<p>Jordan from Gideon Optics joins John on State of the Second to talk about why innovation in the optics and firearms space is harder than the crowd thinks. Jordan started in the industry about 11 years ago selling parts at gun shows and online, with JSD Supply as his original business and brand, then moved into optics after the laws around privately made firearm parts started to change. He wanted a less politically charged product line, weighed a knife company against an optics company, and landed on optics with help from Mike Branson, who does the reticle design and the technical work. The Omega is the top seller, a large circular competition-style red dot priced in the low two hundreds so newer shooters can try a pistol optic without spending $700.</p>
<p>The conversation digs into the reality of building optics. There is no standard footprint across the industry, the small red-dot envelope means heavy overlap in styling, and Jordan says the real innovation right now is making products better, faster, and cheaper than five years ago. He describes an in-house quality process where every unit gets checked coming in and going out, backed by a lifetime warranty. The spicy topic is the gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy. Jordan and John trade examples, from oddball calibers and a 10mm part to the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, and the Liberty pen gun, to make the point that the market punishes risk even while everyone demands cool new products. Companies have to put their R&D dollars where the money actually is.</p>
<p>The middle of the episode turns to policy. Jordan was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024, with a ruling he expected around May or June 2025. He and John walk through the ripple effect: a broadly written rule that starts with 80% frames can reach forgings, the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, and eventually every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who think it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does. They push the grassroots message hard, contacting representatives at the local, state, and federal levels, and argue that gun rights are not a single-party issue. They close on the firearms community itself, which looks large but is small and tight-knit, and on the idea that the people behind the brands and the cameras are just regular people worth approaching.</p>
<h3>Questions this episode answers</h3>
<h4>How did Gideon Optics get started, and why did the team move from firearm parts into optics?</h4>
<p>Jordan started about 11 years ago selling parts at gun shows and online under JSD Supply, then moved into optics after the laws on privately made firearm parts began to change. He wanted a less politically charged line and chose optics over a knife company, with Mike Branson doing the reticle and technical work.</p>
<h4>What is the Omega, and why is it Gideon's top seller?</h4>
<p>The Omega is a large circular competition-style red dot priced in the low two hundreds. It is the top seller because that price lets newer shooters try a pistol optic without spending around $700.</p>
<h4>Is there a standard footprint across pistol optics, and where is the industry headed on that?</h4>
<p>There is no standard footprint across the optics industry. The small red-dot envelope also means heavy overlap in styling from one product to the next.</p>
<h4>What does real innovation look like in the optics space right now?</h4>
<p>Jordan says the real innovation today is making products better, faster, and cheaper than they were five years ago, rather than reinventing the form. Companies have to put their R&D dollars where the money actually is.</p>
<h4>What is Gideon's warranty and quality-control process?</h4>
<p>Gideon runs an in-house quality process where every unit is checked coming in and going out. That process is backed by a lifetime warranty.</p>
<h4>What was the Vanderstock case about, and when did Jordan expect a Supreme Court ruling?</h4>
<p>The Vanderstock case challenged the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule, and Jordan was involved and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. He expected a ruling around May or June 2025.</p>
<h4>How would a broadly written ATF frame-and-receiver rule affect manufacturers who don't make 80% frames?</h4>
<p>Jordan argues a rule written broadly enough to start with 80% frames can reach forgings and the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, eventually touching every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who assume it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does.</p>
<h4>Why does the industry struggle to innovate when customers keep asking for new products?</h4>
<p>There is a gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy, so risky products like the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, or the Liberty pen gun often fall flat. The market punishes risk, which forces companies to spend their R&D dollars where the money actually is.</p>
<h3>Chapters</h3>
<ul>
<li>00:00 — Intro and AAC ammo gift</li>
<li>01:25 — Rapid fire with Blackout Coffee</li>
<li>03:31 — How Gideon Optics started</li>
<li>05:47 — The Omega and the price-point play</li>
<li>06:37 — Why there's no standard footprint</li>
<li>07:49 — GOA's first convention and the community</li>
<li>09:58 — Importing, QC, and lifetime warranty</li>
<li>12:52 — Where the real innovation is now</li>
<li>13:37 — Post-election push and grassroots</li>
<li>17:53 — Soapbox: the Vanderstock case</li>
<li>19:34 — The ripple effect on every maker</li>
<li>26:49 — Gun rights aren't a one-party issue</li>
<li>36:17 — Spicy topic: what customers say vs buy</li>
<li>55:54 — Just people, and where to find Gideon</li>
</ul><br/>
<h3>About the guest</h3>
<p>Jordan is with Gideon Optics and a few other brands. He started in the firearms industry about 11 years ago, selling parts at gun shows and online, and his original business and brand was JSD Supply. He carries a SIG P365 with a Patmos Arms slide, which he names as one of their brands, and his company runs a couple of series of gun shows around the country. Gideon Optics has been out to retail for about two years, and he says he will turn 40 in a couple of weeks. He was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. [Last name heard as 'Vinro' in the auto-generated transcript; spelling unverified — VERIFY]</p>
<h3>Key quotes</h3>
<blockquote>"So we wanted to get into something that was less politically charged." — Jordan</blockquote>
<blockquote>"The innovation right now is being able to make the product better, faster and cheaper than even five years ago." — Jordan</blockquote>
<blockquote>"Gun rights don't have a letter next to them." — John</blockquote>
<blockquote>"So we need to bring everybody together when it comes to the 2A." — Jordan</blockquote>
<blockquote>"So they think that they want some whiz bang something so somebody makes it and it falls flat." — Jordan</blockquote>

