“Our worst enemy right now is not Trump himself, but fatalism about our ability to stop him.” That’s what David Cole says – he recently stepped down as National Legal Director of the ACLU, after 8 years and hundreds of lawsuits against the first Trump administration.

Also: Project 2025,the Heritage Foundation’s famous 900 page book, is partly “"too dumb to accomplish anything at all”--that’s what Rick Perlstein says. The rest, he says, can be read as a useful catalog of how we should focus our resistance.

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Matt Gaetz dropping out as Attorney General nominee was a major setback for Trump, which exposes his vulnerabilities and weaknesses. Harold Meyerson reports on the divide in the Senate, and then between the MAGA movement and Republicans on Wall Street and in the corporations.

Also on this episode of Start Making Sense: Trump’s plan to deport millions of undocumented immigrants is terrible, but the idea of expelling people considered undesirable is not unprecedented in the American past. Eric Foner reviews that history, from the Native American “Trail of Tears” to the pre-Civil War proposals to free the slaves and send them to Africa.

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A lot of people who voted for abortion rights referenda this year also voted for Trump. What were they thinking? How do they understand politics? Amy Littlefield spent election day in Amarillo, Texas, trying to find out.

Also: John Lewis, who died in 2020, challenged injustice from the sit-ins of 1960 to the Age of Trump. Historian David Greenberg talks about what we can learn from his example. Greenberg’s new book is “John Lewis: A Life.”

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Hope does not mean saying ‘this is not bad,’ Rebecca Solnit argues; it just means we will not give up—because we know that what we do matters, and we also know we’ve been surprised by good things we never expected.

Also: The bromance between Elon Musk and Donald Trump cannot last – historian David Nasaw will explain why.

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John Nichols looks at the elections results: how we got here, and what we do next. For starters: Trump got fewer votes than 4 years ago; 55% of voters in the CNN exit poll said he was "too extreme."

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New research suggests what messages win working class votes in Pennsylvania – strong economic populism, and not Trump’s threat to democracy. Bhaskar Sunkara, the Nation’s president, is on the podcast to discuss.

Also: The ACLU has been preparing for election day threats to voting and vote counting for years. Sophia Lin Lakin, director of the ACLU’s voting rights project, explains.

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Latino and Black voters in swing states, we are told by the New York Times, are “drifting away from the Democrats.” But how good is the evidence here? Steve Phillips has our analysis.

Also: Melania has published a memoir: “Melania,” where she revisits plagiarizing Michelle Obama for her 2016 RNC convention speech, and wearing that jacket that said “I don’t care, do U?” when she visited INS detention camps for children separated from their parents at the border. Amy Wilentz comments on her explanations—and on the rest of the book.

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One in six voters, pollsters say, are “still unsure of their choice.” What do people mean when they say they are “undecided”? Rick Perlstein says political writers have failed to understand the undecideds—and what Kamala might do to win their votes.

Also: Pennsylvania is the state where this year’s election may well be decided—and where nearly two-thirds of voters don’t have college degrees. Eyal Press went to Pennsylvania to find out what working class people there are thinking about and talking about in this election.

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The polls have had disastrous failures for decades, but people continue to focus on them; Rick Perlstein has a better idea: ‘don’t follow polls—organize.’

Also: Democrat Marie Gleusenkamp Perez won a House seat in a Trump district, pointing the way for others. Marc Cooper analyzes her current reelection campaign in southwestern Washington State, starting from the fact that she’s a working class woman in a rural area.

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John Nichols has been driving to places in middle America where Trump has gotten big majorities in the past: Iowa and Nebraska, central and Western Illinois, and southwestern Wisconsin, asking Democrats there about politics in their towns right now.

Also: Kamala’s campaign is challenging the Republican conception of “freedom” as freedom from government regulation, advancing instead a positive conception of the government’s ability to protect and expand freedom. Eric Foner explains the history, and significance, of this conflict.

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