The Deeper Pulse with Candice Schutter

January is Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month, and this week Candice welcomes a very special guest. Nikki G is a Certified Trauma Recovery Coach, co-host of the Surviving The Black Church podcast, and a vocal advocate for spiritual and religious abuse survivors. Nikki shares briefly about her personal history growing up in a narcissistic family system, time spent in five different cults, and her personal path of healing. She speaks about the subtle yet sometimes critical difference between spiritual and religious trauma, then offers guidance around how best to seek support and healing. Nikki generously walks us through a brief history of The Black Church, speaking to how intergenerational trauma must be a consideration when supporting Black folks who are recovering from spiritual and religious abuse. The term ‘church hurt’ is discussed; specifically how in Black Communities, when applied too broadly, it leads to the glorification of suffering and implicitly encourages abuse survivors to stay-put and endure. Candice shares suffer-in-silence parallels in the wellness world, and the two discuss how even though the gaslighting shows up differently, it ultimately results in a similar outcome - spiritual bypassing and a disconnection from self. Nikki speaks to the many invisible wounds folks grapple with upon exiting a high-demand religion or spiritual community and then describes what post-cult ‘rehab’ might look like. She shares how coming home to her body has been so pivotal in her healing process; and Candice asks for Nikki’s input on the unique challenge of healing from trauma that occurs within the space of an embodiment practice. The episode wraps with a teaser into another upcoming convo with Nikki that will be recorded later this month, focusing on how religious ideologies have been systematically shaping American politics for decades. This is a rich conversation; be sure to listen to the end!

Nikki G. is a Certified Trauma Recovery Coach  who helps survivors recover and thrive after Religious Trauma & Cult involvement. She is also survivor of multiple narcissistic relationships, religious trauma, and several cultic communities. Nikki is the CEO of Nikki G Speaks LLC, which provides survivors with individual coaching, online community, and psychoeducation related to religious trauma, narcissistic abuse, and cult involvement. Nikki is a co-host of the podcast “Surviving the Black Church” where she and her co-hosts delve into conversations regarding religious trauma in the Black Church. She is also the co-founder of The Black Religious Trauma Recovery Network and she sits on the board of directors for Tears of Eden, a non-profit organization that supports survivors who have experienced abuse in the evangelical community. Web: nikkigspeaks.com | IG: @nikki_g_speaks

Referenced In This Episode:

• Surviving The Black Church Podcast
• The Black Religious Trauma Recovery Network
• Tears of Eden

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

This week, we’re keeping our finger on the pulse of diet ‘cult’ure. Our guest is a former affiliate of 'the Org' and a valued contributor in the Deconstructing Dogma series over on Patreon. Susan McCulley recently joined Candice for heart-to-heart, and we’re sharing the first half of the convo here on the main feed. In 2016, Susan wrote a powerful essay about the double-life she was living as a holistic fitness instructor touting ‘body love’ who was secretly struggling with body acceptance and a lifetime of disordered eating. You’ll hear Susan read excerpts from this remarkable and revealing piece where she shares 'snapshots' from her life in a body - ie. the calorie book she discovered at 10 years old & why even as a grown-ass woman she didn’t think to fire her “shitty shitty doctor.” She & Candice discuss the subtle-yet-critical differences between restriction and genuine self-care, how shame and perfectionism keep us from normalizing body image struggles, and the lip service they each gave (but didn't fully embody) while teaching the 'Org' practice. Candice reveals how she’s actively shifting the language she uses in her classes, and Susan offers up the personal mantra she now uses when she catches herself judging/comparing bodies. The two get real about day-to-day capacity when it comes to challenging diet-culture norms, and then reference the work of Kate Manne and a radical reframe they both love - body reflexivity. Finally, and paving the way for conversations that will drop later in the series, Susan shares a few ways that she is using her thin privilege to actively support folks living in larger bodies.

Susan McCulley has been a mindful movement leader, artist, and writer since 2000. She is the creator of The Age of Becoming: Embodied Practices Empowering Women over 50 community which offers free movement practices & workshops, connection & community and more. Her 30-Lesson audio course, Building Balance in Your Body & Life was published on the Insight Timer meditation app in early 2022. She has two illustrated books, Buddha Cat: Learning Awareness, Presence & Self-Care from a Teacher Who Sometimes Barfs on the Bed and Octabusy: Letting Go in a Sea of Doing. Her teaching schedule, classes, books and art are available at susanmcculley.com. 

