The CopDoc Podcast: Aiming for Excellence in Leadership

By Dr. Steve Morreale - Host - TheCopDoc Podcast

Visit our website: https://www.copdocpodcast.com

The CopDoc Podcast delves into police leadership and innovation. The focus is on aiming for excellence in the delivery of police servic

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The podcast currently has 178 episodes available.

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Number 1: Rank Gives You Authority. It Doesn't Make You a Leader, Chris Hsiung, Executive Director - The Curve
The CopDoc Podcast - Season 10 - Episode 175 GUEST: Chris Hsiung, Undersheriff, San Mateo County Sheriff's Office, and Executive Director, The Curve EPISODE SUMMARY: Rank does not make a leader. That is the premise Chris Hsiung and I worked through in this conversation, and it shapes everything else we talked about. Chris has spent more than 30 years in policing, most of it with the Mountain View Police Department, where he rose from patrol officer to chief. He now serves as Undersheriff with the San Mateo County Sheriff's Office and leads The Curve, a nonprofit he co-founded with Simon Sinek to help police leaders build cultures grounded in trust and purpose. We talked about what it actually takes to change a department's culture, and why that work starts with what leaders do, not what they say. Chris put it simply: culture equals values plus behavior. A lot of agencies have values painted on the wall and printed on the cruiser. Few agencies have leaders whose daily behavior matches those words. We got into what happens when that gap goes unaddressed, why leaders need people who will tell them the truth instead of what they want to hear, and how Chris learned to lead by taking off the stars and getting into the jail, onto the ride-along, into the training room, alongside the people he was asking to trust him. This one is for chiefs, sheriffs, sergeants, and anyone tired of waiting for a promotion before they start leading. KEY TOPICS DISCUSSED:Why rank grants authority but not leadership, and the difference between the twoCulture by design versus culture by default, and what happens when leaders leave culture to chanceHow to build change from the middle of an organization by working with early adopters instead of trying to convince everyone at onceWhy "everything is green" reporting should worry a leader more than it comforts oneWhat it means to get out of the office: riding along, training with your people, learning the job from the ground upHow Chris's own mistakes and uncertainty as a young leader shaped the leader he becameWhy a healthy culture is one of the strongest recruitment and retention tools an agency hasINSIGHTS FROM THE CONVERSATION: Chris made a case that leadership starts long before anyone pins on a badge or a stripe. Waiting for the title is the wrong strategy. He also pushed back on the idea that a leader can understand an organization from behind a desk. His answer to reading an agency's real condition was blunt: go find out for yourself, in person, without the rank showing. On trust, Chris was direct about the danger of an organization where nobody tells the boss bad news. If every report comes back green, that is not evidence things are fine. It is often evidence people are afraid to say otherwise, and a leader steering by false readings will not see the iceberg coming. He closed with a simple answer to a hard question: what should policing never stop doing? Caring. Everything else in this conversation, the culture work, the trust building, the willingness to admit mistakes, comes back to that one word. KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR LISTENERS:Audit the gap between your agency's stated values and your own daily behavior. That gap is your culture, whether you intended it or not.Do not try to convince the whole organization at once. Find your early adopters and let their results do the persuading.If everyone tells you things are fine, ask why. Build channels where people can safely tell you when they are not.Spend time outside your office, in uniform-optional settings, doing the work your people do. You cannot lead what you do not understand.Treat your own mistakes and uncertainty as material, not liabilities. Vulnerability, handled honestly, builds more trust than the appearance of having it all figured out.ABOUT CHRIS HSIUNG: Chris Hsiung currently serves as Undersheriff with the San Mateo County Sheriff's Office, a role he stepped back into in November 2025 to support Sheriff Ken Binder during a period of organizational rebuilding. He is a retired police chief with more than 30 years of public safety experience in the San Francisco Bay Area, most of it with the Mountain View Police Department, where he worked as a detective and SWAT team member before being appointed chief in 2020. Chris is a founding board member and Executive Director of The Curve, a national nonprofit he co-founded with Simon Sinek and a network of police chiefs and sheriffs to modernize leadership development in policing. He co-chairs the IACP Human and Civil Rights Committee and holds board advisory roles with the University of Virginia Center for Public Safety and Justice, the Future Policing Institute, and the Crisis Ready Institute. He is a nationally recognized speaker and writer on organizational culture and adaptive leadership. RESOURCES MENTIONED:The Curve (thecurve.org) Hey there! Send us a message. Who else should we be talking to? What topics are important? Use FanMail to connect! Let us know! Contact us: [email protected] Website: www.copdocpodcast.com If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at [email protected]
August 27, 202656min
Number 2: Dr. Robin Engel, Ohio State University
The CopDoc Podcast - Season 10 - Episode 174 Unlock the secret to transforming police leadership from the front lines. Dr. Robin Engel shares how dedicated research and real-world experience are reshaping police training and community trust—yet the journey is anything but easy. In this powerful conversation, Robin reveals how her personal history fuels her relentless drive to improve policing—highlighting pivotal moments like her role in Cincinnati’s reform after a tragic officer-involved shooting. You’ll discover her innovative approach to data-driven policing, the critical importance of first-line supervisors, and why understanding and empowering the backbone of police organizations can prevent crises before they happen. We break down: How accreditation standards and evidence-based practices guide meaningful reformThe role of a national consortium, CAPS, in strengthening frontline supervision across diverse agenciesWhy a police officer’s most vital asset is the support from their superior, and how training gaps undermine safety and moraleThe surprising insights from body cam analysis, AI, and administrative data that actually improve decision-making in the fieldRobin’s leadership lessons on uniting community, academia, and police during moments of crisisThere’s