Alan Kohler joins Andrew to discuss the FBI’s counterintelligence division. He is a recipient of the FBI Director’s Award for Outstanding Counterintelligence Investigation. 

Alan Kohler (LinkedIn, Website) has been the FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence since 2020. Alan and Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) talk all things counterintelligence.

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Mike Susong joins Andrew to discuss the impact and potential of AI on the intelligence field. Mike is a former CIA case officer who now oversees global intelligence for a risk management company.

Mike Susong (Website, LinkedIn) is an expert in the growing field of artificial intelligence. He joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss.

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Alexander Rose (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss a gripping spy-vs-spy true story from the U.S. Civil War. He wrote the book that was the inspiration behind the hit TV-series TURN.

Liverpool. The city of the Beatles. The home of Liverpool F.C., winner of six European Cups. Did you know that there – thousands of miles away from the bloody battlefields of Fredericksburg, Shiloh, and Gettysburg – the U.S. Civil War played out? 

In fact, it was a key part of the strategies of both the North and the South since at that time it produced more ships than every other dockyard in the world combined. The North wanted to choke off the South, with the help of spies; but the South wanted to build a navy, with the help of spies. Who would prevail? This is the story of spy-vs-spy, North vs South, and Thomas Dudley vs James Bulloch.

And… 

If this spy story makes you hungry for more, check out Alex’s historical espionage newsletter, Spionage. 

“If Dudley hadn't stopped Bulloch, or if Dudley hadn't existed and Bulloch created this massive fleet of blockade runners and had built more commerce raiders … You would've had a many more sinkings of American merchant vessels. You would've had larger inflows of arms and weapons into the South. The biggest change of all would've been that having the sea lanes open like that would've allowed the South to fight on much longer than it actually did.”

• You must watch Ken Burns landmark documentary The Civil War; but, you must also read more recent commentary and critique – there’s even a whole book related to it. 

• You know Liverpool as the city of the Beatles. Did you know that The Beatles’ first single “Love Me Do” and James Bond’s debut movie “Dr. No” were released within a month of each other in 1962? And while none of the Beatles went on to become spies themselves, Ringo married Bond girl Barbara Bach in 1980 and Paul was behind the first rock Bond theme song, “Live and Let Die,” in 1973. 

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Jim Popkin (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss America’s most damaging female spy, Ana Montes. Jim is a four-time recipient of the national Emmy Award for outstanding journalism.

And much, much more …

She’s “the most famous spy no one’s ever heard of” – Why? Clouded by the tragedy of 9/11, Ana Montes was arrested on suspicion of espionage on September 21, 2001, as the Twin Towers smoldered. She had been spying for Cuba for almost two decades, sending secrets from the heart of American intelligence to Fidel Castro’s regime. 

This week, author and investigative journalist Jim Popkin joins Andrew to discuss Ana Montes’ story framed by his new book, Code Name Blue Wren: The True Story of America's Most Dangerous Female Spy—and the Sister She Betrayed. Jim debriefs us on how Ana was recruited, how she gathered and sent secrets, and how she ultimately the net closed in on her. 

And… 

The timing couldn’t be better to discuss Ana Montes’ story. Ana was released from prison two weeks ago on January 6th after serving 21 of her 25-year prison sentence. Why has Ana been released while fellow spies who caused tremendous damage, Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames, remain incarcerated? Tune into this week’s episode to find out!

“There's a haunting message that the FBI found on her laptop from the Cubans that said, ‘Thank you so much for revealing [Redacted.] We are waiting for him here with open arms.’ So, she revealed the real name of someone who was headed to Cuba, the Cubans were aware of it, and, and they were, ‘waiting for him with open arms.’” – Jim Popkin.

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John Hamilton (LinkedIn, Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Woodrow Wilson and the birth of American propaganda during WWI. He is a Professor of Journalism at Louisiana State University. 

When the Committee on Public Information was created in April of 1917, the United States was but one week into the first World War. In fact, the Selective Service Act would not come about for another month after the organization of the CPI. Why was Woodrow Wilson so quick to establish a system of control over public opinion, and how successful was this endeavor?

