The Church Lobby

Small churches aren’t a problem to fix, they’re a unique part of the body of Christ that has gifts we need to embrace.

Karl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of embracing what’s right about small churches, not in spite of being small, but because they’re small, in a conversation based on the content of Allen's book, The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church’s Vocation.

Some of the subjects they cover include:

• A new take on the “all growth is good growth” assumption, based on the fact that we live in a culture that is so economically driven
• Why small churches should be more nimble, but often are not
• The differences between a hierarchical leadership model and the Solar System Model
• The importance of the “Parking Lot meeting”
• The differences between regular and episodic volunteers

Links:

• The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church’s Vocation
• Reclaiming Rural: Building Thriving Rural Congregations
• 211Counts.org
• University of the Ozarks

Four Practices to Help Your Small Church Stay Nimble, with Allen T. Stanton

Karl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of:

• Acknowledging the places where small-membership churches are already good at change and where they already practice being adaptive and flexible.
• Remembering that not everything needs to change all the time.
• The looseness of small-church relational networks, rather than strict hierarchies and complicated bureaucracies.
• Understanding and appropriately managing the roles of individuals in the organization.

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Working a side hustle is no longer the exception for pastors, it’s the norm. Embracing it might answer a lot of your (and your church’s) needs.

Karl Vaters talks with Jon Sanders about the rise in covocational pastoring and why it’s something more pastors, especially small-church pastors, should take seriously. Jon is the co-host of the EntrePastors Podcast and the co-founder of EntrePastors.com (with Les Hughes).

The culture around us is shifting. The idea that someone entering the workplace will get a single full-time job to pay the bills is a rarity. And the church is no exception. But, unlike the secular marketplace, we shouldn’t be playing catch-up with this. We can lead.

Jon and Karl talk about several important aspects of bivo/covo ministry, including:

• Why this is a growing need
• How to make the shift without neglecting the church
• The difference between bivocational and covocational
• How to prepare your congregation for a covocational pastorate

And more.

Jon also serves as the Director of Coaching for the 95Network, a ministry that specializes in serving small to midsize churches.

Podcast Links:

• Rural Church Rescue, with Jon Sanders (ep 024)
• EntrePastors
• How The Side Hustle Is Changing The Face Of Pastoring

Bonus Material

Finding a Covocational Job That Fits a Pastor’s Skills and Schedule, with Jon Sanders

What marketplace jobs work well for covocational pastors?

The skills you have honed as a pastor are highly desirable in the secular marketplace. But how can they be turned into a paying job that won’t interfere with your pastoral calling?

In the bonus conversation I talk to Jon Sanders of EntrePastors.com about how to make that transition, including several real-life examples of pastors who have made that transition well.

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Why would a young church planter choose to do ministry in the poorest neighborhood of a city in crisis?

Many churches are fleeing the inner cities. Grand old church buildings with deep histories sit empty. But Tim Walker and Restored Church are facing these realities head-on in Wilkes-Barre PA.

Karl Vaters talks with Tim about subjects like:

• Their church’s Hub for Movement strategy
• Their decision to do ministry in the poorest part of town
• Ministry in a deeply post-Christian context
• Honoring history, while moving into the future from a legacy church building
• Their plan to plant a microchurch on every block of Wilkes-Barre

Links from this episode:

• Future Church, by Will Mancini and Cory Hartman
• From Megachurch to Multiplication, by Chris Galanos
• Cory Hartman Podcast Interview (Ep 29)
• Frank Wooden Podcast Interview (Ep 81)
• GotQuestions.org
• Restored Church
• [email protected]

Bonus Content

How To Foster Pastoral Collaboration In Your Town, with Tim Walker

Karl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about how he and other pastors in his town have created a network of ministry collaboration that blesses all churches and reaches the community more effectively.

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Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about one of the most controversial, but unavoidable topics today—living with offense without being offended. This material comes from his just-released book, A Sharp Compassion: 7 Hard Words to Heal Our Insecurities and Free Us from Offense.

Karl and Chase talk about why offense is a necessary part of life, how to use it well, and deal with it properly.

