The Codependummy Podcast

• What hints can we gather about our codependency through how we communicate with others, like saying “we” instead of “me” all the time?
• How do we look back at the roots of our codependency in order to grow?
• Why repeatedly asking ourselves “How does this serve me?” will help us communicate better with ourselves and others?

In this week’s episode, Marissa sits down with Ana Robles, Master NLP Coach, to hear about ways codependents can improve how they communicate with themselves and others. Ana shares about her use of NLP, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, with her coaching clients and how it truly helps them become more conscious and aware of what they and others are communicating. Ana also reveals with us how she works with her coaching clients to investigate the “significant event” in their life that often contributes to limiting beliefs about themselves, which can manifest in a variety of ways, including codependency. We conclude with Marissa asking Ana about questions we can ask ourselves to get clear on what we want and say “yes” to ourselves. It’s a must-listen!

About this week’s guest: Ana Robles is a coach helping entrepreneurs, career minded individuals design and create the life they dream of and desire in business and in their personal life by bringing clarity, removing the negative self-talk, and developing the systems necessary to design the life they desire and deserve.

Ana’s contact info:

www.yosoyamazing.com

https://www.instagram.com/yo_soy_amazing/

https://www.facebook.com/yosoyamazing

https://www.linkedin.com/in/anayulisarobles/

Ana’s SUCCESS BOOT CAMP: September 25, 2021 at 10am PST - https://yosoyamazing.com/our-event/

More details on this week’s episode:

1. How does Ana define codependency? 

“Codependency is someone who is not able to function on their own thinking and whose thinking and behavior is organized around another person, process, or substance.” She discusses how many codependents fail to prioritize their own needs and are obsessively preoccupied with the needs of others. 

1. Does Ana have any experiences of codependency from her own life?

Yes! Ana discusses how she was dependent on coffee, in her family, and in other relationships. “I have put others first instead of my own happiness.” Ana shares how she would put herself second, say “no” to herself by saying “yes” to others and basing her happiness on them. 

“I learned to say yes to me and no to what wasn’t fulfilling me.” Ana expands on her relationships in her family--being the planner, helper, and going where they wanted her to go. 

1. With her coaching clients, what are some auditory, visual, behavioral cues she’s witnessed as “red flags” for codependent behavior?

Ana describes how she has clients who are struggling with THEIR SCHEDULING due to codependency: “I can't do this...I have to put my life on hold...because I need to do X for another person.” Ana shares how she perceives this as their life is put on hold for someone else. 

Besides scheduling, she sees her client’s have SELF-WORTH based on someone else’s opinion. They select their clothing, make choices, and are always PLEASING, PLEASING, PLEASING. Ana adds how worthiness is also a “red flag” for her when she hears her coaching clients seek worth through the opinion of others. 

“I feel that it’s always a cycle. You can remove part of it, yet, it will show up in life again until you get the lesson you’re supposed to get. It’s about finding the significant experience in your life, work through it, then apply that for the rest of your life so you can let go of what doesn’t serve you.”

1. How does Ana witness codependency blocking clarity, worsen negative self-talk, lead us to design a life others desire for us?

“When we are being codependent on someone else’s dreams, goals, desires, we are so focused on what that person wants and needs. We give so much to that other person...because we want to please them. What happens internally is we aren’t filling our cup and we are so empty that we’re not open to allow creativity, growth, abundance to flow in.”

“As a coach, I get to ask the hard questions. I do it in a loving way so I can ask what you really are saying since you might not hear yourself. I then can lead you where you really want to be led.”

1. What is NLP?!

“NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) is about learning how to communicate and understand the communication of others.” NLP is about teaching us how to communicate with everyone and the emotional components when we don’t properly communicate: it’s mental, emotional, and psychology based. It’s about understanding our internal operating system, our unconscious mind, and how that is and has affected our life. 

1. How does Ana use NLP to help her clients work through significant past events?

“When I’m working with clients, we figure out when they created a limiting belief/decision about themselves.” Ana helps them tap into their unconscious mind and take the positive out of that experience. 

Ana describes how she begins with a belief, looks at all the experiences related to it, and then how one can change how they interact with others thanks to creating a new belief/a new way of interacting with others. 

1. How can codependents be empowered through NLP?

“With NLP, there are so many different tools.” When Ana works with a codependent client, she helps empower them through other tools like anchoring, reframing, linguistics, and so on. She helps her clients figure out what the root is and re-programming, reframing, and giving them different tools so they can interact differently with others. “It’s about helping them step into their excellence.” 

1. How does Ana avoid breeding codependency in her coaching clients?

“It’s about empowering them.” She discusses how she has her boundaries and also does all she can to empower her clients so they aren’t so dependent on her. She wants them to create independent, self-reliant, and intuitive choices that she supports. Ana does not want her clients calling her all the time--she gives them homework, “pulls out their excellence,” and helps them get in touch with themselves. That way, they aren’t heavily reliant on her all the time and can start to create changes in their life that are sustainable. 

1. What’s one tool Ana recommends we use to combat our codependency?

“Ask yourself: how does this serve me?” She expands and describes how, if it doesn’t serve you, then ask yourself “What do I need to do to put myself first?” It’s hard but she wants to help people get in touch with how the actions they are taking are serving or not serving them. “Am I saying yes or no to me?” If you are saying “no” to yourself, then you need to make changes to start saying “yes” to yourself. Or ask yourself “How is this making me feel?” If it’s making you feel uncomfortable, Ana highlights how we have to listen to that part--the feeling--and honor that instead of keep ignoring ourselves. “What do I need to do to put myself first?”

