- 00:02 - Welcome writer and poet DJ Leary

 - 00:45 - James "don't" do words well

 - 01:06 - How DJ met Catherine

 - 02:00 - DJ inspired at Shakespeare's Globe

 - 04:00 - Street performance typewriter

 - 04:37 - The "COVID Project 7-year novel"

 - 05:24 - Creating characters is complicated!

 - 06:00 - Post English degree creativity

 - 07:17 - Schools fall short for creative endeavors

 - 08:29 - Lack of critical thinking

 - 09:02 - Nobody can teach the artistic process

 - 09:50 - "New Slam In Town", Ghost Poetry Show

 - 10:57 - Kaiti Pritchett Slam Poet

 - 12:18 - Academic poetry turns off a generation

 - 13:50 - Console vs PC gaming

 - 14:50 - Catherine nods off during gaming convo

 - 15:33 - iPhone gaming and cruise ship quotas

 - 17:43 - James dates himself with "Doom"

 - 18:57 - The "gamer history eye roll"

 - 19:22 - Film Bar is back, same location!

 - 19:58 - Club Dwntwn hosts "Poetic Soul"

 - 20:30 - DJ's sci-fi novel

 - 21:09 - Just wear your phone on your face

 - 22:15 - We are the Brave New World Borg

 - 22:42 - Consumption, overstimulation, distraction

 - 24:00 - My phone is my universe, and is boring

 - 27:00 - DJ's busy life and social media

 - 31:04 - Instagram and visual art

 - 31:40 - Twitter is a writer's resume

 - 33:30 - Unplugged anonymity is a luxury

 - 34:00 - Analog nostalgia vs digital complexity

 - 40:30 - Moving beyond a flash of brilliance

 - 43:20 - "Train I Ride", Paul Mosier

 - 44:13 - Middle ground on Myers-Briggs I/O scale

 - 45:57 - DJ's Poet Pick: T.S. Eliot

 - 49:00 - Cutting the Arts won't save a failed educational system

 - 51:07 - DJ and James fix global climate change

 - 52:05 - Pro Pigeon Party

 - 56:45 - DJ reads "Scarecrow, Road-trip, Clay"

 - 00:10 - New intro music is a tone

 - 01:00 - It's after Halloween and jeans are stupid

 - 02:04 - Science is not a "man thing"

 - 02:24 - James labels Catherine

 - 02:55 - Talking "Squid Game" spoilers

 - 03:47 - James's disbelief not suspended

 - 04:30 - Catherine watched "Squid Game" twice

 - 04:43 - Kang Sae-byeok (067) (HoYeon Jung) is favorite character

 - 05:37 - Catherine's Korean sucks

 - 06:34 - "In-your-face" odd visual experience

 - 07:00 - James prefers aesthetics of "Foundation"

 - 07:54 - Squid Game is rigged game?

 - 08:41 - "001" absolute POS

 - 11:04 - Stupid BBC article title - "No Squid Game Halloween costumes, New York schools say"

 - 13:25 - "Office Jason" horrified Catherine

 - 15:27 - "Tiananmen Tank Guy"

 - 16:48 - "Squid Game" uplifting message

 - 20:00 -  Hunger Games v Squid v high school

 - 24:00 - Artist Christmas gift ideas and duds (mostly duds)

 - 27:28 - MasterClass.com

 - 29:20 -  Don't give books to artists

 - 30:30 - Aprons and Bob Ross cups

 - 33:45 - Moving on from oyster shells

 - 36:57 - Just get the Apple pencil

 - 38:19 - Creative people need paper

 - 41:15 - Don't frame bad art

 - 42:30 - Screen printing kit is James's best idea!

 - 43:40 - Scratch board helps with shadows

 - 00:20 - Welcome Ing Yeen!

 - 01:20 - Hardcore gamers, inner farmers

 - O2:20 - James on fashion

 - 03:04 - Photojournalist and fashion dreams

 - 03:15 - Ing "went for it" 2013 Seoul Fashion Week

 - 04:10 - Don't wait to do anything!

