The ‘cult’ure series is set to wrap in a few short weeks at which time main feed podcast production will be on hold indefinitely. But first, we have a final conversation to share with you. Back in August, Candice and good friend / wing woman, Tracy Stamper, sat down with former Org affiliate Adi Goren, who joined the pod from her home in Israel. This lengthy conversation was recorded prior to the unfolding crisis; as such, the intro to the episode, Candice speaks briefly to the unintended-yet-timely nature of this episode’s release. About 15 minutes in, Adi is introduced, and Tracy & Candice listen in as she bravely offers the first half of her story - sharing what it was like growing up in Israel and South Africa; about her early adult life a wife, mother, and an architect; and how it is she came to discover ‘the Org.’ Adi chose to devote herself to the business and the practice, saying in her own words: "My name and the Org became synonymous.  And it was my identity." For years, Adi taught classes, produced events, and helped to build a thriving Org community in Israel. After a few glorious years, things got complicated, thanks in part to the ‘producer program’ and communal discord resulting from a lack of integrity, leadership, and guidance at the top. Adi speaks candidly about her own confusion and about what she felt to be a threat to her very livelihood. She describes how, in early 2010, she reached out to the Org’s founder to request mediation and support only to be publicly shamed. Adi opens up about the understandable humiliation she felt and what happened when the Org CEO came to Israel to offer his support. It was the beginning of a pivotal relationship that would ultimately shape Adi’s future with the company. The episode wraps with a disturbing revelation that left both Tracy & Candice slack-jawed.

Adi Goren is a former Org affiliate and experienced movement teacher who is developing what she and her community know as The Architecture of Movement. She manages a dance dojo in Israel, offering classes, workshops, and retreats in Israel and abroad. Adi qualified as an architect from the University of Cape Town, South Africa, where she lived for 18 years. She is also a single parent and has been studying the practice of Aikido since 2010.

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This week’s ‘cult’ure series release is a very special rollover from the Patreon-exclusive deconstructing dogma bonus series. Three former ‘Org’ affiliates join Candice for a panel discussion examining wellness-cult dynamics through the intersectional lens of gender and sexuality. Together they explore how mainstream socialization around the heteronormative gender binary is very often reinforced in spirituality and wellness spaces. In this conversation, LGBTQ+ perspectives are centered as guests share about their personal & professional experiences. Lainie invites us to look closely at language, and at how terms like 'masculine' & 'feminine' reinforce problematic stereotypes; and she shares briefly about her experience on the Org’s short-lived DEI Counsel. Troy initiates a discussion about why the Org's clothing line was/is so problematic and opens up about how an unwillingness to 'dress the part' - both literally and interpersonally - can limit professional advancement. Maxx speaks to how pressures around gender expression started way back in childhood and were reinforced in wellness spaces; and he celebrates younger generations who are providing to language for his long-lived life experiences. We chat about how capitalism factors into systemic reinforcement of the gender binary and then share some full-belly laughs during a lively (and very revealing) discussion about homoerotic energy on the dance floor. What's that about really? This is an episode not to be missed.

Maxx Boyd is non binary, trans masculine, happily married, and a longtime friend. He was involved with the Org for roughly a decade, subbing for the Org's founders, while also teaching ongoing classes throughout the Portland metro area. Maxx still leads dance fitness classes and has since allowed their own teaching to evolve into something unique and self-defined. Maxx is also a non practicing LMT and part time customer service manager. But he spends most of his days lovingly looking after an active and playful toddler.

Troy McCall licensed with the Org in 2001 and was a devoted teacher and student for many years, teaching in a variety of locations worldwide. T separated from the practice in 2011 and is now a soccer player and coach in Boulder, Colorado. Troy also dances and performs with Streetside Dance and with NewBreed Dance Company and is studying Sport Analytics and Management at American University. T holds multiple master's degrees in Contemporary Performance, Buddhist Studies, and Soccer Coaching.

