The Co-Living Show

By Craig Curelop and Miller McSwainBusiness Entrepreneurship Education Self-Improvement Investing

The Co-Living Show episodes

November 11EP 40 - How Ryan Chaw Built 14 Student Rentals and Retired from Pharmacy at 31
What if renting bedrooms to college students could help you retire from your W-2 job before turning 32?
In this episode of The Co-Living Show, Craig Curelop and Miller McSwain sit down with Ryan Chaw, a former pharmacist turned full-time real estate investor who built a portfolio of 14 student rental properties and achieved financial freedom at just 31 years old.
Ryan started investing in 2016 while working long shifts as a pharmacist. Inspired by his grandfather's success in real estate, he discovered the power of renting individual bedrooms to college students. Today, his portfolio spans California and Ohio, with some properties generating as much as $4,000 per month in cash flow after expenses.
But Ryan's success wasn't just about buying properties. He developed a system for selecting college markets, converting homes into profitable student rentals, finding reliable tenants, and leveraging equity to scale his portfolio.
In this episode, you'll learn:
How Ryan went from pharmacist to full-time real estate investor at 31
Why student housing is an overlooked opportunity in co-living
How he converts traditional single-family homes into 5- to 6-bedroom rentals
His three-part strategy for choosing the right college, property, and tenants
How he markets directly to universities, student organizations, and athletic teams
Why parental guarantors can be a major advantage in student housing
How he uses HELOCs and cash-out refinancing to expand his portfolio
The differences between investing for cash flow in Ohio and appreciation in California
How virtual assistants and property management systems help him manage remotely
His biggest student rental mistakes and lessons learned
Whether you're considering your first rent-by-the-room investment or looking for ways to expand your existing co-living portfolio, Ryan shares practical strategies for building a profitable student housing business.
🔗 Connect With Ryan Chaw
Website: https://www.newbierealestateinvesting.com
Free Student Housing Guide: https://www.newbierealestateinvesting.com/guide
🎙️ Connect With the Hosts
Miller McSwain
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
📖 Get the Co-Living Cash Flow Book:
https://colivingbook.com
🏡 Learn More About HomeCrew:
https://homecrew.co
Subscribe to The Co-Living Show for more conversations with real estate investors, co-living operators, and entrepreneurs building financial freedom through shared housing.
57 min
November 04EP 39 - The Future of Co-Living: AI, Automation, and the Power of Community
What can American co-living investors learn from Europe's approach to shared housing?
In this episode of The Co-Living Show, hosts Craig Curelop and Miller McSwain welcome Gui Perdrix, a European co-living expert, author of The Art of Coliving, and former president of Co-Liv, to explore how community, technology, and automation are shaping the future of the co-living industry.
Originally from France, raised in Germany, and now based in Portugal, Gui brings a unique international perspective to the conversation. After operating co-living spaces across Europe, Asia, and Latin America, visiting approximately 200 co-living spaces worldwide, and advising operators across different markets, he's seen firsthand what makes shared housing communities thrive.
While many American co-living operators focus primarily on maximizing rental income, Gui shares how European operators have embraced a more community-centered approach that prioritizes resident experience, meaningful connections, and long-term retention.
But the conversation doesn't stop at community building. Gui, Craig, and Miller also explore how AI is transforming property management, helping operators automate repetitive tasks while preserving the human connections that make co-living successful.
In this episode, you'll learn:
What American co-living operators can learn from Europe's community-focused approach.
Why stronger resident relationships can lead to higher retention and more stable occupancy.
How to create meaningful community experiences, even when managing hundreds of rooms.
How AI can streamline cleaning schedules, maintenance, invoicing, and resident onboarding.
Which repetitive property management tasks operators should automate first.
Why maintaining a human touch could become a major competitive advantage as AI becomes more widespread.
How co-living regulations and housing trends differ between Europe and the United States.
The biggest takeaway? The future of co-living isn't just about smarter technology or maximizing the number of bedrooms. It's about combining efficient operations with a living experience that makes residents want to stay.
Whether you're managing your first rental property or scaling a co-living portfolio, this episode offers a fresh international perspective on building a profitable, resident-centered business.
Connect & Learn More:
Follow Miller McSwain: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Follow Craig Curelop: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
Explore Gui Perdrix's website: https://guiperdrix.com/
Subscribe to The Co-Living Show for more conversations about co-living investing, property management, and building profitable shared housing businesses.
1 hr 2 min
October 29EP 38 - How Andres Martinez Built 107 Co-Living Rooms and Automated His Property Management with AI
What if you could build a portfolio of 107 co-living rooms without spending your days answering tenant messages, handling maintenance requests, and managing every little detail?
In this episode of The Co-Living Show, hosts Miller McSwain and Craig Curelop sit down with Andres Martinez, a real estate investor and entrepreneur who went from working multiple jobs as an immigrant from Peru to building a 107-room co-living portfolio across 14 properties in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Andres shares how he acquired 10 properties in just 18 months using creative financing, subject-to deals, seller financing, and private money partnerships. He also breaks down his first co-living investment, which he acquired with just $3,000 down and eventually generated approximately $2,750 in monthly cash flow.