 - 06:00 - Ing breaks down Fashion Week

 - 07:00 - Ing is a one-man show

 - 09:00 - Newbies & K-pop fans get in the way

 - 10:57 - After party: food and random celebrities

 - 12:30 - "Fashion blur" (after 30 shows)

 - 13:43 - Celebrity-centric K-pop designs

 - 14:44 - Will James be a mistaken superstar?

 - 16:36 - James and the foreign front row face

 - 19:40 - Rude people photo bomb Ing's interviews (and must die)

 - 21:10 - James suggests a taser, Ing likes idea!

 - 23:00 - Katherine tasing a defenseless watermelon

 - 25:30 - Sewing machine vs table saw

 - 27:36 - Tropic Escape helps us escape

 - 28:30 - James prefers shooting games

 - 29:32 - Squid Game in 5 minutes

 - 33:23 - Ing cried writing gameshow subtitles!

 - 34:24 - James gets his cat

 - 34:49 - American language cringe moment

 - 35:09 - Ing was raised on American TV

 - 36:38 - "I Dream Of Jeannie" 70's flat

 - 40:30 - Ing is owed retroactive goodie bags!

 - 41:50 - Ing makes the world a better place!

 - 42:48 - Ing is our International Tea Spiller!

 - 00:29 - Art barn body parts

 - 02:37 - Crockpot and 2AM zucchini

 - 05:05 - Alive artists of the week

 - 05:33 - Shredded Banksy revisited

 - 09:17 - Pile of painted strips

 - 10:05 - A moment for the Curators

 - 13:00 - Hire 160 painters for greater ROI

 - 13:59 - Shatner goes full space groundhog

 - 15:10 - Las Vegas Stratosphere Big Shot

 - 16:25 - James's fantasy Captain Kirk

 - 17:59 - "Evil Uhura" exposed midriff

 - 19:05 - OG Star Trek could be painful

 - 21:45 - Who's your captain?

 - 22:55 - "Deep Space 9" IS a TV show

 - 23:10 - Well deserved co-hosts

 - 23:50 - William Merritt Chase

 - 24:00 - "White Rose" AKA "Miss Jesup"

 - 25:04 - James went to RISD but still has room in his heart to love Parsons too

 - 26:58 - Hollywood implodes the Rose

 - 27:20 - Gessoed torso found

 - 28:03 - American Impressionism

 - 28:24 - "Bessie Potter" portrait

 - 29:20 - Masterful capturing of light

 - 31:10 - History of Parsons

 - 32:32 - James and the over sexed paragraph

 - 34:00 - We all need a Making Space

 - 39:00 - ASU has a Maker Lab

 - 39:20 - COVID is still a thing

 - 40:30 - Just get vaccinated

 - 42:00 - Good art, bad art, COVID bashing, done

 - 01:20 - ARTnews

 - O2:10 - Securitizing artwork is a stupid idea

 - 04:40 - 'Art' = infinite con-game

 - 05:24 - Santa Fe "Rembrandt plates"

 - 06:28 - James vs extradition

 - 08:48 - Scum sucking vampires

 - 09:17 - Art, baseball cards, whatever

 - 10:13 - Three threads of a Picasso

 - 10:35 - Full-on Ferengi Fantasy

 - 10:47 - Barely a Trekie

 - 12:02 - Star Trek is social commentary

 - 13:26 - Catherine goes to a compost pile

 - 14:03 - Was it a grub?

 - 14:56 - La Brea Tar Pits in an alley

 - 15:30 - Next time go to Costco

 - 16:25 - Pills vs horse paste vs science

 - 18:24 - Scariest stuff is real life

 - 19:44 - "Do our own research"

 - 21:15 - Spain is open!

 - 22:28 - Why flip a coin? Get vaccinated!