Jordan from Gideon Optics joins John on State of the Second to talk about why innovation in the optics and firearms space is harder than the crowd thinks. Jordan started in the industry about 11 years ago selling parts at gun shows and online, with JSD Supply as his original business and brand, then moved into optics after the laws around privately made firearm parts started to change. He wanted a less politically charged product line, weighed a knife company against an optics company, and landed on optics with help from Mike Branson, who does the reticle design and the technical work. The Omega is the top seller, a large circular competition-style red dot priced in the low two hundreds so newer shooters can try a pistol optic without spending $700. The conversation digs into the reality of building optics. There is no standard footprint across the industry, the small red-dot envelope means heavy overlap in styling, and Jordan says the real innovation right now is making products better, faster, and cheaper than five years ago. He describes an in-house quality process where every unit gets checked coming in and going out, backed by a lifetime warranty. The spicy topic is the gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy. Jordan and John trade examples, from oddball calibers and a 10mm part to the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, and the Liberty pen gun, to make the point that the market punishes risk even while everyone demands cool new products. Companies have to put their R&D dollars where the money actually is. The middle of the episode turns to policy. Jordan was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024, with a ruling he expected around May or June 2025. He and John walk through the ripple effect: a broadly written rule that starts with 80% frames can reach forgings, the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, and eventually every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who think it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does. They push the grassroots message hard, contacting representatives at the local, state, and federal levels, and argue that gun rights are not a single-party issue. They close on the firearms community itself, which looks large but is small and tight-knit, and on the idea that the people behind the brands and the cameras are just regular people worth approaching. Questions this episode answers How did Gideon Optics get started, and why did the team move from firearm parts into optics? Jordan started about 11 years ago selling parts at gun shows and online under JSD Supply, then moved into optics after the laws on privately made firearm parts began to change. He wanted a less politically charged line and chose optics over a knife company, with Mike Branson doing the reticle and technical work. What is the Omega, and why is it Gideon's top seller? The Omega is a large circular competition-style red dot priced in the low two hundreds. It is the top seller because that price lets newer shooters try a pistol optic without spending around $700. Is there a standard footprint across pistol optics, and where is the industry headed on that? There is no standard footprint across the optics industry. The small red-dot envelope also means heavy overlap in styling from one product to the next. What does real innovation look like in the optics space right now? Jordan says the real innovation today is making products better, faster, and cheaper than they were five years ago, rather than reinventing the form. Companies have to put their R&D dollars where the money actually is. What is Gideon's warranty and quality-control process? Gideon runs an in-house quality process where every unit is checked coming in and going out. That process is backed by a lifetime warranty. What was the Vanderstock case about, and when did Jordan expect a Supreme Court ruling? The Vanderstock case challenged the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule, and Jordan was involved and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. He expected a ruling around May or June 2025. How would a broadly written ATF frame-and-receiver rule affect manufacturers who don't make 80% frames? Jordan argues a rule written broadly enough to start with 80% frames can reach forgings and the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, eventually touching every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who assume it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does. Why does the industry struggle to innovate when customers keep asking for new products? There is a gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy, so risky products like the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, or the Liberty pen gun often fall flat. The market punishes risk, which forces companies to spend their R&D dollars where the money actually is. Chapters 00:00 — Intro and AAC ammo gift 01:25 — Rapid fire with Blackout Coffee 03:31 — How Gideon Optics started 05:47 — The Omega and the price-point play 06:37 — Why there's no standard footprint 07:49 — GOA's first convention and the community 09:58 — Importing, QC, and lifetime warranty 12:52 — Where the real innovation is now 13:37 — Post-election push and grassroots 17:53 — Soapbox: the Vanderstock case 19:34 — The ripple effect on every maker 26:49 — Gun rights aren't a one-party issue 36:17 — Spicy topic: what customers say vs buy 55:54 — Just people, and where to find Gideon About the guest Jordan is with Gideon Optics and a few other brands. He started in the firearms industry about 11 years ago, selling parts at gun shows and online, and his original business and brand was JSD Supply. He carries a SIG P365 with a Patmos Arms slide, which he names as one of their brands, and his company runs a couple of series of gun shows around the country. Gideon Optics has been out to retail for about two years, and he says he will turn 40 in a couple of weeks. He was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. [Last name heard as 'Vinro' in the auto-generated transcript; spelling unverified — VERIFY] Key quotes "So we wanted to get into something that was less politically charged." — Jordan "The innovation right now is being able to make the product better, faster and cheaper than even five years ago." — Jordan "Gun rights don't have a letter next to them." — John "So we need to bring everybody together when it comes to the 2A." — Jordan "So they think that they want some whiz bang something so somebody makes it and it falls flat." — Jordan