To answer these questions and more, author John Hamilton joins Andrew in a conversation about how propaganda and manipulation were used as a covert tactic during WWI and beyond. As John notes, “everything that’s done today can be traced to the CPI.”

And… 

While the CPI formally existed for only a year, its impact and imagery has endured for over 100 years. For proof, look no further than the story of the iconic “I Want You!” poster of Uncle Sam. 

“You may not like the enemy, but the enemy and you are doing the same thing to manipulate people’s attitudes. And while you may think you have a just cause, your means are quite often the same – Right down to lying, and manipulation and coercion.” – John Hamilton.

• Check out the Mussolini funded movie Scipione L’Africano (1937) - an attempt to use the story of a legendary Roman general to justify the fascist regime and its ambitions in North Africa.

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Thomas Leahy (Website; LinkedIn) and Eleanor Williams (Website; Twitter) join Andrew to discuss the intelligence war during “the Troubles.” Thomas lives in Cardiff and Eleanor lives in Belfast. 

From the late 60’s to the late 90’s Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries, and the British and Irish states, were engaged in a period known as “the Troubles”: a struggle to define or redefine the future of the island of Ireland. This is an issue with deep and complex roots, but the intelligence dimension of the period known as the Troubles is fascinating and often overlooked.

To help us get our head around it all, Andrew sat down with two specialists to discuss all things intelligence and the Troubles: from the role that MI5 and MI6 played, to the Force Research Unit and the RUC Special Branch, through to how the IRA played the counterintelligence game and the role that informers, agents and moles, such as the notorious “Stakeknife,” played. 

Thomas is the author of the Intelligence War Against the IRA, while Eleanor is a doctoral candidate comparing intelligence use during the Northern Irish and Colombian conflicts. 

And…

The head of the Republic of Ireland’s police and security intelligence force, the Garda Síochána, is Drew Harris. Drew Harris was a career Royal Ulster Constabulary officer whose father, also a career RUC officer, was killed by the IRA in 1989. He was the first external appointee from outside the Garda.

"What's their [IRA] main role in this intelligence conflict?...one of the key points here…the IRA was quite highly regional regionalized. That's actually quite key to explain why British intelligence had some difficulties against them…Initially, it was set up similar to armed forces. It would have brigades, battalions and companies…the IRA operated this kind of army structure up to 1975…the IRA then switched to this new strategy…And part of this was to prevent mass infiltration, which had started to become a problem, particularly in Belfast pre-1975. So, what it adopted in Belfast and Derry was a cell structure." – Thomas Leahy

• MI5 Chameleon Infiltrated New IRA

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Enrique “Ric” Prado (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new memoir “Black Ops.” One of the most renowned CIA officers of his generation tells his story.

Book

You can buy Ric’s book, Black Ops, and support the International Spy Museum’s mission here.

Intelligence

Reflections

And much, much more…

Ric Prado spent twenty-four-years in the CIA – and what a twenty-four years it was. His first 36 months were in the jungles of Central America as the first CIA officer to live among the “Contras,” including a period with the Miskito Native people; indeed, the photos he took ending up on the desk of CIA Director Bill Casey. So, what was it like at the pointy end of the Reagan Doctrine’s anti-communist spear, or as CIA Counterterrorist Center Chief of Ops during 9/11?

To find out, and to hear more about Ric’s storied career, Andrew sat down with him for this week’s episode. One of the meanings of the noun “legend” is “a story coming down from the past.” Many people who were in the business at the CIA and elsewhere will have heard the stories that come down from the past re Enrique “Ric” Prado, but now we all have a chance to hear Ric set the record straight in his own words. 

And…

If Ric’s communist uncle hadn’t alerted the family that his school intended to send him off to the Soviet Union as a promising student for further education…if he hadn’t taken an Oceanography class at Miami Dade College and met someone who led him to USAF Pararescue…if he hadn’t been tipped off that he was to be killed in a Contra camp during the night and extricated himself from the situation…as Bob Dylan said, summing up so much of the human condition, “one more time, for a simple twist of fate.”

