Take 5

Legendary Brisbane band Powderfinger broke the internet when they announced a long-awaited reunion tour.

The band sold out 26 shows across the country, and today announced extra shows, new cities, and an epic line-up of all-Australian support acts.

Joining them on the road next year will be bands like Violent Soho, Thelma Plum, Ball Park Music, You Am I, Something For Kate, The Living End, John Butler Trio, Teen Jesus and the Jean Teasers + more.

Bernard Fanning and Darren Middleton joined Zan Rowe to talk about what prompted the reunion, and how they feel about being back on stage next year. 

Take 5 is turning 20!

It started back in 2006 as a weekly radio segment on triple j, and since then it's grown into an award-winning podcast, and a beloved TV show in its sixth season.

The list of people who have graced the Take 5 is epic: Lorde, Jack Antonoff, Kevin Bacon, Paul Kelly, Mel C from the Spice Girls, Bernard Fanning, there's even been a Beatle (Sir Paul McCartney!).

To mark this special 20th anniversary, Zan Rowe has dug into some old shoe boxes and dusted off minidiscs and DAT tapes to bring to you a selection of vintage Take 5s.

These special episodes haven't been heard by anyone in nearly 2 decades.

From an absolute treasure trove of conversations, you'll hear from Calvin Harris, Anna Calvi, Aloe Blacc, DJ Annie Mac, and punk rock legend Denis from Refused.

20 Years of Take 5 songs:

• AC / DC - 'Back In Black' (picked by Denis from Refused)
• Little Dragon - 'Ritual Union' (picked by DJ Annie Mac)
• Foo Fighters - 'Best of You' (picked by Aloe Blacc)
• David Bowie - 'Sound And Vision' (picked by Anna Calvi)
• Groove Armada - 'Get Down' (picked by Calvin Harris)

00:00 Introduction: 20 Years of Take 5

01:33 Dennis Lyxzén from Refused: The Reformation

04:15 "The Shape of Punk to Come": Ahead of the Curve

08:24 Rehearsals and Coachella: "The Best Band We Could Possibly Ever Be"

10:42 First song: AC/DC 'Back in Black'

12:22 Annie Mac: BBC Radio 1 and the Friday Night Show

17:07 Second song: Little Dragon 'Ritual Union'

21:13 Aloe Blacc: From Hip Hop to Soul

25:31 Cat Stevens, Joni Mitchell and the Rat Pack: College Discoveries

26:52 Third song: Foo Fighters 'Best of You'

29:48 Anna Calvi: Songs of Desire and the Laneway Festival

33:42 Ennio Morricone, Bowie and a Roman Grandfather's Tangos

36:03 Fourth song: David Bowie 'Sound And Vision'

38:09 Calvin Harris: Amiga Trackers and Bedroom Production

42:38 Working with Kylie and Kathy Dennis: "Bring the Party"

44:37 Fifth song: Groove Armada 'Get Down' 

46:40 20 Years Later: Take Five as a Time Capsule

Pia Miranda is joy personified.

From her first TV gig on Neighbours, where her character Karen dated Toadie and made a dramatic final exit from the show holding a pavlova, to her breakthrough turn as Josie in Looking for Alibrandi, she has been one of Australia's most beloved screen actors for 25 years. But it's her second act that's surprised everyone, including herself: winning Australian Survivor in a unanimous vote, singing in a thong costume (the footwear kind) on The Masked Singer, and now co-hosting ABC TV's Recipe of the Year.

Growing up Irish-Italian Australian in Melbourne, Pia trained as a ballet dancer and dreamed of being Judy Garland. She studied performance art at university, imagined a future in avant-garde dance, and instead became the unofficial ambassador for a generation's coming-of-age experience. Looking for Alibrandi wasn't just a film, it became a cultural touchstone.

Her north star is simple: if something brings joy, she says yes. She is warm, funny, and completely herself, a quality she credits, in part, to an encounter with R.E.M.'s Michael Stipe on Melbourne's Chapel Street in 1995.