But what makes Andres's story even more fascinating is how he's using artificial intelligence to transform property management.
Instead of relying entirely on traditional property management systems, Andres built his own AI-powered software to automate tenant inquiries, schedule showings, troubleshoot maintenance requests, handle resident communications, and resolve everyday house issues.
In this episode, you'll learn:
How Andres went from working restaurant jobs to becoming a full-time real estate investor
How he acquired 10 co-living properties in just 18 months
The creative financing strategies that helped him scale without traditional bank loans
The numbers behind his first co-living investment
Why he prioritizes cash flow over equity and appreciation
How he trained AI using real tenant conversations and operational data
How AI handles tenant acquisition, maintenance, and resident communication
Why human oversight is still essential when automating property management
Practical ways co-living operators can start incorporating AI into their businesses
Whether you're buying your first co-living property or managing an expanding portfolio, this conversation is packed with lessons on creative financing, building scalable systems, and using technology to create more freedom.
🔗 Connect With Us
Andres Martinez
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andresmartinezrei/
Miller McSwain
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thefiguy/
📖 Get the Co-Living Cash Flow Book:
https://colivingbook.com
🏡 Learn More About HomeCrew:
https://homecrew.co
🎙️ Subscribe to The Co-Living Show for more conversations with investors, operators, and entrepreneurs who are redefining real estate through co-living.
1 hr 3 min
October 22EP 37 - The 8 Must-Haves for Smooth and Profitable Co-Living Operations
What separates a profitable co-living property from one that's constantly creating headaches for its owner?
In this solo episode of The Co-Living Show, Craig Curelop and Miller McSwain break down the eight must-haves for running co-living homes smoothly, efficiently, and profitably.
With approximately 300 rooms under management, Craig and Miller have seen what works, what doesn't, and which seemingly small property decisions can create major operational challenges.
From parking and bathroom ratios to storage, security, and reliable internet, they share practical lessons from their own portfolio, including mistakes they've made, systems they've improved, and the non-negotiables they now look for in every property.
In This Episode, You'll Learn:
Why parking can make or break a co-living property's operations
The ideal resident-to-bathroom ratio and when overcrowding becomes a problem
How organized storage helps prevent conflicts between housemates
Why common areas matter for resident satisfaction and retention
How smart locks and security cameras help protect residents and properties
What every co-living kitchen needs to function efficiently
How to approach laundry setups in larger co-living homes
Why reliable, high-speed internet is a non-negotiable
How to balance adding more bedrooms with maintaining a great resident experience
The biggest takeaway? More bedrooms don't automatically mean a better investment. A truly profitable co-living property is one that's designed to operate efficiently, minimize unnecessary headaches, and keep residents happy.
Whether you're purchasing your first co-living property or scaling an existing portfolio, these eight essentials can help you make smarter decisions.
Resource & Connect With Us
📘 Get the Co-Living Book:
https://colivingbook.com
📸 Follow Craig Curelop on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
📸 Follow Miller McSwain on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
If you enjoyed this episode, follow The Co-Living Show and share it with another investor or operator looking to build a smoother, more profitable co-living business!
44 min
October 14EP 36 - How to Buy Real Estate with Creative Financing (Without Getting Burned)
What if you could buy a rental property with a 3% interest rate in today's market? Creative financing can make that possible, but one poorly structured deal could cost you thousands.
In this episode of The Co-Living Show, Miller McSwain and Craig Curelop sit down with Caleb Christopher, real estate investor and owner of Creative Title, to break down how subject-to deals, seller financing, and wraparound mortgages actually work.
Caleb shares how he went from accidental landlord to creative financing specialist, including a deal where he took over a property with a 3.65% mortgage rate and the sellers actually paid him to take it off their hands.
But creative financing isn't just about finding great deals. Caleb explains the risks investors often overlook, how to protect both buyers and sellers, and why doing things ethically matters just as much as making money.
In this episode, you'll learn:
How subject-to financing works and why investors use it to acquire properties with existing low-interest mortgages
The differences between subject-to deals, seller financing, and wraparound mortgages
How Caleb acquired a property with a 3.65% interest rate and almost nothing out of pocket
What happens when a lender enforces the due-on-sale clause
How to structure creative deals to reduce risk for both buyers and sellers
Why creative financing isn't always a zero-money-down strategy
How combining creative financing with co-living can improve investment returns
The importance of transparency, ethical negotiations, and having multiple exit strategies
Whether you're buying your first rental or looking to scale your co-living portfolio, this episode offers practical insights into structuring creative real estate deals without exposing yourself to unnecessary risks.
Connect with Caleb Christopher:
Personal website and resources: https://calebchristopher.io
