The Codependummy Podcast

How can we rein in our codependency and use it to our benefit?

How can we use our ability to attune to others when setting boundaries?

What will happen if we keep prioritizing others while neglecting ourselves? 

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Nick Bognar, LMFT about how aspects of codependency can be beneficial...but when used with intent, awareness, and precaution. Nick suggests ways to navigate having difficult conversations, setting boundaries, and expands on his observations of codependency in men. He gives his "three rules" for codependents to follow when confronting others and leaves us with some great strategies to bolster our ability to communicate our needs.

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com

Meet Nick Bognar, a psychotherapist in Pasadena, CA. His specialties are men’s issues and codependency. Nick’s favorite thing is to help people learn how to say the word “no” without breaking a sweat. 

Nick's information:

www.nickbognartherapy.com

@nickbognarmft

More deets on this week’s episode:

I kick things off with asking about Nick's specialty: learning how to say "no" without breaking a sweat! Yass! Nick tells us about himself and his background, including difficulties in saying the word "no." Thanks to his attendance in therapy, he learned how to set boundaries and has endeavored to help others, especially men, to do the same. 

Next question: what led Nick to specialize in codependency? Nick shares his observation that many therapists have codependency in them (including himself which he started to recognize once he entered the field). Nick describes how, as individuals, therapists require a lot of traits that are very similar to codependency: therapists are caring for other people, looking out for other's responses before their own, attuning to others, and so on. This is wonderful...unless, like Nick says, this is the only thing you are paying attention to while neglecting yourself. Thanks to him realizing this in his own behavior, he was able to correct it and now helps others do the same. 

Nick and I both reflect on the benefits of their codependency and Nick proposes how, at times, it can be a "super power." But, like every super power, we have to know when to turn it off and on (cue Peter Parker's grandpa). 

Next question: how does Nick define codependency? "I define it as: taking care of other people until it kills you." Nick describes how codependency can lead to self-neglect and the results are dire: poor self-care, poor relationships, and low self-worth that can eventually kill us. This is why treating it as soon as possible is so necessary, dear listener. 

Next question: why is it so hard for codependents to make the obvious choice? Nick discusses how "it makes sense" when codependents struggle to set boundaries, put their needs first, and say "no." The ability to navigate these situations for codependents isn't easy and Nick emphasizes the need to go to therapy in order to get the compassionate guidance to work through the dilemmas that codependents often face. 

Next question: what is so hard about setting boundaries? Nick describes how "great" it is to not set boundaries: others are emotionally intimate with you, they rely on you, they like being around you. "If I'm not taking my boss's call at 2am in the morning, then who am I?" Nick describes how codependents form an identity as being so reliable and it's hard to set boundaries since that's everything they have known. 

Next question: what are some simple rules Nick has for navigating difficult conversations to set boundaries? Three rules: don't attack, don't defend, tell the truth. And what if we are met with all three? Nick gives examples of how codependents can withstand others negative reaction in order to empower ourselves. "It always has to come back to me," ultimately is what Nick emphasizes. 

We end with a discussion about codependency in men. I ask Nick to share about when and where codependency comes up in men. "Men will break their backs and then neglect themselves." This then leads them to build that codependent resentment and anger, have temper tantrums, drink, f*ck, smoke, etc. Then they have two problems: codependency and a possible addiction. Nick helps them realize their patterns, create boundaries, and provide them with options they didn't know they had before therapy.

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28 

Find me on Tiktok, Twitter, and Instagram at @codependummy

Want to work with me? Check out www.therapywithmarissa.com or @therapywithmarissa on IG

Again, thanks for listening!

Sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com. It’s a 10-part course filled with wisdom, ways, and writing prompts to help you start your transformation from being a codependummy to a codependiamond!

Codependent With Your Therapist

How can we become codependent on our therapist?

How can our therapist become codependent on us???

What to be mindful of to avoid caretaking for your therapist OR avoid being caretaken by your therapist?

Listen to hear me talk through two situations from my past where I was codependent with a former therapist...and another one who was codependent with me! What does codependency look like in the therapy room? What are the signs that you are taking care of your therapist or they are taking care of you? Yes, it’s okay to be thoughtful, accepting, and encouraging...but when do we cross the line and enter a codependent relationship with a licensed professional? Tune in to hear the answers! 

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com

In this week's episode: 

Marissa starts with Melody Beattie’s definition of codependency: one who has let another person’s behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person’s behavior. The other person could be a child, adult, lover, spouse, sibling, parent, friend, etc. They could be an alcoholic, an addict, mentally or physically ill, normal with occasional sad feeling, etc.

Marissa then describes one characteristic of codependency: caretaking. What does caretaking even mean? Caretaking: look after (people or animals). Ok, then what does caretaker mean? a person who gives physical or emotional care to someone (such as a child, an old person, or someone who is sick). 

Alright, working from there, let’s hear how Marissa either was the caretaker for her therapist: 

At the age of 20, Marissa started seeing a middle-aged, white, balding, male therapist. How did she begin to become obsessed with controlling his behavior? She shares how she was not literally trying to control ger therapist 24/7. She was just trying to control how he perceived her that hour they met and during the moments during the week if and when he thought of her. Again, le’ts look at the dictionary: what does controlling and obsessing mean? 