Pia Miranda's 'joie de vivre' songs: 

• Pulp - 'This is Hardcore'
• Judy Garland - 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow'
• R.E.M. - 'It's the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine)'
• Cat Stevens - 'Miles from Nowhere'
• Umberto Tozzi - 'Gloria'

00:00 Introduction: Pia Miranda, Joy Personified

01:15 Saying Yes: "Something Scares Me, But I'll Do It Anyway"

04:12 First Song: Pulp, 'This is Hardcore'

04:26 Jarvis Cocker: The Hall Pass and a Life-Changing Live Show

09:51 1998: CDs, Share Houses and Peak '90s

10:42 Neighbours: Karen, Toadie and the Pavlova Exit

14:14 Looking for Alibrandi: "We're Really Good in That"

19:34 Second Song: Judy Garland, 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow'

19:55 The Wizard of Oz: "It's Pia's Night"

24:20 Recipe of the Year: The CWA and the Joy of Food

28:44 Third Song: R.E.M., 'It's the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine)'

29:04 Free Tickets and Chapel Street: When R.E.M. Came to Town

34:47 Australian Survivor: "I Actually Won"

40:13 The Masked Singer: Playing Thong

42:45 Fourth Song: Cat Stevens, 'Miles from Nowhere'

42:57 Freedom and Travel: The Walkman Dream

48:30 Origin Odyssey: Italian Identity and "Cousins Everywhere"

53:53 Final Song: Umberto Tozzi, 'Gloria'

56:53 Zan's Wrap-Up: 20 Years of Take 5

Watch Recipe of the Year on ABC iview: 

Take 5 is celebrating 20 years, and we're marking the milestone with something special.

Zan Rowe is bringing the show to record stores around the country for four intimate, live conversations with some of Australia's most loved artists:

• The Presets
• Kate Miller-Heidke
• Dan Sultan
• John Butler

Each guest takes on a theme and chooses five songs that speak to it, and what unfolds is always unexpected.

All four live Take 5s will drop right here on the pod throughout November as part of Aus Music Month.

PLUS: before those live shows, we've got a couple of extra special conversations coming your way. Kicking off next week, actor Pia Miranda, one of Australia's most accomplished performers, from Looking for Alibrandi to winning Australian Celebrity Survivor, The Masked Singer, Dancing With the Stars, and currently co-hosting ABC TV's Recipe of the Year. 

And right after that, we bring you one of the most exciting artists of the last decade: Sampa The Great, returning to Take 5 for another chapter in her extraordinary evolution.

So hit follow, favourite this podcast, subscribe, do whatever you need to get ready for a season of Take 5 that'll shift your perspective, make you laugh, introduce you to new songs, and maybe even make you cry.

And while you wait, there's plenty of great Take 5 episodes to explore, from Paul McCartney and Peaches to Tom Waits and TV on the Radio. Take 5 has been a radio and podcast favourite for 20 years. Let's celebrate.

Watch and listen:

Take 5 on ABC iview: https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe

Other Take 5 episodes you might like:

• Paul McCartney Takes 5 - triple j
• Take 5 with Peaches - ABC listen
• Tom Waits' songs that inspired 'Bad As Me' - ABC listen
• Take 5 with TV On The Radio - ABC listen

Vika and Linda Bull are national treasures.

From their early days singing backing vocals with Joe Camilleri and The Black Sorrows to breaking out on their own with acclaimed records, they're part of the very fabric of Australian music, and they do it all in harmony. Their voices have soundtracked decades of Australian life, but it's the story behind those voices that makes them extraordinary.

Growing up in the Melbourne suburb of Doncaster, they lived between two worlds: ordinary suburban school life during the week, and the rich, Tongan culture of their mother's homeland every Sunday at church. It was there, surrounded by four-hour services of soaring Tongan choral singing, that they learned harmony, not through formal lessons, but by feeling the floor vibrate beneath them. Their mother, a Tongan nurse who married an Australian man, taught them their parts at age five: Vika the high, Linda the low. A split that would define their sound for the next four decades.