Creative Title: https://creativetitle.io
Connect with the Hosts:
Miller McSwain: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
Learn More About Co-Living:
Property Management: https://www.homecrew.co
The Co-Living Book: https://colivingbook.com
If you enjoyed this episode, follow The Co-Living Show and share it with another real estate investor!
54 min
October 07 EP 35 - How to Run Co-Living Properties From Halfway Around the World
What does it actually take to run co-living properties when you live halfway around the world?
In this episode of The Co-Living Show, Miller McSwain and Craig Curelop sit down with Oren Kachel, an investor based in Israel who owns and operates U.S. real estate remotely, including co-living properties in smaller markets like Clarksville, Tennessee and Montana.
Oren shares how he went from fix-and-flips and multifamily investing to deciding to go all-in on co-living. He explains why he prefers smaller markets, how he evaluates properties from thousands of miles away, and why finding the right boots-on-the-ground team matters even more than finding the perfect property.
They also discuss:
• How Oren manages U.S. co-living properties from Israel
• Why he prefers smaller markets over major metros
• How he found a traditional property manager willing to learn co-living
• What he looks for when interviewing property managers
• Why he chose not to use PadSplit for his current properties
• How he markets rooms without PadSplit
• His ideal co-living property criteria
• Why HOAs, septic systems, and smaller homes can be deal breakers
• Using seller financing and creative finance to acquire properties
• Why Oren plans to sell his non-co-living properties and focus on co-living
• How stepping away from daily operations can make scaling possible
Whether you are investing 100 miles away or halfway across the world, this episode offers practical lessons on building a team, choosing markets, managing remotely, and creating a co-living business that does not depend on you being physically present.
Connect with Oren Kachel:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oren_kachel/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oren.kachel
Connect with the hosts:
Miller McSwain
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
Follow The Co-Living Show for more conversations about co-living investing, acquisitions, property management, operations, creative finance, and building profitable shared-housing portfolios.
37 min
October 01EP 34 - Build With the Exit in Mind: Co-Living Resale with Josh Stanton
Build With the Exit in Mind: Co-Living Resale with Josh Stanton
Most co-living investors spend a lot of time thinking about how to buy a property, renovate it, fill the rooms, and maximize cash flow.
But what happens when it’s time to sell?
In this episode of The Co-Living Show, Craig Curelop and Miller McSwain sit down with Josh Stanton, a longtime co-living investor and real estate agent in Atlanta who has been involved with PadSplit since its earliest days.
Josh started with a simple house hack, buying a home and renting rooms to lower his own housing costs. That eventually led him into co-living, where he became one of PadSplit’s earliest hosts and began helping other investors buy, operate, and eventually sell co-living properties.
The conversation goes deep into one side of co-living that does not get discussed enough: the exit.
Josh explains why the decisions you make during your renovation can have a major impact on your resale options later. Adding bedrooms may increase cash flow, but unusual layouts, eliminated common areas, unpermitted square footage, and financing complications can make a property much harder to sell.
They also discuss appraisal challenges, finding lenders who understand co-living, selling occupied properties, creating comps for the industry, and what Josh learned from helping sell everything from individual PadSplits to large co-living portfolios.
In this episode:
How Josh went from house hacking to becoming an early PadSplit host
Why you should think about resale before starting your renovation
How property configuration can affect your eventual sale price
What makes a co-living property harder for lenders and appraisers to understand
Why permitting matters, especially when adding finished square footage
When a high-performing co-living property may command a premium
How Josh has sold occupied co-living properties
Lessons from selling co-living portfolios
How to position a co-living property for investors
Why having co-living-savvy lenders, appraisers, and agents matters
Josh has also been building a network of real estate agents who understand co-living so investors can connect with knowledgeable professionals in markets around the country.
Connect with Josh Stanton
Stanton Team Co-Living:
https://stantonteamcoliving.com
Stanton Team:
https://stanton.team
Email:
[email protected]
Lenders Mentioned in This Episode
Jeffrey Weller / Jay Hussey | Coast2Coast Mortgage
NMLS #376205 | MLO NMLS #385022
Office: 904-500-LOAN (5626)
Jay: 904-322-4340
Jeff: [email protected]
Jay: [email protected]
https://www.coast2coastmortgage.com
Theodore Alexander Palacino | Autumn Financial Group
VP & Certified Mortgage Planning Specialist
NMLS #1672515
Tel: 864-373-1015
Office: 864-643-9998
[email protected]
https://www.autumnfinancialgroup.com
Fernando Corona | RemoteLendr
NMLS #2479804 | DRE #02073669
626-714-2440
[email protected]
FOLLOW THE HOSTS
Miller McSwain
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to The Co-Living Show, leave a comment, and share it with another investor who needs to start thinking about their exit before they build.
#Coliving #RealEstateInvesting #PadSplit #HouseHacking #RealEstate #RentalProperty #CashFlow #RealEstateInvestor
1 hr 2 min
September 24EP 33 - Everything Co-Living Investors Need to Know About Financing | Jeffrey Weller
Financing a co-living property can get complicated fast—especially when traditional lenders, underwriters, and appraisers don’t fully understand the model.
In this episode of The Co-Living Show, Miller McSwain and Craig Curelop sit down with Jeffrey Weller, CEO of Coast 2 Coast Mortgage, to break down what co-living investors need to know about financing their properties.
