The AJP Podcast

AJP Podcast presenter Carlene McMaugh talks with pharmacist and Capital Chemist CEO Andrew Topp about how he – and the pharmacists working and owning across the Capital group – feel about the Eighth Community Pharmacy Agreement and more.

As Topp mentions, the 8CPA encompasses only a third of the certainty the wider profession needs.

“There’s still a little bit to do with the PSA’s component that we’re yet to see, and the wholesalers’ component,” he says. “We’re still learning.”

“By and large I’m positive,” Topp tells McMaugh, saying the 8CPA “acknowledges that there was wrong done to pharmacies – that it was going to pull money out of dispensing” and notes the series of offsets and/or replacements in the income formula.

Topp looks at 8CPA potential winners and losers, what he guessed correctly about it – and his  predictions for monies not yet allocated and the CSO agreement.

“My crystal ball’s been quite defunct over the last couple of years!” Topp admits.

The pair also discuss why pharmacy isn’t we out of the woods yet when it comes to recovery from 60-day dispensing – as well as how scope of practice will change how pharmacists work, and how owners manage resources.

Highlights:

0.44 – What are your views on 8CPA and how it looks?

2.20 – Winners and losers under the 8CPA

3.59 – Did the 8CPA meet industry expectations?

6.27 – Thoughts on the new Strategic Agreement with the PSA

7.44 – Feedback from other pharmacists about the Agreements

10.30 – Moving towards a more ideal pharmacy world

12.34 – Investing in resources to provide scope of practice

13.50 – Are the Agreements and Budget aligned?

15.25 – Are adjustments for 60-day dispensing made by pharmacies likely to stay?

17.02 – Thoughts on the CSO Agreement

18.54 – Did the shortages predicted with 60-day dispensing eventuate?

20.32 – The remote pharmacy maintenance and transition allowances

22.35 – Changes to opioid replacement therapy funding and NIPVIP

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

In this special episode of the AJP podcast, Dr Fei Sim, national president of the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia (PSA) speaks to Carlene McMaugh about a radical change for pharmacy – the first strategic agreement between the federal government and PSA to oversee pharmacy professional practice programs and structures.

Signed concurrently to, and in association with, the Eighth Community Pharmacy Agreement (8CPA), this new strategic agreement will see PSA oversee the operation of programs such as Home Medicine Reviews (HMR), Residential Medication Management Reviews (RMMR), Quality Use of Medicines (QUM) and workforce programs that were covered by previous CPA iterations.

PSA will also assume a role in other non-CPA programs such as the National Immunisation Program Vaccinations in Pharmacy (NIPVIP) and the pending Aged Care On-site Pharmacist (ACOP) program.

Among the topics covered are:

(2 mins 45): The reassurance offered by the new 8CPA, what this includes, and what it means for community pharmacy

(8:40): The new PSA/government strategic agreement – what this means for pharmacy professional practice   

(12:20): The components of the strategic agreement and how it will underpin professional standards and guidelines

(17:00): 7CPA programs and other programs to be included under the strategic agreement framework

(19:40): Providing reassurance to credentialied pharmacists

(24:30): The chance for professional equity, reducing intra-profession competition and securing additional funding for expanded practice

(26:40): Looking at the next steps, working through the plan. Also an upcoming PSA member exclusive webinar  

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

Carlene McMaugh

“I love the hustle and bustle of it,” DeMaria says, telling host Carlene McMaugh about his work in pharmacy ownership, in bookkeeping – and after a major life event, in maintaining work-life balance.

He says that only a pharmacist can truly understand what it takes to run a pharmacy, given the number of directions they’re pulled in at any time – but points out that there is very little business acumen taught during pharmacy studies.

After years away from pharmacy ownership – following a heart attack which forced him to reevaluate some priorities – DeMaria is now on the hunt for a new store, saying he feels “very positive, I’m liking what I’m seeing” in the pharmacy landscape.

He also highlights the importance of returning the dispensary as the central focus of the pharmacy – and hopes the 8cpa will return confidence not just to buyers and sellers, but also lenders following the introduction of 60 day dispensing.

1.07 – What does pharmacy ownership look like for you at this stage?

2.23 – Thoughts on 8CPA and the pharmacy market

3.41 – What did bookkeeping expertise teach him, and tips for pharmacists listening

6.03 – How has 60-day dispensing affected the numbers of pharmacy

8.06 – How a significant health event has changed his perspectives

10.46 – The move into accounting

12.24 – A new role

13.39 – On being a pharmacy entrepreneur

16.05 – How could work-life balance ideally be kept?

19.25 – How to embrace yourself as a brand

21.38 – Differentiating yourself from the competition

24.23 – How to combat discounters

25.29 – Advice on adapting to a constantly evolving landscape – and doing it well

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

In this episode of the AJP podcast, Dr Judith Singleton, from the School of Clinical Sciences, QUT, talks to host, Carlene McMaugh, about improving sustainability in the health care system and reducing the carbon footprint of health care.

Among the topics covered are:

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

In the latest edition of the AJP podcast, our host, Carlene McMaugh, speaks to Neville about the risks pharmacists face when dealing with medicinal cannabis.

The topics covered include:

You can access the full transcript of this podcast here. While we endeavour to ensure all important words and phrases are correct, please note there may be some minor inaccuracies in the transcription.