Their career path was never straightforward. They started in their own band before taking a deliberate side step to join The Black Sorrows as backing vocalists; a six-year apprenticeship under Joe Camilleri that taught them everything from studio technique to stagecraft. It was Vika's voice on "Chained to the Wheel" that transformed the song, and the band's fortunes. But eventually, the pull to tell their own stories became too strong. A difficult conversation with Joe, encouragement from Paul Kelly to try writing, and a year of Thursday afternoon songwriting sessions set them on a new path.

This year, they released an incredibly personal new album reflecting on identity, culture, and mid-life (Where Do You Come From?). They were also inducted into the ARIA Hall of Fame, an honour that still bewilders two women who started as "a couple of backing singers."

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe at Bakehouse Studios in Melbourne, a rehearsal room the Bull sisters know intimately. They were warm, funny, and deeply emotional in exploring their extraordinary life across five songs.

Vika and Linda Bull's song choices: 

• The Maopa Choir and Band - 'Halleluia Chorus (from The Messiah)'
• The Rolling Stones - 'Gimme Shelter'
• Bob Marley and The Wailers - 'Could You Be Loved'
• The Finn Brothers - 'Edible Flowers'
• The Staple Singers - 'Respect Yourself'

00:00 Introduction: Vika and Linda Bull, National Treasures

01:55 Childhood in Doncaster: Singing at Church at Five Years Old

04:15 First Song: The Maopa Choir and Band, 'Halleluia Chorus (from The Messiah)' 

07:11 Two Worlds: Suburban Doncaster and Tongan Culture

14:15 Visiting Tonga: "One of the Best Times of My Life"

15:51 Second Song: The Rolling Stones, 'Gimme Shelter'

20:58 Chained to the Wheel: Stepping Up in The Black Sorrows

23:21 Leaving The Black Sorrows: "We Gotta Give It a Crack"

27:44 Third Song: Bob Marley and The Wailers, 'Could You Be Loved'

30:48 Paul Kelly: "You Should Try Writing Songs"

35:21 The New Album: "Not Scared Anymore"

37:18 The Memoir: Finding the Confidence to Tell Their Story

38:46 The Punk and the Prefect: "Sisters First, Singer Second"

41:15 Fourth Song: The Finn Brothers, 'Edible Flowers'

45:06 Tim and Neil Finn: Sibling Harmony and Songwriting Lessons

47:23 Final Song: The Staple Singers, 'Respect Yourself'

51:38 ARIA Hall of Fame: "We Never Thought That Would Happen"

54:29 Zan's Wrap-Up: Season 5 Finale

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.

Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview 

Genesis Owusu is one of Australia's most thrilling new artists.

Born Kofi Owusu-Ansah, he immigrated to Canberra with his family when he was just two years old. Almost immediately he felt like an odd one out. And he used that feeling to get weird.

20 odd years later, his music, visuals, and storytelling has resonated with millions. He's won the ARIA for Album of the Year twice (first for Smiling with No Teeth in 2021, and then with Struggler in 2023), and leads the nominations again this year for his third album, Redstar Wu & the Worldwide Scourge. All across the world people sing his praises. Barack Obama has a Genesis song on his summer playlist ('Gold Chains'). And he's done it all, his way.

Genesis Owusu's song choices: 

• Cibo Matto - 'Birthday Cake'
• N.E.R.D. - 'Rock Star'
• Lupe Fiasco - 'American Terrorist [Ft. Matthew Santos]'
• Prince - 'All the Critics Love U in New York'
• Tyler, The Creator - 'I Think'

00:00 Introduction: From Ghana to ARIA Award-Winning Musician

02:06 Early Life: Family, Music, and Immigrating to Canberra

04:50 First song: Cibo Matto, 'Birthday Cake' & Jet Set Radio Future

06:35 "Ugly Was Also to Be Appreciated": Why Every Album Opens Abrasive

07:23 The Biggest Creative Influence: Jet Set Radio Future & Video Game Soundtracks

09:29 First Ever Favorite Song: Wu Tang Clan, 'Gravel Pit' (via the Original Xbox)

