The Codependummy Podcast

How can we learn from our favorite songs that resonate with our codependent ways?

What can Olivia Rodrigo’s song “Favorite Crime” shed light on with our codependency?

Welcome to The Codependummy Playlist: a new segment where I break down a song that is quintessentially codependent. In this week’s episode, I discuss “Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo. If you haven’t heard of her or her new album, you are welcome my dear codependummy. When I heard it, I thought “I’ve got to dissect this on the podcast.” Alas, here we are. This is the first of many episodes where I will take a song, break it down to highlight the codependency depicted in it, and help you stop making it an anthem but rather an “old song you used to like.” Here goes it girl! 

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to follow me on instagram @therapywithmarissa

Deets on the episode:

Welcome The Codependummy Playlist! This is Part 1. In this new segment, I will: first, pick a song that I like that resonates with codependency; second, I will take said song and break it down and it’s quintessential codependent-ness; and third, I will try and find ways to help you stop resonating so much with this song since you aren’t being a codendummy but a codependiamond. T

In this week’s episode, I analyze “Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo (please submit votes for what to call this segment: The Codependummy Anthem, The Codependummy Theme Song, or DJ Codependummy to [email protected]).

How are we defining codependency today? I define it as “a way of being where one prioritizes the feelings, wants, and needs of another in an unconscious attempt to fulfill their own feelings, wants and needs.” I also pull from David Malan, a British psychologist who defines dependence as “an intense need in relation to human beings.” From that, we can describe co-dependent as two individuals with an intense need in relation to each other. 

“Favorite Crime” by Olivia Rodrigo: https://open.spotify.com/track/5JCoSi02qi3jJeHdZXMmR8?si=8af6da99ae424658

I don’t have permission to play it so you will have to give it a listen now or after the episode. 

Situation: the 14-month dating relationship I had at 21. I just discuss the first four months. The entire thing was brutal but I’m keeping it simple and discuss the first 1/3rd of the relationship. 

Context: I interweave the psychological phenomena “compulsion to repeat” or “repetition compulsion.” According to Freud, this happens when a person repeats an event or its circumstances over and over again. For example, traumatic repetitions could be seen as the result of an attempt to retrospectively "master" the original trauma. It’s not conscious, not logical, irrational, and non-sense. 

How did we meet? One-night stand! What comes up as I share the details?

Let’s break the lyrics down and apply them to the relationship in a timeline: 

“Know that I loved you so bad, I let you treat me like that. I was your willing accomplice honey.”

I apparently lusted him so bad after just meeting him since I was, indeed, his willing accomplice in our break-in. I disappointed my roommates, disappointed myself, but, when he reached out, I engaged.

I let him treat me poorly when we went to a house party and he grabbed my thong through my dress and snapped it. Ugh. We proceeded to hang out then go back to my place to have sex. No condom either. I’m sorry everyone. I let him treat me like that. 

“The things I did, just so I could call you mine. The things you did.”

The things I did: I went all out and dressed up as Lady Gaga to a rave! X’s on my breasts, goggles as sunglasses, and a black tutu.

I tolerated him texting his ex-girlfriend the evening we were out at said rave.

The things I did after that? With my blessing, I let him go visit her.

“Crossed my heart as you crossed the line and I defended you to all my friends.”

I am yours baby. I crossed my heart. “I feel so safe with you.”...safe? The interactions we had were familiar to me.

I defended him. I defended the controversy he got himself caught up in, I defended him to the people who knew about the controversy, the fact that he didn’t know who he wanted to be with, and his jerk behavior. 

I slept with someone else, so thus, I have no legs to stand on when it came to how he was treating me. 

Do you know how you avoid the compulsion to repeat? Once you become conscious of what you are doing, even semi-conscious, you disengage. 

I’ll share more on an upcoming episode how I set up boundaries, saw myself at a fork in the road where I could have chosen myself or chosen him--and I chose him. The healing comes when we see that fork and we choose ourselves. 

www.codependummy.com 

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28  

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

How is it that so much of what codependents go through is grief?

What are the 5 Stages of Grief and how do codependents experience them?

How can addressing our grief help us not repeat our codependummy patterns in relationships?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Lesleigh J. Tolin, M.S., Grief Recovery Specialist about the interconnection between codependency and grief. Experts on codependency have suggested that codependents experience grief often in their relationships and Lesliegh is here to help us understand how. You’ll hear her share with us about her own experiences with codependency, how she defines it, and the variety of grief experiences we can have (you’ll be surprised!). Lesleigh adds why it is important for us to address our grief and ways you can start to do so today. 

Thanks for listening! 

About this episode’s guest: 

Lesleigh J. Tolin is trained as a psychotherapist and certified Grief Recovery Specialist. She is based in Los Angeles and works with clients in the US and internationally by teaching them the eight-week Grief Recovery Method online to help them cope with loss while also changing their knowledge, attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors about grief. Lesleigh herself has experienced an inordinate amount of losses and has a passion for helping others transform their own.