ACCESS PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

In the latest edition of the AJP podcast, our host, Carlene McMaugh, speaks to Abraham, about the opportunities that exist for pharmacists to educate and support Indigenous patients to self-manage conditions, including diabetes.

The topics covered include:

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

Blake Hedley, who works at Hedley Partners with his father Paul – and between the two, they have around 60 years’ worth of advisory experience to pharmacists – talks about the challenges facing pharmacists, particularly young pharmacists, and tips on pharmacy ownership.

Challenges include a lack of supply thanks to caps on licences – “it’s like there’s only 6,500 houses in the whole of Australia!” – and how banks will only lend on valuation, when there may be other factors attracting pharmacists to own a particular store.

“It makes it very hard for younger people,” Hedley says. “It’s definitely a lot easier for the older pharmacists.”

Early career pharmacists are also affected by “downward pressure on their wages” with a fairly large HECS debt, particularly given its indexing; and “limitations in and around ownership opportunities” for those who want to go down that path.

We find out what makes a successful pharmacy owner – and how despite a nervousness about 60-day dispensing, the sector is likely to bounce back.

“Pharmacists used to put millions of dollars putting photo dispensing in their shops,” Hedley says. “Digital cameras came in and all that went away.”

Pharmacy services including vaccination and supply of vapes could help fill income gaps created by 60-day dispensing, Hedley says – just as other offers filled the gaps left by analogue photography.

“There’s always something around the corner for pharmacy.”

1.33 – Challenges for the reality of working in the industry for those who have newly qualified

3.59 – What’s been motivating pharmacists to buy pharmacies lately?

8.07 – Has bank lending criteria changed, with 60-day dispensing and other elements of change?

14.51 – As pharmacists can exclusively own pharmacies, what does that mean for tax and borrowing power?

16.27 – All about buying groups

18.33 – How many pharmacy transactions can happen in a year (and how did Covid change this)?

23.30 – The impacts of 60-day dispensing, and positive changes in its wake

27.04 – Which pharmacy owners fail, and which succeed?

31.54 – All about trading pharmacies

37.33 – Where to start when looking to buy a pharmacy

You can access the full transcript of this podcast here. While we endeavour to ensure all important words and phrases are correct, please note there may be some minor inaccuracies in the transcription.

ACCESS PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

Echuca pharmacist in charge Shonae Zeman, who’s doing locum work after a year outside pharmacy, talks with the AJP Podcast’s host Carlene McMaugh about the key role of rural and regional pharmacies, and the risk of closure.

Zeman explains how rural pharmacy is adapting to manage the challenge of 60-day dispensing, with discussions of “Things like fee for service…price increases across the shop lines, reducing hours of opening of the pharmacy, reducing staff and also trying to monitor and minimise stock levels,” she says. “I think everyone’s a bit scared to pull the trigger and start increasing their prices.”

It’ll likely ramp up over the next “few waves” of medicines added to the list for 60-day dispensing, she says – and as negotiations for the 8CPA continue.

She’s concerned that pharmacists “don’t really know the narrative” and are left in “limbo” as they don’t know what’s happening – and it could be anything.

“If we do rely on all this government funding, and we get to the point where that is only really what’s keeping us afloat then if it’s pulled at any time, then how are businesses going to cope with that?

“Especially in rural pharmacy – the pharmacist is the main hub of the community, it’s people’s social outing for the day.

“The main concern for me is that pharmacies are going to struggle to stay open and be able to offer those services that we’ve been able to do so far.”

She said the biggest problem for rural communities is retaining staff – so she’s hopeful for incentives such as funding in the 8CPA to attract interns and other pharmacists.

There’s also the issue that “stock shortages are massive” and the time sink this represents – and the doctor shortage – “overwhelming” in Zeman’s words – is forcing pressure back onto pharmacists.

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

In the latest edition of the AJP podcast, our host, Carlene McMaugh, speaks to Page about the expansion of pharmacists’ scope of practice in Victoria and around the country.

The topics covered include:

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

CAPS representatives will attend the Dunkley (Victoria) by-election this weekend (2 March) to lobby against a Labor vote in protest against 60-day dispensing – and Victorian pharmacists are “very keen to assist,” says CAPS spokesperson Peppe Raso.

Raso explains why the group’s focus is now away from rallies – despite the “really good response” from the events in Sydney and Canberra in 2023 – and towards an “education opportunity for those who are undecided in that electorate”.

Raso and fellow CAPS spokesperson Christine Kelly tell AJP Podcast host Carlene McMaugh that this voter influencing campaign is here to stay.

“The Labor government is adamant on making us a third world country at the moment, and that’s not what we’re wanting,” said Kelly.

“This Dunkley by-election is really the first time any health care profession has come together united to show what we can do.

“And this is how we are going to apply the pressure – because this government doesn’t want to listen to us, they don’t want to consult with us, they don’t care if we’re kicking or screaming, but they will care if they lose their set.

“And unfortunately the only way that we’re going to be able to do this is to actually show up with the truth…and make their voters realise that voting for Labor means that health care in Australian will be ruined, broken, torn apart.

“Not only are we going to be at Dunkley, we’re going to be at the Cook (NSW) by-election to show and tell people not to vote for Labor either, and we’re going to be at every by-election, or election – it doesn’t matter whether it’s state or federal.

“We’re going to be there until we get an 8CPA that ensures that community pharmacy stays viable and ensures that we can stay open.”

Go here for the full list of active AJP podcasts. These can also be accessed via Apple Podcasts and Spotify