Lainie Magidsohn is queer, polyamorous, and a lifelong dancer and mover. She's a choreographer, collaborator, improviser, and teacher who is passionate about creating a safe space for movers of all ages, abilities, bodies, and genders to engage with their own unique dance. Lainie was involved with the Org for two decades and was also a part of the Org's short-lived Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Council, that was formed in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder and was disbanded less than two years later. Lainie is also a parent, a wedding officiant, a life drawing model, and an instructor with Dancing with Parkinsons in Toronto and across Canada online. 

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

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This week, Candice welcomes Priscilla Eyles for a discussion on intersectional cult recovery. Priscilla, who comes to us from the UK, is a DEI/JEDI consultant who shares about their time spent in two different cults: Landmark, an LGAT offshoot of est, and OneTaste, a wellness organization that is currently under FBI investigation for sexual exploitation and forced labor practices. When Priscilla stepped away and began grappling with their back-to-back cult experiences, they immediately noticed how cult recovery spaces often overlook the perspectives of marginalized folks. As a neurodiverse, racialized, queer cult survivor, they have since become an intersectional anti-cult activist/advocate who centers the perspectives of multiply-marginalized survivors. Priscilla generously agreed to join the pod to help Candice and TDP listeners better understand how to respectfully platform marginalized voices - without being tokenistic or extractive. Priscilla speaks candidly about their own neurodiversity, how multiple marginalizations can complicate the process of cult recovery, and why culty groups can be so attractive to those who have been systematically marginalized. Victim blaming is once again discussed, only this time from an intersectional perspective. This is an eye-opening conversation, and a reminder than there really is no such thing as homogenous cult survivorship.

Priscilla Eyles (she/her, they/them) is passionate about enabling the social acceptance of multiply marginalized neurodivergent (ND) people and cult survivors like themselves, as well as increasing understanding of the great value of lived experience wisdom and the importance of trauma-informed approaches. As a cult survivor who is a biracial, ADHD/autistic (AuDHD), queer femme/AFAB (assigned female at birth), they are equally passionate about normalizing conversations around cult abuse and foregrounding how cults can prey on and retraumatize people like them. Priscilla was formerly a Project Coordinator managing an intersectional disability project and is a DEI/JEDI trainer and consultant specializing in neurodivergence in the workplace. with Resolve Evolve, who has trained in DEI practice with the Sarah Jane Academy.  As an intersectional ND & cult awareness advocate & activist, she has spoken at various major panel/campaign events and written for numerous publications/organizations as a freelance writer.

Twitter: @PriscillaEyles | Insta: @CulturalLiasons | Email: [email protected] 

Referenced in this episode:

• The Equality House - Topeka, KS
• BBC Interview - Me, my autism and cults
• Evvie Orman - YouTube
• Orgasm, Inc. - Netflix

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

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Teruyo & Lennox are theatre artists in cult recovery, currently hard at work on a musical inspired by their personal experiences in a shamanic cult. They explore what it's like to break away from high-demand influence, while offering a socio-political deconstruction of the colonial headspace that informs it. Music from the play’s soundtrack is woven throughout this powerful conversation, which touches upon a whole helluva lot in an hour. Teruyo & Lennox describe how crafting a musical - both in storyline and soundtrack - enables them to give greater voice and vehicle to the trauma they’ve experienced. Teruyo shares: how their upbringing and mixed-racial identity primed them to 'cult hop' and spend sixteen years in devotion to their last cult; how the so-called 'Freedom Convoy' in January 2022 was the final straw that inspired them break free; and how their own internalized white supremacy kept them 'in' the cult and separate-from their Japanese heritage for most of their life. Lennox opens up about their own early in life conditioning, Baptist summer camps, and time spent in a coercive and controlling relationship prior to joining the shamanic cult the musical is based on. They invite us to challenge our collective hyper-fixation on narcissistic cult leaders, turning our attention instead toward understanding why it is that the 'spells' cultic leaders cast over us work so damn well. Music brings dimension to this conversation, as we dive even deeper into what it might actually mean to decolonize the work of cult recovery. How are our cult experiences microcosms of systemic oppression? And why is anti-colonial, anti-racism work so essential and relevant to holistic cult recovery? Teruyo & Lennox apply their neurodivergent artistry to these questions, and it results in what is perhaps this pod’s most unique and sound-rich conversation to date.