Lesleigh’s information:

Lesleighjtolin.com

www.instagram.com/lesleigh.tolin

www.linkedin.com/in/lesleigh-j-tolin-ms-counseling-psychology-02433021

www.facebook.com/LesleighJTolin

More deets on this week’s episode:

Question 1: How does Lesleigh define codependency? "Codependency is a very emotional condition in which what we each do is we frequently give up ourselves for the needs of others. Again and again and again. That's learned behavior for those of us who may have been traumatized early in life at home...we become so frightened that what we begin to do is give up ourselves so we can please others to stay safe."

Question 2: How has Lesleigh experienced that in her own life? "I'm an open book about it." Lesleigh shares with Marissa and listeners about growing up in an alcoholic home where she witnessed physical and emotional abuse. "I was always the peacemaker and it was my job to make sure everything was okay..."

*random observation: Lesleigh is so open about her parents. Marissa shares her envy.

Question 3:  In her book, Codependent No More, Melody Beattie writes about codependency and grief. For Lesleigh, how are codependency and the grief process related? "Two thoughts to share: the Five Stages of Grief and how codependency and grief relate." Lesleigh describes the five stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. And what is grief? Not just the loss of a loved one. It's getting dumped, getting fired, dealing with a pandemic, moving to a new city, graduating from school, etc. The list truly goes on and on! "If we don't' heal from the trauma [from previous losses], we are going to repeat the process."

"If we are being codependent, we are sad because we are giving up ourselves for others." That giving up is a loss!

Question 4: What are some other types of grief we should be mindful of? Lesleigh discusses her mentor and trainer, John James, and his definition of grief: The conflicting mass of emotions we have when anything familiar in our life changes. When an alcoholic gets sober, when a relative develops dementia, when we go into lockdown due to a pandemic, etc. What comes up as you hear the list??? If you relate, it's okay since Lesleigh normalizes how we are "broken-hearted but not broken."

Question 5:  What IS the Grief Recovery Method? Lesleigh describes her specialty, how it was founded, and ways she helps codependents work through their grief with the 8-step process. "The program is simple. It's a structured, short-term, compassionate, action and evidence-based program for any one who is walking through any kind of a loss." She helps them develop a "tool box" that they develop while coping with a grief or loss in their past and then are able to utilize moving forward. 

Question 6: How can dealing with grief help cope with a codependent loss? Lesleigh discusses how the loss of former partner or routine often leads us to feel helpless: "we are not taught what to do when we lose others." Lesleigh helps them create a new sense of self where they are empowered and stop getting into codependent relationships over and over. 

Question 7: How has the pandemic compounded our grief? Lesleigh talks about the "tragedy we walked through collectively." For those of you who are codependent, the losses you had this past year were far more difficult to cope with since we were in lockdown! If you struggled, it's okay baby girl. 

www.codependummy.com

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

Email [email protected] to come on The Codependummy Dilemma! 

How do we stop seeking validation from others and get it from ourselves?

Do young men, just like young women, struggle with codependency as well?

What happens if we keep putting the needs of others above our own into our young adulthood? (HINT: a quarter-life crisis!)

Listen in to hear me walk through an aspect of ND’s life where he’s being a little codependummy and needed help on how to act like a codependiamond: SELF-VALIDATION. “How do I provide validation to myself rather than keep seeking it from others (and ruining the relationship in the process)?”

Thanks for listening! Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com/course

More deets on this week’s episode:

We start with getting to know ND and how he heard about the show. "My therapist is a big fan of your podcast and she referred it to me." ND admits that he has been listening to the podcast pretty much everyday which led to him reaching out to Marissa. 

Next, we hear some ways he was raised, reinforced, or rewarded to put the needs of others above his own. "With my childhood." ND reveals with us how his family set a high bar for him academically and "I just wanted to make them happy." He recalls how he pleased his parents, teachers, and fellow classmates by getting good grades, following the rules, and even did homework for his peers! "The needing of approval to make them happy" was pervasive in his life and led him to stress eat. 

ND discloses how he turned to food and excessive television to make him feel good. "I didn't have the worst childhood but it was still tough at time. And it's effected me a lot more than I thought." He describes being called "fat" by people he loved, people he looked up to, people he respected and felt very poorly about himself due to not feeling "good enough." Marissa highlights the vicious cycle where ND was not feeling like he was good enough, how he ate to cope with that "not-enough-ness," and then how he was teased which REALLY made him feel like he wasn't enough. "My happiness was so contingent on others being happy with me."

