The Better Boards Podcast Series

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Every country has its fair share of corporate failures. Afterwards, It is easy to point towards governance. Reflection and learning are essential. In this podcast, you hear from someone who has a critical governance role In Germany. You gain insights into the issues discussed and the perspectives of someone who hears daily from all players in the market - regulators, state officials, top managers, board members, the media and the general public. 

Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses current trends in German Corporate Governance with Dr. Cordula Heldt, Head of Corporate Governance and Company Law at the German Share Institute (Deutsches Aktieninstitut).  She is also Head of the Secretariat to the Commission on the German Corporate Governance Code (Regierungskommission Deutscher Corporate Governance Kodex).  

“Every declaration that you have to do is actually about nudging boards to do the work”
Cordula opens with Germany’s recent significant corporate failures, notably the Wirecard scandal, which led to new regulations concerning corporate governance.  Following the Wirecard case, German lawmakers introduced stricter requirements for risk management, internal control systems, and auditor regulations.  

“Every declaration that you have to do is actually about nudging boards to do the work”
However, despite the complaints about the administrative burden, Cordula believes the value of these declarations lies in their ability to nudge boards into taking their responsibilities seriously.  By requiring formal declarations, boards are compelled to examine their risk management and internal control systems closely – and this scrutiny is not only limited to financial reporting but extends to the entire governance framework.  The intent is to ensure that supervisory board members ask the right questions and engage more deeply with these systems.  

“As a board chair, you're looking for people that you can propose to the board and the general meeting that can fill the whole seat”
One effective approach some companies adopt, which Cordula notes, is reporting on the different levels of expertise within the board.  This means acknowledging that not every board member starts with the same level of knowledge, especially in specialised areas.  She believes this trend toward acknowledging and communicating different expertise levels supports more effective board development and governance.

“Of course, they think it's burdensome, but everybody knows the alternative is regulation”
Cordula advises bringing directors and policymakers closer together to create better boards.  She also understands that while directors generally support the code, they often find it burdensome, although they recognise that the more stringent regulation alternative could be worse.  She explains that one approach that has been effective (at least in Germany) is the practice of direct engagement, as Clara Christina Streit, the new chair of the German Code Commission, has implemented.  She started her tenure with a "listening tour." 

The three top takeaways from our conversation for effective boards are:
1.      Familiarise yourself with the ongoing governance debates, focusing on principle-based and effective governance.  This will help you better navigate and meet reporting expectations.
2.     Be aware of the potential expectation gaps in corporate reporting.  Understanding these gaps can help you align reporting practices with expectations of stakeholders and regulators.
3.     Consider the board a cohesive team that must work together to ask the right questions and prevent governance failures.  

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Recently, there has been a surge on social media stating that diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) are bad for business.  Some of the world’s largest firms have also significantly reduced their investment in diversity and inclusion.  But what does this mean for boards that do believe DEI are good for business? Should they change how they approach this agenda, and if so, how? 

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses whether DEI is bad for business with Prof Grace Lordan from the London School of Economics, Founding Director of The Inclusion Initiative, economist, and labour market skills expert.   

“What boards need to think about is how inclusive are their teams at the micro level, so that when they aggregate, we get those productivity gains”
Grace opens by considering an example – an imaginary scenario where DEI might negatively impact business.  Imagine starting a new job and meeting your team for the first time, being different in some way – perhaps gender, ethnicity, or language.  You have valuable knowledge and are excited to contribute, but you're repeatedly interrupted or ignored when you speak up. In this situation, you could respond in one of four ways: silence, dissent, quitting and conformity. These responses show how poor inclusion can make DEI detrimental to business.  

“The biggest thing we can do is say this board doesn't engage in consensus-based decision making”
Grace notes that boards must consider what's happening in the room and any member’s desire to “fit in.”  She attributes many big behavioural risk scandals to groupthink at the team level and board members who are aware of a potential issue but fail to speak up because they don't want to upset the apple cart. 

“These good habits, unfortunately, haven't necessarily infiltrated boards yet”
Behavioural changes are vital to advancing diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in organisations, not only at the board level.  Grace outlines how to promote inclusive behaviours, starting with establishing clear rules for meeting hygiene.  These guidelines will ensure everyone has an opportunity to speak. 