1. Any other NLP wisdom to share?

“NLP is a vehicle, or a tool, that if you use it...you’ll have a new way of communicating.” Ana describes the changes you will start to make in your communication and how much more aware you’ll be while in conversation with yourself and others. “If I can impact one person and that person can impact another, this world can be different...it’s always about making things better for others.”

As always, thank you for listening!

www.codependummy.com

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

https://linktr.ee/codependummy

• How, in their pursuit to become doctors, do students act in codependent ways with their teachers, parents, and peers?
• What happens to students when they pursue a career, like medicine, not for themselves but for their parents, for status, or approval (codependent much?)?
• How can we avoid pursuing a career, in medicine or ANYWHERE, to please others and instead follow our own dreams despite others’ disapproval?

In this week’s episode, Marissa talks with Dr. Joon Kim, a formal medical student, about the work he does with medical school applicants and the codependent behaviors he’s witnessed in them. Dr. Kim shares with us about the students he’s worked with who have chosen to pursue medicine “for their parents” and how codependent they’ve been on the approval of their teachers or acceptance into certain schools. Dr. Kim reflects on the frequency of burnout in medical students and how codependent behaviors may be a big contributor. We conclude with ways Dr. Kim helps his students determine what they want to do for their careers and pursue that in a healthy, independent manner. It’s a must-listen!

About this week’s guest: Dr. Joon Kim is a former premedical student turned professor and advisor. Dr. Kim knows first-hand the experience regarding what it means to be "premed". Though not a physician today, he has been helping students gain admission into medical school as well as many other graduate programs for the past 18 years. He offers advising for medical school applicants.

Dr. Kim’s contact information:  

[email protected]

www.medicalschooladvising.com

Join his free and private Facebook group for medical school applicants: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MedschoolApp101/?ref=share 

More details on this week’s episode with Dr. Kim:

1. How does Dr. Kim define codependency? 

“I’m a big fan of the shorter the better: codependency is the unhealthy or excessive reliance on other people.” An excessive amount of reliance that release’s one’s ownership on their life where they abdicate responsibility to others. 

1. Does Dr. Kim have any experience of codependency himself? 

“Yes, as the son of Korean immigrants, I was in fear of wanting to do things to please my parents and do the right things. As the oldest son, I needed to be obedient, a high-achiever, and bring honor and prestige to the family. There was an unhealthy and excessive connection to my family members.” The pressure may not be explicitly from the parents--for Dr. Kim, he believed that “my parents gave up everything and every family member so [I put] a pressure to achieve [on myself].” 

1. On this podcast so far, we’ve talked about “helping” professionals: therapists, social workers, nurses and other fields like teaching BUT NOT THE MEDICAL FIELD. How has Dr. Kim witnessed “hallmark” codependent behaviors in medical students?

“I’ve seen it in several dimensions to the individual: number one is their motivation for school. What is the underlying motivation for pursuing an education, what helps them drive towards certain fields? Their motivation has been outsourced.” Dr. Kim describes the codependence he’s seen in students where they “do this for someone else.” I see people “make life decisions predominately for someone else.” Talk about codependent! 

Motivation for pursuing school AND the name of the school. For Dr. Kim, the students he works with become codependent on where they get accepted. He also witnesses their lack of boundaries between themselves and others. “They have value completely separate from their academic accolades and their perception is tied to their accolades and accomplishments.” 

With parents, Dr. Kim has also witnessed codependency in them as they interact with his medical school applicants. Dr. Kim sees parents take their perspectives and experiences and “inject that into their kids.”

1. How was it when Dr. Kim decided not to pursue medicine? “I was dismissed from my undergrad institution.” Wow! Dr. Kim shares about being on academic probation, admitting it to his family, and how it was “the only time I saw my father cry.” Oof! “That was one of the first moments when my codependent self underwent a transformation. I moved out, I started working, and discovered that self-reliance!” Dr. Kim shares how that was what he needed to take ownership of his education and his fate! Wow! 

“I realized that the big fear--and the reason why my father wanted me to pursue medicine was to have a stable income--when I shared my new objective in going into education, my mother and father were happy.” 

1. Does Dr. Kim sense there is a connection between codependency in medical students and burnout? If so, how?

“There’s definitely burnout. I see it as early as undergraduate. For students that go directly into college--there’s burnout.” Dr. Kim shares how, if people are codependent, they will follow the formula from undergrad to medical school but not “figure themselves out.” The most common connection between codependency and medical school: the burnout is often due to “a lack of help-seeking behaviors. They don’t ask for help!” 

1. What happens to students long-term when they base their self-esteem on external factors/people like good grades, letters of recommendation, and acceptance into medical school? And what if they don't get in?

“Emotional volatility.” There are high’s and low’s since they are basing themselves on others but “it’s not sustainable.” Dr. Kim describes what he has witnessed in those who are codependent and derive their self-worth and identity based upon external factors. He describes work by Carol Dweck on growth and fixed mindsets and how those impact mindset. This then leads to motivation so, when we are codependent on others, we tend to have “fixed” mindsets on ourselves, our abilities and our relationships. He then shares his observations seeing students compare themselves to others and how damaging it is. Dr. Kim encourages his students, and our listeners, on comparing ourselves TO OURSELVES instead of other people and compare our goals to our own goals.

“I get them to remind themselves the goal is not to get into a certain medical school--the goal is to be a pharmacist, be a doctor, be a nurse...what’s the difference between a Kia and an Audi?” 

1. How do you help the students you work with to focus more on what they want as opposed to what others want?

Spreadsheets! Helping them get grounded, realism, and find out their true motivations. 