Controlling: determining the behavior of; supervising the running of.

Obsessed: be preoccupied with or constantly worrying about something.

So simple! As codependents, we are worried and preoccupied about determining the behavior of others around us. 

What this meant in therapy: Marissa was not 100% honest with him and hid her biggest issues, saddest moments, and most pathetic behaviors. 

Quintessential example of her codependency with this therapist: she bought him a Thank You card to apologize for her slow progress (and tried to convey to him “Don’t give up on me.”). 

Girl, this is classic codependency: Marissa is literally caretaking her therapist’s feelings in order to ensure he’s not disappointed or abandons her. Bad sign that she wrote the card and bad sign that her therapist ended up putting it on his desk as a token! That therapist should have asked Marissa why TF she wrote an apologetic card, investigated her guilt, and tried to help her avoid keeping things from him...since it wasn’t helping her to be as codependent with him as she was outside of therapy. 

Questions to ask yourself: do you hesitate to be honest with your therapist, do you worry about disappointing them, have you written a “Thank You and Sorry-I’m-not-getting-better card?” DON’T! 

Marissa then proceeds to share about a second experience where she was caretaken by her therapist. In her late 20s, Marissa started working with a therapist due to all the changes she was going through in her life: marriage, new house, moving out of her parents, newly licensed, looking for a new job, etc. 

One area of her codependency that her therapist really helped me with was with finances. Thanks to help from her therapist, Marissa started to recognize how codependent she was with her parents via money. 

She started to “play big and take up space” financially and pay for herself: big purchases and small. Her parents thought it was odd but went along with it. THEN, Marissa’s dog died, she had a dental emergency that cost $3K, and her car was broken into and her tablet got stolen. Yikes! 

Being a “grown up” and becoming more financially independent was starting to suck. Marissa shares how she cried in therapy after she realized her insurance was also changing and she would no longer be able to afford seeing her therapist. Instead of problem-solving, her therapist swooped in--just like her mom and dad did--and gave her a HUGE discount for therapy. 

What’s the communication here when people caretake for us? “I don’t think you can do it." Within a few weeks, Marissa was able to figure it out and asked to start paying her therapist her full fee. Her therapist ended up resisting the proposal, therapy fell apart, and Marissa found another therapist...who charged way more and has figured out how to make it work! 

We wrap up with questions to ask yourself to avoid being codependent with your therapist. Be sure to share your experience with Marissa! 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com 

https://linktr.ee/codependummy  

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28  

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com

How do I practice self-care while prioritizing my relationships with others? 

OR REALLY--how do I stop prioritizing others so much that I neglect my self-care when I'm codependent???

How do you say “no” to others in order to say “yes” to yourself?

Listen in to hear me walk through an aspect of MB’s life where she’s being a little codependummy and needed help on how to act like a codependiamond: SELF-CARE. “How do I prioritize self-care while being in relationships with others?” What’s a codependummy to do?

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com

More deets on this week’s episode:

Gird your loins, sis. We start with getting to know listener MB better by having her share about how she was raised, reinforced, and rewarded to put the needs of others above her own by being the eldest daughter and granddaughter in her family. "Be the example," they said--and did MB listen! She recalls always listening and putting a lot of pressure on herself to be a "good girl." The tears start to flow as MB recalls how she always did her chores, never fought with her siblings or cousins, and was taught not to question what she was being asked to do. 

Fast forward, Marissa asks how that now contributes to MB being exhausted, exasperated, and enveloped in shit relationships: "that's pretty much what I was doing," MB recalls. She was married and "pretended nothing was wrong" in their relationship despite it being complete and total shit! MB recalls being the hostess and staying busy in order to distract herself from her relationship issues. MB recounts how she then entered into another unhealthy relationship after her divorce and, even today, she is aware that she has a pattern where she "feels overwhelmed and then I leave." MB adds more details on how she would go from "staying in my room all day" or "filling up my days." We codependents are full of extremes, right?

Next, we tackle MB's codependummy dilemma: "I want to talk about my weight." MB opens up about her self-care and how she has seasons where she will eat right, exercise, and take care of herself THEN she self-sabotages, overeats, and gains weight. MB says "I want to feel better about myself. I want to be happy with the way that I am but healthier." Marissa works with MB on the actual dilemma, which isn't about her weight--it's about her contentment with herself and her ability to prioritize herself over others. 

MB reflects on when her self-care was most ideal: no surprise, it was when she was SINGLE! What is it about us codependents and our inability to self-care when we are in a relationship. As we narrow more and more, "How do I prioritize self-care while in relationships with others?" MB acknowledges how, if and when she is in a romantic relationship, her self-care is non-existent. MB suggests: schedule! 

MB reflects on how her schedule as a little girl really helped her to make time for her priorities. Marissa and MB explore her history with schedules and how she can start to apply that to her current dilemma. MB adds how she was able to repeat that as an adult when she got divorced and prioritized self-care "because I didn't have any distractions." How, oh how, can MB start to create her own distractions in her life today?