“If you invest in an inclusive culture, you should see gains in the fundamentals. You definitely won't see losses”
Grace’s research explores the broader implications of inclusion on fundamental business metrics such as growth, innovation, patent filings, stock returns, return on equity, and return on assets.  She established a clear, positive relationship between inclusion and long-term business outcomes.  Diversity alone showed gains only after reaching critical mass. However, when inclusion is paired with diversity, the need for a high critical mass diminishes.

“Millions and millions of pounds are wasted each year on diversity equity and inclusion initiatives”
Grace notes that to realise productivity gains, board members must prioritise fostering a culture of inclusion, where diversity is genuinely valued and diverse talents are not pressured into conformity.  

The three top takeaways for effective boards from our conversation are:

1. Integrate inclusion with diversity: Ensure that diversity and inclusion strategies are embedded within the business, not confined to HR or external consultants.
2. Audit and enhance boardroom voice: Boards must pay attention to who has a voice in discussions, ensuring that there is sufficient cognitive diversity. 
3. Treat DEI as a long-term investment, particularly valuable for companies focused on growth and innovation. Prioritise creating a culture where team members feel comfortable challenging each other, driving real business gains.

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Corporate Governance Codes worldwide state that an internal board evaluation shall be conducted in years one and two after a fully facilitated external evaluation.  It is one of those tasks on a Company Secretariat's calendar that has to be done.  But how?

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses mastering internal board evaluation with Chloe Barry. Chloe is Group Company Secretary at Kingfisher, an FTSE100 organisation.

“I'm fortunate to have moved from one engaged chair to another”
Chloe starts by explaining her board evaluation process, with the next one planned for the autumn, which will be conducted internally.  She outlined how this is notable for two reasons: it is the first led by the new board chair.  Chloe is excited to work with them on what she is certain is a robust process.  Secondly, they will use most of last year's question set, allowing them to measure progress.  

“We want the directors to leave the process feeling assured that they have identified the appropriate actions”
Chloe admits that board evaluations can be seen as unnecessary and time-consuming. However, her experience with engaged boards and directors shows that they often appreciate the outcome. Despite the time it takes, directors recognise that meaningful participation enhances the quality of subsequent reporting and discussions, and by engaging honestly and sharing views on potential obstacles, board effectiveness can significantly improve. In her opinion, a good evaluation process is measured by the practical actions it identifies for improvement.  

“Perhaps counterintuitively, my starting point is always to look back and reflect on the previous few years' reviews”
To prepare for an internal evaluation, Chloe explains that she starts by reflecting on past reviews, considering the format, tone, actions set in the previous years, and feedback from directors.  This helps her decide on the type of review to propose, whether internal or external and if it aligns with their three-year cycle.  If changing the mechanism or provider, she will always create a shortlist, benchmark with peers, and possibly conduct a full tender.  She explains that while board evaluations, particularly internal ones, can take almost any form – verbal, paper or online - the most important thing is to ensure that you are evolving and improving in all respects.

“You need to be honest with your chair”
Chloe emphasises that honesty with your chair about past successes and areas for improvement is essential when making proposals. She relates that she introduced Better Boards for their interim evaluation last year to focus on peer reviews. Considerations included various factors such as the new platform, question set, reporting format, timetable, and communication plan. The most positive feedback from last year's review was about the display of the results and the insightful peer review section.  

The three top takeaways from our conversation are:
1.      Learn from past evaluations by reviewing agreed actions, feedback, and the process.  Show directors you are improving the experience to maintain their engagement. 
2.     Inform and engage individual directors early about the process and any new provider, and ensure they complete the evaluation.
3.     Test the survey, whether homegrown or external and ask others to do the same.  Check for clarity, insightfulness, and practical usability.  A thoughtful process leads to more engaged directors and valuable insights.

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Many Directors have positive intentions, want to leverage their experiences, support executives, and discuss the big picture in the boardroom. But many quickly become disillusioned, stuck in detail, ticking off boxes and agenda items rather than supporting executives and helping the organisation make a real mark.  

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards www.better-boards.com, talks with Sir John Tusa. He is known as the main past presenter of BBC2's Newsnight programme. He was Managing Director of some of the most iconic media and cultural centres in the United Kingdom, such as the BBC World Service and the City of London's Barbican Arts Centre and chaired the boards of the European Union Youth Orchestra, University of the Arts London and Wigmore Hall.

“We are here to help to make the organisation a better, more creative place"
Sir John began by observing that a board that is too formal and strictly adheres to rules can stifle creativity.  While it is important to follow regulations, boards that only focus on minutes and compliance miss the mark.  