Referenced In This Episode:

• Susan's Blog Post
• Join Patreon to hear Part 2 with Susan
• You Can't Fight Misogyny Without Fighting Fat Phobia - The Burnt Toast Podcast
• Unshrinking: How to Face Fatphobia, by Kate Manne

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

Deconstructing Dogma is a video bonus series hosted exclusively on Patreon. Patrons of The Deeper Pulse have unlimited access to these weekly extras in exchange for their support of the podcast. Patreon donations help keep the main feed of this pod ad-free.

This week’s Patreon Preview features excerpts from DD #50 with Stacy Parish. Stacy was on the main feed back in March 2023, and she's back to share about how complex trauma shaped her culty experiences - as well as her ability to recognize the warning signs before wading in too deep.

Content Warning >> This episode includes reference to sexual trauma, familial gaslighting, and emotional abuse.

In the full-length episode over on Patreon:

• Stacy shares how she got involved with the Org & why she chose to step away after completing her second level of training.
• She reveals what it was like stepping into the practice as a sexual trauma survivor; how the practice felt like a godsend that gifted her "a birthright that I'd been robbed of."
• She opens up about how, even as a teacher on 'the fringe' she experienced red flags; sharing examples.

And then, she bravely shares about her family of origin & how it may have shaped her susceptibility to gaslighting and undue influence:

• You'll learn about the since-disbanded False Memory Syndrome Foundation, their VERY troubling history (read more about it here), and the gaslighting that Stacy endured as a result of a systemic campaign to silence victims of childhood sexual abuse.
• Stacy tells us what it was like being gaslit by her parents & how/why psychological survival meant normalizing the tension of two painfully opposing truths.
• She reveals how her original wounds may have inspired her to incessantly seek out surrogate family & a sense of safety and belonging. And we discuss how common this yearning can be.

And finally, Stacy shares:

• How art and storytelling has helped her to liberate her voice.
• What it's been like for her to step into the spotlight & live her truth out loud.

Stacy Parish has a BS degree in art education from Minnesota State University, Mankato and spent 11 years in broadcasting — as a professional disc jockey, voice talent and copywriter. She has been professionally involved in education and communication for almost  years.  A born storyteller, her popular podcast “Full Spirals” brings together two of her passions: using her voice as a vehicle for change and promoting the arts as tools for healing. A working local artist, she is also employed in the paint and sip industry as an artist, and her original paintings have been taught to tens of thousands of people nationwide. fullspirals.com | @boomstacy

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

We’re back with the second half of our conversation with Tara Wike. (If you missed Part 1, you'll wanna circle back and start there). In the lead-in, Candice reads from listener comments & lays the foundation for Part 2. Picking up where we left off last week, Tara shares how changing her ‘visual diet’ is expanding her definition of beauty; and also, the culty collateral damage done when we critique our bodies publicly. This leads into a discussion around mixed messages at ‘the Org’ and how - despite loads of lip service - practitioners are in no way immune to the influence of diet culture; then Tara highlights how generational differences around body acceptance may be at play. The social determinants of health are discussed, as well as the danger of insisting that wellness is in all cases ‘an inside job’ — especially when systemic barriers and biases are so prevalent. Tracy asks us to take a critical look at ‘emotional eating’ — is this always a bad thing? (Spoiler: not so much.) And then Tara shares how recovery from a brain injury revealed to her the insidiousness of diet culture. We touch upon the body positivity and body neutrality movements, and then Tara shares how she’s doing her part to try and shift attitudes within her own social spheres. This is an important episode in the series line-up; one that you won’t want to miss!

Tara Wike (she/her) is an American expat living in Denmark with her husband and son. She is a leader in the design organization at The LEGO Group, and moonlights teaching Org-inspired movement classes, having recently left the Org after decades of practice. In both work and private life, Tara is passionate about creating inclusive products and experiences. Her recent recovery from disordered eating has inspired her to actively support body diversity and fight anti-fat bias, both in fitness spaces and in the broader culture.

