Joe Trippi was the campaign manager who first worked out how to use the internet in campaigning. I met him about a decade ago and was fascinated with his campaigning exploits — including taking Howard Dean from backmarker to presidential frontrunner in 2004. Many of the architects of the online campaigning that took Obama to the White House came from the Dean campaign that Joe engineered.   Anyway, in this podcast we talk a little about how even back then I had a more wary expectation of how things would turn out. See for instance this essay. And I was also thinking about the way citizens’ juries could detox our politics. Since Joe's trying to save democracy from further degeneration, we talked about what it could contribute in our current dire times. The interview was recorded before Russia's invasion of Ukraine.