“The practice of constant accountability prevents people from having ideas”
Sir John explains that it presents a missed opportunity if a board does not make time for innovation. To avoid this, boards should ask if they focus more on responsibility or accountability.  He believes accountability often means constantly proving compliance to external parties, while responsibility involves making decisions and owning the outcomes, good or bad.  Boards should prioritise responsibility, embrace new ideas, and be willing to accept the consequences of their decisions. 

“Give yourself permission on a board not to be tied down by rule”
Sir John wishes boardrooms would handle routine business swiftly and then dedicate the rest/bulk of the time to discussing big ideas.  These discussions do not always need conclusions but require an open-minded approach, and the chair and chief executive must foster this creative environment.  Board members are not there just for their specific skills; they are there as whole individuals.  

“It's vital that boards spend time together”
Spending time together outside formal meetings, as Sir John experienced on an American board, can significantly improve board dynamics because boards need to be enjoyable spaces.  So, as chair, focus on creating an open, fun, and collaborative environment while ensuring that the board members feel valued and heard.  This will foster an atmosphere where innovative ideas can thrive.  

“You won't do it just by being stuck in the mud and saying, ‘We're observing the rules’”
Sir John concludes by pointing out that as an individual non-executive director or trustee, you can influence and contribute to creating a vibrant board atmosphere, even if the chair is not taking the lead.  He suggests that boards thrive when members feel valued, heard, and motivated to contribute their best.  

The three top takeaways for effective boards from our conversation are:
1.      Remember that a board is there to help create and sustain a vision. The vision comes from the chief executive, but the board can contribute to that and needs to be forward-looking.
2.     Consider whether everybody contributes equally and is allowed to contribute.
3.     Be very careful how you deal with objectives. People think something has been done just because they've achieved the objective, but this might not mean value is added. 

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As board members gain awareness of the possibilities and power of AI and analytics, an almost unlimited array of potential projects, questions, or scenarios where analytics could improve outcomes arises.  The challenge is how to prioritise the various opportunities. 

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses using AI and advanced analytics to deliver value in the boardroom with Professor Bernardo Almada-Lobo, co-author of The Analytics Sandwich: Bringing People and Artificial Intelligence Together to Unlock Business Value. 

“If you really want advanced analytics and AI to deliver game-changing value, the secret sauce is to approach it with short, laser-focused projects”
Bernardo explains that organisations often take two ineffective approaches to AI and analytics, leading to disappointing outcomes.  They either embark on a massive analytics project, or different teams initiate numerous mini-projects driven by personal curiosity or bias.  He underscores the need for a strategic, business-led approach, focusing on short, laser-focused, collectively agreed-upon projects that are directly tied to strategy. 

“This technology has the potential to affect every industry and every function of a company”
Bernardo believes that boards must understand the opportunities and disruptions generative AI, and advanced analytics present. This awareness helps avoid two common pitfalls.  The first is that boards may demand AI projects using a push analytics approach without organisational alignment, focusing on available data rather than the problems.   Second, management teams may move faster on opportunities than their boards are prepared for.  

“By integrating AI and advanced analytics, boards can enhance their effectiveness, make more informed decisions, and drive organisational success”
Bernardo explains that integrating AI and advanced analytics can significantly enhance the effectiveness and inform decision-making of any board when considering its responsibilities. 

“Any director who fails to integrate AI into their work and decision-making process in the near future will not be allowed to serve on the board”
Bernardo warns that boards need to address know-how gaps to effectively apply AI. Board members should possess basic AI literacy, which will become a standard requirement. 

“Analytics is not a substitute for people. It's a support, a way that we have to harness their knowledge and combine that knowledge with state-of-the-art AI and machine capability to augment, instead of replacing”
Bernardo gives a list of tips for the C-Suite on AI Integration. 1. Walk the Talk. 
2. Align AI and Advanced Analytics with Business Objectives and Culture. 3. Combine People and Analytics.  

The three top takeaways for effective boards from our conversation are:
1.      Any director who fails to integrate AI into their work and decision-making process in the near future will not be allowed to serve on the board. Minimum literacy on AI will be mandatory.
2.     AI will not entirely replace human decision-makers in complex decisions. Instead, it will complement human experience and judgement.
3.     AI and advanced analytics only deliver value when problem-centric. If you want to do pull analytics, you need high C-suite maturity and sophistication. 