What are your current distractions, MB? Well, MB shares how she takes care of her boyfriend's child, works all day, picks up her boyfriend's child, tries to walk the dog, makes dinner, and goes to do her side job as a plumber. Oh, and she tries to socialize once or twice a month. "The nights fill up" so she is not able to exercise, write, or journal like she wants to. 

What would your self-care entail ideally, MB? MB shares a simple ideal: something towards my physical health, something towards my mental health, time for my friends, and time for me. Marissa helps MB break it down: 30 minutes of walking, 40 minutes of journaling/reading, and a few hangouts with her friends a week. But she has to agree to stop helping people...with her plumbing skills! She's not a plumber and has to let go of being one for everybody else. But will she be able to say "no" to those calls and texts??? MB shares how difficult it will be for her but she is up to the task. 

Marissa does the math and finds that MB is really wanting 11% of her waking hours to be dedicated to self-care in order to feel happy and content with herself while maintaining healthy relationships with others. What comes up for you while you listen, dear codependummy? How do you relate and how can you prioritize your self-care by saying "no?"

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com 

https://linktr.ee/codependummy  

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28  

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

Thanks for listening!

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com. It’s a 10-part course filled with wisdom, ways, and writing prompts to help you start on your journey to transform from codependummy to codependiamond!

How can you be codependent on a relationship instead of a partner?

How do you recognize a pattern of codependency in past relationships?

How do you create an interdependent relationship if you’ve been a codependummy your whole life?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Ben Fineman, AMFT about his experience being codependent on a relationship rather than his partner. How? Ben shares about needing things to “be good” with his former partner, what actions he took in order to make sure things were “good,” and what it took for him to acknowledge things were not “good” to leave the relationship. Ben describes the work he has done to to cultivate a healthy interdependence and why it’s worth it.

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com

Meet Ben Fineman, a Registered Associate Marriage & Family Therapist #119754, Supervised by Curt Widhalm, LMFT #47333, is a psychotherapist in Los Angeles who specializes in helping young professionals and creatives find greater success in their personal and professional lives. He holds a BS in Business Administration from Boston University and an MA in Clinical Psychology from University of the West. Ben is a former professional high-stakes poker player and cohost of the Very Bad Therapy podcast.

Ben's information:

www.benfinemancounseling.com

https://www.facebook.com/benfinemancounseling

More deets on this week’s episode:

Ben kicks us off with his definition of codependency: putting your needs behind somebody else's and potentially taking that on as your identity. MIC DROP! He provides examples of how this may come up with another struggling with addiction, in romantic relationships, and other arenas where a codependent subverts their needs and does it for survival. Ben discusses the very real fear that codependents have: "if the other person you rely on most is lost, then you will be alone in the world." 

Ben opens up about his own codependency in his first serious relationship from the time he was 19-32 years old. He acknowledges how it was unhealthy "in some ways" where he defined himself through the relationship. Instead of sharing about his work with clients, Ben turns the script and asks Marissa for direct feedback to help him understand his own codependency in his relationship. 

Ben opens up about the distress he had when the relationship was doing poorly. He felt anxious, unstable, and needed to address any issue ASAP while his partner needed space. Marissa poses the question if Ben was codependent on the relationship being "good" in order to feel good within himself. Returning to the definition he discussed at the beginning, she highlights how he was putting the needs of the relationship above his own and subverting his needs in order to maintain cohesion in the relationship. 

Ben opens up about when he started to have doubts in his relationship and what led to him eventually decided to end it. He attempted to enter into another relationship but thankfully was able to recognize the need to be in relationship with himself rather than look for another long-term relationship to be codependent on. Ben shares about his healing journey and how he started reading books on Buddhist philosophy, psychology, and going to therapy. He began to reject the idea that he was only worthy in a relationship.

Marissa asks Ben about how he was able to recognize his unhealthy patterns, make changes, and then actually apply that to a relationship. Ben opens up about how he was drawn to his fiance thanks to him being very clear about wanting an "interdependent" relationship. Marissa reflects how Ben and his new boyfriend (then fiance) were very clear about their boundaries and how they did not want to overly rely on one another or subvert their needs for the relationship. Thanks to Ben's work on himself, he was able to assert his need for interdependence and his then boyfriend responded with understanding and compassion. 

Fast forward, Ben now has been able to grow and pursue his own independent interests while being in a healthy relationship. He attends events by himself, finds ways to self-soothe, and enjoy his own company when he is alone. The fears of being alone, being abandoned come up but "I've had to learn to tolerate it" and has found ways to take care of himself. Be sure to hear Ben open up about how becoming more self-reliant and independent led to him diving deep into his new passions and the contentment it brought him to do that!

This is what healing sounds like, right? 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28 Pema Chodron Book

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

Thanks for listening!

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com. It’s a 10-part course filled with wisdom, ways, and writing prompts to help you start on your journey to transform from codependummy to codependiamond!

• How can codependency lead us to "love bomb" in new relationships?
• How can we either be codependent with our friends + family OR our new love interest--and what happens when our relationships are off balance?
• What questions should we ask or things to look for in a new relationship to avoid becoming codependent?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Christie Kederian, PhD, about codependency's impact on starting new relationships, how our "need to please" can lead us to be too dependent on the opinions of others on our new beau, and what we can do to create healthy, interdependent dating relationships.