Teruyo (they/them) is a racialized queer, neurodiverse, non-binary theatre artist, anti-oppression activist and academic. Teruyo's encounter with cults and the aftermath of manipulative mind games have fueled their drive to delve into healing and reclaiming identity through anti-colonial and anti-racist cult recovery. Through their academic research and the creation and production of original plays and musical theatre, they aspire to amplify the marginalized voices of the global majority, foster socio-political change, and cultivate trauma-informed artistry.

Lennox (they/them) is a neurodiverse, non-binary, queer theatre artist. They've endured the clutches of multiple cults, ranging from religious and spiritual to white supremacy. Ditching society's expectations and cultural boundaries, they've fully embraced their love for writing musicals, giving toxic masculinity the finger. Their creative outlet? Crafting badass socio-political musical stories that resonate with their true calling. They're rewriting the rules and reclaiming their rightful place behind the instruments.

Guest Vocalists: Aleyah Erin Lennon & Carter Hickey

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This week, Candice sits down with Somatic Trauma Specialist, Magdalena Weinstein. Originally from Chile, Magdalena spent the first 17 years of her life living under the rule of an authoritarian dictatorship. In this episode, she shares her childhood experiences, family life, and what motivated her to immigrate to the US in 2004. Magdalena speaks very candidly about the challenges of being in immigrant in America, and about time spent in a series of traumatizing and controlling environments - dictatorship in her formative years that stoked an early hunger for autonomy; years spent as an Iyengar yoga student and teacher striving for whitewashed dominion over her body; and a decade of investment in a coaching program where she experienced mind control and ongoing racial micro-aggressions. She generously shares each of these stories with us, poignantly illustrating what all of these seemingly unrelated experiences have in common. In 2019, Magdalena trained as a trauma specialist. In the final third of the episode, she helps us understand how trauma related to control is stored in the body and what, both individually and collectively, we can do about it. She describes the differences between control and personal agency, particularly in terms of owning and choosing psychological and somatic states. Then, Magdalena calls on wellness practitioners to trade Western idealism for a more realistic and collective approach to the growing challenges we now face as humans.

Magdalena Weinstein, SEP (she/her), is a Somatic Trauma Specialist who offers trauma recovery interventions utilizing Somatic Experiencing®, Touch Skills, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, the Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP), Parts Work, and Biodynamic Craniosacral Therapy perspectives. Blending the fields of Somatics, Neurology, and Social Justice, she is committed to helping individuals and groups transition towards personal, ancestral, and collective trauma healing. Her specialties are developmental and complex trauma, C-PTSD, PTSD, chronic conditions, domestic violence, and sexual assault trauma, and social justice dynamics, including racial trauma, immigration trauma, and war trauma. Originally from Chile, she was born and raised in a Dictatorship for her first 17 years of life and immigrated to the USA in 2004.

She lives in a rural home in Mendocino, Northern California (on unceded Pomo Territory), with her husband, their two children, dogs, cats, and snakes. She has a private practice in her home studio, is an assistant at SE trainings, and is a member of the DEI committee at Somatic Experiencing International. She is also finishing the first year of Biodynamic Craniosacral Therapy Training.

Referenced In This Episode:

• Heather Cox Richardson - September 11, 2023
• Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World, by Naomi Klein
• Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, by Yuval Noah Harari

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

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Deconstructing Dogma is a video bonus series hosted exclusively on Patreon. Patrons of The Deeper Pulse have unlimited access to these weekly extras in exchange for their support of the podcast. Patreon donations help keep the main feed of this pod authentic and ad-free.

This week’s Patreon Preview features excerpts from bonus episodes DD #31 & #32 where former 'Org' trainer, Jill Pagano, shares about her time in the practice. The complete two-hour convo is available to monthly patrons of the pod. 

In it, Jill shares:

• What it's been like listening to the podcast & why she chose to step forward at this time. 
• How she became involved in 'the Org' practice + the grief, loss, and physical pain she experienced when she chose to step away.
• Her feelings about investing 13 of her prime earning years in the Org; she shares about the long-term impact on her and her family.