Jeff shares how his own experience buying and converting a PadSplit led him to recognize the challenges investors face when trying to finance room-rental properties. That experience eventually pushed him deeper into developing lending solutions specifically for co-living and PadSplit investors.
The conversation covers everything from acquisitions and renovations to appraisals, DSCR loans, refinancing, master leases, individual room leases, BRRRR strategies, and what investors should look for when choosing a lender.
They also discuss:
How Jeff went from electrical engineering to mortgage lending and real estate investing
What happened when Jeff converted his first property into an eight-bedroom PadSplit
Why appraisals can become one of the biggest obstacles in co-living financing
How experienced co-living lenders approach appraiser panels
Why some traditional lenders reject co-living and room-rental properties
PadSplit-specific loans versus other co-living financing structures
Master leases versus individual room leases
How investors can prepare for underwriting and appraisal
Financing large bedroom-count properties
Using the BRRRR strategy with co-living conversions
How bedroom counts, closets, basements, kitchens, and flex spaces can affect an appraisal
Questions investors should ask before choosing a lender
Where Jeff believes co-living lending is headed as the model becomes more mainstream
Why building a team of professionals who actually understand co-living can save investors significant time and frustration
Whether you're buying your first rent-by-the-room property or already operating a larger co-living portfolio, this episode provides a detailed look at how the financing side of the business actually works.
Connect with Jeffrey Weller
Jeffrey Weller
CEO, Coast to Coast Mortgage
Website: https://investorxperts.com
Office: 904-500-LOAN
Phone: 904-500-5626
Email: [email protected]
Calendly: https://calendly.com/coast2coastmortgage
Connect with the Hosts
Miller McSwain
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
Follow The Co-Living Show for more conversations about co-living investing, acquisitions, operations, property management, financing, and building profitable shared-housing portfolios.
1 hr 2 min
September 16EP 32 - From House Hacker to 56 Rooms: How Networking Built Yoni Kaszynski’s Co-Living Business
Yoni Kaszynski is back on The Co-Living Show nearly a year after his first appearance — and a lot has changed.
What started with a house hack has grown into a 56-room co-living operation across properties he owns and manages in the Seattle area. Along the way, Yoni has expanded beyond simply buying properties into real estate sales, consulting, property services, and helping other investors launch their own co-living homes.
In this episode, Yoni joins Miller McSwain and Craig Curelop to break down what changed as he scaled — including his decision to finally give PadSplit a try after operating his first properties independently.
They discuss:
How Yoni grew from house hacking to 30 owned rooms and 26 managed rooms
Why networking became one of the biggest drivers of his growth
His transition from off-PadSplit operations to using PadSplit
PadSplit vs. running your own co-living systems
Lead generation, resident acquisition, pricing, fees, and operational control
Why larger bedroom counts can be necessary in expensive markets like Washington
Screening residents and how Yoni uses Forewarn
The opportunities he found in property services, consulting, and real estate sales
Lessons from difficult contractors
Leaving the W-2 world and building a full-time real estate career
Yoni’s story is a great example of how relationships, reputation, and being willing to rethink your systems can open up new opportunities as a co-living business grows.
Connect with Yoni Kaszynski:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yonikaszynski/
Website: https://cascadecoliving.com/
Connect with the hosts:
Miller McSwain: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
51 min
September 10 EP 31 - How to Negotiate Real Estate Deals: The SCALE Framework
Negotiating a real estate deal isn’t just about getting the lowest price.
In this solo episode of The Co-Living Show, Miller McSwain and Craig Curelop break down the SCALE Framework, the negotiation process they use to structure deals that work for both the buyer and the seller.
They walk through how to understand seller motivation, create valuable terms beyond purchase price, use new information from inspections and due diligence to renegotiate, establish your limits before emotions take over, and ultimately engineer a win-win deal.
You’ll also hear real examples from deals they’ve negotiated, including seller financing, subject-to financing, inspection credits, flexible closing timelines, renovation considerations, and knowing when it’s better to simply walk away.
The SCALE Framework:
S — Study the Seller
Understand why they’re selling, what they actually need, and which terms matter most to them.
C — Create Valuable Terms
Look beyond price and negotiate things like seller credits, closing dates, financing terms, repairs, furnishings, and flexibility.
A — Analyze New Information
Use inspections, contractor estimates, sewer scopes, roof evaluations, and other due diligence findings to strengthen your negotiation.
L — Lock In Your Limits
Know your investment criteria before entering the negotiation and don’t let FOMO convince you to buy a deal that no longer works.
E — Engineer a Win-Win
Structure the final agreement so both sides can walk away feeling like the deal accomplished what they needed.
Whether you’re buying your first rental property or actively scaling a co-living portfolio, this framework can help you negotiate with more confidence, discipline, and creativity.
Follow the hosts:
Miller McSwain
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millermcswain/
Craig Curelop
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/craigcurelop/
Learn more about HomeCrew:
https://homecrew.co/landlords
44 min