a stark warning here: neglecting frontline supervisors and evidence-based strategies leaves departments vulnerable to the chaos of the next crisis. Conversely, building a culture of continuous learning and local leadership means resilient, safer communities. Robin’s heartfelt story of overcoming skepticism and her unwavering commitment to impactful reform is an essential listen for anyone determined to make policing better. Perfect for police officers, administrators, researchers, and community advocates eager to innovate and bridge the divide between theory and practice. Robin Engel, a renowned professor at Ohio State University and a leader in policing reform, exemplifies the power of knowledge turned into action, making this episode a vital blueprint for meaningful change. Hey there! Send us a message. Who else should we be talking to? What topics are important? Use FanMail to connect! Let us know! Contact us: [email protected] Website: www.copdocpodcast.com If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at [email protected] Hey there! Send us a message. Who else should we be talking to? What topics are important? Use FanMail to connect! Let us know! Contact us: [email protected] Website: www.copdocpodcast.com If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at [email protected]
July 07, 202659min
Number 3: Dr. Heather Glogolich, Captain, NJ Instititue of Technology Police
The CopDoc Podcast - Season 9 - Episode 169 EPISODE SUMMARY: Steve Morreale sits down with Captain Dr. Heather Glogolich of the NJIT Police Department in Newark, New Jersey, for a candid, deeply personal, and professionally rich conversation about what it means to lead in policing today. Heather brings more than 22 years of law enforcement experience, an EdD focusing on domestic violence and higher education, and a hard-won perspective on what it takes not just to survive in a male-dominated profession, but to thrive in it and bring others along. Heather speaks openly about her journey from the Morris County Sheriff's Office to patrol officer, lieutenant, and now captain, including having to sue her agency to secure a promotion she had earned. Rather than letting that experience define her bitterness, she channeled it into a commitment to mentorship and transformational leadership. Her story is one of accountability, growth, and choosing to lead with love, even when the institution made that difficult. The conversation ranges widely, from the real reasons women remain underrepresented in law enforcement leadership, to the operational risks of empathy, to why she believes the first day on the job should include leadership training. Heather challenges comfortable assumptions, pushes back thoughtfully on conventional DEI narratives, and delivers a message that will resonate with anyone trying to grow as a leader, regardless of rank, gender, or years on the job. KEY TOPICS DISCUSSED:How Heather's path from the Morris County Sheriff's Office to NJIT shaped her leadership philosophyWomen in policing leadership, the 30x30 initiative, and the real reasons representation remains lowBalancing being a great cop and a great parent without sacrificing eitherHer personal experience as a survivor of domestic violence and how that shaped her doctoral researchThe difference between sympathy and empathy, and why empathetic policing carries operational riskSuing her agency to earn a promotion and what she did with the chip on her shoulderCulture change within your sphere of control when you cannot change the whole organization"Lead with love," servant leadership, and transformational leadership in practiceWhy the first day on the job should include leadership trainingHow to mentor others while still seeking mentorship yourself, including her work with Simon Sinek's curve.orgHey there! Send us a message. Who else should we be talking to? What topics are important? Use FanMail to connect! Let us know! Contact us: [email protected] Website: www.copdocpodcast.com If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at [email protected]
April 29, 202648min
Number 4: Cyndee Woolley - C2 Communications
Season 9 - Episode 166 - The CopDoc Podcast Hey there! Send us a message. Who else should we be talking to? What topics are important? Use FanMail to connect! Let us know! Contact us: [email protected] Website: www.copdocpodcast.com If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at [email protected]
February 10, 202653min
Number 5: Chief Jeremy Story: Building Leaders, Telling Stories, and Changing Policing in Las Cruces, New Mexico
Season 9 - Episode 166 - The CopDoc Podcast What does it take to lead a police department through tragedy, transformation, and tremendous change? Chief Jeremy Story of the Las Cruces Police Department in New Mexico knows firsthand. A Marine Corps veteran who served in Iraq, Jeremy joined policing in 2007 after choosing family over a military career. He rose through the ranks touching nearly every division—SWAT commander, K-9 handler, gang unit sergeant, training director, and deputy chief—before becoming chief at a younger age than he expected. In this powerful conversation, Chief Story talks about: Leadership That Teaches: How he runs a command staff book club (yes, really) and why teaching is a critical part of being a chief The Toughest Year: Losing the department's first officer in the line of duty in 96 years, then losing their first officer to suicide two months later—and what they learned about officer wellness Evidence-Based Policing: Implementing stratified policing to make proactive work as normal as answering 911 calls Training Investment: Why he sent a patrol officer to a three-week leadership course and how the department nearly doubled the state's required academy hours Telling the Story: Speaking to hostile crowds, correcting false narratives, and why chiefs must educate the public Humility & Vulnerability: Sharing his biggest mistake with academy recruits and why admitting failures builds trust Preparing the Next Generation: How Las Cruces PD rotates officers through specialized units for a month to prepare them for promotion Civilianization Done Right: Using civilians for everything that doesn't require a badge—and why their legal advisor and former news anchor PIO are game-changers Chief Story is direct, thoughtful, and unafraid to challenge the status quo. He's a thought leader who believes the majority is rational—if you give them the right information. He's building something special in the New Mexico desert. Whether you're a new supervisor, a seasoned chief, or someone considering a career in law enforcement, this episode offers invaluable lessons on leadership, resilience, and what it really takes to be a police chief in 2026. Hey there! Send us a message. Who else should we be talking to? What topics are important? Use FanMail to connect! Let us know! Contact us: [email protected] Website: www.copdocpodcast.com If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at [email protected]
February 01, 20261h