How’s that turned out? ND shares how he was exhausted, exasperated, and enveloped in shit relationships at the ripe-old age of 26! ND describes how he pursed a career he was not passionate about, how he stayed in toxic work environments where he was being bullied, and how he was in unhealthy relationships where he was too dependent on his partner to make him happy. "I kept doing all the things because I felt the pressure from everyone else that I should do what they wanted...it made me so unhappy." 

Marissa highlights ND's anthem "I will be unhappy so others will be happy...so maybe, I'll eventually be happy too." ND reflects on his new slogan: Two halves make a whole and he's focused on being a whole half. 

Next, we tackle MB's codependummy dilemma: "I want to talk about my personal relationships and love.” ND admits how codependent he was in his previous relationship and how "I've never been THAT codependent before in my life." So, what's the dilemma? ND shares how he was unable to provide himself with validation and sought it from her...to the relationship's detriment. She tried to create boundaries with time and he kept wanting, needing, and pining to be around her. 

"Do I keep seeking validation from her or try to validate myself?" ND admits how he started to try to do things on his own: exercise, spending time with friends, and other forms of self-care "but then I would think of her! I'd want to invite her or have her with me." When he tried things on his own, he started to miss her. "Everyday I looked forward to our nightly call right before bed." Aha!

Marissa asks ND about how he can work on self-validation by creating his own evening call with himself. "I need to tell myself I'm a good person. That I'm worth it. That I am worth being loved." Marissa challenges ND to have his own evening call with himself since he loved that looked forward to that while with his former girlfriend. "That sounds great...that's what I want to work on and not be codependent in my relationship." He agrees to try it out for the next 30 days. And Marissa does too!  

We conclude with ND trying a self-validation call. WOW, right? We all need to hear that daily.

___

Join ND and I in our 30 day self-validation challenge where you write a journal entry, create a voice memo, or leave yourself a voice message detailing your day and VALIDATING all your efforts. Document the good, the bad, and then be sure to VALIDATE YOURSELF. Be sure to email [email protected] with an update at the end of your 30-day challenge!

Helpful links:

https://linktr.ee/codependummy  

Tutorial to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28  

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com

Follow me on IG: https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

Email [email protected] to come on The Codependummy Dilemma! 

We know that codependency and addiction relate, but how do they really relate?

How can addicts and alcoholics be codependent too? 

How can practicing mindfulness and awareness of our bodies help treat codependency?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Jennifer Leupp, LCSW, about addiction, codependency, and the common addict-codependent relationship. But what about addicts: can they be codependent too? Jennifer helps us understand how addicts and alcoholics also can be codependent with friends, family, lovers, colleagues, and so on. But isn’t it always a codependent + an addict/alcoholic? Apparently not! You will also hear Jennifer share about her specialties with mindfulness and somatic therapy (ooo, what’s that, you ask?). Hear tips on how to pay attention to your thoughts as well as what goes on in your body to bring more awareness to your codependency. 

Thanks for listening! 

Jennifer Leupp is a Licensed Psychotherapist and Yoga Instructor seeing clients online that live in California. She specializes in working with Codependence, especially with women who are feeling anxious and stressed in their relationships with loved ones. She also specializes in Substance Abuse, working with Individuals who want to quit or cut down on their alcohol or marijuana use. Jeni uses Mindfulness, Somatic, Cognitive and Trauma-focused approaches to support her clients in growing and healing.

Jennifer’s information: 

https://jenimarie.org/

https://www.instagram.com/codependancer/

More deets on this week’s episode:

We start off where we always do: how does Jennifer define codependency and how has that come up in her own life? Jennifer remarks how most people have heard the term before but misunderstand it (right?). "To me, it means people that feel responsible for other people's problems, for other people's feelings, that have a hard time saying no, tend to people please, have a hard time setting boundaries, and difficulty expressing their feelings and needs. People who tend to not leave a lot of room for themselves."

Jennifer opens up about dating others and "I didn't have the best picker...and stayed in relationships longer than I should have." A huge part of her codependency was "trying to get them to change," where she would try and try and try...until she was exhausted. 

Jennifer admits how she dated without a lot of intention or thought behind it. Marissa admits to dating anyone who was interested then Jennifer highlights how her parents did not model dating with selection--what comes up as you hear this part?

Second question: How do codependency and substance abuse/addiction relate? Jennifer explains how typically we imagine a codependent in relationship with a partner, family member, or loved one who is an alcoholic or addict. BUT addicts and alcoholics can be addicts too. Jennifer describes how addicts/alcoholics can use to stay in relationships they are not happy with and ways she observed this while working in a drug and alcohol rehab center. She recalls examples of addicts or alcoholics who would use, while trying to get sober, because they were so concerned about making their friends comfortable--that's codependent. 

Third question: since we don’t typically think of codependents as addicts--how can codependents be addicts as well? Jennifer reveals how addicts will avoid sharing their feelings, avoid sharing their needs, which contributes to numbing, not wanting to feel, and staying in situations that are not satisfactory. 