11:35 Second song: N.E.R.D, 'Rock Star' & Finding His Identity

20:08 The Tree Dream: A One-Man Band Playing to All the School Kids

21:34 First Rap: The Ansah Brothers & Parents' Reaction

25:35 Third song: Lupe Fiasco, 'American Terrorist' & Political Awakening

35:33 Fourth song: Prince, 'All the Critics Love U in New York' & Making Smiling With No Teeth

41:47 Winning the ARIA for Album of the Year

46:14 Side Quests: Learning New Skills Beyond Music

49:41 Fifth song: Tyler, The Creator, 'I Think' & The Power of the Album

51:32 Solange's Unsung Influence on Music Videos

54:59 Fear of Stagnation & Staying True to the 10-Year-Old's Mission

57:55 Wrap-Up & Next Episode Preview of Vika & Linda Bull

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.

Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview 

Take 5: live in record stores

This November, we're heading into record stores with some very special guests - and we want you to come along.

Zan Rowe will visit four record stores in New South Wales and Victoria to record rare, intimate live episodes of the Take 5 podcast, which celebrates 20 years in 2026.

She's pulled out the Rolodex for this one, convincing Aussie legends The Presets, Dan Sultan, Kate Miller-Heidke, and her old mate John Butler to come along for the ride.

Find out all the details here.

Lainey Wilson is a force of nature.

Raised in the tiny farming town of Baskin, Louisiana (population 170) she grew up between corn fields and country radio, where music wasn't a genre but a way of life. From writing her first song at nine years old to hauling a camper trailer to Nashville at 19, her path to becoming one of country music's biggest stars was anything but overnight. It took a decade of hustle, a Hannah Montana wig, and an unshakable belief that if she could just get one opportunity, she could do the rest.

Now she's selling out arenas across the world, winning back-to-back CMA Entertainer of the Year awards, starring in Yellowstone, and counting Dolly Parton as a friend who called her "sister." Through it all, her southern charm and small-town values remain her compass; ride horses, sit on the front porch with your dogs, and never forget who you are.

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Lainey was warm, funny, and generous in sharing her extraordinary journey across five songs. The theme that emerged was clear: staying grounded is a choice you make every day, and being yourself is the bravest thing you can do.

Lainey Wilson's song choices: 

• Mel McDaniel - 'Louisiana Saturday Night'
• Lee Ann Womack - 'I Hope You Dance'
• CCR - 'Lookin' Out My Back Door'
• Brothers Osborne - 'I'm Not For Everyone'
• Tim McGraw - 'Humble and Kind'

00:00 If Dolly Parton Believes in Me, Then I'm Fine

00:24 From Yellowstone to CMA Entertainer of the Year: "Cowgirl of the Night"

00:52 Daddy's Wisdom: "If You Tell All Your Business, You Ain't Got None"

02:44 First song: Mel McDaniel, 'Louisiana Saturday Night'

09:24 Nine Years Old in Nashville: "This Feels Like Home"

12:43 The Hannah Montana Impersonator: Five Years of Birthday Parties

14:39 Second song: Lee Ann Womack, 'I Hope You Dance'

19:00 Nashville Is a 10-Year Town and It Was Spot On

20:13 19 Years Old, 2011: A Camper Trailer Hauled to Nashville

23:19 Heart Like a Truck: The Breakthrough Single

25:59 Third song: CCR, 'Looking Out My Back Door'

30:13 Yellowstone, Grammys, and CMA Entertainer of the Year: "Since Taylor Swift"

30:49 "My Mind Is Always Racing": ADHD and the Song 'Can't Sit Still'

33:00 Fourth song: Brothers Osborne, 'I'm Not For Everyone'

37:52 TJ Coming Out as Gay: "Is Country Becoming More Welcoming?"

