Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors

In this episode Will talks with Dr. Anita Tucker and Dr. Christine Norton about the transformation of the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Research Center into the newly established Outdoor Research Collaborative for Health, Wellbeing, and Experiential Engagement (ORC) at the University of New Hampshire. The ORC's mission is to expand research efforts beyond wilderness therapy to encompass a wider array of outdoor-based mental health interventions, including community-based programs, trauma-informed practices, and experiential engagement. Dr. Tucker and Dr. Norton explain how the ORC is creating a more inclusive research environment by incorporating diverse voices, including former clients, and prioritizing diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) to better reflect the evolving field of outdoor therapy.

The conversation delves into the ORC's collaborative research efforts with programs across the country, from wilderness therapy to outpatient adventure-based counseling, and highlights the growing interest in nature-based mental health interventions post-pandemic. The ORC's strategic planning process involved engaging various stakeholders to ensure the research center's direction aligns with the field's needs. The episode also explores how outdoor therapy can reduce practitioner burnout and discusses the importance of research accessibility for practitioners and clients alike. Listeners will gain insight into the field's future, the role of community-based programming, and how the ORC continues to build trust and foster innovation through research and collaboration.

Stories from the Field is sponsored by White Mountain Adventure Institute.

Helpful links to learn more about information shared in this episode:

Outdoor Research Collaborative Website

Dr. Tucker talks about her background and the OBH Center in 2018 on Stories from the Field.

Dr. Norton talks about her background and her work at the OBH Center in 2019 on Stories from the Field.

Dr. Noton talks about research at the OBH Center about transporting young people to wilderness therapy programs in 2021.

Dr. Mike Gass talks about the OBH Center and its research and focus in 2021.

Dr. Tucker and Dr. Norton talk on the podcast Therapy +

Want to listen to an outdoor therapy session? In this episode Will embarks on a personal experiment inspired by Reid Hoffman's new book, Superagency. After reading about AI's potential role in mental health, Will decided to test whether an AI chatbot could function as a real-time outdoor mental health counselor. While hiking and skiing in the backcountry, he engaged in a structured conversations with an AI therapist he named "Diane," trained in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and recorded it. The session provided insights into processing emotions, adjusting to life transitions, and engaging more deeply with the natural environment. Will shares his experience, reflecting on the possibilities and limitations of AI in supporting mental well-being during outdoor activities.

The episode explores the growing demand for mental health services and how AI could help bridge the gap by providing low-cost, accessible support. AI tools, unlike human therapists, are always available and free from biases or emotional fatigue. However, Will also discusses the limitations of AI therapy, including its lack of human empathy, inability to respond to crises, and potential privacy concerns. While AI may not replace traditional therapy, it could serve as a valuable supplement for those seeking guidance in outdoor settings. The episode closes with a thought-provoking question: Would you use an AI mental health companion while hiking, skiing, or walking in the woods?

Our podcast underwriter is White Mountain Adventure Institute-(WMAI.org)

What can ancient myths teach us about group dynamics, leadership, and mental health? In this episode Will sits down with Brant Evans (pen name Brant Elwood), co-author of Gods, Heroes, and Groups, to explore how timeless stories offer powerful insights into modern therapy and leadership. Drawing from his experiences as a wilderness therapy field guide, an executive director in recovery programs, and now a therapeutic consultant at Stucker, Smith, and Weatherly, Brant shares how archetypal narratives help us understand the unconscious forces shaping group behavior.

Will and Brant discuss the evolving landscape of wilderness therapy, the impact of social media on mental health treatment, and how lessons from mythology can guide therapists, leaders, and individuals in navigating complex interpersonal dynamics. Whether you're a clinician, a leader, or simply interested in the intersection of psychology and storytelling, this episode provides a fascinating look at how ancient wisdom remains deeply relevant today.

Brant's book, God's, Heroes, and Groups is available on Amazon.