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com

Meet Dr. Christie Kederian, a nationally renowned relationship expert who specializes in helping clients create lives they love and find love they deserve. With an extensive career as a professional matchmaker and relationship expert, Christie has helped hundreds of people find love and improve their relationships. She received her doctorate from USC, is a radio host of The Lyrical Therapy Hour, and has been a featured expert in ABC, NBC, KTLA, the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, Cosmopolitan and many more. She is the educational outreach representative for the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists and provides trainings for pre-licensed MFTs.

Christie's information:

www.drchristiekederian.com

@datedoctorchristie

More deets on this week’s episode:

We start with hearing Dr. Christie's definition of codependency: when you place somebody else's needs above your own and you also place your own well-being upon someone else's well-being. That can be one person, a community, or an environment. 

Christie talks about where she has seen codependency come up within "every area of our lives" so we need to learn about it and be aware so we can center, recognize what is healthy for us, and go with that. She gives examples of how she has experienced and witnessed codependency in her Armenian culture as well as in other collectivistic cultures. Christie also adds how her faith as a Christian has led to her trying to find ways to give and love without over-giving and over-loving. 

Marissa asks Christie about two ways that codependency can show up with dating: 1) how can codependents be overly dependent on the approval of their parents and friends and 2) how can codependents be overly dependent on their new partner while neglecting their other relationships. Christie shares how she has seen it all and her suggestion: wait to inform everyone else about how things are going so you don't find yourself caring too much what the "peanut gallery" thinks and ending a budding relationship too soon. She adds how, if we are overly dependent on a new partner, then we need to take a step back, reflect, and make sure we are pursuing this relationship because we want to. 

Christie comments on how culturally we have begun to be more and more codependent on our partners since they are supposed to be our "one and only." She shares with Marissa about men and women she's worked with will enter a relationship, neglect their family and friends, and need to reel themselves back in order to make sure they are meeting their own needs instead of expecting a partner to do so. 

Christie invites listeners to look at things they are looking for in a partner and start to work on that in their own lives. Her famous quote with her clients when they ask about their doubts or concerns with a potential partner: "Consistency over time." What are your deal breakers and, if you see any yellow flags, do they persist over time? 

Christie shares about love-bombing and how it relates to codependency: extreme connection and attachment with a new partner. "We get wrapped into it early on and are overwhelmed with love that isn't backed up by experience and trust." Marissa will be sure to cover this (since she experienced it so much) in an upcoming episode. 

We conclude by hearing from Christie on what to ask to make sure we are dating our soulmate (and not being a codependummy!). She encourages us to reflect on our values, goals, and what we enjoy during our free time. We can then look for that in a partner but it is important to look at ourselves first. Value-based dating is what Christie emphasizes with her clients. 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com

Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller

Ester Perel's book Dating in Captivity

Eight Dates by John Gottman

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28 

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

Thanks for listening!

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com. It’s a 10-part course filled with wisdom, ways, and writing prompts to help you start on your journey to transform from codependummy to codependiamond!

How can we be codependent while isolated from others?

How has Marissa been a codpendummy this past year since the pandemic hit?

How can we challenge our codependency to stop the self-sacrifice???

Thank you for listening!

Today’s episode is sponsored by Frame, a therapist matching service. Go to www.tryframe.com/dummy to get $20 off your first three therapy sessions! 

Be sure to sign up for my free e-course, Codependummy 101, made with love and intention to help you stop being such a codependummy so you can shine like a codependiamond? Sign up now at www.codependummy.com

In this week’s episode, Marissa reflects on ways she has been a little codependummy in quarantine!

How is that even a thing? If we are all locked up in our homes, social distanced, and more isolated from others--how can we be codependent? Marissa explains all! 

• Using the description of a dependent personality from Theodore Millon (1981), Marissa walks you through five criteria and shares in-depth about times this past year when she has self-sacrificed, avoided conflict, and belittled herself as “weak” thanks to her codependency resurfacing due to all the stress of Covid!
• From the examples given, you’ll be able to relate and also reflect on ways your codependency has also been triggered even though you may have been more isolated and on your own this past year than ever before in your entire life. 
• Marissa challenges you at the end to find ways that you can be more self-assertive, empowered, and address conflicts in your relationships since maintaining these codependent ways of being is not sustainable! Pay attention to what comes up as you listen since that likely is where you can start making some changes. 

We begin today’s episode with an acknowledgment that, unlike most episodes where Marissa reflects on codependency from years ago, this episode is chalk-full of current examples. Codependency runs deep and, despite Marissa’s healing and growth, she regressed into some old habits in 2020. 

