The Church Lobby

Alberto Bello is a church planter in Bakersfield CA, and he’s written one of those books everyone says they could write, Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership.

Karl Vaters talks with Alberto about that book, the experiences that led to it, and the lessons to be learned from it.

Including:

• Knowing who you are in Jesus
• The Comparison Trap
• How failure is necessary for success
• How not to be people-pleasing leader
• And more

Links:

Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership

Mike Rubino is a pastor in the unique ministry environment of Long Island NY. He’s also the founder and director of Church Revitalize, which helps churches that need to revitalize their ministry, through cohorts, coaching, and more.

Karl Vaters talks with Mike about church revitalization, with a focus on Mike’s new workbook, The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health.

Subjects include:

• The difference between church growth and church revitalization
• The importance of pastoral health and renewal
• How to understand and fix your church’s blind spots
• Identifying your church’s God-given Geographic Responsibility
• And more

Links:

• Church Revitalize
• The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health
• BeTheChurch.org
• Book - Crucial Conversations

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Every church should be open to everyone who wants to attend. So, we need to be more purposeful about making sure we're not unintentionally denying access without realizing it.

Barbara Stanley oversees Wonderful Works Ministry, which equips churches to serve families affected by disability. They have a large and growing set of resources to help churches of all types.

Karl Vaters talks with Barb about a variety of subjects, including:

• Why disability inclusion matters
• How to come alongside families who are affected by disability
• How every church can take some simple first steps toward disability inclusion
• How to deal with some of the changing language around disability

Links:

• Wonderful Works Ministry
• Podcast: Wonderful Works Talks

A clergy sabbatical is not a luxury for the few, it’s an essential element in recalibrating your ministry and reestablishing healthy habits for ministry longevity.

Sabbaticals are having a moment right now. With the accelerated pace of life and ministry, we’re recognizing their value in a fresh, new way.

Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of a sabbatical. And now they’ve put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,, a practical guide that will help pastors, their congregations, and their families.

Karl Vaters talkes with Sean talk about the aspects of an effective sabbatical, including:

• What is a sabbatical?
• Why is a sabbatical important for pastors?
• What’s the ideal sabbatical length?
• Dealing with common objections to taking a sabbatical
• Financial considerations
• And more

Links:

• Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,
• Pastor In Residence Ministries

Anger, Depression, and Temptation: Dealing with the Unexpected on Your Sabbatical, with Sean Nemecek

Stuff happens when you step away from the hectic pace of everyday ministry life to take a multi-month sabbatical. Most of it is good, some of it is surprising, and if you’re not ready for it, some of it can cause damage.

Thankfully, Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of their sabbaticals. And now they’ve put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit.

In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Sean about some of the unexpected things that happen on sabbatical, so you can be prepared to get the most out of your time of refreshing and renewal.

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Have you ever noticed that people don’t pay attention to sermons the way they used to? It may not be the fault of shorter attention spans (not exclusively, anyway). There’s a lot more happening — and we, as pastors and communicators can do something about it.

Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer. He's a pastor, and the founder of ChristianStoryLab.com, a new website that offers great ideas to make our writing and speaking more engaging by using the aspects of story — just like Jesus did.

Some of what they talk about includes: 

• Gamification
• The Open Loop Method
• The Anapastic Meter

Links:

• ChristianStoryLab.com
• 3 Proven Strategies to Gamify Your Storytelling
• Open Loop Method: Hook Your Reader And Keep Their Attention
• The Secret To Unforgettable Stories (The Anapastic Meter)
• ChurchFuel.com

You can follow Payton on LinkedIn and X.

Bonus video (Supporters and Subscribers only)

3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing and Speaking, with Payton Minzenmayer

Storytelling is the most powerful form of communication. But most of us could use help to do it better. Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer, of ChristianStoryLab.com, about the three habits Payton uses every day to strengthen his storytelling muscles. They’re simple, repeatable, and so helpful.

Links:

• ChristianStoryLab.com
• 3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing In 30 Days Or Less

To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

According to John’s vision in Revelation 7:9, heaven will be filled with people who are still recognized by their ethnicity (every nation, tribe, people, and language). So, if we want the church here and now to reflect that, Sunday mornings must stop being the most segregated time of the week.

That’s the premise of Karl Vaters’ conversation with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, the co-authors of In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, which Karl named as one of his best nonfiction books of the year for 2024.

Jamaal and Timothy focus on what we can do to create a more kingdom-minded approach to ethnic diversity, while acknowledging that ethnic diversity is not the point of the church, but a byproduct of the gospel message.

Links:

• In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture

Bonus video

3 Steps to Move Your Church Toward Multiethnic Generosity, with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones

One of the habits (liturgies) that Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones suggest in their book,  In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, is to help your church move toward multiethnic generosity.