 - 22:35 - Artist of the Week - Cinta Vidal

 - 23:42 - MC Escher with humanity https://mcescher.com

 - 24:40 - Want to live inside her painting

 - 25:30 - James channels Tina Fey

 - 27:00 - "Escher-esque", not derivative

 - 28:28 - No camping in compost

 - 30:00 - Internet lacks horror, Goya delivers

 - 30:24 - "Saturn Devouring His Son", Goya

 - 31:00 - Mythology is confusing

 - 33:48 - This is horror in painting

 - 35:17 - "The Third of May 1808", Goya

 - 36:10 - Back to Cinta, end on high note

 - 37:23 - Duc Vuong, MD on YouTube

 - 38:42 - Skewed risk perception

 - 39:32 - Dr. Kat Epidemiologist on TikTok

 - 40:42 - Staying in our bubbles

 - 00:10 - James goes to the doctor and gets sick

 - 02:18 - "Crap-tacular"

 - 02:28 - Happy October!

 - 03:00 - Chloe takes the sofa

 - 04:38 - Catherine's jumping chihuahua!

 - 06:28 - Cats and murder

 - 07:25 - Veterinarians are the best!

 - 08:17 - James is the wrong species

 - 09:42 - An appointment next year

 - 10:32 - Who does a doctor work for?

 - 12:42 - The laundry goes on and on

 - 13:43 - Marie Kondo who?

 - 14:28 - The "zero joy" sponge

 - 15:00 - "Capsule wardrobe" is the term

 - 17:27 - Everyone wants to smash Catherine's phone

 - 19:24 - Buried paintings and books

 - 19:44 - Subtle Heatstroke Podcast plug!

 - 19:48 - Taliban Twitter?

 - 21:10 - 1980's England "Crying Child" paintings

 - 21:43 - Well written "spooky" article

 - 22:48 - LED eyes

 - 24:52 - How do we make a spooky painting?

 - 26:10 - We are brains in vats

 - 26:36 - Algorithms and faces everywhere

 - 27:33 - People love spooky stuff

 - 28:14 - Danish museum wants its money back

 - 28:56 - 3000 Euros for "Kabul" time!

 - 30:06 - "Take The Money And Run"

 - 32:40 - Put your money where your clock is

 - 33:15 - Cleo barks

 - 33:32 - Cleo's walk of shame

 - 00:14 - Life of a podcaster, always dull never off

 - 00:20 - Catherine had a container

 - 00:56 - Why are you looking at your phone?

 - 01:32 - Let's talk about the art!

 - 01:37 - Deconstructing the Arts Insider article

 - 01:45 - Finding the art online

 - 02:12 - Is invisible art hard art? Or just hard to understand?

 - 02:29 - Conning someone into buying your work?

 - 02:34 - This is worth $100. No $10,000!

 - 02:52 - $30k is so accessible

 - 03:15 - Prius is too small for Catherine's needs

 - 03:45 - Fred Flintstone and the Mustang

 - 03:49 - A Prius is definitely not a Mustang

 - 04:10 - Disintegrating Mustang, welcome to Ford

 - 04:24 - 2020 art market down, online buying up

 - 04:45 - No more galleries for James

 - 05:00 - Important to see the work in person

 - 05:25 - Jessica Silverman's "Hayal Pozanti"

 - 06:24 - Art interaction and energetic field

 - 08:40 - Art on Instagram

 - 09:10 - Revisiting "Virtual Phoestivus 2020"

 - 10:09 - Can't compete against Netflix!

 - 10:45 - Acceleration of pandemic trends

 - 12:36 - James is on Pixels.com

 - 14:42 - TikTok delivery experience

 - 15:05 - Pins are a big thing these days

 - 15:27 - Deconstructing the "unboxing thing"

 - 18:48 - NFTs and how collecting is different

 - 20:00 - Circling back to garbage "Art-ivists"

 - 22:15 - Tan Zi Xi's "Plastic Ocean"

 - 22:29 - "Disney-ification" of a message?

 - 24:17 - Recycled items are a medium vs activism

 - 26:00 - 40 year old copper pipe bracelets

 - 28:38 - Don't cancel James for this bad ideas

 - 28:56 - Soylent Green is people

 - 29:27 - Robert Bradford plastic sculpture

 - 31:27 - James is a "thing person"

 - 32:07 - Garbage vs collectible

 - 33:05 - Switchboard shelving unit

 - 34:30 - House flipping lessons learned

 - 35:18 - Salvaging old growth teak boxes

 - On paper

 - Awful print

 - Outdoor

 - Sky Cathedral

 - Column

 - 00:12 - Bacon forgeries

 - 01:18 - Is Colbert listening to SubRant?