You’ll hear Marissa summarize and detail the description of a codependent personality by Theodore Million (1981). According to Millon, those with a dependent personality looked, sounded like, and behaved in the following ways:

1. Characteristically docile and noncompetitive, and avoids social tension and conflicts (Millon calls is “pacific temperament”)
2. Needs a stronger nurturing figure, and without one feels anxiously helpless; is often conciliatory, placating, and self-sacrificing (“interpersonal submissiveness”)
3. Perceives self as weak, fragile, and ineffectual; exhibits lack of confidence by belittling own aptitudes and competencies (“inadequate self-image”)
4. Reveals a naive or benign attitude toward interpersonal difficulties; smooths over troubling events (“pollyanna cognitive style”)
5. Prefers a subdued, uneventful, and passive lifestyle, and avoids self-assertion and refuses autonomous responsibilities (“initiative deficit”)

You likely are asking, WHAT IN THE ACTUAL EFF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? Not to worry sis. Marissa proceeds to break down each of the criteria and give you real-life examples in order to develop your awareness and understanding. 

For the first criterion, characteriscially docile and non competitive, and avoids social tension and conflicts, Marissa shares about ways she was docile. She accepted instruction, was Ms. Obedient, and compliant with all the rules. Unlike others, she went into lockdown before Los Angeles went into lockdown! She also avoided social conflict like the plague in order to avoid the judgmenet, criticism, and disdain from others. What do you relate with from her examples?

Criterion #2: needs a stronger nurturing figure, and without one feels anxiously helpless; is often conciliatory, placating, and self-sacrificing. Marissa discusses how she regressed to an old behavior where she desired being taken care of, that is, codependent with her mom and dad despite being a 31-year-old GROWN A-- WOMAN. She also self-sacrificed for months as she learned the ropes of ordering groceries on line while her partner got to kick his feet up and enjoy all the benefits of her hard labor. She didn’t even realize how she was enabling him and acting like a martyr! How can you relate to this criterion?

Regarding the third criterion, perceiving self as weak, fragile, and ineffectual; exhibiting a lack of confidence by belittling own aptitudes and competencies, Marissa was not kind to herself this past year. She tells about belittling herself as weak, fragile, and ineffectual, that is, thinking she lacked the ability and quality to cope with the lockdown. Marissa tells a hilarious story about an encounter with another pedestrian and how she was shamed by him for her efforts to maintain a social distance. “You’ve got me all wrong Mister!” was all Marissa wanted to yell out to him in order to preserve a positive image...even random pedestrians. How have you thought yourself weak, fragile, or belittled yourself this past year? 

Criterion #4: reveals a naive or benign attitude toward interpersonal difficulties; smooths over troubling events. Marissa gets very personal and shares about how she declined an invitation to her best friend’s wedding due to her fear of coronavirus. THIS WAS NOT AN EASY TASK PEOPLE. Marissa shares how she was trying to avoid an interpersonal difficulty, to smooth over troubling events, and to keep the peace--but she was nervous, anxious, and scared the whole time. It led to her finally creating a boundary and feeling more empowered with herself. How have you smoothed things over or avoided interpersonal difficulties this past year since the pandemic began?

Last but not least, the fifth criterion: prefers a subdued, uneventful, and passive lifestyle, and avoids self-assertion and refuses autonomous responsibilities. Marissa shares about how much she wants to have a passive and subdued life since it is free of all conflict, confrontation, and guilt! She shares about a time when she asserted herself and regretted it immediately. However, she’s been able to reflect and see how it really was okay for her to assert her needs. Where have you chosen to have a passive lifestyle this past year? How have you neglected asserting yourself? 

And that’s all folks! Marissa has now presented you with five criterion for codependency and examples of it coming up this past year in her life.

The episode ends with a challenge since acting, thinking, feeling, and keeping these criteria in your life is not sustainable! So, this week, Marissa challenges you to, in at least one area in your life, to pick a criteria and do the opposite! For example, if you have been docile, then you need to be “willful” (while also being safe). If you have felt weak or belittled yourself, how can you be strong and empower yourself this week? If you’ve avoided taking responsibility for yourself, how can you practice self-autonomy this week?

Let Marissa know how it goes!

___________________________________________________________________________

Today’s episode is sponsored by Frame, a therapist matching service.

Founded in May 2020, they’re on a mission to help you find the perfect therapist. 

Go to www.tryframe.com/dummy

Using Frame is free and they’re also offering my listeners an exclusive code for $20 off each of your first 3 sessions once you match with a therapist.  

ALSO, have you signed up for Marissa’s free course, Codependummy 101? It’s a 10 part course WAS MADE TO HELP YOU stop being such a codependummy so you can shine like a codependimond! Sign up at www.codependummy.com

How did the term “codependency” first come about?

How do experiences in our childhood shape codependency as adults?

What to do if and when we are in a codependent sh*t storm?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Curt Wildhalm, LMFT, about the root of the term codependency, how our childhood caregivers contribute to us becoming codependent (thanks mom and dad!), and how Curt helps his clients take a breath and build awareness to their codependent reactions in order to create change in their lives. 

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com. 

Check out FRAME, a therapist matching service. They want to help you find the right therapist. Go to www.tryframe.com/dummy for $20 off your first three sessions!

.

Meet Curt Widhalm, LMFT in Los Angeles, Professor at Pepperdine and CSU Northridge, Co-host of The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Podcast (and a huge inspiration for Marissa starting her own podcast!).

