Dr. Johnny Drain is a materials scientist turned fermentation obsessive, flavour innovator, and co-founder of the cocoa-free chocolate company pushing the industry to rethink everything it thought it knew about cacao.

Johnny’s one of those rare thinkers who can sit comfortably in the worlds of cutting-edge science and high-end hospitality. He’s worked with some of the most boundary-pushing restaurants and bars on the planet, helping them unlock new flavours, reduce waste, and harness the incredible power of microbes. His new book, Adventures in Fermentation, is part manifesto, part manual, part love-letter to the invisible life that shapes what we eat and drink.

In this episode, we get into the evolution of chocolate, the future of fermentation, how microbes actually make flavour, why pasteurisation isn’t the enemy, what gut science is really telling us, and what a “sound-tuned” ferment might taste like. It’s a conversation about flavour, sustainability, identity, and the weird, wonderful magic of transformation.

Settle in — this is a fascinating deep dive with one of the most interesting flavour thinkers working today.

Where to find Johnny:
Website: drjohnnydrain.com

Book: Adventures in Fermentation (available now in print + audiobook)

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In this episode, Richard Seale of Foursquare Distillery joins me for a fast-moving deep dive into the history, culture and technology of rum — from 17th-century Barbados to the modern distillery.Key Topics:Is Barbados the birthplace of rum?Richard explains why the island is the true origin of cultural rum-making — not because it was “first”, but because it produced the earliest consequential, documented rum industry with skilled distillers, equipment, trade routes and scale. Sugar, the Dutch, and the rise of an industryWe explore how Dutch traders brought Brazilian sugar technology, how Barbados’ wind and water resources made large-scale production possible, and how early planters rapidly adopted boiling, milling and distillation methods. Early rum wasn’t crudeContrary to modern assumptions, 17th-century rum was sophisticated: spontaneous fermentations managed with skimmings and dunder, double distillation in copper, and a deep practical understanding of acidity and microbial balance. Export markets and the fall from dominanceBarbados supplied the American colonies with vast volumes of rum until war, revolution and hurricanes collapsed its export market — paving the way for Jamaica and others to dominate. The sugar industry’s long arcRichard traces the rise, centralisation and 20th-century collapse of Barbados sugar, from hundreds of estates to the single remaining factory today. The double retort pot stillA highlight of the conversation: why the double retort became the Caribbean’s signature still. Richard explains its structure, how low wines and high wines recycling works, and why it produces high proof, clean separations and excellent ester development. Batch vs continuous distillationWe cut through common myths: pot stills versus continuous stills, why “hybrid still” is a misnomer, why strength doesn’t equal flavour loss, and how batch and continuous distillation differ fundamentally in chemistry and output.

Jeff Morgenthaler has been a defining voice in the bar world for more than two decades. Bartender, blogger, and author, he’s shaped modern drinks culture through his long-running blog — still one of the most valuable resources on bar technique — his years at Portland’s much-missed Clyde Common, and his influential writing, including The Bar Book. Today he continues to travel, teach, and inspire, sharing clear, grounded insight into every corner of cocktail craft.

Jeff played a part in my own development early on, too. His blend of logic, humour, and precision helped validate the path taken by so many of us, and his influence on the industry — direct and indirect — is larger than most realise.

Although Jeff and I have known of each other for nearly twenty years, this was our first time sitting down together. The conversation ranged widely across the landscape of bars, technique, and drinks culture.

In this episode you’ll hear how Jeff found his way behind the bar, why baijiu deserves more appreciation, how to make your own cola, the early-2000s figures who shaped both our careers, how he riffs on eggnog, the common mistakes people make when batching syrups (and how his tools can fix them), what it’s really like to write a book, our thoughts on the World’s 50 Best Bars, what defines a truly great bar, and plenty more.

www.jeffreymorgenathaler.com

In this episode of The Curious Bartender Podcast, we welcome Jota Tanaka, Master Blender for Kirin’s Fuji Gotemba Distillery and Executive Fellow, Kirin Whisky. His career spans brewing, winemaking, American bourbon and Japanese whisky.

Jota joined Kirin Distillery Co. in 1988 and after roles in Japan and the United States, including a period at Four Roses Distillery where he helped launch the Small Batch range, he returned to Japan and became Master Blender of Kirin Whisky in 2017.

We explore his career, the story of Fuji Gotemba at the foot of Mount Fuji, and the evolving world of Japanese whisky including its history, methods, sensibilities, controversies, consumption and future.