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Climate change is not just a distant threat, but an urgent and immediate reality that is forcing fundamental change for organisations, often transforming their business models.  The role of governance in enabling and guiding the urgent transition to the net zero economy has never been more crucial.  

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards) discusses how Chairs can structure their committees, why climate change is central to business resilience and growth, and the role of the board with Vicky Moffatt. Vicky is CEO of Chapter Zero, the Director’s Climate Forum, a global membership organisation for Non-Executive Directors and Chairs. 

"Every director needs to understand that over the longer term, there are only two scenarios for the transition and our global economies”
Vicky sees boards at every stage of the climate journey. Her work is about educating members to be effective climate leaders from the boardroom. To her, climate is not just a governance issue but a call to action that should be addressed at every level of the organisational structure. Segregating climate issues into an ESG committee is an ineffective approach. Instead, it is the directors' responsibility to take the lead in designing and executing the clean energy transition, thereby making a significant impact on the future of our planet. 

“I think the longer-term nature of the net zero transition makes it fall in perfect alignment with the very role of the board itself”
To Vicky, the corporate governance code promotes the long-term, sustainable success of the company, generates value for shareholders, and contributes to wider society. Leaning on that definition makes board work and net zero perfect bedfellows. So, it's not about the individual director at all; it's about shifting the very culture of the boardroom itself.

“The further you go, the more you realise climate and sustainability are issues for every board committee and indeed for the whole board”
ESG committees can be hugely important in driving change around business models and strategies, but the issues of climate and sustainability impact so much that the whole board needs to be involved. 

“There is a sense that this work is too difficult”
Vicky points out that when it comes to climate and climate transition, fundamental, systemic change is needed. It can feel overwhelming and intimidating, and there’s a lot of unfamiliar territory. So, everyone needs to be comfortable with being in a mode and mindset of learning rather than giving in to the overwhelming aspects. 

“Great work is happening out there”
Vicky shares some concrete examples of great work in the podcast episode. 

“The chair is crucial. But in some of the more progressive boards that I've seen, the chair is sort of like the goat herder, leading from behind”
Vicky feels that when it comes to climate, it really is conventional change work, even though the Net Zero agenda is the most extraordinary change programme ever written. With all excellent change work, it is about having a powerful guiding coalition with a clear vision. Chairs lead this, sponsor this, and enable this, but the best chairs create the space for their teams to carry the work forward.
The three top takeaways for effective boards are:
1. There are only two scenarios – invest in the clean economy or experience runaway climate change. 
2. A good transition plan is linked to good governance and must be led by the board.
3. Climate change is an issue for the FULL board.

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Managing an ever-growing agenda, Company Secretaries today face a plethora of issues that can pull their focus in countless directions. It's truly challenging to work effectively with the board and keep on top of the ever-changing economic, technological, and regulatory landscape. So, how can Company Secretaries maintain clarity and focus amidst their expanding responsibilities?

In this podcast, Dr. Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses mastering the company secretariat with Jason Wright, Society Secretary at Nationwide. 

“If you do the small things perfectly, you'll be trusted to do the big things”
Jason, a self-proclaimed perfectionist, believes in the power of attention to detail. He likes to have plenty of reassurance that anything he or his team is responsible for will be done and delivered as expected. To prevent surprises, especially around board meeting days, annual events, and the annual reporting, he carefully monitors moving parts and what’s going on with various projects, checking and re-checking. This meticulous approach helps him feel on top of things, and crosschecking to ensure he’s prepared helps build trust in his position. Jason believes getting the small stuff right wins trust for involvement in bigger tasks. 

“You have to give the impression of being the calm, serene swan on the river paddling upstream. But, below the surface, your legs are going like crazy, just to stay still sometimes"
The sheer volume of materials and regulations that board secretaries manage is incredible and growing more extensive and complex. Jason likes to look ahead to the next year as he plans to help manage agendas for each board session and event. 

“It's a lot, a lot of preparation”
Jason is very keen for his team to sit down with the agenda for each board cycle. They look for items appearing in multiple committees or multiple meeting plans to remove duplication and place things in the most effective spot for resolution. He also looks at the structure of the agenda. His current Chair wants each board meeting to have a strategic, operational, and socially minded agenda item, which gives Jason a structure and framework to work around as he builds agendas.