Curt’s information:

https://www.facebook.com/curtwidhalmlmft

https://twitter.com/curt_widhalm

https://www.instagram.com/curtwidhalmtherapy/

More deets for this week’s episode:

• Curt provides listeners with the history of the term “codependency” and how it came about in the 1920s thanks to mental health professionals observing the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of partners and family members of alcoholics. Thankfully, the term has broadened to include individuals beyond those with addiction and alcoholism in their families. 
• Curt opens up about codependency in his own life and sheds a light on codependency in men, codependent with groups of people (rather than just in a one-to-one relationship), and how it is something he continues to bring awareness to since codependency isn’t something we get over but live with on a day-to-day basis
• Marissa and Curt walk through an example from Marissa’s live when she was “prescribed perfection” and how that has impacted her for over 20 years! What’s she supposed to do when her codependent perfection strikes? Listen to the episode to hear the answer!

Curt begins by sharing with Marissa about how he sees codependency as “needing to be perfect.” Curt shares about how, originally, the term was used to describe partners and family members of addicts and alcoholics, however, how it has expanded beyond that where anyone who is “self-sacrificing” or has “prescribed perfectionism” can be considered codependent. 

Curt shares how codependency is truly a “mumbo jumbo” term where we do not have a neat, clearly defined term for it. Marissa and Curt start to venture back into the 1920s when codependency first began. When Alcoholics Anonymous was first founded, the counselors and mental health providers noticed that the family and loved ones of the alcoholics continued to have mental health problems despite the alcoholics sobriety. 

Curt and Marissa explore how codependency can come up in males. Curt suggests that codependency may be more prevalent in males but we typically picture females when we think “codependent.” Curt normalizes why we refrain from calling males “codependent” since it is emasculating. Curt emphasizes how also, thanks to the history of codependency, we do not assign it to the thoughts, actions, and feelings of men. Thankfully, Curt shares about his own experiences with codependency and ways that has shown up in his own life. 

“A sense of accomplishment by doing more and more for everybody else.” Mic drop! Curt acknowledges how he wasn’t codependent in a relationship with one person--he was codependent with whole groups of people! 

We then shift to talk about how, if we are striving for perfection and self-sacrificing, there is an inevitable need to cope with the stress that typically manifests as negative coping skills: nicotine, food, sex, porn, alcohol, and so on. Curt shares about how shame comes in which will lead to emotional deprivation and burnout. 

Emotional deprivation comes up when Curt shares about the bridge between self-sacrifice and burnout. When we self-sacrifice and engage in emotional deprivation, then we will experience burnout! Emotional deprivation leads to us shutting off and then leads to those same negative coping skills discussed earlier: food, porn, alcohol, and other thrill-seeking behaviors. Marissa circles back to ask Curt about whether his striving for recognition and acknowledgement is more fulfilling now and he shares honestly about being in acceptance and nicer to himself. 

Why is codependency so hard to define??? Curt discusses how there are two paths towards codependency: needing to be a “perfect” child versus needing to “be your own parent” where individuals have little guidance but lots of discipline. Curt shares about how, if the term exists, individuals can be “healthfully neglected,” meaning they grew up with independence way too early. 

Curt shares at length and gives examples of parentified children who turn out codependent and pseudo-independent children who grow up trying to appease, mind read, and predict the anger of their parents thanks to negative experiences when they are yelled at, criticized, or disciplined after having no direction. Curt and Marissa then look at an experience from Marissa’s childhood when she was witnessed arguments about cleanliness that turned into her being a very cleanly adolescent, young woman, and adult! She is still trying to appease her parents away at school, with roommates, and in her marriage. 

What is the answer? What should we do, with our awareness, repeating our patterns--what is the answer? “Slow down and breathe, ask whose feelings are you holding?” Curt shares about how we often try to get out of our feelings but we NEED TO FEEL THEM! We need to be better at feeling anxiety and anger--we don’t avoid, get out of, but HAVE THEM. In those feelings, asking ourselves: Is this my anger? Is this my anxiety? Where does it come from? This reminds me when...X...said or did Y...that’s a them problem and not a me problem. Be better at being anxious, angry, and imperfect. 

Perfectionism and self-sacrifice are really, really hard habits to break. Curt shares about how we can implement coping skills in order to bring awareness if and when moments of codependency come up and our “knee-jerk” reaction of prescribed perfection comes up. Over time, if we keep practicing these coping skills, we will begin to improve our codependency and find more self-acknowledgement and self-fulfillment rather than rely on others to make us feel good about ourselves.

Be sure to check out Curt’s website for a personalized daily checklist to go through for people working through their codependency. 7 Questions of things to look at each and every day! https://curtwidhalm.com/resources/

Helpful links:

Sign up for my free course Codependummy 101 at www.codependummy.com

Healing The Shame That Binds You by John Bradshaw

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28 

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

How does a coach deal with codependency with her clients?

How does codependency lead us to live out the dreams of others rather than our own?

How can self-hate lead to a self-loving journey to heal from codependency?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Crystal Morgan, a life coach, about codependency, codependency in coaching clients, and how she works with individuals to stop living someone else’s dream so they can start living their own!

Thanks for listening! 2 favors to help a sista out:

-Please leave a rating and review! How to-->https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28

-Check out FRAME, a therapist matching service. They want to help you find the right therapist. Go to www.tryframe.com/dummy for $20 off your first three sessions!