As always, thank you for listening!

www.codependummy.com 

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

https://linktr.ee/codependummy 

• How and why do codependents lie, omit, or evade telling the truth in order to maintain others’ approval, attention, and affection?
• How do our efforts to “save face” really lead us behave in ugly behaviors?
• What’s the cost to being inauthentic, disingenuous, and “fake” to our relationships--with others and ourselves??? 

In this episode, Marissa describes our attempts as codependents to please others, protect or cover up for those we love, and protect ourselves BY LYING. She shares stories from her childhood and adolescence that taught her lying can help her maintain approval (i.e., love) from others and how she applied that to most situations in her life--at a cost. She concludes with questions you can ask yourself about your own dishonesty and truly discern whether you want to keep lying or start telling the truth. Thanks for listening! 

www.codependummy.com

@therapywithmarissa on IG 

Deets on this week’s episode:

Part I: Why do codependents lie?

In her book, Codependent No More, which is a classic for us codependents, Melody Beattie spells out codependent characteristics, including “poor communication,” including how codependents frequently:

• Try to say what they think will please people
• Lie to protect and cover up for people they love 
• Lie to protect themselves

Where did you learn to lie, baby girl? 

What comes to mind when you recall lying in your past? 

Like many children, I learned to lie to avoid getting into trouble at school, home, and with any authority figure. I also learned to lie to maintain a certain reputation, status, or perception by others as a good, responsible, and lovable girl. And to protect my parents and sisters. Not conscious but my actions indicated that was what I was after. 

An example of lying to protect and cover up for the people I loved: when I got lice.

Long story short: my mom got outed for not doing a good job checking my head for lice despite being a school nurse. Busted! 

Unintentionally, in that moment, she taught me a few things: omission is better than honesty, don’t admit mistakes, and lie to others to maintain your reputation. 

I believe that, in my codependency, I took these moments, internalized these rules, and then ran with them to an extreme in order to avoid abandonment.

Any memories you have of learning to lie? And for who?

Recap: we lie to please others, protect and cover for those we love, and to protect ourselves. 

Part II: How do our efforts to “save face” lead us to behave in ugly behaviors?

Saving face: Avoid humiliation or embarrassment, preserve dignity, as in Rather than fire him outright, they let him save face by accepting his resignation. The phrase, which uses face in the sense of "outward appearances,"

The main anecdote I want to focus on in this episode demonstrates a combination of Beattie’s traits: saying what will please others and lying to protect myself. 

Long story short: I drank on a trip in high school and lied about it. Some other students got caught while others, including myself, did not. I lied to my favorite teacher and omitted to my parents, sister, friends, and others about my actions. I may have looked “pretty” and favorable but I engaged in some ugly-ass behaviors. 

Part III: What’s the cost of being inauthentic to ourselves and others?

No matter what we do, lying or being honest, there is an emotional cost. Sometimes there is a physical cost. Or a spiritual cost. 

The cost of lying about drinking on this trip was the fact that I furthered my sense of aloneness atop my pedestal, I added distance between myself and my loved one’s, and I walked around with a target on my back. 

What price are you paying due to your inauthenticity, ingenuineness, and being “fake?” What behaviors are you engaging in to compensate for the cost? 

Conclusion: We are not entirely full of shit. We keep shit in to please others, protect and cover for those we love, and to protect ourselves. 

...but at a cost. And, I would encourage you to look at:

• If you are lying, omitting, or evading the truth, what are you underlying motives?
• If you are “saving face” but engaged in ugly behaviors, what is the cost to you and your relationships with yourselves and others?
• If you are being inauthentic and ingenuine, is the cost worth it?

By answering those questions, you can decide if you want to keep lying or omitting or discern, no, I want to be honest here. Truth is not a one-size-fits-all principle. 

Now, if you decide to lie, omit, or evade the truth solely to please, protect others, and yourself...eventually, you will be full of shit and that’s not sustainable. 

Your homework:

Like I eventually wrote and admitted my lie to my favorite teacher, I want you to write a letter to that person you want to come clean to. 

You don’t have to send it--just write it. If, after a week of reflection and meditation you want to send it, you can. If not, follow that discernment and let the writing be sufficient.

Marissa’s info:

www.codependummy.com

@therapywithmarissa on IG

www.therapywithmarissa.com

Thanks for listening!

• How do codependency and Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) relate? 
• How can our over-reliance on approval from others lead us to disapprove of our physical flaws?
• How do those with body dysmorphia develop codependent traits (pleasing, sacrifice, obedience) to their disorder?

In this episode, Marissa sits down with Rachel Koutnik, LCSW, to talk about the interconnection between codependency and Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Rachel shares with us her own definition of codependency, body dysmorphia, then opens up about her experiences struggling with both. Rachel describes how those with BDD often rely on others, sometimes becoming codependent, for feedback that they aren’t as ugly, disformed, or unattractive as they worry they are. We conclude with initial steps Rachel takes with her clients to help them combat their codependent and BDD.

About our guest: Rachel Koutnik, LCSW,  is a holistic therapist in private practice in Los Angeles, CA. She works with teens, adults and couples. Rachel integrates approaches that treat the mind, body and spirit and works with issues such as anxiety disorders, trauma, relationship issues, and self-compassion.

Rachel’s info:

www.rachelktherapy.com

Her offer: $80 off first session.Call 424-361-1367!