LINKS:

• Dear Sugars Podcast | Ep: Trust Your Body with Dana Sturtevant & Hilary Kinavey
• Maintenance Phase Podcast w/ Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes
• Dieting Does Not Work, UCLA Researchers Report
• Aubrey Gordon on WCDHT Podcast
• Food Psych Podcast w/ Christy Harrison

Also referenced in this episode:

• Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia, book by Sabrina Strings
• Anti-Diet: Reclaim Your Time, Money, Well-Being, and Happiness Through Intuitive Eating, book by Christy Harrison
• Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat, book by Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, & Julian Walker
• The Wellness Trap: Break Free from Diet Culture, Disinformation, and Dubious Diagnoses, and Find Your True Well-Being, book by Christy Harrison

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

Plans have changed and the ‘cult’ure series isn’t wrapping just yet! Back after another long break, Candice shares why she’s decided to keep at it; then she lays the foundation for this week’s convo. Originally recorded as a Patreon bonus, Candice and wingwoman, Tracy Stamper, welcome special guest Tara Wike to the pod for a two-part deconstruction of diet ‘cult’ure. In Part 1, Tara shares a bit about her personal background, time spent teaching and training with ‘the Org,’ and the wake-up call that led her into a path of recovery around disordered eating. Topics discussed include: healthism, orthorexia, intuitive eating, how systemic biases shape definitions of 'health', and how Tara is now bringing a Health At Every Size (HAES) approach to her personal and professional endeavors. And stick around to the end, because Tara’s wisdom is timely. Candice expresses some in-real-time raw emotion, sharing a peek into her own disordered eating and revealing how Tara’s honesty & openness has been a real wake-up call. Part 2 drops next week.

Tara Wike (she/her) is an American expat living in Denmark with her husband and son. She is a leader in the design organization at The LEGO Group, and moonlights teaching Org-inspired movement classes, having recently left the Org after decades of practice. In both work and private life, Tara is passionate about creating inclusive products and experiences. Her recent recovery from disordered eating has inspired her to actively support body diversity and fight anti-fat bias, both in fitness spaces and in the broader culture.

LINKS:

• Isabel Foxen Duke
• Dear Sugars Podcast | Ep: Trust Your Body
• The Center for Body Trust
• ASDAH - Health at Every Size (HAES)
• Diet Culture & Body Image - The Renfrew Center
• Why You Gain Belly Fat After Menopause (& Why It's Ok)

Also referenced in this episode:

• We Have to Stop Thinking of Being ‘Healthy’ as Being Morally Better, Aubrey Gordon
• The Body Is Not an Apology: The Power of Radical Self-Love, Sonya Renee Taylor
• Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat, Beres, Remski, & Walker
• Health At Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight, Lindo Bacon
• Intuitive Eating, A Revolutionary Anti-Diet Approach, Elyse Resch and Evelyn Tribole

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

The 'cult'ure series is scheduled to wrap next week. In the meantime, here's another Patreon Sampler & sneak peek at the Deconstructing Dogma bonus series that will be streaming through the new year over on Patreon. There are currently 40+ bonus episodes available to patrons of the pod, and this sampler features some of our favorite moments from recent releases.

In this Patreon Sampler, you'll hear excerpts from:

• Frenemies: The Not-So-Fringe Reality, where Candice & Tracy unpack how top-down power dynamics have seemingly spread into 'Org' communities worldwide.
• Spirit Barbie: The Performance of Wellness - a one-hour deconstruction of the how we are socially conditioned to present ourselves in the world of wellness; ie. 'high talk', dieting, and detox culture.
• Maria Skinner once again joins Candice & Tracy, this time to take a critical look at The Law of Attraction. We trade personal stories and talk 'manifestation', channeling, and mindset vs. magical thinking. 
• Intimacy vs. Intensity - Candice shares about the helpful advice she once received from a therapist who was well-versed in relational dynamics at 'the Org.' She & Tracy unpack it a bit, then chat about the forced intimacy that is so often created in wellness training environments.
• Adi Goren returns for a bonus convo, this time to to deconstruct The Economy of 'the Org.' Adi invites us to examine how the business model of the company is a feudal system where the many work in service to those at the top; then we talk free labor and the challenges of moving on after leaving.

If you want more of what this episode has to offer, consider becoming a patron of the pod for as little as $5 a month. Patreon donations keep the podcast ad-free. If you're interested in learning more, visit patreon.com/thedeeperpulse.