Meet Crystal Morgan, a life coach who helps her clients better connect with themselves and the things they want in life. Her superpower is bringing clarity to her clients on the true issues holding them back, helping them accept who they are right now, working with them on who they want to become, and creating a life they enjoy.

Crystal’s info:

www.crystalmorgancoaching.com

https://www.facebook.com/crystalmorgancoaching

https://www.instagram.com/crystalmorgancoaching/

More deets for this week’s episode:

• How we codependummies can look like we have it “all together” but we are really performing and pleasing everyone by doing what we think they want us to do...and how this connects with our childhoods?
• Codependents are at the mercy of the approval or disapproval from others--including relationships as well as in environments like school, work, and communities
• How to know if you are living your dreams or the dreams of someone else? You’ll hear about the signs that you are out of alignment with what you truly want for yourself!

Crystal talks about her past and healing journey that started when she realized she was pretending and mimicking success. She was inspired to become a coach thanks to her journey after she hit bottom with depression, suicidal thoughts, and was able to come out of that after spending five years working on herself. 

Crystal started to ask questions about what she wanted to do and who she was. Before, she used to hide parts of her, however, once she started to practice self-acceptance and self-compassion, she was able to realize that as a messy human, it’s okay to let go of the expectations from others. We talk about having realistic expectations for your own timeline and how, if you’ve been struggling for years, it is going to take time to heal. It may seem like it will “take forever,” but you are struggling now so you can either keep struggling or work towards your healing. The goal is to go through the process rather than search for the “magical cure” so you are prepared for other obstacles that come up in your path. Crystal normalizes the fear of asking for help since people think they will be overwhelmed in negativity--but she has found that is not the reality. “Once you hit the peak, it will come down and level out.” She emphasizes anticipating that and then how you will be better able to handle things going on. 

Crystal and Marissa discuss the power of having a coach, therapist, consultant to help young women who are struggling since they are able to see the blindspots and guide them since they have been through those same experiences. They both reflect on the benefits they received from hiring professionals to help them get where they wanted to be way sooner than doing it on their own. 

Crystal defines codependency as “any time that you live your life in a way that is a result of trying to get someone else’s or something else filled. It can manifest itself with a person or with an activity.” She reflects on her codependency and it’s connection to her ambition. Yes, her ambition. She accomplished a lot but was totally dependent on the approval and accolades of others. 

Crystal provides examples of how we can be codependent with our looks: we hold a standard of our physical body and feel poorly about ourselves if we don’t meet it. She also provides an example of codependency in relationships where we will cling to a partner out of fear of being single and alone. We think “I won’t be enough unless I’m in a relationship, fit a certain body type, meet the expectations of my boss, etc.” We turn into chameleons in order to receive love thanks to what we learned as children and relationships being transactional. 

Crystal and Marissa talk about how we have to look at our patterns, the undercurrent or underlying motives, and how that keeps us on a codependent hamster wheel. Crystal highlights how lack of awareness leads us to stay in negative patterns and how that typically is what gets in the way of her clients achieving success. Her number one tip for her clients to build awareness? Keep asking “Why?” And follow that answer up with another “Why?” 

And what about the listener who is stuck in her patterns but thinks that she should be able to handle it on her own? Again, Crystal encourages you to keep asking yourself “Why?” and see what’s underneath your hesitation to reach out for help. She recalls back in her past when she worried she would look weak, like she was too much, and that she should be able to take care of her problems on her own. BUT, Crystal emphasizes how we need community and how we are meant to get better with the help from others.

And how do we build the discernment that we are accomplishing our dreams instead of someone else’s? Crystal provides a metaphor to really help you understand and get in touch with what you want to do. Marissa asks about whose dreams Crystal’s clients are often living out--mom, dad, mom and dad? Crystal shares how “it typically is the person you feel most abandoned from.” Oof! If your dad was not emotionally there for you, and you do what you think he wants you to do, maybe then he will provide the protection you’ve sought? 

We end our discussion about the power with acceptance. No, not accept things as they are like “It’s okay that I remain here.” No, not that--but stop living in denial. “I hated myself,” admits Crystal, which then led her to figure out why that was--she started with acceptance. This is where change really happens--when you admit who you are, how you are feeling, and your circumstances for what they are in the present so then you can start to take action. This will help you move from the superficial to the depth underneath your behaviors that are causing you pain. 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com for my free course, Codependummy 101

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28 

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

Thanks for listening! 2 favors to help a sista out:

1. Please leave a rating and review!

Check out FRAME, a therapist matching service. They want to help you find the right therapist. Go to www.tryframe.com/dummy for $20 off your first three sessions!

The Codependummy Dilemma: Live Coaching with MV

The Codependummy Dilemma segment is back! 

This week’s episode, listen in to hear me walk through an aspect of MV’s life where she’s caught up in a codependent quagmire. “How do I be myself in social situations?” What’s a codependummy to do?

Listen in to hear me walk MV through her current codependummy dilemma and how she needs to create a “codependency contingency” plan for when she starts to set boundaries in her social and occupational life. It’s not as easy as “set a boundary.” It’s “set a boundary and then lean on multiple coping skills to help you withstand the overwhelming anxiety that comes when we either say ‘no’ or act in alignment with what we want.” Sheesh!