More deets from the episode:

1.       How does Rachel define codependency? “When I think of codependency, I think of the person that’s trying to be a caretaker, the person that puts the needs of someone else above their own, and, over time, they disappear. They get stuck in a cycle of giving rather than receiving.” Rachel expands and connects Body Dysmorphic Disorder: “when a person is controlled or manipulated by someone who is dependent on alcohol, a drug, etc.” Rachel describes how individuals with BDD can be manipulated by their disorder and end up controlled. 
2.       Can Rachel please share some codependent experiences from her own life? “I myself have a diagnosis of BDD and have been struggling with it for 20 years now. When I didn’t know I had BDD, I was in a totally codependent relationship with my mother.” Rachel shares how, in that relationship, she was more dependent and her mother was codependent and enabling her illness. Rachel went to multiple doctors, purchased products, underwent procedures, and on and on. Her mother, in her own way, enabled and paid for it all. Unfortunately, no matter what Rachel and her mother did, she was never content with the changes she got for her body. Rachel opens up about codependency in her dating and intimate relationships where she was very “giving” to partners. “I would try to appear high-functioning and be very pleasing to what they wanted from me.” 

Marissa asks Rachel how, looking back, she would have described those relationships at the time. Rachel states “normal.” She acknowledges how she learned best from her upbringing how to interact with others and then happened to repeat that in her romantic relationships via codependent behaviors. 

1.       What is Body Dysmorphic Disorder? What contributes to its development? “When you have a minor flaw, or a perceived flaw, and you develop obsessions and compulsions to cope with anxiety about the flaw.” Rachel gives multiple examples of asking others for their feedback on the flaw, mirror-checking, touching the flaw, taking hours to get ready in the morning, wearing items to cover the flaw, undergoing procedures to address their flaw, and become “really hyper-focused” on the flaw that they perceive as a deformity. 

Rachel aids us by describing BDD on a spectrum where, at one extreme, an individual can be in “a delusion” about their flaw, and, at the other extreme, have some worry about a particular flaw but are not deluded by it. 

Marissa asks about contributing factors. “Attachment struggles with their primary caregivers.” Rachel describes how there is a disconnect between the individual and their primary caregiver who was not there for them emotionally in the way they needed them. Narcissistic parents, alcoholic parents, abuse, etc. and the lack of attachment “gets focused inward.” Rachel helps us by sharing about what attachment issues are and how they lead to “distrust and the world seems scary...our emotions seem really big.” 

1.       How are BDD and codependency interrelated? How are they not related?

“A lot of times the person with BDD is really insecure. There’s shame, insecurity, and a desire to be wanted, liked, loved, etc.” Rachel shares how an individual with BDD can shift their focus in: how can I be lovable? Then they overcompensate and put their partners above themselves. 

Rachel differentiates BDD and codependency since, we all have been insulted/teased/bullied, but someone who develops BDD “internalizes that.” Yes, another person is involved since they pointed out a physical flaw, but those with BDD “take it and run with it” by internalizing and becoming hyper-focused on the physical flaw that was pointed out. 

Rachel adds how “people with BDD can almost be in a codependent relationship with their BDD.” She shares how, instead of trying to please, appease, and tend to another person, an individual with BDD can “prioritize” the needs of BDD by constantly being stuck in their obsessions and compulsions. They place the needs of their BDD over their own needs or the needs of others. Rachel describes her BDD as “an abusive partner that lives inside of herself.” 

1.       What strategies help people with BDD manifest healthier relationships? “You have to know you have BDD.” Rachel discusses ways that individuals can determine if they have BDD and the severity of their symptoms. Next, treatment involves therapy - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy - in conjunction with exposure and psychiatry. With this combination, Rachel describes how individuals with BDD are empowered to really question their thoughts, beliefs, and responses to those thoughts. She helps her clients question their assumptions, endure exposures, combat their negative thinking, etc. so they can break free from the BDD.

Rachel adds about the need for self-compassion in healing from BDD. She emphasizes how, due to the intense self-hatred that often comes with BDD, she integrates self-compassion via mindfulness, self-kindness, and common humanity. By practicing self-compassion, she witnesses her clients feeling better and sensing how they deserve it! This breeds more self-confidence and empowerment thanks to being kinder to themselves. 

Rachel differentiates self-compassion - what do I need to feel safe, soothed, to take care of myself right now - and mindfulness - what am I aware of and what do I see? 

1.       How does Rachel’s BDD support group help adults struggling with BDD and codependency?

“Biggest thing is BDD is something people struggle with alone. The biggest part of healing is getting out of isolation and not being alone.” Rachel’s group addresses that by providing individuals with a group to combat their disorder with the help of herself as the leader and others as peers with BDD. “Being seen is an exposure and sharing about what it is you’re going through, receiving feedback from others, and clinical feedback from me” is the unique recipe that Rachel offers to help her members. Rachel allows time for members to talk about their wins, struggles, and get the support from others. 

“Different people are in different places in their healing.” Rachel describes how group members help others get out of toxic relationships, develop their self-worth, and self-belief since they encourage each other without fostering codependency in the group format. 

Thanks for listening!

www.codependummy.com

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

How do codependency and queerness relate?

How do experiences of marginalization for queer folk contribute to codependent behaviors?

How can codependency compound “coming out” to others?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Shawny Sena, LMFT, a therapist who works exclusively with the LGBTQIA Community, all about how codependency and queerness relate (and how they don’t relate). Shawny shares with us about codependency in families of origin versus families of choice (and spells out exactly what those two terms mean in the queer community). Marissa asks Shawny about how experiences of being marginalized or experiencing homo- or transphobia may influence codependent behaviors. You’ll also hear ways that Shawny encourages individualization with her clients.

Thanks for listening! 