Fourth question: what happens with addicts/alcoholics get sober and their codependency is evident? Jennifer shares how it is more obvious and apparent which can help make changes or, if things are not deal with, can lead to a relapse or slip. 

Fifth question: how can difficult past experiences or our upbringings result in Codependent behaviors? Jennifer shares about being parentified as a child, having past trauma, and negative experiences within our families often contribute to codependency. She gives us great examples where she's heard from others who became a confidante for a parent, experienced excess anger at home, or weren't allowed to have feelings. 

What are Mindfulness and Somatic approaches? Jennifer defines mindfulness as using the breath and tools to get "more in the moment." Somatic approaches is all about focusing on your body. When a feeling comes up - what does it feel like, what color, temperature, etc? Somatic is all about going in towards the feelings. Meditation and EMDR are both somatic approaches. 

How do these approaches help with codependency? With setting boundaries, Jennifer helps her clients use mindfulness and paying attention to their body to follow-through on setting the actual boundary. What if you back slide? Scripts help! Role play! Practice!

www.codependummy.com

https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

Email [email protected] to come on The Codependummy Dilemma!

The Dark Truth of My Codependency at Work: Sacrificial Helping Part III

As codependents, why do we allow ourselves to work in such toxic work environments?

How does being codependent at work shield me from having to deal with my own sh*t?

How does self-sacrifice serve us? *It doesn’t...but it does*

Listen to hear me get real, honest, and real honest in Part III of this series on Codependency & Sacrificial Helping Syndrome. Katie Vernoy, LMFT came on and shared with us what Sacrificial Helping Syndrom is--now I’m getting honest about how and why it came up for me at a previous position. And it’s dark. Katie posed multiple questions for all us codependendummies and here are my answers about how I “got off” on helping others, got to avoid dealing with my own sh*t, and how--deep down--I f*cking loved to bend backwards for my clients, colleagues, and bosses--as long as it meant I didn’t have to deal with or rely on myself. #codependummy to my core, right?

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to follow me on instagram @therapywithmarissa

Deets on the episode:

Codependency & Sacrificial Helping Syndrome Part III. Katie Vernoy, in her episode that aired May 17, provided us with questions to reflect on our self-sacrfice at work. I’m going to answer those to model to you all: this is how you use this podcast to promote growth and create change.

I start with giving you all more context about my position. All in all, I easily was logging 70-80 hours a week thanks to clients, meetings, travel, and documentation. I also was driving hundreds of miles a week all over Los Angeles and surrounding counties. Back pain, missing time with friends and family, and drowning my internal organs with cortisol from all the stress. 

And I did it. I did all that for 2.5 years. Ugh.

Now, Q&A. Write them out as you listen so you can answer them as well.

1. Why would I allow myself to get in that dynamic?

Direct quote from Katie: I had to constantly try harder, be better, help more, do more in order to feel like I was good enough. Part of it was looking at the toxic work environment. The other part was understanding why would I allow myself to get in that dynamic?

I too acknowledge that I was working in a toxic work environment. And now, the real question: Why would I allow myself to get in that dynamic? 

• I believed that was what I deserved. 
• I believed that by bending myself backwards as a good employee, it would make me good as a person. Good as a being.
• I got to relinquish control of my life. 
• I received your pity. 
• I loved to be needed.
• It gave me something to talk about. 

What comes up for you while listening? 

1. If you could imagine yourself with a diminished capacity, would you still be lovable and have value? 

Direct quote from Katie: Imagine yourself sick, tired, disabled, and sitting on a couch and not able to provide all this help. UNABLE, OLDER, all the things that are capacity will decrease. If you could imagine yourself with a diminished capacity, would you still be lovable and have value? 

Other direct quote from Katie: Just being there, sitting there, we are valuable and I think we don’t get that message from society if we aren’t pretty, thin, perfectly able, helping, sacrificing. If you are having to constantly empathize or understand the other - when the person you serve is way more important than you and everything should be aligned with what they need - if you haven’t developed who you are, you are spending your whole time being someone else who can serve. 

What comes up for you in response?

1. Who are you and what are you putting out into the world? 

Direct quote from Katie: It’s truly knowing who you are separate from other people. If it’s just you and no one is asking anything from you - you don’t have a role or can’t take care of anyone - who are you? 

1. If I had no responsibilities, who am I as an individual, if no one was relying on me in any way, no strong push, what would I be doing? 

Katie and I talked about how being needed is intoxicating and I asked what we are to do if we want to get “sober.” 

Direct quote from Katie: Take a breath and say it again (If I had no responsibilities, what would I be doing) since there are so many pressures that we internalize those pressures (oh, but i have to remember what). GET TO A VERY BLANK SLATE: What brings me joy? What are my areas of genius? What fills me up and doesn’t drain me?