Thank you for listening! 

Be sure to join the Facebook group, The Codependummy podcast at facebook.com/groups/codpendummy. I’ll be opening the doors on March 8 to offer live coaching, Q&A, and info about an upcoming course. Request to join the Facebook group today at facebook.com/groups/codpendummy--don’t be a dummy and wait till March 7. If you sign up this week, I’ll send you a free link to my workshop on Communication Styles! Hop on it sis! 

In this week’s episode:

-Marissa walks through, LIVE, with a listener, MV, a Codependummy Dilemma she is having where she is having to confront her codependency--how to be herself in social and work situations?

-MV opens up about how she has been rewarded to put the needs of others above her own and how that’s led her to feel exhausted by her codependency as a young woman because she’s always in service to others. 

-MV leaves the Codependummy Dilemma with a clear plan for how she can cope with her codependency as she navigates social and work situations where she needs to be “herself” instead of what others expect her to be. 

______________________________________________________________________

Deets: in this episode, Marissa sits down with listener MV to walk through a current dilemma she’s pondering thanks to her codependency. As codependents, you likely often get into situations where you are trying to decide: do I do what I want to do or what others expect of me? Should I say how I am actually feeling or stay quiet to maintain the peace? Should I cancel that appointment or keep it lest I disrupt someone else’s plans???

In addition to providing psychotherapy, Marissa is also a Codependency Coach! Unlike therapy which is more focused on the past, coaching is all about the present and future. Marissa asks MV about some aspects of her codependency that she’s experienced in the past but then dives into how that is impacting MV currently as well as how it comes up at work and in social situations. 

We start with asking MV about ways she has been raised, reinforced, and rewarded to put the needs of others above her own. MV talks about how she was raised to be “tough” by her father and she did that to please him. MV then proceeded to be “tough” in order for her father. She would even brag to her father about when she was unaffected by things in order to please him. 

MV then shares about a recent experience with her father, in her 20s, when she did the same thing! She was “tough” and helpful in order to get his approval. “He basically praised me for anticipating his needs.” 

We then hear how that’s led to her being exhausted, exasperated, and enveloped in crap relationships, including the one she has with herself. MV reveals how she it’s “super tiring” to please others. She shares how she often is compared to others, how she tries to “beat” others in comparison, and how she is tired of always anticipating the needs of others. She over-gives and then doesn’t receive in return...IT’S EXHAUSTING! 

What Codependummy Dilemma did MV want to talk through? “Who am I?” Her fear of “being herself” in social situations, even if it may lead others to view her negatively. 

MV shares how she has been basing her life decisions on what others expect of her. Her grandfather says “do this,” her cousin says “do that,” her parents expect her to “be like that.” She continues to live that out in her life choices. 

“How do I be myself? For myself? And not ‘be myself’ because others will want that?” 

Marissa helps MV walk through a situation where she had a choice: be myself or be in service to others? She had a crying toddler she was tutoring and his disgruntled grandfather. She ended up being in service to the toddler and grandfather and, instead of staying for the 45 minutes she committed to, she stayed for over 20 hours! 

What can she do next time to “be herself?” Marissa helps MV make a “codependency contingency plan” in order to cope with the overwhelm and anxiety that inevitably comes when we assert ourselves, create boundaries, or speak our truth. MV agrees how making a phone call, listening to a podcast episode, and reminding herself how good she’ll feel after maintaining the boundary in order to deal with the anxiety. Marissa also assigns MV journal assignments to write how she can be “herself” at other social gatherings with friends and colleagues. 

Please send Marissa an email or DM on how today’s episode helped you with your own codependummy dilemmas. She can forward to MV to help her feel more empowered too! 

If you want to be on for the Codependummy Dilemma, please email [email protected]

Thank you for listening. Go to www.codependummy.com to sign up for my free e-course Codependummy 101! 

Helpful links:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/codependency-food-weight-body-image-cori-rosenthal/id1550681775?i=1000508146785

www.codependummy.com

Minisode: Validating, Recognizing, and Acknowledging Ourselves Thank you for listening to The Codependummy Podcast! 

I decided to drop in and celebrate passing the 4-week milestone with the podcast! 

I am validating, recognizing, and acknowledging myself--what all us codependents need to do! 

I also validate, recognize, and acknowledge all of you listeners! 

Marissa summarizes the:

->1100 downloads

-127 ratings

-87 reviews

And listeners from all over THE WORLD! I see you Australia, Uganda, Bosnia, India, Greece, Jamaica, Russia, Poland, and Spain. 

I also see you Los Angeles, Nashville, St. Louis, Santa Fe, New York, Washington, Des Moines, Seattle, Austin, and all ya'll over the states. You are helping me achieve my life's mission to empower young women to stop playing small and start taking up space! Keep sharing and keep listening.  I'll keep working on validating, recognizing, and acknowledging myself and hope you can do the same with your efforts.

Be sure to join the Facebook group: facebook.com/groups/codependummy for March Madness with the podcast come March 8! I'll also send two workshops: Imposter Syndrome and Self-Care in Self-Quarantine.