About this episode’s guest:

Shawny Sena, LMFT, is a therapist in Minneapolis, MN. She works exclusively with the LGBTQIA community and specializes in kids, teens, and adults: old souls of all ages who need to learn to play again. 

Shawny’s information:

www.shawnysena.com 

More deets on this episode:

Question one: How does Shawny define codependency? Three phrases: I’m okay, if we’re okay. We’re okay if you’re okay. And I’ll do anything to make sure you’re okay. Shawny tells us how she has a familiar relationship with codependency due to “life.”

Question two: Can Shawny share with us aspects of codependency in her own life? A few examples:

• Shawny and her spouse were about to watch a movie. She sees one come up and says “Let’s watch that one” and then they got stuck in a “let’s watch what you want to watch.” Shawny reveals how it took her actual, deliberate force to select the movie she wanted. 
• Shawny discusses being sick at work and fearing being perceived as a “faker.” Then she would convince herself “maybe I am faking it...maybe their perception of me is the real one and my perception of me is false.”
• Shawny shares how, in her pre-coming-out days, she felt guilty about pursuing those she was interested in romantically. She would assume how they would feel if she did try to date them. 

Question three: What is cis-gender? Shawny educates us on how that is “anyone who isn’t trans.” Our perceived gender aligns with the gender that was assigned to use at birth. 

Question four: How do codependency and queerness interrelate? “They interrelate a lot. Anytime you have an experience where you have a marginalized identity, the message is: you should adapt, shift, change something about yourself to fit into with us.” With sexuality and gender, Shawny describes how “there is a feeling that ‘you’re different and you need to turn down your difference to be loved.’” 

Question five: What are families-of-origin versus chosen families?

Family-of-origin are the family that you grew up with--the people who told us how to be in the world and brought us up. Chosen families are the families that you “find usually in adulthood or on your way to adulthood who fit who you are and who feel good to you.” 

Question six: How does codependency impact family-of-origin and chosen families? Within family-of-origin, there are implicit and explicit rules or expectations. For example, “We’re not going to tell grandma that your trans.” Shawny describes how the solution is: you hide so grandma doesn’t get upset or confused. TURNING OURSELVES DOWN. Implicit example: when a sibling brings a heterosexual and cisgender partner, they are treated like one of us versus my homosexual and transgender partner is treated “politely but different.”

Question seven: How do experiences with transphobia, homophobia, and marginalization influence codependency?

Shawny shares about a cultural message that states “your desire is dangerous.” Codependency makes us believe what others say about us in order to stay safe. 

Question eight: How can codependency lead a queer individual to not come out due to fear of upsetting, distressing, or hurting their families, friends, etc.? Shawny describes how, since queer folk “turn themselves down so much,” they fear coming out and don’t do it because they want to keep things calm. Shawny describes the concept of “coming in” and how, even if a queer individual is not “out” to everyone, they can still be authentic to themselves. 

Question nine: What are Shawny’s initial steps when she notices codependency in her queer clients? Shawny mostly works with children and she discusses how her aim, at times is, “codependency prevention like the dentist.” Shawny shares how she encourages them to “be the boss,” invites disagreement, and other techniques to model interdependent behavior. Shawny recalls times when her clients will worry about being “too much” for her in therapy and how she responds by notifying them that she’s responsible for herself and taking care of herself. 

Question ten: How would she re-write her codependency summary from the beginning of the episode? “We’re okay if we’re okay--it’s both of us. I’m okay if I’m okay. I trust that we can figure out how to be okay together.”

Thanks for listening!

www.codependummy.com

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

How can codependency contribute to financial anxiety?

What can we do if we have poor boundaries around lending, spending, and giving money to others, especially family?

Why our need-to-please can lead us to poor financial decisions and what we can do to stop being such dummies with money--listen now!

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, LMSW about codependency, money shame, and financial anxiety. Lindsay discusses ways how our codependency can lead to a) poor boundaries around money, b) difficulty bringing up money with others due to a fear of disapproval, and c) financial anxiety when it comes to spending on ourselves (since we are not allowed to!). Lindsay shares her experiences working with clients on their financial issues and common themes she sees with those struggling to set limits, especially with codependent family relations. 

Thanks for listening! 

About this episode’s guest: 

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin is a biracial financial therapist, speaker, and Plutus-nominated author. In her therapy practice, she uses shame-free financial therapy to help people get their minds and money in balance. Additionally, she's expanded her services to help therapists with their money mindset, niching, and authentic marketing. She lives with her partner and their dog in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Lindsay’s information:

www.mindmoneybalance.com

Instagram @MindMoneyBalance

Twitter @MindMNYBalance

Free quiz on Financial Archetypes: www.mindmoneybalance.com/podcast

More deets on this episode:

Question one: What is financial therapy? According to Lindsay, it’s aim is to help clients “cultivate a healthy relationship with money.” Financial therapy is a more nuanced way to look at money that elicits the feelings and emotions that come up around money. 

Question two: How did Lindsay come to be a financial therapist? “I had an interest in money because in my first job post-grad school was paid less than I made waitressing.” Say what? Lindsay discusses her endeavors to find out about money, personal finance “but a lot of it was shame-based.” She wanted to address money without shaming and blaming people which led her to her practice focusing on financial therapy. 

Question three: How has Lindsay seen codependency interwoven with money issues? “It’s all over the place!” Lindsay most sees it in adult-child relationships as well as between adult children: siblings. For example, a parent who pays their child’s rent or a sibling who lends money to their financially irresponsible sibling. 