"The wiring was there and the mentoring from my dad…then the trip to the orphanage. And then definitely when I got into pararescue…being one of our special operations forces, the training is very, very intense…And making it through SERE school, making it through mountain climbing school. There's a certain level of conquering your emotions that you have to do…But I think that the most important thing was that I believed in what I was doing." – Ric Prado

SpyCast Episodes

Books

Articles

Documentaries

Primary Sources

Wildcard Resource

• The Clash, Sandanista (Album, 1980)

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Loch Johnson (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss covert action aka “The Third Option.” He is the author of over 30 books on intelligence.

There is perhaps no better guest to join Andrew in this week’s exploration of covert action than Professor Emeritus at the University of Georgia Loch Johnson. Loch’s latest book, The Third Option: Covert Action and American Foreign Policy, examines the history of the complicated and sometimes controversial usage of covert action by the U.S. international affairs. 

Loch’s decades-long career in foreign policy and intelligence has brought him to the forefront of some of the most seminal moments within US intelligence reform: he served as special assistant to the chair of the Church Committee, staff director of the House Subcommittee on Intelligence Oversight, and worked directly with the chair of the Aspin-Brown Commission.

In this two-part episode of SpyCast, Andrew and Loch unpack what makes a covert action operation successful, and how we can learn from intelligence failures and past mistakes. 

And… 

How many people have a society named after them? Loch does! 

"History doesn't like to be shaped, it has a power all of its own, but we try to shape it at least at the margins, and we do that through covert action, sometimes called the third option…and it really comes in four packages. Package number one is propaganda… And then comes political covert actions…Thirdly is economic covert action…And then fourthly, and most dramatically, are paramilitary operations. These are war-like activities." – Loch Johnson.

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Loch Johnson (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss covert action aka “The Third Option.” He is the author of over 30 books on intelligence.

There is perhaps no better guest to join Andrew in this week’s exploration of covert action than Professor Emeritus at the University of Georgia Loch Johnson. Loch’s latest book, The Third Option: Covert Action and American Foreign Policy, examines the history of the complicated and sometimes controversial usage of covert action by the U.S. international affairs. 

Loch’s decades-long career in foreign policy and intelligence has brought him to the forefront of some of the most seminal moments within US intelligence reform: he served as special assistant to the chair of the Church Committee, staff director of the House Subcommittee on Intelligence Oversight, and worked directly with the chair of the Aspin-Brown Commission.

In this two-part episode of SpyCast, Andrew and Loch unpack what makes a covert action operation successful, and how we can learn from intelligence failures and past mistakes. 

And… 

How many people have a society named after them? Loch does! 

"History doesn't like to be shaped, it has a power all of its own, but we try to shape it at least at the margins, and we do that through covert action, sometimes called the third option…and it really comes in four packages. Package number one is propaganda… And then comes political covert actions…Thirdly is economic covert action…And then fourthly, and most dramatically, are paramilitary operations. These are war-like activities." – Loch Johnson.

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John Mullen (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his life and career. He was awarded the Distinguished Intelligence Medal.  

The Pacific Theater of WWII was imprinted on John Mullen as a young boy. He grew up in Seattle on the West Coast and had family members who remembered Boeing factories under camouflaged nets. He had two family members who were killed in that theater in the 1940s. 

John went on to have a stellar CIA career - but one that always had an eye to the East. He went on the become the Assistant Director for Asia and the Pacific, leading all clandestine activity across this huge region, and spent time as a CIA Station Chief in the Far East. He has since co-founded his own firm and is currently engaged in protecting innovation at Strider Technologies as an Executive Vice President. 

Ever wondered what it’d be like to join the CIA or to leave it to work in corporate America? 

I have a feeling John might be able to help…

And…

Business intelligence, competitive intelligence, product intelligence, workforce intelligence: in case you haven’t noticed – intel is everywhere these days! 

Honestly, in my 30 years, at CIA, there were probably less than two handfuls of days. I woke up and wasn't excited about going to work. – John Mullen.

• The Pacific War, WELT (2021) [documentary]

• The American Battle Monuments Commission maintains 26 military cemeteries and memorials in 17 different foreign countries around the world that honor Americans that served in World War I and World War II. If you have a family member buried abroad, you can utilize ABMC’s Burial Search to locate their records. 

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