Subjects include:

• How Jesus intentionally used offensive words in strategic situations to bring about desired results
• The importance of discipleship
• How the absence of close relationships makes us more offendable
• How church leaders can help those who struggle with being offended
• And more

Chase Replogle is also the author of The 5 Masculine Instincts: A Guide to Becoming a Better Man, and is the host of the Pastor Writer Podcast. He pastors the Bent Oak Church in Springfield, Missouri.

Links from this episode:

• Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer

The Danger Of The Cult Of Self-affirmation

Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about the dangers of using self-affirmation as a guide to life and truth. Recent surveys have shown that self-affirmation, and specifically “how I feel at the moment” have widely replaced universal truths in many people’s lives.

It’s also made its way into the church. While 91% of U.S. adults agree that “the best way to find yourself is by looking within yourself,” 76% of practicing Christians agreed with that statement.

As Chase wrote in A Sharp Compassion, “Religion has not disappeared from America, as so many feared; instead, it has, like everything from our entertainment to our diets, become personalized. It has shifted from the risk of offense to the affirmation of the self.”

In September and October over 1.2 million people will search online for “Trunk-or-Treat near me.” Here’s how to be one of the churches they find.

Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about practical steps to help churches of any size put on a high-quality, gospel-centered Trunk-or-Treat event. Darrell is a small-church pastor in Oklahoma City and he has created a free 23-page guide called Trunk-orTreat Planning for Churches: A Step-by-step Guide.

Karl and Darrell talk about:

• The benefits of having a church Trunk-or-Treat
• Picking a theme
• Who it’s designed to reach
• When to start planning
• Recruiting volunteers
• How to gather info from attenders
• How to follow up

Podcast Links:

• Free 23-page Planning Guide with Trunk-or-Treat Ideas for Churches
• The Gospel Trunk-or-Treat Planning System
• Previous Darrell Stetler Interview (Ep 38)

Also from Darrell Stetler:

• NewStart Discipleship Curriculum
• Free New Believer Bible Reading Plan (1 Page PDF)
• Free audiobook on Discipling Your Children
• Free NewStart Discipleship Journal: A 54-page Discipleship Bible Study for new Christians.
• Free one-hour Discipleship Training workshop

Social media:

• facebook.com/darrellstetler2
• facebook.com/newstartdiscipleship
• youtube.com/@newstartdiscipleship
• twitter.com/newstartdisc

Bonus Summary

Yes, Your Church Can Do Trunk-or-Treat without Compromising Your Christian Values, with Darrell Stetler

If you have problems with Halloween, I'm right there with you. Not a fan. In this short video, Darrell Stetler and Karl Vaters talk about:

• Why our churches do a trunk-or-treat
• The three attitudes Christians can have toward Halloween
• The misunderstood non-pagan origins of Halloween
• Why it’s okay for churches to offer a safe, Bible-based alternative

Bonus Content Links:

• Halloween: A Distinctively Christian Holiday
• Free 23 Page Planning Guide with Trunk or Treat Ideas for Churches
• The Gospel Trunk or Treat Planning System
• To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about the content from his new book, Flyover Church: How Jesus’ Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere, for which Karl wrote the foreword.

Topics include:

• How the rural church is different from the city and suburban church, not just in scale, but in type
• How metrics are very different in the rural church
• The lure of strategy
• The radically different pace of rural ministry
• And more

Brad is also the author of The Hunger Inside: How the Meal Jesus Gave Transforms Lives, and God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of the Rural Church.

Links:

• DoxologyProject.com
• Book: God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of the Rural Church
• Book: The Hunger Inside: How the Meal Jesus Gave Transforms Lives
• Book: Flyover Church: How Jesus' Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere

​Brad Roth Bonus Chat summary

One New Person: Toward An Authentic Metric For The Rural Church

Karl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about how and why metrics work very differently in rural churches than in urban and suburban churches. As Brad wrote, “Most of us don’t need numbers to know whether our church is thriving. Numbers often stand in for intuition and attempt to substitute with a dashboard what can only be learned through years spent with a people in a place.”

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Sometimes pastors are our own worst enemy, so we need to recognize that God chose us for this work.