Question four: Scenario--if I’m codependent with my mom, and she supplements my rent, why would I want her to stop doing that? “It’s like a failure-to-launch issue. It’s great your parents supplement your rent, but will that last forever?” Lindsay poses questions about how sustainable that is to be codependent on others financially...which it’s not! “That money comes with strings attached.” Oh, truth!

Question five: How do we name “codependent” financial behavior for what it is? “I start where my client’s at.” Lindsay asks them how they feel about the codependent behaviors: “Is this a problem for you?” If it isn’t, she doesn’t address it. If they identify it as a problem, then she does help them name the “codedendent” behaviors around money for what it is (in place of “generosity”).

Question six: How do we start to create boundaries surrounding our codependent behaviors? “It depends on the culture and context.” Lindsay describes all the timelines, cultural norms, and expectations we have that contribute to what financial independence looks like for every individual. “You really can say no to taking money from your parents.”

Question seven: When her clients start to build a boundary, what is it like for Lindsay to witness their empowerment? “We do feel infantilized when we are supported financially and I hear a lot of language like ‘I finally feel like an adult,’ or ‘We finally feel like grown-ups!’” Holding the boundary is terrifying but, over time, it becomes more and more powerful. There is backlash but, most of the time, Lindsay’s clients are thrilled to create and maintain their boundaries around money. 

Question eight: How do we navigate codependency and money in adult-sibling relationships? “It’s often a trauma response from when the siblings depended on themselves from childhood...it can be terrifying to individuate from an adult sibling.” Lindsay normalizes their dependency and also the difficulty in setting boundaries as an adult. Lindsay helps them create a “tiered approach” where they start with lending $300 then go down to $200 then to $100 and so on. 

Question nine: What are the costs to remaining financially codependent with family? “The person who gets cut-off blames someone else and it gets misplaced. That can create a ton of tension.” Lindsay aids her clients in making the focus on YOU. “I love you, I’ll be there for you, and it’s important for me not to fund you financially so you can be an adult too.” Lindsay talks more about how resentment builds since “we hope this is the last time we give” to another...but it’s never the last time.

Question ten: What about gift giving and spending to please others? “That comes up when gifts typically were in place of emotional support in childhood.” Lindsay emphasizes how, again, this pattern leads to “strings attached.” 

Question eleven: How do codependency and financial anxiety connect? “They can exist indepdent of one another but also overlap. Financial anxiety means experiencing symptoms of anxiety related to money.” Lindsay discusses common triggers and how we can assess which is which. Marissa emphasizes how “if we have others in mind, then it’s likely codependent.”

Question twelve: How has Lindsay witnessed codependency in therapists and their finances? “Every single one of my therapist-clients, when we talk about raising fees, they worry their clients will be mad at them.” Lindsay helps them look at the logic and emotion to empower them to make positive changes with their finances!

Link to Linday’s quiz on Financial Archetypes: www.mindmoneybalance.com/podcast

www.codependummy.com

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

Do teachers tend to have codependent tendencies?

How does Lani use the “Self Concept Model” to help her coaching clients become more independent?

How can we stop seeking validation from the good behavior of others if our job technically depends on that?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Lani Kim, Life Coach, about codependency in educators. Lani herself was a teacher for years and witnessed a norm where she and colleagues depended on their students performance, staff approval, and administrative acknowledgement in order to feel good about themselves and their work. You’ll hear Lani share about her own experiences with codependency in her family, how she came to be a life coach, and how she helps empower her clients to stop seeking self-worth through others via the “Self-Concept Model” (tune in to find out what that’s all about!)

Thanks for listening! 

About this episode’s guest: 

Lani Kim is a Life Coach of Lani Kim Coaching, where she helps individuals through the Self Concept Model. Lani is a left handed woman trying to survive in a right handed world. After some self care led her to work with a life coach, Lani was hooked. She knew she had found her calling. As the saying goes, only left handeds are in their right minds, so she is a rare commodity.

Lani’s information:

https://www.instagram.com/thrivinglifecoach/ 

https://www.facebook.com/lanikim.lifecoach/

Free workshop → https://lanikim.groovepages.com/increasing-self-awareness/

More deets on this episode:

First Question: How does Lani define codependency?

Lani's textbook definition: "Partnership of two people who abdicate responsibility for their emotions to their partner." Abdicate--oOoOoOoOo.

Lani expands and describes how "it takes two to tango" so it is really about the partnership of two people that makes it codependent.

Second Question: Does Lani have any memories/experiences in her past where she was codependent?

"Definitely." Lani shares about the many codependent relationships she had, however, that she was not aware of. Lani reveals that she was "so sensitive to my parents feelings and always trying to fill the gap of whatever their expectation was." Wow!

Lani discusses codependency with her parents and then particularly with her mother after her parents divorce. She tells us about moments when she hid stories from her mother about her father and also felt angry at her father "because I embodied my mom's feelings." 

Like many of us, Lani acknowledges how much her codependency with her mother impacted her marriage, children, and other significant relationships in her life. "And it's still a work in progress" between her and her mother. 

Third Question: What codependent behaviors did Lani witness as a teacher?

"The way I think about teachers is like a bowl of spaghetti." Spaghetti? Say what? 

"Being a teacher, the weight of the decisions you make and your conduct is so external and controlled by so many things." Damn! Lani preaches truth about the dependency that can be embedded in teachers depending on how they define their success and worth as professionals. 

Lani provides examples of all the levels of relationships teachers depend on: students, parents, teaching aids, administration, government, etc. 

"Teachers feel like this burden of a Martyr Syndrome: 'I have to do this and I have to do that and I have to do this...'"

Fourth Question: How does Lani help her coaching clients address codependent behavior?