42:01 Fifth song: Tim McGraw, 'Humble and Kind'

45:09 Writing a Letter to Tim McGraw at 18: "All I Need Is an Opportunity"

47:07 Mama Meeting Dolly: "You're Like My Sister"

49:13 New Album: "Showing a Different Side and Pushing the Boundaries"

50:51 Zan's Wrap-Up: "I Could Listen to Her Speak All Day Long"

51:11 Watch Take 5 With Shania Twain on ABC iview

51:22 Next Time: Genesis Owusu

51:58 From Ghana to Canberra: "We Don't Have Time for the Honey and the Dress-Ups"

52:21 Season 5 of Take 5 With Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iview

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.

Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview 

Jacinda Ardern is a history-maker.

As Prime Minister of New Zealand at 37, she became only the second woman in the world to give birth while in office. But it was her leadership style that defined her time at the top, leading with empathy and kindness in the face of back-to-back tragedies, and showing the strength of coming together.

From growing up in small-town New Zealand singing country and western duets with her sister at the local community hall, to raging to Smashing Pumpkins in her first car with a discman plugged into the cassette deck, Ardern's musical taste has always been eclectic and deeply personal. She's the teenager who loved alternative music and heavy metal while being a dedicated student rep raised in the Mormon faith, and the world leader who chose a drum and bass track as her walk-on song.

Her career path was never straightforward. She ran from the possibility of becoming a politician, buying a one-way ticket to New York to escape the suggestion she should run for office. But a sense of responsibility (what she calls her "oversized sense of duty"), kept pulling her back. In 2017, everything changed in a single year: a by-election, deputy leadership, then the top job itself, all while secretly pregnant. She led her country through the Christchurch mosque shootings, the Whakaari White Island eruption, and a global pandemic, all while insisting that being human is not a weakness.

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe at the Australian Chamber Orchestra's studios on Sydney Harbour. Jacinda caught the ferry to the location, rolling up without any entourage, proving just how down-to-earth she is. She was candid, emotional, and generous in exploring her extraordinary life across five songs. The theme that emerged was clear: optimism as a courageous act, and the enduring power of being useful.

Jacinda Ardern's song choices: 

• Smashing Pumpkins - 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings'
• Fat Freddy's Drop - 'Wandering Eye'
• Cat Stevens - 'Peace Train'
• The Mountain Goats - 'This Year'
• Shapeshifter - 'Stars'

00:00 Introduction: Jacinda Ardern Made History

00:54 "They Are Us": Leading with Empathy and Kindness

05:11 Song One: Smashing Pumpkins, 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings'

08:01 Teenage Angst: Rage Against the Machine, Metallica, Pantera, Nine Inch Nails

15:04 Song Two: Fat Freddy's Drop, 'Wandering Eye'

15:46 Sworn In as PM: Fat Freddy's Drop Playing on Parliament Steps

21:25 Cognitive Dissonance: Progressive Politics and the Church

22:02 Leaving the Church: "Something Had to Give"

25:39 Secretly Pregnant During Coalition Negotiations

27:49 Song Three: Cat Stevens, 'Peace Train'

28:55 Yusuf Islam Coming to New Zealand After the March 15 Terror Attack

33:13 The Christchurch Mosque Shootings: Finding Out in Bits

34:47 "Simply a Human Response": Why Emotion Isn't Weakness

37:25 "A Sadness I'll Carry for the Rest of My Life"

38:21 Song Four: The Mountain Goats, 'This Year'

41:19 Christchurch, Whakaari, COVID: "It Was Relentless"

45:43 "Nothing Left in the Tank"

46:54 "I Am Human. Politicians Are Human."

49:10 Song Five: Shapeshifter, 'Stars'

52:06 The Coffee Date with Clarke: Surprising Each Other

56:10 "15-Year-Old Jacinda Would Be Very Surprised. But I Think She'd Be Proud."

58:29 Zan's Wrap-Up: The Only World Leader with Drum and Bass as a Walk-On Song

58:44 Filmed at the ACO Studios on Sydney Harbour

59:10 Next Time: Lainey Wilson

59:55 Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iview

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.

Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview

David Byrne is a music icon.

With Talking Heads, or his many wild collaborations, and as an acclaimed solo artist, he's continually pushed the boundaries of sound, crafting some of the most iconic live performances of our time.