“You need to understand the Directors, to help the Chairman help them bring the best of themselves to the meetings”
To help his board work effectively, he connects with each Director, checking on their needs, seeking feedback, and listening before and after each board cycle. This creates a positive relationship and gives him a better sense of what each Director likes, dislikes, prefers and needs for the meetings.

In meetings, Jason sits next to his Chair, helping flex the agenda as it flows to allow for extended discussions, faster resolutions, or other day-of changes. He keeps team members just outside the meeting to help manage board guests. 

“What you have to do, first of all, is prove to them that you've got something to add”
Jason has worked to achieve his relationships and influence by showing that he could make a positive difference in the board's effectiveness and accomplishments. He actively looks for places where he can anticipate a need or remove a burdensome task for a Director or his Chair. 

The three top takeaways for effective boards are:
1.      It's essential that you enjoy the role. It's a privilege to be at the table where the big calls get made, so you need to enjoy it.
2.     You need to know your place. You're there to serve and support the board. Focus on that with laser vision.
3.     Nail the smaller details, and you'll be invited to the big stuff.

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Managing an ever-growing agenda, boards today face a plethora of issues that can pull their focus in countless directions. How can boards maintain clarity and focus amidst their expanding scope of responsibilities, especially when it comes to the critical area of sustainability?

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner, discusses this issue with Andrew Hobbs from EY’s Center for Board Matters. Andrew is also EMEIA Public Policy leader and Chair of the Corporate Governance Working Group of the European Contact Group, Vice-Chair of the Corporate Governance Policy Group of Accountancy Europe, and the author of the annual EY EMEIA Board Priorities report.

“I can confidently say GenAI is redefining business efficiencies and innovation”
Andrew feels boards need to infuse their organisations with the right tech skills and foster a culture that's eager to leverage AI's full potential. Turning AI chatter into meaningful outcomes is challenging. Ensuring GenAI tools are applied within the right contexts and properly integrated with existing systems is key to adding actual value.

“Boards have been spending more time on workforce-related topics for the last couple of years than they have in a long time, and they don't expect that to change anytime soon"
Andrew hears fresh urgency about human capital, skill gaps, and the employee value proposition in his conversations with boards. The present situation with AI, DEI, and the global economic climate means boards are under renewed pressure to provide governance and guidance. Andrew stresses that boards must be proactive in facing the skills shortage while still emphasising DEI. 

“The ability to predict the future is not as good as it used to be, or at least that's the perception"
While boards are used to managing risks for their organisations, Andrew feels there is more to manage – and more in flux – than in the recent past. As a result, he recommends boards lean more heavily on scenario planning and increase their monitoring of disparate world events. In this way, boards can help chart a strategic and flexible course.

“Make sure you don't have all your eggs in one basket"
To Andrew, it’s about boards making sure their companies have the agility and resilience to withstand economic or geopolitical shocks. He feels boards should elevate supply chain strategy to reinforce agility and resilience by embracing technology—such as AI and automation—that refines supply chain performance and drives cost efficiency. 

“The problem some companies have is a lack of confidence in the likely return on investment of allocating capital towards sustainable sources"
Transitioning to a low-carbon economy is non-negotiable, with significant net-zero commitments from nations and corporations. Despite the inclination to prioritise short-term earnings, boards must confidently champion sustainability as a value-creating strategy, not a cost centre. 

The three top takeaways for effective boards are:
1.      Boards need to recognise the power of generative AI in driving innovation and improving efficiencies within their organisations and establish robust governance around its use.
2.     Human capital, especially concerning DEI, is a critical strategic priority as technological advancements reshape the workforce.
3.     Board members must act as catalysts for embedding long-term sustainability into their company's DNA. 

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Diversity and inclusion are not evenly distributed throughout an organisation, and the view at the board level may not correspond with reality further down. This creates missed opportunities and prevents companies from unlocking the true potential of their talent and their organisations. Often, firms can increase productivity by doing more to be truly inclusive.

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Director of Better Boards, discusses increasing productivity through inclusion with Belton Flournoy, Managing Director of the Technology Consulting practice at Protiviti.

"When I was young, I looked up and didn't see many people like me”
Belton is passionate about inclusion for two reasons. First, he feels that when you don’t see anyone like yourself, you fear society won’t allow you in certain circles. Second, he continues to see people limiting which parts of their identity they show or hide, and this holds people back from expressing their true potential.