The three of us discuss:

• The financial realities of hosting trainings for the Org.
• How compliance and 'fawning for favor' in the training environment kept many out of the direct line of fire, but did emotional damage nonetheless. 
• The idea of "badmouthing" the practice and how infantilizing it is to be told what we can and cannot say; good-girl conditioning be damned!
• What a 'call to action' might actually look like when it comes to addressing culty dysfunction in the wellness industry at large. 
• And why the three of us agree that 'saviorship' isn't likely to come from within,

You can access the full convo at patreon.com/thedeeperpulse. 

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates.

As a lead-in to this week’s episode, Candice spends some time defining cultural appropriation, specifically in western spirituality and wellness spaces. Then things pick up where they left off last week, with the second half of a two-part conversation with artist, activist, and educator, Aleyah-Erin Lennon. Aleyah shares why she was so drawn into the world of wellness and contextualizes how she realized she had to step away. Spiritual appropriation and misuse of ‘the s-word’ (shamanism) is explored, along with how unconscious colonial entitlement can be so hard-wired that we, white folks, can become 'takers’. Aleyah offers a deeply compassionate approach to this topic, one that takes into account the cavernous spiritual hunger that drives appropriation; and she shares what her Indigenous mentors have taught her about how we might grow in humility and in our collective spiritual capacity. Aleyah and Candice ponder the question: How might we explore spiritual tools that help and add value to our lives without co-opting, stealing, and perpetuating colonial harm? Cognitive dissonance and emotional triggers are discussed, as well as how an understanding of cult recovery can support us in our anti-racism learning and unlearning. Aleyah invites the investigation of ‘the poverty of whiteness’ and shares what it might look like to co-create expressions of spirituality and personal growth that are relationally accountable. The episode wraps with an invitation to support Aleyah and her collaborators to share their knowledge more widely.

Aleyah-Erin Lennon (she/her) is a scholar, speaker, poet and musician. Through an anti-colonial and trauma-informed lens, her focus is on healing the disconnection and abuses in the trilogy of our relationships to Self, Others, and Land. Created in partnership with Indigenous Elders, knowledge holders, and friends, he published work weaves diverse cultural narratives, story sharing, and poetry into a landscape of questions concerning our sense of identity and belonging.

• GoFundMe to Support Aleyah's Work
• Community Voices For Manoomin
• Osawamick G’Tigaaning
• Mother Earth Walk

Also referenced in this episode:

• The Color Purple, by Alice Walker
• Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat, by Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, & Julian Walker
• White Women: Everything You Already Know About Your Own Racism and How to Do Better, by Regina Jackson & Saira Rao
• My Grandmother’s Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies, by Resmaa Menakam
• Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances: New Age Commercialization of Native American Spirituality, by Lisa Aldred

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

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Candice is back on the main feed, asking for help as she deconstructs the striking overlap between cult dynamics and colonial harm. Inspired by the work of BIPOC educators and anti-racism activists, she explores how social location factors into collective cult recovery. Then, artist, activist, and educator, Aleyah-Erin Lennon joins Candice for the first half of a two-part conversation that explores what it might mean, if we, as white women in the world were to take radical responsibility. Aleyah identifies as a second-generation diasporic Irish descendant and white settler Canadian who has lived her entire life in the territories of Anishinaabeg nations. She has been privileged to work alongside and learn from Indigenous communities across the Great Lakes region for the last 15 years in service to their ecological and educational visions. Together, Aleyah and Candice explore what unconscious colonial identities have in common with the cult mindset, picking apart what it might actually mean to break free from the cult of whiteness. Aleyah shares about her background and how a search for spiritual community inspired her to take up decolonizing identity work, and she cites the wisdom of Indigenous mentors who have generously offered their consent and support for this conversation. Decolonization is defined in the context of intergenerational healing on all sides of the colonial and racial divide. Aleyah shares how a threefold methodology of deep listening, critical self-reflection, and embodied action can guide us toward relational accountability. Aleyah shares how reclaiming a connection to her ancestral roots has been pivotal to her living activism and points to how we all might find a deeper sense of meaning and recovery as we grapple with where we’re headed.