Our podcast underwriter is White Mountain Adventure Institute-(WMAI.org)

In this Will speaks with Derek Daley, the incoming president of the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (NATSAP), about the transformative implications of the Stop Institutional Child Abuse Act (SICAA) for outdoor behavioral health. This federal legislation focuses on increasing oversight, transparency, and accountability within youth treatment programs, aiming to establish national standards for ethical care and safety. Daley explains that the next two years will involve data collection and evaluation to guide future regulations, with NATSAP actively engaging policymakers to ensure the field's expertise and perspective shape these developments. He underscores the importance of trauma-informed care and community-based alternatives while advocating to preserve wilderness therapy as a vital option for families seeking outdoor behavioral healthcare.

Daley also sheds light on the recent merger of the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Council (OBH) Council with NATSAP, a decision driven by declining OBH membership and the closure of numeorus programs. This merger represents a strategic shift, enabling OBH's mission to thrive within NATSAP's broader organizational structure. Daley highlights OBH's legacy as a trailblazer in accreditation standards, safety data collection, and outcome tracking, which have influenced the entire field. With SICAA emphasizing data transparency and ethical practices, this partnership positions outdoor behavioral health programs to adapt and lead amid increasing federal oversight. Daley invites listeners to engage with these changes by attending the upcoming NATSAP conference and supporting initiatives that ensure the future of outdoor-based mental health care.

Here is a link to the SICAA act: https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/s1351/BILLS-118s1351es.pdf

Stories from the Field is sponsored by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org).

In this episode Will talks with John Tobias, founder of Red Cedar Transitions. John shares his journey from working at Boulder Outdoor Survival School to Aspen Achievement Academy and other wilderness therapy programs to establishing Red Cedar Transitions in Asheville, North Carolina. He discusses the evolution of his career, blending wilderness therapy, coaching, and psychotherapy, and highlights the flexibility and individualized approach of Red Cedar's community-based model. John emphasizes the importance of supporting young adults as they navigate transitions, providing them with tools for independence while staying connected to the real world.

The conversation explores the changing landscape of wilderness therapy, including the decline of traditional programs and the rise of alternative models like Red Cedar that cater to modern young adults' needs. John also reflects on the power of nature-based therapy and its potential to adapt and thrive despite industry challenges. With a focus on action-oriented coaching and the integration of therapeutic principles, John shares his vision for the future, emphasizing flexibility and responsiveness to the rapidly evolving needs of young people.

In this episode Will talks with John Karren, co-founder of Elements Programs. John reflects on how Elements has evolved over its 17-year history, moving from a strictly nomadic wilderness model to more flexible, tailored programs, including a new "Eclipse" option designed for neurodiverse adolescents. He explains the behind-the-scenes decisions that led them to integrate adventure activities, introduce heated tents, and adopt family-centric approaches, all while maintaining a commitment to the transformative power of the outdoors. John also discusses the critical role of collaboration with partners and clinical team members in shaping Elements' ongoing adaptations, from digital media overuse interventions to specialized programming for different client profiles.

Beyond the Elements model, John and Will touch on broader challenges facing the outdoor behavioral healthcare field, particularly the recent industry contractions and heightened public scrutiny. John shares how being a small, owner-operated program with dedicated clinical professionals has enabled Elements to stay resilient. He speaks passionately about the need to eliminate outdated practices, embrace ethical oversight, and remain agile in responding to ever-changing mental health needs. This conversation offers a candid look at how one wilderness therapy program continues to innovate while retaining a deep respect for the outdoors as a powerful catalyst for growth and healing.

Other podcast episodes related to Elements mentioned in this episode:

Episode 44: Karen Scrafford, Co-founder of Elements Wilderness Therapy

Episode 17: Lynn Smith, Co-founder of Elements Wilderness Program

98: Vicenzo Narciso, Undergraduate Student at San Diego Mesa College and Former Wilderness Therapy Student

In this special episode Will takes a deep dive into the Netflix documentary Hell Camp: Teen Nightmare, which explores the infamous Challenger Foundation—a adolescent wilderness therapy program in the late 1980s that became a cautionary tale of abuse and unethical practices. Will reflects on the emotional impact of the film, the human cost of profit-driven models, and the ripple effects of Challenger's abusive culture on the broader field of wilderness therapy. Drawing on his extensive research and writings, he examines how the program's legacy continues to shape the evolution of ethical standards and regulatory oversight in outdoor behavioral healthcare.