About The Co-Living Show

From the publisher's feed

Co-living is one of the most misunderstood, and highest-potential, strategies in residential real estate investing. Most investors hear the buzzwords, see the cash-flow claims, and immediately…

assume it’s either too risky, too operationally intense, or too complicated to scale. The truth is simpler: coliving work exceptionally well when built on systems, governed by operational clarity, and executed like a real business, not a side hustle. The Co-Living Show exists to make that clarity accessible for serious professionals who want smarter returns without gambling on guesswork.

Hosted by BiggerPockets authors Craig Curelop and Miller McSwain, The Co-Living Show goes far beyond surface-level real estate content. This is the only real estate investing podcast dedicated exclusively to the economics, operations, regulations, and strategic frameworks that drive high-density co-living and shared housing at scale. Whether you’re new to the model or a high-earning, time-poor professional seeking exposure to a sophisticated cash-flow real estate strategy without becoming an operator, this show delivers the confidence, understanding, and insight needed to invest intelligently.

Each episode takes you inside the real-world systems behind co-living performance. You’ll hear from operators running multi-market portfolios, attorneys specializing in zoning and compliance, designers who understand space optimization and profitability, lenders financing room-by-room rental strategies, and property managers and city officials shaping the future of affordable housing innovation. You’ll also hear from the Co-Living Cash Flow Community, everyday investors solving operational challenges and executing the exact frameworks discussed on the show.

👉 Join the community: www.millermcswain.com/community

There is no fluff here. No hype. No motivational noise. Every conversation is grounded in data, regulatory insight, operational logic, and investor-level clarity. Co-living is not “passive income.” It’s not a shortcut. It’s a system. And systems — when executed correctly — produce scalable, predictable returns that outperform traditional rental models. This is not speculative theory. It’s cash-flow real estate strategy in action.

Craig brings acquisitions, underwriting, and market strategy. Miller brings operations, pricing systems, and standardization frameworks that make coliving scalable. Together, they deliver an operator’s perspective of an asset class most investors only see from the outside. As BiggerPockets authors, educators, and practitioners, they simplify complexity without diluting truth: coliving works, but only when done correctly.

You’ll hear underwriting breakdowns, operator case studies, deal teardowns, regulatory realities, tenant strategy, market analysis, and the economic logic behind high-density residential investing. You’ll learn how to invest passively, partner with experienced operators, or simply understand the business model in depth, even if you never plan to manage a property yourself.

The Co-Living Show does not claim co-living works.
It proves when, why, and under what conditions it works.

If you want confidence instead of conjecture, systems instead of speculation, and clarity instead of chaos, this is your source of truth for professional-grade residential real estate investing.

Subscribe and join thousands of investors building deeper understanding, stronger portfolios, and smarter strategies, without wasting time on noise.

This is the future of residential real estate investing. And now you’ll finally understand how it works.