Fuji Gotemba Distillery bio: https://www.fujigotemba-distillery.com/en/takumi/01/

Camper English is a San Francisco–based drinks writer and educator, best known for his long-running website Alcademics.com, an invaluable resource for bartenders and drinks enthusiasts alike. He’s the author of Doctors and Distillers: The Remarkable Medicinal History of Beer, Wine, Spirits, and Cocktails (2022) and The Ice Book.I sat down with Camper recently in San Francisco to talk about the city’s distinctive bar scene — from its historic haunts to its cutting-edge cocktail bars. We then dive into the fascinating world of ice (a subject Camper has explored more deeply than anyone), discuss Doctors and Distillers, and wrap up with a conversation about mineral water — including how to make your own.Doctors & Distillers - https://alcademics.com/doctors-and-distillers-the-remarkable-medicinal-history-of-beer-wine-spirits-and-cocktails/The Ice Book - https://alcademics.com/the-ice-book-by-camper-english/📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/📚 I've written quite a few books on spirits and cocktails - https://www.thecuriousbartender.com/

Harold McGee is a man that requires no introduction if you are someone who has worked in food and drink in any capacity at all. In 1984 he published McGee On Food & Cooking and brought the science and technology of cooking and flavour to the masses. A second edition in 2004 served as the practical manual for any chef worth their salt, and elevated Harold to the status of godfather - or perhaps even god - of culinary science. More recently, he published a book called Nose Dive, which investigates aroma and smell, which is a topic we explore during our conversationAlso on the menu:Why humans enjoy bitterness, how herbs have co-opted us, how salt makes food more delicious, how water opens up the aromas of spirits, what happens when wine matures in the bottle, why some drinks have ‘length’, how evolution and culture have shaped our flavour preferences, what we mean when we say a drink or dish is balanced, what the next frontiers of flavour science look like, and much more.

📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/📚 I've written quite a few books on spirits and cocktails - https://www.thecuriousbartender.com/

Today I am speaking with Serge Valentin. Serge is a whisky expert and the founder of a whiskyfun.com - which is widely regarded as the go-to review repository for whisky tasting notes and scores on the internet. Over the past 23 years Serge has tasted over 20,000 bottles ranging from entry level staples to some of the rarest in the world. His scoring system has become the de facto benchmark by which many measure the quality of a dram, and Serge has become a cult hero amongst the world’s whisky geeks.

On the episode we discuss tasting whisky - personal preferences over objective goodness, the hubris of blind tasting, whether whisky is too serious, the role of independent bottlers, how whisky changes in the bottle, recent exceptional whiskies, weird whisky, the founding of whiskyfun.com, the importance of education, changing tastes, whisky myths, and much more.

In today’s episode, I’m joined by one of the true mavericks of American distilling — Lance Winters of St. George Spirits. This is a journey that begins in the orchard, with pears, quinces and raspberries destined for eau de vie, and stretches all the way to absinthe, American gin, rum and even highballs built on umeshu and Baller whisky.

We trace the roots of St. George back to Jörg Rupf and the early days of California craft distilling in the 1980s, and follow Lance’s arrival and the evolution of a house defined not by category, but by philosophy. Along the way we dive into the uncompromising art of eau de vie — fruit selection, fermentation, and the stills that shape every spirit they make — and ask how that sensibility influences whisky, rum and beyond.

From jalapeño vodka to acorn spirits, from dill lactones in oak to the question of consistency versus expression, this conversation is about more than products. It’s about place, curiosity, and a willingness to let flavour lead. We explore American gin through Californian botanicals, the rebirth of absinthe, the origins of Baller, the future of eau de vie, and where all this innovation leaves the legacy of St. George.

This is not a tour through a portfolio — it’s a look inside a creative engine.

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Charles Denby is the co-founder and CEO of Berkeley Yeast, a company that’s reimagining fermentation through genetics. With a PhD in molecular and cell biology from UC Berkeley, Charles and his team are using genetic science not to replace brewing tradition, but to enhance it — designing new yeast strains that can transform how beer, wine, and even spirits are made.In this conversation, we dive deep into the biology that underpins flavour. We unpack what yeast actually is, why it produces alcohol, and how its metabolism creates the esters and aromatics we love in drinks. Charles explains how fermentation conditions shape flavour, how lager and ale yeasts differ, and what really happens inside the tank at every stage of fermentation.From there, we go microscopic — exploring yeast genetics, DNA modification, and the molecular tools that make it all possible. Charles shares how Berkeley Yeast engineers strains to enhance tropical aromas in hazy IPAs, introduce new layers of bitterness, or even make brewing non-alcoholic and healthier beers more efficient.We also discuss the broader implications of this technology — from applications in wine and spirits to the stigma surrounding GMOs and what “responsible innovation” really means in the drinks world.

This is a fascinating deep dive into the invisible world that drives fermentation — and how science is quietly shaping the future of flavour.If you like this content please consider subscribing.