"The tool and process that is most powerful: evaluation. That is a big component of coaching." Lani details how she helps client take their ideas, get them down to something measurable, and then take action to promote progress. "What's your vision for your students; what's your vision for yourself?" and get it down to how you want to FEEL. 

Fifth Question: With her clients, how has she seen codependency sabotage their progress?

"People think that--once they have coaching--they believe that this will solve their life and, when they are done, life is going to be so awesome!" She advises her clients to have realistic expectations in order to avoid disappointment and over-relying on her! 

Lani shares the Self-Concept Model: 1) self-awareness; 2) self-efficacy; 3) self-esteem; 4) self-integrity; and 5) self-confidence. She then emphasizes how her clients will sabotage their progress due to their poor, negative, disempowered MINDSET. "They stall if they aren't honest...especially with themselves."

Sixth Question: Has Lani dealt with coaching clients becoming codependent on her? 

"I can start to see it sometimes." Lani describes her efforts in order to avoid that so she doesn't create that codependency with them. "This is their journey." It's not she who is doing the work--it's them and she makes it clear it is because of them. 

Lani recalls talking with new clients who consume books, conferences, and other personal development products and "they think once they come to a one-on-one coaching atmosphere...they will feel on fire and that's their expectation." I highlight how, in those calls, she senses how they want to abdicate responsibility for their emotions and Lani is able to refuse them thanks to the work she has done. 

Seventh Question: Who is life coaching for?

"Do you have a vision for yourself and your life? If you don't, life coaching may be for you." Lani emphasizes how there is a life coach for every type of person. "Do you have defined goals? Do you have measures for how you want to feel? Life coaching may be for you." If something is debilitating a coaching client, Lani explains how she and other coaches work alongside a therapist to address mental health, trauma, and other psychological concerns.

"Stepping into Your Future Self" is one of the most exciting activities that Lani does with her work that she LOVES. She helps client step into the person they want to be and "spending time in their head." Coaching helps individuals connect current self and future self--WOW! 

Lani describes how she loves coaching since she gets to help others "create desire." We get places via will-power, motivation, and desire. Lani connects people with desire since it's the most effective and long-lasting. 

-->Link to Lani's workshop: https://lanikim.groovepages.com/increasing-self-awareness/

www.codependummy.com

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

Welcome everyone to The Codependummy Podcast - 30-Day Self-Validation Challenge. UNSCRIPTED, UNEDITED, UNCODEPENDENT!

I'm here with Nathan, our listener who was on The Codependummy Dilemma on June 21 and we are check in on how he did with his 30-day self-validation challenge. If you have no idea what I am talking about, please give the episode that aired on June 21 a listen. In the episode, I assigned Nathan homework to have a nightly call with himself to report on his day and validate himself since that’s what he craved so much in a previous relationship. Codependummy to codependiamond behavior, right???

Hear Nathan reflect on the following questions:

1. How did it go to the first night with the challenge?
2. Was he able to do it everyday?
3. What were his expectations versus reality of having a nightly call with himself to validate himself?
4. What will this look like moving forward for him?
5. What does he want to tell the listener who listened, maybe started or didn’t at all, about practicing self-validation?

I also share about my own experience with the challenge and plan to continue with a nightly self-validation call with myself. 

Are you doing it? Join us! I'll check in with Nathan at the 60-day mark to see how he's feeling, how it's going, and his progress. Again, join us! Email [email protected] to share your progress or volunteer to come on The Codependummy Dilemma like Nathan did. 

This is the third installment of the new segment! 

How come codependents are always trying to be “the favorite?”

How does Olivia Rodrigo’s song, “Favorite Crime,” encapsulate so many aspects of codependency?

How can you put a stop to resonating with the saddest and thirstiest love songs?

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to follow me on instagram @therapywithmarissa

“Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo: https://open.spotify.com/track/5JCoSi02qi3jJeHdZXMmR8?si=8af6da99ae424658

Deets on the episode:

Geez Louise, this has been the never-ending-new-segment, right? 

This week, I conclude our discussion of Olivia Rodrigo’s song, “Favorite Crime,” by breaking it down, applying it to a past relationship, and helping you stop resonating so much with codependent-laden songs like this.

We are using my working definition of codependency “a way of being where one prioritizes the thoughts, feelings, and needs of others in an unconscious attempt to fulfill their own thoughts, feelings, and needs.” I also tie in the psychological phenomena “compulsion to repeat,” which is a term coined by Freud that suggests we have a tendency to expose ourselves again and again (compulsion) to a distressing or painful situation, although we have forgotten the original situation of the compulsion. 

Please note: If something went down when you were little, whether you remember it or not, it’s likely still affecting you today. If you keep finding yourself in the same situations over and over, especially in your romantic, professional, and social relationships, it’s likely to be related to a painful and traumatic situation in your past. 

Second to last lyric: Well, I hope I was your favorite crime

After an on-again-off-again six month relationship with Ex-boyfriend, I finally was chosen as his favorite (a.k.a, his favorite crime). Not the ex-girlfriend who had been interacting with him for the past two months--he was choosing me. Yes! 

This was just what my codependummy heart had been wanting the whole time we had dated. 

...But, that compulsion to repeat is real. Unconsciously, I found a guy who put me in a situation that reminded me of what had been familiar about love throughout my childhood: I was being compared to another girl. I was in competition for attention, affection, and approval with another girl. And, like I felt like I had before, I found someone who wouldn’t choose me like I hadn’t been chosen before. 

Last lyric: 'Cause baby, you were mine

36-hours later, he called to tell me he had changed his mind: he chose his ex-girlfriend. 