 - 01:28 - Catherine eats 'fake' bacon

 - 02:30 - The "googling" of Rick Steves

 - 04:05 - Inspiration from garbage

 - 04:35 - Clothing landfills in Africa

 - 05:44 - Recycled clothing into art

 - 06:24 - Let's just talk about Louise Nevelson

 - 07:20 - Repeatedly pronouncing "assemblage"

 - 08:37 - Everyone is credited with influencing Abstract Expressionism

 - 08:46 - Deconstructing "The Scream" - A "really off" Van Gogh

 - 09:24 - Do you have an Xbox?

 - 10:25 - Honing endoscopy skills via Halo?

 - 10:45 - James's wife hides from the aliens

 - 11:05 - Catherine borders on nihilistic

 - 12:03 - Compelling monochromatic boxy work

 - 13:02 - Inspiration: Mannequins from garbage

 - 16:40 - Scale is everything

 - 17:30 - Protective patina of COR-TEN steel

 - 18:15 - Nevelson created her world

 - 19:48 - Vertical pieces, rhythm, "Seventh Decade Garden 9 & 10"

 - 20:21 - Master of Composition

 - 20:40 - Between interior design and fine art

 - 21:02 - The environment and rectilinear border

 - 21:22 - Can you really do this?

 - 21:37 - Some recycled "art" looks like garbage

 - 22:20 - Would take years to level up

 - 23:07 - New York was her palette

 - 23:20 - Art stores are overwhelming & sterile

 - 23:56 - James is drawn to found items

 - 24:30 - From the ground of Vegas parking lot

 - 25:10 - Boxes of stuff with no purpose

 - 25:21 - TikTok found object artist/geologist

 - 26:23 - James just wants to cut up graham cracker boxes

 - 26:40 - Saving Lays potato chip bags

 - 27:30 - Non-recyclable flexible plastic/metal food packaging

 - 29:00 - Palm tree torsos?

 - 29:55 - You need to get dirty for your art!

 - 30:24 - Rewinding to Nevelson

 - 30:40 - Comparing Nevelson to Rothko

 - 33:03 - Roots in Cubism

 - 33:27 - Diego Rivera, pre-Columbian influence

 - 34:07 - Representative of their time

 - 34:34 - Does gender-bias exist in art?

 - 35:15 - Art critic legends in our own minds

 - 35:27 - Thank you for listening!

 - 35:49 - "Assemblage" one more time

 - 01:29- "Joining Plastic, Glass, and Metal On the Recycle List: Fake Art" (NY Times paywall)

 - 01:35 - It's not about recycling

 - 01:50 - Commas trigger James

 - 02:15 - Pretentious words trigger James

 - 03:25 - Art world vs elites vs the masses

 - 03:36 - Language as a weapon?

 - 03:45 - Catherine sums article up in seconds, but they will talk about it for 20 minutes

 - 04:00 - Most of the fake art is not destroyed

 - 04:10 - The only recycling is that fake pieces keep showing up for sale and authentication

 - 04:15 - If everyone is upset about forgeries, just destroy them!

 - 04:30 - Catalogues of fakes as teaching tools

 - 04:45 - If a piece has merits, does the author really matter?

 - 04:56 - "Tyranny of authorship"

 - 05:40 - Celebrate the work, not the author

 - 06:28 - Forged pieces are stamped, retained, and potentially resurface in art world

 - 07:58 - Deconstructing authentication

 - 08:54 - The case of the "thrift store Pollack"

 - 09:44 - It's a sleazy market

 - 10:00 - Once a forgery, always a forgery?

 - 10:55 - Bad stamp

 - 11:30 - James holds back re: Damien Hirst

 - 12:23 - Digression about makers' marks

 - 13:54 - The found piece will not be destroyed

 - 14:20 - Catherine has a knack!

 - 15:12 - Unanswered questions

 - 15:55 - Who authenticates the authenticator?