00:00 Introduction

02:34 Charles’ Background in Science & Origins of Berkeley Yeast
10:29 What is Yeast? Why Does it Produce Alcohol? Yeast Metabolism
16:49 Fermentation Conditions, Ester Metabolism
22:04 Yeast Species: Lager & Ale Yeasts
24:24 Stages of Fermentation
28:34 Nutrients for Fermentation, Amino Acid Synthesis, Diacetyl Production
36:34 Why Is Beer Fizzy? Production of CO2 During Fermentation
37:34 Yeast Genetics, Cell Biology, Evolutionary Biology
42:29 Modifying Yeast DNA, Molecular Scissors, Polymerase Chain Reaction
55:54 The Complex Web of Genetic Modification
1:01:14 Testing Yeast in Berkeley Yeast’s Microbrewery
1:04:04 Comparing Hazy IPA Yeasts, Creating Tropical Aromas
1:09:19 Engineering Yeast for Bitterness
1:12:04 Brewing Non-Alcohol Beer, Vacuum Distillation: Method, Downsides
1:16:54 Brewing Beer for Health
1:22:17 Applications in Wine: Flavour, Low-Alcohol, Cultural Knock on Effect
1:26:14 Residual Sugar in No/Low Alcohol Ferments
1:27:59 Applications in Spirits: Flavour & Efficiency
1:30:49 The Berkeley Yeast Business Model, Lifespan of Yeast Cultures, Competition
1:35:44 Overcoming the Stigma of GMO, Responsible Technology, Defining GMO in Beer

Megs Miller is a bartender, educator, and all-round agave obsessive — whose journey has taken her across multiple continents but most recently to Mexico City, where she runs Salón de Agave, a tasting room dedicated to exploring the depth and diversity of Mexico’s native spirits.In this episode, you can expect to learn about agave species and taxonomy, how different agave species affect the mind and body — Megs and her co-worker Sophie have been conducting a two-year experiment on this — insights into retailing agave spirits in Mexico, the nuances of terroir and regional flavour mapping, and the joy of glass-matured mezcal.We also dive into sotol, pulque, and the evolving conversation around responsibility, sourcing, and politics in agave spirits. From the cheesiness of Inaequidens to the pine forests of Chihuahua, and from women’s progress in the industry to the cultural storytelling behind each bottle — this is a deep and generous look at the Mexican spirit.Megs was so generous, in fact, that we tasted around 25 different distillates — and as someone who’s tasted quite a few in my time, I wasn’t surprised to find that there were many amazing surprises. I wasn’t able to write down or document them all, but if you’re interested in anything in particular, I suggest giving Salón de Agave a follow on Instagram or booking a session with them next time you’re in Mexico City. It’s awesome.https://salondeagave.com/

00:00 Intro

02:25 Meg’s Trip to Durango
06:25 Agave Species and Taxonomy, Tequila
11:25 How Different Agaves Affect Your Body, Agave Spirits Distillation
15:35 Retail of Agave Spirits in Mexico
16:35 Terpenes in Agave Spirits, Health
18:55 Moving to Mexico – Opening Salón de Agave
26:25 Glass-Matured Mezcal, Pechuga, Salt & Lime
37:25 Agave Education, Price & Value
45:05 Mapping Flavour Around Mexico, Terroir
49:55 Tasting Maguey Inaequidens Agave, Cheesiness, Narcos
56:45 Back to Durango, Maguey Lampranillo, Label Design
1:00:35 Tasting Vino del Norte from Pechotierra, Pulque Production, Appreciating Pulque
1:06:40 The Evolving Flavour of Agave Spirits, Appreciating Agave Spirits, Glassware
1:08:15 Sotol, Dasylirion
1:10:32 Texture and Mouthfeel in Agave Spirits, Tuning Your Flavour Perception, Context in Tasting
1:19:25 Mezcal Labelling, DO, Rebellion, World Agave Spirits, Mezcal Politics, Responsible Sourcing
1:28:25 Chihuahua Sotol, Pine Forests, Cultural Terroir
1:31:42 Women in Agave Spirits: Challenges, Progress
1:40:25 Guerrero Cupreata, Inconsistency, Scarcity, Bottle Killing
1:45:15 Distilado de Pulque from Salmiana, Mango Distillate
1:48:45 Identifying Agave by Smell: Inaequidens & Salmiana, San Luis Potosí Agave Cooking
1:51:45 Challenging Preconceptions in Agave Spirits, Smokiness
1:54:25 Oaxaca, Small-Batch Cupreata, Cowhide Fermentation
1:56:35 Tasting Notes, Describing Flavour, Context