<p>Jordan from Gideon Optics joins John on State of the Second to talk about why innovation in the optics and firearms space is harder than the crowd thinks. Jordan started in the industry about 11 years ago selling parts at gun shows and online, with JSD Supply as his original business and brand, then moved into optics after the laws around privately made firearm parts started to change. He wanted a less politically charged product line, weighed a knife company against an optics company, and landed on optics with help from Mike Branson, who does the reticle design and the technical work. The Omega is the top seller, a large circular competition-style red dot priced in the low two hundreds so newer shooters can try a pistol optic without spending $700.</p>
<p>The conversation digs into the reality of building optics. There is no standard footprint across the industry, the small red-dot envelope means heavy overlap in styling, and Jordan says the real innovation right now is making products better, faster, and cheaper than five years ago. He describes an in-house quality process where every unit gets checked coming in and going out, backed by a lifetime warranty. The spicy topic is the gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy. Jordan and John trade examples, from oddball calibers and a 10mm part to the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, and the Liberty pen gun, to make the point that the market punishes risk even while everyone demands cool new products. Companies have to put their R&amp;D dollars where the money actually is.</p>
<p>The middle of the episode turns to policy. Jordan was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024, with a ruling he expected around May or June 2025. He and John walk through the ripple effect: a broadly written rule that starts with 80% frames can reach forgings, the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, and eventually every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who think it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does. They push the grassroots message hard, contacting representatives at the local, state, and federal levels, and argue that gun rights are not a single-party issue. They close on the firearms community itself, which looks large but is small and tight-knit, and on the idea that the people behind the brands and the cameras are just regular people worth approaching.</p>
Questions this episode answers
How did Gideon Optics get started, and why did the team move from firearm parts into optics?
<p>Jordan started about 11 years ago selling parts at gun shows and online under JSD Supply, then moved into optics after the laws on privately made firearm parts began to change. He wanted a less politically charged line and chose optics over a knife company, with Mike Branson doing the reticle and technical work.</p>
What is the Omega, and why is it Gideon's top seller?
<p>The Omega is a large circular competition-style red dot priced in the low two hundreds. It is the top seller because that price lets newer shooters try a pistol optic without spending around $700.</p>
Is there a standard footprint across pistol optics, and where is the industry headed on that?
<p>There is no standard footprint across the optics industry. The small red-dot envelope also means heavy overlap in styling from one product to the next.</p>
What does real innovation look like in the optics space right now?
<p>Jordan says the real innovation today is making products better, faster, and cheaper than they were five years ago, rather than reinventing the form. Companies have to put their R&amp;D dollars where the money actually is.</p>
What is Gideon's warranty and quality-control process?
<p>Gideon runs an in-house quality process where every unit is checked coming in and going out. That process is backed by a lifetime warranty.</p>
What was the Vanderstock case about, and when did Jordan expect a Supreme Court ruling?
<p>The Vanderstock case challenged the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule, and Jordan was involved and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. He expected a ruling around May or June 2025.</p>
How would a broadly written ATF frame-and-receiver rule affect manufacturers who don't make 80% frames?
<p>Jordan argues a rule written broadly enough to start with 80% frames can reach forgings and the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, eventually touching every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who assume it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does.</p>
Why does the industry struggle to innovate when customers keep asking for new products?
<p>There is a gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy, so risky products like the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, or the Liberty pen gun often fall flat. The market punishes risk, which forces companies to spend their R&amp;D dollars where the money actually is.</p>
Chapters
<ul>
<li>00:00 — Intro and AAC ammo gift</li>
<li>01:25 — Rapid fire with Blackout Coffee</li>
<li>03:31 — How Gideon Optics started</li>
<li>05:47 — The Omega and the price-point play</li>
<li>06:37 — Why there's no standard footprint</li>
<li>07:49 — GOA's first convention and the community</li>
<li>09:58 — Importing, QC, and lifetime warranty</li>
<li>12:52 — Where the real innovation is now</li>
<li>13:37 — Post-election push and grassroots</li>
<li>17:53 — Soapbox: the Vanderstock case</li>
<li>19:34 — The ripple effect on every maker</li>
<li>26:49 — Gun rights aren't a one-party issue</li>
<li>36:17 — Spicy topic: what customers say vs buy</li>
<li>55:54 — Just people, and where to find Gideon</li>
</ul><br>
About the guest
<p>Jordan is with Gideon Optics and a few other brands. He started in the firearms industry about 11 years ago, selling parts at gun shows and online, and his original business and brand was JSD Supply. He carries a SIG P365 with a Patmos Arms slide, which he names as one of their brands, and his company runs a couple of series of gun shows around the country. Gideon Optics has been out to retail for about two years, and he says he will turn 40 in a couple of weeks. He was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. [Last name heard as 'Vinro' in the auto-generated transcript; spelling unverified — VERIFY]</p>
Key quotes
"So we wanted to get into something that was less politically charged." — Jordan
"The innovation right now is being able to make the product better, faster and cheaper than even five years ago." — Jordan
"Gun rights don't have a letter next to them." — John
"So we need to bring everybody together when it comes to the 2A." — Jordan
"So they think that they want some whiz bang something so somebody makes it and it falls flat." — Jordan