 - 17:00 - James proposes a "forgery registry", Catherine suggests putting a notch in it!

 - 19:12 - James approves NY Times web design

 - 20:10 - What bikinis?

 - 21:50 - Both Chagall's in article are forgeries

 - 23:05 - Just didn't get any vibes

 - 23:45 - Catherine proposes recycling ideas

 - 25:00 - Authenticator's opposing specialties: Egon Schiele vs Grandma Moses

 - 26:17 - Deconstructing the term "Folk Art"

 - 27:00 - The genius of Grandma Moses

 - 28:27 - Villeroy & Boch "Naif" pattern

 - 29:00 - The term Folk Art is purely marketing

 - 30:00 - Again, the work must stand on its own

 - 30:12 - Training does not beget great work

 - 31:50 - "Craft" is legit

 - 32:25 - Catherine "paints" with fibers

 - 32:43 - Affirmation is great

 - 33:45 - Was this an angry podcast?

 - 34:05 - Next week, Louise Nevelson and a discussion of "recycling" in art

Visit our website to see the artwork we discuss this episode

 - 00:05 - Christopher is back

 - 00:20 - Never say never about Basquiat

 - 00:48 - It's easy to enable James' bad ideas

 - 01:00 - "Art Off Octagon": Basquiat v Rockwell

 - 01:25 - Catherine loosely introduces Basquiat

 - 01:48 - James seriously describes Rockwell

 - 02:30 - Comparing works, overcoming blindspots, seeking consensus

 - 02:49 - Catherine gets roasted for her first impression of Rockwell's "Glen Canyon Dam" as Cowboy Art!

 - 03:50 - Basquiat's "Beef Ribs Longhorn" actually reads as "cowboy"!

 - 04:41 - Catherine chose specific Basquiat works as foils to James' Rockwell selections

 - 06:48 - Catherine agrees with James' critique, and admits to tuning out anything remotely reminiscent of Cowboy Art

 - 08:10 - Did Rockwell "punk" the Department of Interior with this commissioned piece?

 - 08:40 - Christopher dissects the political undertones of the piece

 - 09:10 - Delving deeper into the paintings negative images and birds of prey

 - 11:12 - Criteria 1: First Impression

 - 11:39 - Criteria 2: Evoke feeling

 - 12:02 - Criteria 3: Use of medium

 - 12:23 - Criteria 4: Representative of time period in which it was created

 - 12:30 - Nobody likes the birds! (Except James, but no one listens to him)

 - 13:20 - Criteria 5: Would you hang this on your wall?

 - 13:45 - Catherine describes Basquiat's "Beef Ribs Longhorn", not rib-eye

 - 15:40 - The words in piece imply "doom"

 - 16:13 - Deconstructing 1980's aliens, butcher shops and the words

 - 17:17 - The cow is sad

 - 18:54 - Catherine sees different themes, James sees no poetic narrative

 - 19:50 - Christopher described how these two works are similar

 - 21:17 - James remains unconvinced

 - 21:23 - Lack of framing evokes rawness

 - 22:15 - The survey says, Catherine and Christopher would hang it on their wall

 - 25:32 - James steps away, Christopher and Catherine decide that continuing this exercise will yield similar results

 - 25:47 - Is comparison fair or necessary?

 - 27:30 - The conclusions remain the same

 - 28:08 - Basquiat's "raw punch" vs Rockwell's focus on detail

 - 28:30 - Basquiat's "Untitled 1982" vs Rockwell's " The Connoisseur"

 - 28:37 - How would Basquiat have evolved?

 - 30:02- "The Connoisseur" is and is not a Jackson Pollock

 - 32:57 - One more. James passionately describes Rockwell's "Lost In Paris" as a "10"

 - 35:50 - Complex emotion vs raw emotion

 - 36:26 - Rockwell's "New Kids In The Neighborhood"

 - 39:40 - Rockwell exits The Octagon

 - 40:20 - Any Basquiat for Catherine's wall

 - 40:59 - "What could have been" with Basquiat?

 - 42:10 - A trio of art nerds