1. WHO WOULD YOU BE IF YOU WERE NOT AFRAID? 

1. Suggestion from Katie: Pause, think, and get clear if and when you are wanting to self-sacrifice or be a helper at work (or anywhere): 

1. Is this toxic? 
2. Is this what I want or what others want for me? 
3. Then build up the resilience to build some limits here. 

That’s a wrap. Sacrificial Helping Syndrome Part III. Katie has a special offer for $150 a package with her. Link below!

Thank you for listening. I hope you like the Marianne Williamson poem!

www.codependummy.com 

Katie’s offer: http://bit.ly/OwnYourCareer-Codependummy

How can codependency turn into Sacrificial Helping at work?

What happens to a codependent who puts the needs of others at work above her own?

Why did I help and sacrifice so much for others while neglecting my own needs?

Listen to hear me talk and reflect on our recent episode, Codependency & Sacrificial Helping Syndrome, by sharing honestly and openly about what a codependummy I’ve been at work. I describe ways I sacrificed my time, body, and relationships in order to fulfill my role as “helper” at work. What happens when I put the needs of my clients, coworkers, and position before my own? Like Katie Vernoy discussed in Codependency & Sacrificial Helping Syndrome, my body screamed at me, my relationships suffered, and my time became solely focused on work. Why? I f*cking loved being busy, needed, and stressed...I just did not realize that truth at the time. Stay tuned for Part III next week! 

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to follow me on instagram @therapywithmarissa

In this week's episode: 

I start off with sharing my working definition of codependency: a way of being where one prioritizes fulfilling the needs of others in an unconscious attempt to fulfill their own needs. Like I’ve shared before, “I will be uncomfortable so you will be comfortable…” with the added “...and hopefully, if you’re comfortable, then I will be eventually too.” It’s not conscious but likely due to our childhood, past trauma, culture, and experiences, we come to this way of being where, in an attempt to get our needs met, we conclude we can only doing that by meeting the needs of others. Let me know if that makes sense.

I then share definitions of compassion fatigue, vicarious trauma, burnout, moral injury, and gas-lighting as referenced by Katie in her episode to help ya’ll out. 

Next, I review what codependency and Sacrificial Helping Syndrome means as described in the first episode and apply it to a position I held from 2016-2019. I definitely fell into the role as “helper,” and sacrificed in three main ways: I sacrificed my body, my time, and my personal relationships all for others at work. 

My body: I gained weight within the first few weeks thanks to the demands of the job. This was due to my stress eating that came from working 70+ hours per week. I felt guilty and ashamed of my behavior but did not realize or address the source: too much work. I gained a little weight and lost a little self-confidence. This then led to me not wanting to have sex which negatively impacted my relationship. I recall how my partner actually asked me if I was still interested in having sex with him after I kept turning him down. "No! I'm just stressed with work," was my honest response. I was so busy putting the needs of my job before my own that it led to my poor man thinking it was about him. 

I also open up about my lower back pain that developed thanks to driving all over Los Angeles and surrounding counties. I dealt with the symptom of lower back pain but not the problem: a toxic work environment with demands that were too much. I also share about how my doctor thought I had hyperthyroid thanks to symptoms I had...but it was just anxiety. This is what Sacrificial Helping/Codependency at works looks like. 

My time: Like Katie shared in the episode, “You wake up feeling like you are behind.” As a codependent at work, I felt behind all the time trying to please my bosses, meet with my clients, and finish my never-ending to-do list. I share about a time when I sat between the grandparents of one of my clients' to help them resolve a conflict that happened to be the same evening of my then-fiance's birthday. He and I had plans for dinner and I ended up arriving an hour late because I could. not. leave. I also worked throughout my honeymoon and describe how, as a codependent, I worked up until the last minute and ran back to work off the plane once I got back since I was the "helper" and could not leave my work or my clients for too long. 

My relationships: I was not present. Like Katie said, I was part of a system that “asked me to be different than I was and do more than I could in order to be acceptable.” I missed family gatherings, quality time with my friends, and opportunities to connect with my loved ones' in order to help my clients connect with theirs. No bueno! I also share and admit how, despite all the work I was doing, I ended up not only missing out on my relationships but I also stopped being present at work with my clients. The bitterness and depression ensued until I quit and found another job. 

Next week, I'll share about why I continued to work there. I answer the question about why I let myself stay in such a toxic environment--like Katie said, it was a badge of honor. I got a lot out of putting myself through so much. 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com 

https://linktr.ee/codependummy  

What kind of impact can codependency have on the body?

What will happen to us physically if we keep putting the needs of others above our own?

How can yoga and breath work help with healing from codependency? 