Why can't Optics Companies innovate? (ft. Gideon Optics)

<p>In this episode, we sit down with <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHVuflj9gCRlYXRAgafl29w" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@eotechinc</a> VP of Marketing, John Bailey. We discuss guns and games, how policy affects EOtech, and how EOtech got its start!</p><p>Introducing The State of the Second Podcast, presented by GOA. Join Kailey and John as they pull back the curtain of the firearms industry through conversations with the community and industry leaders. We will discuss, policy, activism, and industry insights.</p>

In this episode, we sit down with @eotechinc VP of Marketing, John Bailey. We discuss guns and games, how policy affects EOtech, and how EOtech got its start! Introducing The State of the Second Podcast, presented by GOA. Join Kailey and John as they pull back the curtain of the firearms industry through conversations with the community and industry leaders. We will discuss, policy, activism, and industry insights.

<p>In this episode, we sit down with <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHVuflj9gCRlYXRAgafl29w" rel="noopener noreferrer">@eotechinc</a> VP of Marketing, John Bailey. We discuss guns and games, how policy affects EOtech, and how EOtech got its start!</p><p>Introducing The State of the Second Podcast, presented by GOA. Join Kailey and John as they pull back the curtain of the firearms industry through conversations with the community and industry leaders. We will discuss, policy, activism, and industry insights.</p>

Origins of Eotech, Guns and Video Games | #1  - Eotech

<p>In this Episode, Kailey and John introduce you to the State of the Second Podcast. Join us as we explore pull back the curtain on the firearms industry and discuss policy, activism, and the business of the firearms industry. </p>

In this Episode, Kailey and John introduce you to the State of the Second Podcast. Join us as we explore pull back the curtain on the firearms industry and discuss policy, activism, and the business of the firearms industry.

What is the State of the Second Podcast? | #0

"State of the Second isn’t your typical 2A podcast—it’s a backstage pass into the firearms industry. 

Hosted by Kailey Nieman and John Fahrner, we sit down with the real people behind the brands, builds, and big ideas shaping the gun world. From shop owners to social media legends, each episode dives into how they got started, what keeps them going, and what it really takes to make it in the firearms industry, plus the battles they face along the way. If you’ve ever wondered how to break into the industry or what it’s like behind the scenes, this is your front-row seat."

Business

News

Government

Politics

"State of the Second isn’t your typical 2A podcast—it’s a backstage pass into the firearms industry. Hosted by Kailey Nieman and John Fahrner, we sit down with the real people behind the brands, builds, and big ideas shaping the gun world. From shop owners to social media legends, each episode dives into how they got started, what keeps them going, and what it really takes to make it in the firearms industry, plus the battles they face along the way. If you’ve ever wondered how to break into the industry or what it’s like behind the scenes, this is your front-row seat."

Share State of the Second

Sign up to save your podcasts

State of the Second

State of the Second episodes

About State of the Second

More shows like State of the Second

The Joe Rogan Experience

Gun Talk

We Like Shooting

AR-15 Podcast

Concealed Carry Podcast - Guns | Training | Defense | CCW

Gun & Gear Review Podcast

Order of Man

5-Minute Videos | PragerU

KILL TONY

Vortex Nation Podcast

Bearing Arms' Cam & Co

The Shawn Ryan Show

Rodeo Time with Dale Brisby

The Megyn Kelly Show

The Weekly Reload Podcast