The episode also features insights from undergraduate students in Will's Wilderness Therapy class at Plymouth State University. These students share their fresh perspectives on the documentary and discuss the broader complexities of wilderness therapy, including their views on consent, ethical practices, and the role of outdoor experiences in healing. Their reflections, shaped by personal and professional experiences, underscore the importance of learning from the past to create safer and more effective programs today. Together, Will and his students offer a nuanced exploration of the challenges and potential of wilderness therapy as a tool for mental health treatment.

Will's doctoral dissertation is free on Proquest: Stories from the Elders: Chronicles and Narratives from the Early Years of Wilderness Therapy.

In this episode Will reconnects with Mod Barefoot Maves, who last appeared on the podcast just before the pandemic in February 2020. Mod shares the remarkable evolution of the Vermont-based program formerly known as True North Wilderness, which recently changed its name to True North Evolution. She discusses the thoughtful, incremental shift away from a nomadic wilderness therapy to a fully residential model, as well as the decision to focus solely on serving young adults rather than adolescents. Mod explains how this evolution reflects the changing needs and preferences of their clients, who increasingly seek in-depth, community-oriented experiences and meaningful engagement with the world around them.

Beyond adapting their program structure, True North Evolution has also embraced new modalities that balance outdoor engagement with dynamic residential offerings. Mod highlights the importance of authenticity, collaboration, and long-term relationships with clients, including the role of coaching and the integration of technology in carefully managed ways. Throughout the conversation, she underscores the importance of listening to feedback—both from young adults and the broader field—while maintaining a strong ethical foundation. This episode offers valuable insights into how a pioneering program is reimagining the future of outdoor behavioral healthcare.

In this episode Will reconnects with Andrew Taylor, founder of Pure Life Adventure in Costa Rica and the podcast's very first guest in 2018. Andrew shares the significant developments at Pure Life over the past six years, including how the COVID-19 pandemic forced a one-year suspension of operations due to Costa Rica closing its borders. This pause led to transformative changes such as enhanced pre-program communication with students, the introduction of academic credits, and the expansion to include adolescent groups. Andrew emphasizes the importance of informed consent and willingness among participants, noting that these shifts have strengthened the program's impact on young adults dealing with anxiety, depression, ADHD, and executive functioning challenges.

Andrew also discusses the inception of Octagon Mentoring, a coaching and mentoring initiative he started during the pandemic to continue supporting young adults. Octagon Mentoring offers services ranging from life coaching to an independent living facility in Salt Lake City, Utah. The conversation delves into his new book, "Launch: A Guide to Getting Unstuck, Navigating Life, and Thriving," which encapsulates his curriculum designed to help individuals overcome mental blocks and shift their mindsets. Andrew reflects on the evolving landscape of wilderness and adventure therapy, addressing the industry's recent contractions and expressing optimism for its future. He highlights the enduring healing power of nature and the necessity of adapting to meet the changing needs of young people and their families.

In this episode Will engages in a profound conversation with Danny Frazer, co-founder of the former Open Sky Wilderness Therapy program and founder of Gain the Ridge Consulting. Danny shares his journey into the field of wilderness therapy, beginning as an intern at Galena Ridge and progressing to roles at Aspen Achievement Academy. He reflects on the audacious vision that led to the founding of Open Sky in 2006, highlighting how they integrated innovative practices like yoga, meditation, naturopathic medicine, and extensive family involvement—elements that were revolutionary at the time. Danny discusses his leadership roles, including serving as the chair of the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Council, where he emphasized collaboration and ethical practices to advance the field.

The conversation delves into the challenging decision to close Open Sky in early 2024 after 18 years of operation. Danny candidly examines the multifaceted reasons behind the closure, including negative media portrayals of wilderness therapy, societal shifts in parenting styles, increased competition from insurance-covered programs, and the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. He shares his personal process of grief and reflection, which led to the creation of Gain the Ridge Consulting. Through his new venture, Danny aims to support leaders and organizations in behavioral healthcare by offering coaching and consulting services that focus on leadership development, risk management, and program evolution. He expresses optimism for the future of wilderness therapy, emphasizing the enduring power of nature in healing and personal growth.

To listen an episode about the closure of Open Sky check out episode 221-The Closure of Open Sky: Is this the "Winter" of Wilderness Therapy?