Over five decades, he's never stopped asking why. His curiosity has driven an extraordinary creative life that stretches way beyond music: on canvas, in writing, filmmaking, composing musicals. He's even designed bike racks.

From hearing Bob Dylan's mysterious words on a tiny radio and discovering James Brown's interlocking grooves, to forming Talking Heads at the Rhode Island School of Design and moving to New York's CBGB scene, Byrne has always followed his curiosity wherever it leads. He wrote his very first song, "Psycho Killer," as a test to see if he could write one at all, and it became an instant classic.

His collaborations read like a who's who of music history: Brian Eno, Arthur Russell, Parliament-Funkadelic, and even Celia Cruz. His 1984 concert film Stop Making Sense with Jonathan Demme remains one of the most celebrated live performances ever captured. And decades later, he's still rearranging his classic songs, finding new meaning in them, sometimes discovering, as with "Life During Wartime," that they feel more real and more close than ever.

This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe in a recording studio in Sydney while David Byrne was in Australia touring over the 2025/26 summer. He was jubilant, fascinating, and so generous in exploring his huge life across five songs. As a lifelong DB fan, the theme was clear: curiosity. And as David himself says, the answers don't come in the songs. They come in the live shows, in how we perform and how we are with one another.

David Byrne's song choices:

• James Brown - 'Get On the Good Foot'
• Joubert Singers - 'Stand On The Word' (Larry Levan mix)
• Celia Cruz - 'Cucala'
• James Blake - 'The Wilhelm Scream'
• Caetano Veloso - 'Tropicalia'

00:00 Introduction: A Lifetime of Asking Questions

02:01 Meet David Byrne: Icon, Collaborator, Polymath

02:33 Extended Cut. Watch on ABC iview

02:55 The Theme: Curiosity and the Songs That Spark It

03:25 A Tiny Radio, The Byrds, and the Mysterious Words of Bob Dylan

04:45 James Brown: 'Get On the Good Foot'

05:09 Interlocking Puzzles: "I Treat Every Instrument as a Percussion Instrument"

05:34 The Social Metaphor of Funk. A Penny Drop Moment Decades Later

07:12 First Time Seeing James Brown Live: The Dancing Women Who Weren't Singing

08:37 Art School and Music as a Hobby: "Don't Get Your Hopes Up"

09:23 Rhode Island School of Design: Meeting Chris Frantz

09:52 Putting a Band Together and Writing the First Songs

10:39 Why Write Songs at All? "Just to See If You Could"

11:04 Writing "Psycho Killer" as a Test. And People Liked It

11:31 "Check That Box. I Can Write a Song."

12:12 Influences: James Brown, Disco, Bowie, and the Velvet Underground

12:54 Moving to New York: CBGB, Television, and Patti Smith

13:47 MTV and "Once in a Lifetime": Going Back to Art School for Music Videos

14:26 Joubert Singers: 'Stand On The Word' (Larry Levan mix)

14:53 Gospel in a Disco Club: The Shared Transcendence of Dance and Church

16:31 Hearing Talking Heads in the Clubs: "We've Been Validated"

17:11 My Life in the Bush of Ghosts: When the DJ Picked It

18:00 Losing Yourself: The Body Perceives Music Before the Mind

19:25 Trust and Surrender on the Dance Floor

20:01 Celia Cruz: 'Cucala'

20:41 The Latin Club Down the Street from CBGB

21:06 Dance Music Played Live: Salsa, Hips, and Sensuous Rhythms

21:56 Celia Cruz's Voice: "It Cuts Through Everything"

22:36 A Pinch-Yourself Moment: Recording a Song with Celia Cruz

23:12 Different Worlds: Spangly Outfits, Huge Hairdos, and Skinny Jeans

23:50 Collaborators Expanding: Arthur Russell's Cello Arrangement of "Psycho Killer"

24:44 Adding Parliament-Funkadelic Members: The Universe Keeps Growing

25:23 James Blake: 'The Wilhelm Scream'

26:03 Minimalism: "You Don't Have to Keep Piling Everything On"

