This week, in Episode 254, Jay Goltz, Mel Gravely, and special guest John Abrams have a frank conversation about what business owners can do to avoid what John calls the “fat-wallets-and-broken-hearts syndrome.” That’s his term for what can happen when an owner sells to private equity and the company ends up getting stripped. Jay, Mel, and John all agree they want no part of that. They all would like to see their businesses continue on without them. And yet, in thinking about succession, they’ve chosen different paths. In a conversation sparked by the recent publication of John’s book, From Founder to Future, we discuss those choices along with such issues as: why there are so few employee-owned businesses, whether they outperform other businesses, how you can finance the sale of a business to employees, whether the employee owners of an ESOP are truly owners, and whether a worker co-op model just might work for a hard-bitten, old-school owner like Jay Goltz.