How do people become spies -- and why do some people end spying against their will? In the second part of this two-part series, Ben and Matt dive into the present state of spying, along with the troubling trends looming on the horizon.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

They don't want you to read our book.: https://static.macmillan.com/static/fib/stuff-you-should-read/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.