“We don't just need to focus on diversity initiatives and how they make people feel. We need to link them to the increased productivity”
Belton sees an incredible opportunity to translate the existing dialogues about diversity into more meaningful conversations linked to productivity outcomes and business results.

“If you haven't driven the true inclusion values through that middle layer, it won't permeate your organisation, and you might think your organisation is much more inclusion-oriented than it really is…”
Many boards have done serious work on inclusion, building it into the mission, governance, and operations. Yet when you drop into the middle management layer, there’s a sharp drop-off in belief, behaviour, and execution.

“The goal is to create research that helps organisations drive inclusion through evidence-based research”
Belton sees many organisations dealing with inclusion and diversity by conducting surveys and reporting their interpretation of the survey results. This approach lacks rigour. This is part of why he devotes so much time to research partnerships, to help create strictly measured and robust studies that can drive change with hard evidence about what’s happening and what works.

“What you need to do is realise your voice is valid from day one”
Belton rejects a fixed mindset and focuses on cultivating a growth mindset. Secondly, he cultivates an internal locus of control. Rather than assigning control of his life to others or believing that an externally controlled system is responsible for his life outcomes, he frames situations in terms of what he can control and take action on.

The three top takeaways from our conversation for effective boards are:
1.      Create a personal board. As a senior leader, it is hard to get good feedback. So, identify three to six people to talk to about your career in a professional context between one and four times a year. This will transform how you get feedback on challenging issues and help you have a priceless sounding board.
2.     Realise the voice in your head is just a voice. You don’t have to listen to it. You can ignore or challenge it, which is especially useful for overcoming negative internal narratives.
3.     Contribute to the productivity research of the future. Complete the ongoing survey on generational productivity from the London School of Economics and Protiviti. You can complete it here:  https://www.protiviti.com/us-en/survey/lse-generations-survey   

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Boards are complex structures, and it can be overwhelming for a first-time CEO to navigate them successfully. In this episode, we dive into the experiences of a first-time CEO, discussing the challenges she encountered and the strategies she used to handle the intricacies of board dynamics. 

In this episode, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, speaks with Daphne Mavroudi-Chocholi about her experience working on a board for the first time.  Daphne, the Managing Director of RNIB Enterprises, brings a wealth of experience to the table but is, for the first time, a CEO. 

“What has surprised me the most, coming from the start-up world, is the governance”
Daphne’s previous experience was in the start-up world. There is an established background in that world, and investors invest in the person and the idea. Now, she is the Managing Director operating within a highly regulated environment. She finds it constantly necessary to consider the right balance between governance, agility, nimbleness, and the ability to make decisions.

“There are two places I really see value coming through. One is honesty, and the other is the idea of working with a board rather than sitting on a board”
Daphne feels very lucky in her board relationships. She sees two areas where the board provides and creates particular value. First, life as a CEO can be a lonely existence. With your board, on the other hand, there’s the opportunity for honest, no-holds-barred conversations, and that space for transparency creates immense value. Secondly, by viewing the board as a partnership relationship, you gain the benefit of a critical friend.  

“The most challenging part of working with a board is striking that balance between managing the board, engaging with board members, ensuring alignment, and then actually doing the day-to-day job”
To Daphne, one can be pulled into board work and move away from the business. Or, one can go so deeply into the business that one forgets to update the board. 

“What is the shining city on the hill we’re all marching toward?”
Along with an ally in the Chair, Daphne finds storytelling extremely helpful.  Storytelling helps create narrative fluency in the common culture and goals that drive the business. It can bring everyone together on the same page, build clarity on why things are being done, and drive everyone forward in the same direction. 

“In God we trust; all others bring data”
A second thing immensely helpful to Daphne is an insistence on data. It builds credibility and helps move conversations from opinions and emotions to facts. 

“You might as well be honest and transparent at the beginning.”
The final element for Daphne is transparency. She mentions it often because it matters on multiple levels. It builds trust. It helps us understand each other and the business. Above all, transparency helps extract maximum value from the board because when the members understand the story, data, and balance, they can understand how to bring their full range of skills and abilities forward, exponentially magnifying their impact. 

The three top takeaways for effective boards from our conversation are:
1.      It is imperative to create narrative fluency with your board. Clearly describe the proverbial “Shining City on a Hill” as the whole organisation and the Board marching toward it.
2.     Build diversity around the Board table, especially diversity of thought and working style, to challenge the status quo in a good way.
3.     Truth will come out – it is best to be honest and transparent.