26:51 Brian Eno vs. James Blake: Learning to Strip Things Down from a Song

27:18 Seeing James Blake Live and Discovering He's "a Great Singer"

27:43 James Blake the Producer: Pulling Things Apart and Stitching Them Back Together

27:58 Stop Making Sense: Showing the Audience How the Sausage Is Made

28:20 "You're Playing to Tracks, Aren't You?" Proving It's All Live

28:45 Breaking a Song Apart Onstage: One Instrument at a Time

29:09 Wireless Instruments and Witchcraft

29:21 Caetano Veloso: 'Tropicalia'

30:27 Caetano Celebrating Everything: "We Can Say Yes to All These Things"

30:50 A Mentor Who Keeps Evolving: "I Want to Be Able to Do That"

31:59 Political Messages in Flower Language: Getting Ideas Past the Censors

32:35 Learning from Caetano and Celia Cruz: Protest Songs Don't Have to Shout

32:58 "Years Ago, I Was an Angry Man"

33:31 Rearranging the Old Songs: They're Recognisable, But the Meaning Changes

33:57 Playing "Life During Wartime" Today: "It Seems Too Real, Too Close"

34:46 Licensing News Footage: "It Takes Your Breath Away"

35:17 Songs That Evolve Personally and Globally. Communion in Concert

36:32 What an Absolute Joy: David Byrne Across Five Songs

36:56 Next Time: Jacinda Ardern

37:31 Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iview

This episode was filmed for season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.

Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview: 

When you look back at the Australian artists who've made their mark internationally, Savage Garden are right up there. 

Two guys from Brisbane who went Number 1 around the world, cracked the notoriously tough U.S. market and sold nearly 30 million albums with hits like 'I Want You', 'To The Moon And Back', and 'Truly Madly Deeply'.

 They may have only been together for two albums, but the legacy of their pop breakthrough continues, as does frontman Darren Hayes' incredible story.

While he was sailing the highs of global fame, behind the scenes, Darren was dealing with a fractured band relationship, battling depression, and in the closet, unable to be truly himself. 

As a now proudly out gay man, he continues to sing his stories as a solo artist, but the road hasn't always been smooth sailing. 

Growing up in Logan, Queensland, the youngest of three in a home shadowed by severe domestic violence, who could have predicted that this sensitive kid who loved to sing would one day stand on the world's biggest stages?

Darren's story is extraordinary: 250 rejection letters before anyone would sign Savage Garden, a manager who mortgaged his home to make it happen, and a partnership with Daniel Jones that produced some of the most iconic pop of the '90s before it all came crashing down. There have been plenty of lows too; being told by his own record company to hide who he was, the sudden loss of his mother, and a terrifying accident that shattered his jaw and nearly ended his singing career for good. But Darren Hayes is back, and he's got stories.

This episode was captured at Chaplin Studios in Los Angeles, which was the building originally built by Charlie Chaplin, later home to A&M Records, and the exact room where "We Are the World" was recorded (Quincy Jones directing Michael Jackson, Diana Ross, Bob Dylan, Cyndi Lauper, and a room full of legends). It's a space steeped in music history, and if you believe the people who work there, a few ghosts as well. It was the perfect place to sit down with Darren and travel through a life defined by music, survival, and healing.

Darren Hayes' song choices: 

• The Dream Academy - 'Life in a Northern Town'
• HAIM - 'Hallelujah'
• Young The Giant - 'The Walk Home'
• Coldplay - 'O'
• Maisie Peters – 'Two Weeks Ago'

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene at Chaplin Studios

02:31 The History of Chaplin Studios: From Charlie Chaplin to A&M Records

04:00 Karen Carpenter's Ghost and the Sacred Walls

05:13 The Theme: Songs of Healing and Music Saving a Life

05:41 Growing Up with Domestic Violence in Logan, Queensland

06:05 Music as Escape: AM Radio, The Carpenters, and Auntie Jenny's Records

06:56 Learning to Sing from Diana Ross and His Mother's Voice

08:01 The Dream Academy - 'Life in a Northern Town'