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Hailey Johnson, certified yoga teacher, about her own experiences with codependency and how she has been able to heal through yoga, breathwork, and meditation. Hailey opens up about being codependent as a student athlete on the praise and applause of others as well as in long-term, committed relationships where she relied heavily on her former boyfriends to fulfill her emotional needs. Hailey describes her journey and shares about the consequences people-pleasing and self-sacrifice can have on the body. You’ll hear her share about finding poses and breathing techniques in order to help you combat the physical toll codependency can have on the body. It’s a must-listen to promote your all-around healing from codependency. 

Thanks for listening! 

Meet Hailey Johnson, certified yoga teacher and the founder of Bloom Yoga & Wellness. Hailey’s mission is to teach others how to find inner peace and happiness through breathwork and meditation. She currently serves her students across the US via her online platform and is committed to bringing the healing benefits of yoga straight to your living room!

Hailey's information: 

https://bloom-yoga.org/

https://www.facebook.com/Bloom-Yoga-Wellness-103308921889517

https://www.instagram.com/breathe_andbloom/

More deets on this week’s episode:

First question: How does Hailey define codependency? "A reliance or dependence on something external." Hailey explains how it can be another person, a title, a job, or a label which fuels your happiness or love. 

Second question: How has Hailey dealt with codependency in her own life? "Oh, wow," she exclaims. Hailey shares with us about her codependency as a gymnast where she was heavily reliant on the approval, applause, and accolades of her coaches, judges, and teammates. She put all of her value and self-care into being a gymnast and then had an identity crisis since she was so intertwined with being a successful athlete. Marissa highlights how, while Hailey was codependent on her identity, she also was dependent on the people involved within that. The 10/10, high fives, and nods of approval were what she was reliant on. 

Hailey then expands on her former relationship where she "solely relied on my happiness from him." She admits how she did not know what self-love was and sought love from him. Marissa asks about the most poignant moment of her codependency with him and Hailey describes hitting an emotional rock-bottom after the break-up and it was only then when she realized how codependent she was with him. She placed all of her value on him to feel good about herself, feel happy, and be lovable. 

Third question: How was Hailey able to make such a drastic change after hitting bottom? Hailey had a realization that something had to change. "I had an insatiable thirst for self-development and self-knowledge." She found mentors, read books, attended therapy, and was able to create a healthy perspective of what she was battling: grief. She was grieving being an athlete, her relationship, and who she was before hitting rock-bottom. Hailey found that she was free, had just been born, and was able to paint on her blank canvas. Marissa highlights all the emotional and financial investment Hailey made and how that enabled her to find and re-create herself. Hailey agrees and emphasizes the emotional intelligence that she began to develop and how that helped her create an intimate relationship with herself. 

Fourth question: What are the short-term and long-term impacts of codependency on the body? Stress! Hailey discusses how most of her students report feeling stressed and difficulty maintaining their self-care. She's seen anxiety, tension, physical ailments, tight muscles, physical pain, etc. in the short-term. She's also seen chronic illness and how emotions can be stored in the body long-term that takes a toll on the body, nervous system, and our mental health. 

Fifth question: How has Hailey seen yoga and breathwork help her students heal from codependency? "Yoga is a way of life." Hailey describes how her students are able to practice what they do in yoga in the real world. She helps them lean into discomfort, get curious about what comes up for them in class, then address it in and outside of class. She encourages us to find a daily practice that works for you that grounds you and allows you to access your intuition. 

Sixth question: Where to start with yoga? Seek a class...like with Hailey!

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com

Follow me https://www.instagram.com/therapywithmarissa/

Email [email protected] to come on The Codependummy Dilemma!

What is Sacrificial Helping Syndrome and how does it relate to codependency?

Why do codependents sacrifice themselves for others over and over?

How can that show up at work and how can we make it stop?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Katie Vernoy, LMFT about the interconnection between codependency and Sacrificial Helping Syndrome (SHS). We discuss where the need to sacrifice and help others comes from, how it shows up in your life (especially at work), and the long-term consequences of repeatedly sacrificing yourself for others (it ain’t pretty!). Katie opens up about her own codependency and how that related to her SHS early on in her career as a therapist. Through her sharing about her own experiences and working with others, Katie helps us better understand our knee-jerk self-sacrifice and provides ways we can reign it in to avoid burnout, loneliness, and despair. This is a must listen for all you codependummies!

Thanks for listening! 

Meet Katie Vernoy, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist whose career spans many leadership and management roles in the mental health field: program coordinator, director, clinical supervisor, hiring manager, recruiter, and currently as Past President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. Katie provides therapy, consultation, and business strategy and also is the co-founder and co-host for the Therapy Reimagined Conference and the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast.

Katie's information: 

https://www.facebook.com/KatieVernoyManagementConsultant

https://www.instagram.com/katievernoy/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-vernoy-12515010/

Special offer: http://bit.ly/OwnYourCareer-Codependummy

More deets on this week’s episode:

First question: How does Katie define codependency? For Katie, she describes codependency as "you depend on someone for yourself worth, you depend on someone to make you feel better, you rely on someone to do that...there’s a gap you try and have others fill." She makes a contrast between independence and codependence to help us understand interdependence, which she describes as "I know I can do things for myself but I also rely on others." 