I had put his feelings, wants, and needs above my own and I was unconsciously hoping (and maybe sometimes semi-consciously) hoping that, by doing that, I’d fulfill my own feelings, wants, and needs for love. 

‘Cause baby, you were mine (favorite crime). I picked him. Over and over and over again, despite all the ups and downs, I had picked him.

*The end of the analysis of Olivia Rodrigo’s song. Phew!*

So, how can we stop resonating with these songs? How can we stop singing to them like they are anthems? 

You need to go to the source. 

What’s familiar about this song in your past? 

To overcome the compulsion to repeat, meaning to overcome our codependency, we have to find out where it truly comes from. 

I’m not Olivia Rodrigo’s therapist. BUT, I wonder, if I sat her down and took her history, I would find that the lyrics she sings about boys may also be applied to significant relationships in her past (e.g., her mom and dad).

If we are stuck in repetition compulsion, then who are we actually singing about with these songs? 

For me, the lyrics could easily be as follows:

All the things I did--mom and dad-- just so I could call you mine.

I hope I was your favorite (daughter, person, human, baby, girl). 

Your homework is to a) identify your favorite sad, codependent song; b) email me what it is so I can possibly unpack it here on the podcast at [email protected] and c) listen to it and ask yourself: what about this song, the lyrics, and the emotions expressed remind me of something from my past? 

Helpful links:

“Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo: https://open.spotify.com/track/5JCoSi02qi3jJeHdZXMmR8?si=8af6da99ae424658

www.codependummy.com 

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28  

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

***Trying out a new title for this segment--whaddya think?***

How codependent could Marissa get in her relationship with an ex-boyfriend?

How does Olivia Rodrigo’s song, “Favorite Crime,” provide the quintessential experience of a codependummy in an intimate relationship?

How can we put a stop to resonating with the saddest and thirstiest love songs?

Welcome to The Codependummy Anthem #1: Part II, where I will continue with the new segment introduced last week that involves me breaking down a song that is quintessentially codependent. In this week’s episode, I add to my discussion of “Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo (see Part I if you’re late to the party). I’m taking the lyrics and applying them to my saddest, thirstiest, and most codependent intimate relationship I had in my early 20s. I’ll discuss ways I related to the lyrics, how I was reinforced by others and society to stay in the relationship, and what you can start to do to stop resonating so much with these dang codependent songs!

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to follow me on instagram @therapywithmarissa

Deets on the episode:

Welcome The Codependummy Anthem #1: Part II. I asked for your votes and my twin sister is the only one who voted and she suggested Codependummy Anthem--what are your thoughts? Feel free to share your feedback. In this new segment, which I will incorporate into the rotation of episode topics (solocasts, interviews, codependummy dilemma), I pick a song that  resonates with aspects of codependency; second, I will take said song and break it down and it’s quintessential codependent-ness; and third, I will try and find ways to help you stop resonating so much with this song since you aren’t being a codendummy but a codependiamond. 

In last week and this week’s episode, I am analyzing “Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo.

If you want to email in some of your sad, codependent secrets, please do at [email protected]. 

Are you doing the self-validation challenge? Listen to the episode that aired June 21 for deets. 

“Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo. I’ll put a link to the song in the show notes. https://open.spotify.com/track/5JCoSi02qi3jJeHdZXMmR8?si=8af6da99ae424658

I don’t have permission to play it so you will have to give it a listen now or after the episode. 

Situation: the 14-month dating relationship I had at 21. Last week, I discussed the first four-ish months. This episode I will be discussing the next two--just the next two since the entire relationship was brutal but I’m keeping it simple.

Context: I’m going to continue to interweave the psychological phenomena “compulsion to repeat” or “repetition compulsion.” If you keep finding yourself in the same situation at work, in your relationship, with friends, what trauma may you be trying to “master?”

Let’s break the lyrics down and apply them to the relationship in a timeline: 

“And now every time a siren sounds, I wonder if you’re around ‘cause you know I’d do it all again.” 

The relationship got so bad that I needed to start implementing some serious boundaries. But, even after I did, I yearned for him to break them. Every time a “siren” sounded, I wished it was him: every time my phone pinged, I hoped it was him. Every time I’d log onto facebook, I’d see if he had updated his profile. When my roommates and I had our annual Friendsgiving the next week or so, I wished and hoped that he’d show up in a romantic gesture and pledge his undying love for me. I checked my phone constantly. I thought about him constantly. I’d wonder if he was around constantly. 

Deep down, despite all the BS of the relationship--he and I both knew: I would do it all again. 

“Look what we became.” 

Me sobbing on the floor of my tiny room on the cliff overlooking the ocean while 30 people are outside, including my best friend, roommates, and cute/single guys, and I’m missing a boy who never fully committed to me despite all the things I did those first 3-4 months of the relationship. 

Just the saddest, thirstiest, down, blue, depressed, lonely girl in the world feeling. 

What we became? Super dysfunctional. Boundary violators. Addicts. Dependents. Codependent. Having sex while we are not committed to each other, while he’s still in contact with his ex-girlfriend trying to decide between her and me, and violating my boundary that I established thanks to my letter being completely ignored by him and I.. 

Compulsion to repeat: the tendency of an individual to expose herself again and again to a distressing or painful situation, although she has forgotten of origins of the compulsion. To overcome, it involves an effort to break the cycle of repetition by helping her become conscious of it, process the original trauma, so she doesn’t have to keep doing the same thing over and over again. 

More and final analyzing of Olivia’s song next week! 

www.codependummy.com 

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28  

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com