In this episode, we talk to N. Katherine Hayles who's the distinguished research professor at the University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) and the James B. Duke Professor Emerita from Duke University. Her prolific research focuses on the relationship between science, literature and technology in the 20th and 21st centuries. We explore her newest book, Bacteria to AI: Human Futures with Our Nonhuman Symbionts, and discuss how the biological concept of symbiosis can inform the relationships we have with AI; how a neural network experiences the world; and whether ChatGPT can be conscious.