Second question: What is Sacrificial Helping Syndrome (SHS)? "My identity is based on helping other people." She contrasts codependency as a lack of identify and SHS as having an identify as "helper." When your identity gets completely taken up with helping others, then you only get value and worth from helping. She describes where this comes from, commonly with parentified children, trauma, or roles given in our family. "We get the most value and joy from helping people." That sounds great but Katie emphasizes how those with SHS become obsessive and excessive in helping.  

Third question: When has Katie experienced SHS? She shares about working in community mental health and how she was "grinding it out, tons of cases, and...doing way more than would fit in a 40 hour workweek." She describes how different systems that have become more feminized and have less value. Who carries the load of that loss of value? THE HELPERS! As a manager, Katie then experienced a sense of "You wake up like you're behind." She was burnt out!

Fourth question: How did Katie fill her internal gaps with work and sacrifice? Katie admits how "I had build such an identity as being a helper and I became codependent on my identity." She shares how she was not setting limits, standards, boundaries, and the like since she was such. a. helper. Marissa has her expand on how she was codependent on the feedback from others for being able to do so much, be so productive, and needed by others. 

Fifth question: How did Katie come to work on SHS? Looking at the system that depended on individuals to sacrifice themselves and then also penalize those who did not sacrifice led Katie to treat and focus on SHS as a professional. She knew that, once she was ejected, she could not go back and decided to help others who over-sacrifice. 

Sixth question: Why do we keep sacrificing ourselves? Katie describes how we are rewarded for helping...we just take it too far. In order to stop the self-sacrifice, Katie emphasizes a need to answer the question: Who are you? Katie discusses how society and our families raise us to be a certain way and eventually identify as the "helper." If we don't reflect internally and ask ourselves who we are without helping, then we will just keep doing it. 

Seventh question: If we used to get "intoxicated" on others needing us, then what do we replace that with? Katie simply states: it's not just one thing. But she encourages us to ask what brings me joy, what fills me up, and who would I be without helping. 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com

Katie’s special offer: http://bit.ly/OwnYourCareer-Codependummy

Thanks for listening!

Email [email protected] to come on The Codependummy Dilemma! 

How can having poor boundaries lead to a messy affair?

Do codependents attract and enable cheaters to cheat with them?

How can our need to please lead to the most unpleasing situations?

Listen to hear me talk and reflect on last week’s episode, Codependency & Infidelity, with an experience where I almost became the “other woman.” Thanks to my inability to create and maintain healthy boundaries with married men throughout my early 20s, I got into multiple situations where I let small boundary violations go unnoticed and unchecked...to my detriment. This episodes highlights how codependents can get ourselves into trouble the more we put the needs of others above our own, even sometimes leading to infidelity thanks to our inability to say “no.”

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to follow me on instagram @codependummy for daily quotes, clips, and posts to help you heal from your own codependency. 

In this week's episode: 

I begin by sharing about how, after doing some reflecting on last week's episode, I realized I forgot to talk to Dr. Alsaleem about one aspect of my codependency related to infidelity: my messes with married men. 

I propose that, thanks to my own codependency, and my rule “I will be uncomfortable so you will be comfortable,” I actually invited married men into my life, let them violate multiple boundaries, and it wasn’t until they had me cornered against a wall and trying to kiss me that I finally snapped back and put up a boundary. I set myself up to be the third party in an affair. 

Before I share the story, I share about boundaries: internal and external as well as boundary systems: intact, non-existent, damaged, and walls. 

Pay attention to the violations of my boundaries and see how you can relate. 

My mess with a married man: I was 21 years old, codependent, and became acquainted with a fitness instructor. He was about 10 years older, married, and started to do things that were "odd." Let's call him Mister. 

I share about how he texted me and started to make sexual references. He would treat me to dinner after a workout. And he was flirty with other students which gave me pause. 

We ended up putting a group of students together to run a half marathon. After completing the race, we celebrated but Mister asked to have another celebration a week or two later at my house. "Sure!" 

I then share about how, that evening, he was all over me and my best friend and roommate were horrified. 

"Marissa, he needs to leave." When I confronted him about leaving, he said "I won't leave until you kiss me."

"What? No Mister. I am not going to kiss you." I was able to get rid of him but then he came back. Violating my boundaries, right?

It ended with him trying to get with me (again) and me refusing him but really pushing the edge on acceptable behavior. 

This is what happens when we let others violate our boundaries over and over and over again. We put ourselves in situations where we are not comfortable and do things we are not proud of. 