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

Welcome to the second half of our two-part conversation with Adi Goren (recorded back in August). If you missed Part 1, you’re gonna want to circle back, because we’re picking up right where we left off! Last week, Adi shared a bit about her personal life, how she first discovered ‘the Org’, and her subsequent devotion to the practice. Part 2 opens as Adi reveals more about her relationship to ‘the Org’ CEO; how she saw him as a ‘father figure’ and how he groomed her for a role within the company. She shares what it was like working remotely from her home in Israel, fielding calls while trying to overlook the many red flags - ie: love bombing, high employee turnover, and teachers regularly calling in with worrisome requests. And then Adi bravely tells Tracy & I about the staff meeting that shattered her faith in the business and its leadership once and for all; sharing about the moment when she challenged the Org CEO, appalled by his dehumanizing rhetoric.  Unsure of how to transition away from the work she’d structured her entire life around, Adi held onto her job for another few months before being fired unjustly. She expresses what it was like stepping away; how she was sick with grief and how her classes doubled in size once she was no longer devoting all of her precious life force to someone else’s bottomline. Adi speaks candidly about what she’s learned from her experiences with the Org. She talks boundaries, and why she thinks she was personally vulnerable to exploitation and power-over abuse. Then, the three speak about how collective trauma may factor into:  why so many women gravitate toward the practice; why the vehicle of movement is so damn potent; and what happens when ‘joy’ becomes an addictive and dissociative escape. Coming together in collective cult recovery, we seek to answer to the question -  how do we heal from moral injury and reclaim a sense of autonomy (and agency) over our bodies and our lives?

Adi Goren is a former Org affiliate and experienced movement teacher who is developing what she and her community know as The Architecture of Movement. She manages a dance dojo in Israel, offering classes, workshops, and retreats in Israel and abroad. Adi qualified as an architect from the University of Cape Town, South Africa, where she lived for 18 years. She is also a single parent and has been studying the practice of Aikido since 2010.

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

The ‘cult’ure series is set to wrap in a few short weeks at which time main feed podcast production will be on hold indefinitely. But first, we have a final conversation to share with you. Back in August, Candice and good friend / wing woman, Tracy Stamper, sat down with former Org affiliate Adi Goren, who joined the pod from her home in Israel. This lengthy conversation was recorded prior to the unfolding crisis; as such, the intro to the episode, Candice speaks briefly to the unintended-yet-timely nature of this episode’s release. About 15 minutes in, Adi is introduced, and Tracy & Candice listen in as she bravely offers the first half of her story - sharing what it was like growing up in Israel and South Africa; about her early adult life a wife, mother, and an architect; and how it is she came to discover ‘the Org.’ Adi chose to devote herself to the business and the practice, saying in her own words: "My name and the Org became synonymous.  And it was my identity." For years, Adi taught classes, produced events, and helped to build a thriving Org community in Israel. After a few glorious years, things got complicated, thanks in part to the ‘producer program’ and communal discord resulting from a lack of integrity, leadership, and guidance at the top. Adi speaks candidly about her own confusion and about what she felt to be a threat to her very livelihood. She describes how, in early 2010, she reached out to the Org’s founder to request mediation and support only to be publicly shamed. Adi opens up about the understandable humiliation she felt and what happened when the Org CEO came to Israel to offer his support. It was the beginning of a pivotal relationship that would ultimately shape Adi’s future with the company. The episode wraps with a disturbing revelation that left both Tracy & Candice slack-jawed.

Adi Goren is a former Org affiliate and experienced movement teacher who is developing what she and her community know as The Architecture of Movement. She manages a dance dojo in Israel, offering classes, workshops, and retreats in Israel and abroad. Adi qualified as an architect from the University of Cape Town, South Africa, where she lived for 18 years. She is also a single parent and has been studying the practice of Aikido since 2010.