08:50 Catharsis Through Melancholy and the Sentimentality of Childhood

10:52 Transitions: Missing His Siblings and "The Morning Lasted All Day"

12:12 The End of High School and Not Wanting to Grow Up

14:23 Growing Up in Logan: Feeling Like a Prince Despite Poverty

15:12 A Hyper-Masculine World and Making Star Wars Toys Kiss

15:44 Deciding He Was Famous at Age Ten: Protective Armor Against Bullying

16:38 Being Called the F Word by His Father Before He Knew What It Meant

18:05 Either Be Famous and Magical, or Die

18:27 His Job Was to Keep His Mother Alive

19:21 Hockey Sticks and Midnight Escapes: Surviving His Father's Violence

20:15 Haim - 'Hallelujah'

21:02 The Sound of Grace: Guardian Angels and Being Protected

21:58 Being Uninvited from a Party and His Mother's Comfort

23:30 "You've Got a Hallelujah": Surviving Childhood

24:46 When Did Music Become the Path? High School Choir and Musical Theatre

25:50 Feeling the Molecules Change When He Sang

27:57 The First Band: A Death Metal Audition and Joining Red Edge with Daniel Jones

29:26 Throwing Up on the Way to Toowoomba: Playing Aussie Classics He Didn't Know

30:14 Leaving Red Edge and the Beginning of Savage Garden

31:05 The First Song They Wrote Together: A Thousand Words

31:25 The Australian Music Landscape: Grunge vs. Pop and 250 Rejection Letters

33:26 John Woodruff Mortgaged His Home and No One Was Laughing Anymore

33:46 Global Fame, Fans as Mirrors, and the Exhausting Rollercoaster

35:58 Secrets: Being Gay, Depression, and the Record Company Hiding Who He Was

36:45 Young The Giant - 'The Walk Home'

37:24 Why Savage Garden Ended: Daniel's Unhappiness with Fame

37:49 The Sum of the Parts and Beatlesque Chemistry in the Studio

38:32 Touring the World Knowing It Was Over

39:51 His Relationship with Daniel Now: "We Don't Talk Much Anymore"

41:21 Solo Records, Coming Out, and the Album Called Homosexual

42:01 Queer Fans and the First Dapple of Sunlight

42:49 What His Mother Thought of Fame: She Couldn't Have Given a Shit

43:47 Paying Cash for a House So His Mother Could Finally Leave

44:48 Coldplay - 'O'

45:08 Grief, Letting Go, and the Sudden Loss of His Mother

46:43 Choosing This Song for Her Funeral

47:22 The Flock of Birds Metaphor and Cutting the Tether

48:15 "I Had to Let Her Go Like a Beautiful Balloon"

50:18 The Accident: A Vasovagal Syncope Episode That Shattered His Jaw

50:44 Seventeen Teeth Broken, Mouth Wired Shut for Three Months, and Learning to Sing Again

51:02 The Troubadour Comeback: "If I Don't Get Back on Stage, I May Never"

51:51 What It Felt Like: Love

52:18 Carrying His Mother's DNA in His Heart and Vocal Cords

52:49 Maisie Peters - 'Two Weeks Ago'

53:14 In Love: How His Dog Huxley Found Eddie

54:38 Four Blocks Apart for a Decade and Zoom Dates with a New Partner

55:41 Never Spending a Night Apart in Three Years

56:23 2027: The 30th Anniversary of Savage Garden and a New Record

56:48 Writing Melodies with His Mouth Wired Shut

57:39 "I'm Back, Baby"

58:53 Next Time: David Byrne

59:53 Take 5 with Zan Rowe – Stream the Series on ABC iview

This episode was filmed for season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.

Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview: https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe

There are parts of this conversation that explore Darren’s experiences with family violence. It’s a big part of his story, so please be warned. And if you need support, here are some resources who provide it:

• 1800 Respect National Helpline on 1800 737 732
• Lifeline on 131 114
• Men's Referral Service on 1300 766 491
• Mensline on 1300 789 978
• Full Stop Australia on 1800 385 578
• Emergency services on triple-0 if you need immediate care