Looking back, I can see how I felt responsible for his feelings, how I didn’t want to upset him but creating a boundary with his texts, and how I really set myself up. I was not honest about things he said or did that made me uncomfortable...and paid for it. 

Can you relate sis?

What comes up for you while listening?

Have you been in a similar situation? 

What would it be like to create a strong boundary at the first sign of a violation?

Do you agree that you are more vulnerable to being a third party or being taken advantage of in your family, relationship, at work, or with friends due to you difficulty in setting boundaries?

Let me know what you think! 

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @codependummy love. 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com 

https://linktr.ee/codependummy  

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28  

Want to work with me? Go to www.therapywithmarissa.com 

Be sure to sign up for my free course, Codependummy 101, at www.codependummy.com

How can codependency in one partner contribute to infidelity in another?

Why do codependents sometimes forgive infidelity so easily...and at what cost?

How can an unfaithful partner become codependent on the “other person,” and thus, hesitate to end their affair?

In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Dr. Talal Alsaleem, PsyD, LMFT about the interconnection between codependency and infidelity. We tackle how one codependent partner can contribute to the straying of the other. Dr. Talal shares his observations as a therapist working with couples healing from infidelity and how a codependent partner will have a “pseudo-repair” where they will try to “forgive and forget” in order to avoid being alone--but at what cost. We also discuss how the unfaithful partner sometimes feels guilty and extends their affairs out of codependent patterns with the third party. Codependency can really complicate complicated relationships, right?

Thanks for listening! 

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @codependummy for quotes, videos, and advice to heal from your codependency. 

Meet Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem, the creator of Systematic Affair Recovery Therapy (SART). He is an award-winning marriage counselor, researcher, and author of the acclaimed book, Infidelity: The Best Worst Thing that Could Happen to Your Marriage. Dr. Alsaleem also is the founder of The Infidelity Counseling Center.

Dr. Alsaleem’s information: 

https://www.survivinginfidelitycounseling.com/ (for counseling)

https://systematicaffairrecoverytherapy.com/ (for training)

https://www.facebook.com/DrTalalHAlsaleem

https://twitter.com/DrTalalAlsaleem

https://www.instagram.com/dr.talal.h.alsaleem/

More deets on this week’s episode:

First question (as always): How does Dr. Alsaleem define codependency? "I see codependency as a symbiotic relationship in which both partners are imprisoned by the desire to avoid growth and change." HOT DAMN DR. ALSALEEM, RIGHT? He spells out how in codependent relationships both partners seem to "benefit," but they truly aren't: there is over-reliance, unconditional love, and accepting a partner's behavior that is not acceptable. Marissa asks for an example and Dr. Alsaleem describes someone who "takes, takes, takes" while the other "gives, gives, gives."

Second question: Marissa asks what happens when codependency exists in a relationship and it contributes to a partner cheating? Dr. Alsaleem shares how "at one point, the scales tip" in the relationship since codependent relationships are not sustainable. Dr. Alsaleem shares how, in codependent relationships, one partner's needs are not being met so they will eventually find another outlet to meet those needs. He also discusses "burnout" where having a partner who is so reliant can lead another to stray. 

Third question: How can codependents challenge or obstruct the healing post-infidelity by forgiving too soon? Dr. Alsaleem shares how some couples can heal post-infidelity or decide to be apart. BUT, with codependents, they do not hold the unfaithful accountable. Without accountability, it sets the stage for not being introspective and making significant changes in the relationship. Dr. Alsaleem does not blame the codependent for the partner cheating but he wants them to hold them accountable. He sees issues most often when a codependent partner makes excuses for their partner who cheated, forgives too soon, and then makes no room for repair. 

Fourth question: How can the partner who was unfaithful be codependent on the third party? Dr. Alsaleem shares about how a partner can be codependent because they feel guilty about entangling them into an affair. They also put that person on a pedestal and will be more considerate, compassionate, and cautious with the third party's feelings, wants, and needs. 

Fifth question: How can codependents "forgive" but are really doing whatever they can to keep their partner around? Dr. Alsaleem emphasizes the need to see actual change! Codependents tend to forgive too soon without seeing the signs of change out of fear that their partner will leave them. 

Sixth question: Marissa reflects on how it sounds like it's a lot of work to repair after infidelity. Why, Dr. Alsaleem, is the work worth it? He gives us a metaphor of sustainable energy and unsustainable energy: one leads to long-term security and the other never gives you what you want. "Why not do the work and do something that is sustainable?" Grow and maintain versus always having to fix. 

Helpful links:

www.codependummy.com

How to leave a rating and review: https://youtu.be/2tN1JS8Kz28 

Find me on Instagram at @codependummy

Want to work with me? Check out www.therapywithmarissa.com or @therapywithmarissa on IG

Again, thanks for listening!

Follow me on IG @codependummy for reminders, refreshers, and reframes to help you along your healing journey from codependency!