There’s probably not a single pastor (at least not a long-term pastor) who can’t relate to the title of Craig T Owens’ latest book, When Sheep Bite: Help for Shepherd Leaders Who May Have Felt the Painful Bites.

In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Craig about what those bites mean, where they come from and what to do about them. Then they spend the bulk of the episode covering the chapters that make up the meat of his book:

• When the Sheep Flatter You
• When the Sheep Criticize You
• When the Sheep Gossip About You
• When the Sheep Slander You
• When the Sheep Question Your Authority
• When the Sheep Abandon You

Links:

• When Sheep Bite: Help for Shepherd Leaders Who May Have Felt the Painful Bites
• Shepherd Leadership: The Metrics that Really Matter
• craigtowens.com
• Church Metrics that Really Matter, with Craig T. Owens (Ep 043)

BONUS MATERIAL

Navigating Your Way Through Good Stress And Bad Stress, with Craig Owens

Karl Vaters interviews Craig T Owens about the fact that there are two kinds of stress that we all face:

1. Unbalanced, unhealthy stress, which we call distress
2. Balanced, healthy stress, which is known as eustress

In life, as in ministry, it’s essential that we know the difference, and that we’re aware of how to reduce the negative, while embracing and growing with the positive.

To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Frank Wooden about Microchurches. Frank has been a church planter for decades, but is now concentrating on the Microchurch model as a valid, healthy alternative in a changing cultural landscape.

Karl and Frank talk about:

• What Microchurch is
• Why it’s so appealing right now
• Some cautions to be aware of
• Three reasons the Microchurch model can work for a church of any size
• How the Microchurch model might be the answer for many churches in crisis

And more

Links:

• KC Underground
• Tampa Underground
• The Discovery Bible Study Method
• Clayton Christensen
• [email protected]

How to Help an Existing Church Adapt to the Microchurch Model

Karl Vaters talks with Frank Wooden about the value of the Microchurch model as an alternative for a church in crisis. They discuss how this model might help answer financial challenges, the importance of being proactive, what to do with a church’s institutional assets if they adapt this model, and how to address concerns from mature members.

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Karl Vaters talks with Laurie Acker about the changing face of small church ministry, especially as it relates to recruiting, training, and relying on the volunteers who are so essential in helping small churches survive and thrive in a changing world.

Laurie runs SmallChurchMinistry.com, an online ministry that provides resources and support for volunteers and ministry leaders in smaller churches. Ministries like this are so important because they help provide practical help for the volunteers who do small-church ministry without any prior training.

Links from this episode:

• Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smallchurchministry/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/smallchurchministry
• Creative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry 
• Small Church Network & Academy: https://smallchurchministry.com/membership/
• Email: [email protected]
• Book: One Thing Remains

Karl Vaters talks with Laurie Acker about Using a Planning Party to Jumpstart Youth/Kids Ministry. She suggests who should be involved, when to hold the meeting, and more.

Karl and Laurie also talk about how healthy small churches are uniquely suited to meet the needs of youth and kids in an environment that values relationships and connection over programs and professionalism.

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Pastoring in a post-Christian context is different. The more counter-cultural our faith becomes, the more important it is to understand that Christian consumerism is deadly and church cooperation is essential.

Karl Vaters talks with Dan Nichols about these subjects, including:

• Negotiating a cultural shift in a longstanding church
• Partnering with other churches
• Bridging the big/small church divide
• And more

Dan Nichols is the pastor of Grace Christian Fellowship in Cortland NY, and the founder of Northeast Collaborative.

Links:

• Northeast Collaborative
• The Bible Project
• GotQuestions.org
• Bless App
• Soularium
• Sean McDowell YouTube
• Constable's Notes
• Everand

​Bonus Content

Karl Vaters talks with Dan Nichols about Creating a Spirit of Generosity in a Local Church. Dan’s church takes an offering every year that they give away in its entirety to ministries outside their church. This year it will go to nine other local churches that they work alongside.

Karl and Dan talk about how that kind of generosity happens, and what a pastor can do to start moving a church away from fear and toward being outrageously generous.

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