay for the hygiene! Yes, there is a connection between Kevin Morby's songwriting process and his dental health: it all has to do with organization.

But while Morby may not floss and write at the same time, he does have a few rituals. He likes a cheap Bic pen and a yellow legal pad for lyrics because the unfussiness of them allows him get messy. He likes to pace with a guitar on a hardwood floor when he creates music. And he uses running as a way to work through lyrical or musical conundrums. Many songwriters tell me that they use exercise to clear the brain, and it functions that way for Morby too. He's somewhat unique, though, in also using it to help him create in the moment. 

Kevin Morby's excellent new album is called This is a  Photograph (Dead Oceans). 

Martin Courtney of Real  Estate says that songwriting can be a "painstaking" process, so he's trying something new. "I'm trying to plow through it, take a step back, then chip away at it," he told me. He's also found fulfillment in writing about the small details of everyday life, trying to work those ideas into his songs.

But he always has Strega Nona to fall back on.

Courtney's new solo album is called Magic Sign. 

For Laura Veirs, the songwriting process involves giving the muse a good, long side eye. That's when she's not painting, surfing, reading, or exercising--all while being a  single parent. "I try to do several things at once so nothing becomes too precious or too obsessive," Veirs told me in our interview.