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

This week’s ‘cult’ure series release is a very special rollover from the Patreon-exclusive deconstructing dogma bonus series. Three former ‘Org’ affiliates join Candice for a panel discussion examining wellness-cult dynamics through the intersectional lens of gender and sexuality. Together they explore how mainstream socialization around the heteronormative gender binary is very often reinforced in spirituality and wellness spaces. In this conversation, LGBTQ+ perspectives are centered as guests share about their personal & professional experiences. Lainie invites us to look closely at language, and at how terms like 'masculine' & 'feminine' reinforce problematic stereotypes; and she shares briefly about her experience on the Org’s short-lived DEI Counsel. Troy initiates a discussion about why the Org's clothing line was/is so problematic and opens up about how an unwillingness to 'dress the part' - both literally and interpersonally - can limit professional advancement. Maxx speaks to how pressures around gender expression started way back in childhood and were reinforced in wellness spaces; and he celebrates younger generations who are providing to language for his long-lived life experiences. We chat about how capitalism factors into systemic reinforcement of the gender binary and then share some full-belly laughs during a lively (and very revealing) discussion about homoerotic energy on the dance floor. What's that about really? This is an episode not to be missed.

Maxx Boyd is non binary, trans masculine, happily married, and a longtime friend. He was involved with the Org for roughly a decade, subbing for the Org's founders, while also teaching ongoing classes throughout the Portland metro area. Maxx still leads dance fitness classes and has since allowed their own teaching to evolve into something unique and self-defined. Maxx is also a non practicing LMT and part time customer service manager. But he spends most of his days lovingly looking after an active and playful toddler.

Troy McCall licensed with the Org in 2001 and was a devoted teacher and student for many years, teaching in a variety of locations worldwide. T separated from the practice in 2011 and is now a soccer player and coach in Boulder, Colorado. Troy also dances and performs with Streetside Dance and with NewBreed Dance Company and is studying Sport Analytics and Management at American University. T holds multiple master's degrees in Contemporary Performance, Buddhist Studies, and Soccer Coaching.

Lainie Magidsohn is queer, polyamorous, and a lifelong dancer and mover. She's a choreographer, collaborator, improviser, and teacher who is passionate about creating a safe space for movers of all ages, abilities, bodies, and genders to engage with their own unique dance. Lainie was involved with the Org for two decades and was also a part of the Org's short-lived Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Council, that was formed in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder and was disbanded less than two years later. Lainie is also a parent, a wedding officiant, a life drawing model, and an instructor with Dancing with Parkinsons in Toronto and across Canada online. 

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

This week, Candice welcomes Priscilla Eyles for a discussion on intersectional cult recovery. Priscilla, who comes to us from the UK, is a DEI/JEDI consultant who shares about their time spent in two different cults: Landmark, an LGAT offshoot of est, and OneTaste, a wellness organization that is currently under FBI investigation for sexual exploitation and forced labor practices. When Priscilla stepped away and began grappling with their back-to-back cult experiences, they immediately noticed how cult recovery spaces often overlook the perspectives of marginalized folks. As a neurodiverse, racialized, queer cult survivor, they have since become an intersectional anti-cult activist/advocate who centers the perspectives of multiply-marginalized survivors. Priscilla generously agreed to join the pod to help Candice and TDP listeners better understand how to respectfully platform marginalized voices - without being tokenistic or extractive. Priscilla speaks candidly about their own neurodiversity, how multiple marginalizations can complicate the process of cult recovery, and why culty groups can be so attractive to those who have been systematically marginalized. Victim blaming is once again discussed, only this time from an intersectional perspective. This is an eye-opening conversation, and a reminder than there really is no such thing as homogenous cult survivorship.

Priscilla Eyles (she/her, they/them) is passionate about enabling the social acceptance of multiply marginalized neurodivergent (ND) people and cult survivors like themselves, as well as increasing understanding of the great value of lived experience wisdom and the importance of trauma-informed approaches. As a cult survivor who is a biracial, ADHD/autistic (AuDHD), queer femme/AFAB (assigned female at birth), they are equally passionate about normalizing conversations around cult abuse and foregrounding how cults can prey on and retraumatize people like them. Priscilla was formerly a Project Coordinator managing an intersectional disability project and is a DEI/JEDI trainer and consultant specializing in neurodivergence in the workplace. with Resolve Evolve, who has trained in DEI practice with the Sarah Jane Academy.  As an intersectional ND & cult awareness advocate & activist, she has spoken at various major panel/campaign events and written for numerous publications/organizations as a freelance writer.

Twitter: @PriscillaEyles | Insta: @CulturalLiasons | Email: [email protected] 

Referenced in this episode:

• The Equality House - Topeka, KS
• BBC Interview - Me, my autism and cults
• Evvie Orman - YouTube
• Orgasm, Inc. - Netflix

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates.