Tell Me About Your Mother

In this episode, we dive into a fresh look at EMDR therapy and how new research reframes it as “working memory therapy.” We explore the cultural differences in how trauma and sexuality are discussed in clinical training, the challenges of certification in our field, and the ways client conversations about sex, cursing, and honesty become litmus tests for therapeutic trust. Along the way, we swap stories on therapy frustrations, parenting young adults, and how history and culture shape our work as clinicians.

• The hidden costs of certifications and ROI in therapy careers 
• How Dutch researchers approach EMDR and trauma treatment differently 
• Why EMDR might be better understood as “working memory therapy” 
• Cultural contrasts: bluntness about sex/trauma in Dutch trainings vs U.S. squeamishness 
• Therapy rapport: clients opening up about sex and cursing as signs of safety 
• Parenting struggles: guiding a 20-year-old through clutter, college, and career choices 
• Therapy frustrations: reflections clients resist, accountability, and ego defenses 
• Books and history: Comanche Nation, whitewashed history, and cultural imperialism 

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Sandra Killebrew is a high-conflict couple therapist with a boutique private practice in Tacoma, WA. She offers therapy intensives for couples in addition to weekly therapy. She likes to get on her soapbox about excellence in therapy, boundaries, telling the truth, even when it hurts, and is not afraid to say fuck. She hosts networking groups in Tacoma & Seattle and is on the board of the International Experiential Dynamic Therapy Association.

• Guest intro: Sandra’s unique style—therapy intensives, strong boundaries, focus on truth-telling, and comfort with conflict.
• Silence in therapy: Why awkward pauses can disarm clients and reveal vulnerability.
• Public scandal discussion: Reflections on power, privilege, and societal judgment (cancel culture parallels).
• Therapist self-disclosure & marketing: Debate over labeling as a “Christian therapist” and how identity marketing affects client expectations.
• Client boundary issues: Stories of invasive consultation questions (“Are you married?” / “Do you believe in God?”) and how they reflect couple dynamics.
• High-acuity training: How early experience with high-crisis clients shapes private practice work.
• Couples therapy dynamics: Why consultations often feel like stepping into a “war zone” and how to hold boundaries.
• Toxic industry norms: Discussion of underqualified providers and the importance of skilled clinical work.

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• Evan shares a personal story from a therapy group where power and bias were misused
• How therapists can be abusive — even to other therapists
• The danger of bringing personal values, beliefs, or shame agendas into the therapy room
• Why opacity (not transparency) can be safer and more ethical for clients
• Reader bias and how it distorts perception in clinical work
• The myth of sexuality as a binary on/off switch
• The shame response and how it gets used as a tool of control
• Why many men feel disempowered in therapy
• Concerns about therapists vetting clients based on values, appearance, or assumptions
• Questions around what “aggressive therapy” really means and who defines it
• Reflections on transference, group process, and emotional safety
• Reminder: Therapy is the client’s space, not the therapist’s platform

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Evan and Melissa do a brief review of the Netflix show "Adolescence," mostly focusing on the third episode and the intervention strategies of the Forensic Psychologist. 

• Foresensic Psychologist began with rapport building and quickly shifted to a more authoritarian/contrarian relational tone
• Melissa, wha are poop puppets? 
• Truth seeking is not rapport building or important
• Forensic Psychologist becomes dysregulated, fails to co-regulate with client
• The emotional experience of women when male clients become "apish"
• Social media groups and their confirmation biases
• Mom taking responsibility for regulating her husband and implicitly teaching her daughter of a woman's role in the home 

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• The Gloria videos (therapy session videos from the 1960s)
• Working with the adult self
• Psychogenic seizures
• We are NOT neurologists 
• Social contagions 
• Conversion disorder 
• Wim Hoff breathing
• Clients finding stability and discontinuing therapy prior to deep change 
• Co-regulation 

Podcast mentions: "Hysteria" and "Harvey Speaks."

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• Just because you can ask a pointed question doesn’t mean you should
• The analogy of an attic with boxes representing emotional memories to categorize minimized, avoided, or displaced memories
• The need to "sell" therapy to clients who are in the precontemplative stage of change
• Client dissociation in session  
• Suppressed rage can exacerbate back pain 
• Your marital conflicts are not ACTUALLY about the dishes
• Polyvagal Theory basics

Podcast References: Hooked (A person robbed 30 banks to support his opiate addiction)

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• Melissa and Evan share their past experiences with unspoken agreements in relationships 
• Passing off anxieties to partner to resolve insecurities 
• Finances are a common reason for divorce
• Unspoken agreements utilized in an attempt to resolve attachment trauma
• Fawning to prevent from abandonment, maladaptive self-preservation 
• Mind reading 
• We need to deal in realities, not “shoulds”

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• "Christian Counseling" directly opposes the ACA Code of Ethics
• Counselors' political biases creating division with clients
• The new-age drama of "right and wrong think"
• Therapists should not be truth-seekers
• The importance of sitting with clients that have different ideologies
• Melissa shares about her love of Ricky Martin
• Why is the counseling profession becoming a banner flag for social justice and advocacy?
• Approaching a client relationship similarly to visiting a foreign country
• We are entering the client's world, not inviting them to ours

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• Faulty torture tactics in the Iraq war
• Carl Jung's Devouring Mother Archtype
• Barriers when applying boundaries to parents
• Parents of children with addiction feel a sense of closeness in crisis 
• Internal conflicts that occur when experiencing incongruence

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Please reach out via email or social media if you'd like to participate in our FREE wellness audit where we take a brief snapshot of your presenting problems and offer insight into establishing possible new strategies of engaging with self and others.

• Wellness Audit
• Transference begins even in the initial consultation with a client
• Operating from “control pattern"
• Ineffectiveness of solely practicing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Rogerian Therapy
• The importance of conflict in therapy
• Therapy should go far beyond the clients’ presenting problems 
• They “why” isn’t as important as the “what”

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Have any questions or insights about this episode? Reach out to us at [email protected]