Karl Vaters talks with them as they suggest a simple plan to visit a faithful, gospel-driven church outside your own ethnicity or culture once every three months. Embrace this habit as an opportunity to learn from sisters and brothers in other cultures. And when you do, walk through these three steps:

1. Consider your own preferences
2. Visit the other church
3. Be grateful for your preferences—and be willing to lay them down

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The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. Not just for eternity, but for the world here and now.

According to Glen Scrivener, the author of The Air We Breathe, How We All Came to Believe In Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality, most of what we now consider to be self-evident human values were not so evident or common before Jesus.

In this conversation, Karl and Glen talk about:

• How so many principles that most people consider universal, are actually the result of the Christian worldview
• Why this goes unnoticed by people, Christians and non-Christians alike
• Why it’s important to regain this understanding
• What the values of the world looked like before the cross upended everything
• How a clear understanding of the first three chapters of Genesis is the foundation for all of it

Podcast Links:

• Speak Life
• Book: The Air We Breathe: How We All Came to Believe in Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality
• Book: 3 2 1: The Story of God, the World and You

Bonus Summary

How Good Theology Became the Basis for Good Science, with Glen Scrivener

Good theology and good science are good friends. In this short conversation with Glen Scrivener, Karl Vaters asks him about the three legs upon which this reality sits.

These three principles become clear when we have a better understanding of the first three chapters of the Bible:

1. The freedom of God
2. That humans can understand God’s ways
3. Taking human fallibility into account

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Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about what we can learn from those who are deconstructing their faith.

This conversation is based on the content of Scot’s new book (co-written with Tommy Preson Phillips), Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ.

This is a challenging book and a challenging conversation, especially if you are to the right of center theologically and politically (like Scot and Karl). But I encourage you not to write it off for those reasons.

Scot makes the case, through personal observation and thorough statistics, that people who use a term like “deconstruction” are probably not leaving Jesus, but are usually trying to find a simpler, more genuine representation of him than what they’ve seen in many of our churches. Deconstructors are asking important questions and shining a light on issues we need to pay attention to.

 Links from this Episode:

• Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ
• The New Testament In Color
• Nick Crawley - Bible For Life

The Three Stages of Deconstruction

From chapter 6 of Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ, Scot McKnight shares the three distinct steps most deconstructors go through (Liminality, Elimination, and Liberation), and what they mean.

Knowing these phases can be very helpful for us, as church leaders, to be involved in the conversation with them. When we step into this space instead of running from it, we have the chance to learn, and to guide them as they seek to draw closer to Jesus.

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Karl Vaters interviews Matt Lucas about starting your congregation on the road to spiritual maturity through increasing their Bible reading. Specifically, how reading the Bible at least four times a week is so powerful, it's been called "The Power of Four."

Matt is the CEO of Our Daily Bread (known for their quarterly devotionals) and The Center for Bible Engagement.

Karl and Matt talk about:

• What is The Power of Four?
• Why does reading the Bible 4+ times a week make such a difference in spiritual maturity?
• The importance of reading and hearing the Bible in church
• Helpful ways to gauge spiritual maturity
• How to use Power of Four to help a congregation become more mature

Links:

• Bible Engagement: A Key to Spiritual Growth
• Center for Bible Engagement
• A Non Anxious Presence by Mark Sayers
• 
  

A Congregational Survey to Help Track Your Congregation’s Spiritual Maturity, with Matt Lucas

How do you know if your congregation is maturing? Tracking church attendance is not enough.

Matt Lucas and the team at Our Daily Bread are creating a powerful new tool to help pastors and their congregations.

In this Bonus Material, Karl Vaters talks with Matt as he shows us this new tool, explaining what it will do, how easy it will be, and how you’ll be able to use it to lead your congregation well.

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Retirement isn’t what it used to be. In the U.S. military, retirement is mandatory at 62 years of age, but U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain (MAJ) Lisa A. Northway is an exception to that. Lisa, who’s currently stationed in Fort Sill, OK, has been called the “Grandma Moses” of the Army Chaplaincy. She recently received permission to extend her chaplaincy for a few more years.

In this podcast, Karl Vaters talks with Lisa about how to have vibrant ministry past retirement age, including

• The value of long-term experience in today’s ministry environment
• How to pace yourself for the long-term
• How not to block the way for younger ministers
• How to mentor younger ministers

Links from this Episode:

• Elizabeth Fulgaro's Eagles Nest
• Book: The Fantasy Fallacy by Shannon Ethridge
• Book: Unwanted by Jay Stringer
• Book: The Awakened Brain by Dr. Lisa Miller

Bonus Content

Navigating the Challenges of Being a Woman In Ministry, with Lisa Northway

What roles does the Bible allow women to serve in the church? This is a hot-button topic, for sure. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain Lisa Northway about the challenges she faces as a woman in ministry, and how to address those issues among the troops she serves.

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