Aleyah-Erin Lennon (she/her) is a scholar, speaker, poet and musician. Through an anti-colonial and trauma-informed lens, her focus is on healing the disconnection and abuses in the trilogy of our relationships to Self, Others, and Land. Created in partnership with Indigenous Elders, knowledge holders, and friends, her published work weaves diverse cultural narratives, story sharing, and poetry into a landscape of questions concerning our sense of identity and belonging.

Referenced in this episode:

• White Privilege, Quantified - Joe Pinsker
• My Grandmother's Hands - Resmaa Menekam
• Sacred Water Circle – Elder Dorothy Taylor
• Nibi Emosaawdamajig – Dr. Elder Shirley Williams
• Circle of All Nations – Algonquin Elder Grandfather William Commanda-ba

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

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Here's another sneak peek at what’s been happening over on Patreon in the ongoing deconstructing dogma series. Every week, Candice sits down with friends and former colleagues to critically examine undue influence and culty indoctrination in the wellness world, and there are now 30+ bonus episodes available to all patrons of the pod. This episode features some of the best moments from recent releases. 

Excerpts include: 

• Sample cuts from a recent solo episode with Candice where she shares a bit about a recent surge in listenership and all the feels it's bringing up for her & others over in the private After The Org recovery community. Inspired by the work of Matthew Remski, she speaks about survivor shame and also why so many folks double down in defense of the practice. 
• Snippets from a two-part convo with former Org trainer, Dr. Barb Wesson, who joins Tracy & Candice to deconstruct spirituality - sans all the cultiness. How do we recover a sense of meaning in the aftermath of all that dogma? 
• Excerpts from a timely convo with veteran fitness pro, Fiona Winter, who joins Candice & Tracy from Wales to discuss why she recently decided to let her Org license lapse - after two decades. Fiona also shares how she's incorporating greater consent & inclusivity into her teaching practice. 
• The episode wraps with a sample of a long-form interview with Valerie Branch, who worked as a frontline receptionist at 'the Org' back in the early aughts. She & Candice trade stories about the years they spent working together at Org HQ, and Valerie delivers some welcome hindsight wisdom to those just stepping out.

If you want more of what this episode has to offer, consider becoming a patron of the pod for as little as $5 a month. Patreon donations keep the podcast ad-free. If you're interested in learning more, visit patreon.com/thedeeperpulse.

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates.

CW: This episode features reference to emotional abuse and coercion.

This week, we pick up where we left off in a two-part conversation with former ‘Org’ trainer, Shannon Geltner. The episode opens with Shannon & Tracy deep breathing through their emotional triggers to offer us a peek inside of yet-another disturbing trainer training - and a group sharing ‘exercise’ that has cult-vibes written all over it. Shannon shares how it felt being publicly shamed in front of her peers, then shares how going through a divorce (and finding a good therapist) helped her come to terms with her own codependency; which delivered up some startling insights about not only her marriage, but her fourteen-year relationship to the Org. She expresses her grief openly, and shares why she hung onto the practice and her primary source of livelihood for as long as she could, until an interaction with ‘Marissa’ the Org's co-founder really opened her eyes. Shannon began expressing her boundaries and was soon after fired as a trainer. She tells us what it was like receiving her demotion letter; not only how it felt but also why she chose to walk away silently and without protest. She delivers a powerful message to her fellow trainers - current and former - who are listening, and Tracy experiences an unexpected swell of emotion that leads us into a shameless and fiery discussion about anger, outrage, and the pressure to forgive. The episode wraps with Shannon’s share around her personal experiences at Tony Robbins trainings, and how there is really nothing new under the sun when it comes to packaging and selling self-development. This is long episode with lots of twists and turns, and we're hoping it opens all of us to more nuanced discussions around shared accountability.

Shannon Geltner, MS has been teaching conscious, therapeutic movement for 19+ years in the Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex as well as nationally. She is the owner of Compassion Fitness™ LLC and she is trained in a wide variety of movement modalities, both traditional and non-traditional. Shannon did her Pilates Instructor certification in 2017 with Club Pilates in their 500-hour Teacher Training program, and is currently the General Manager for two local Club Pilates studios in DFW. Pilates certification allows her to apply her years of expertise in anatomy, giving her the ability to create fun, whole body workouts on specialized apparatus, which in turn has helped her overcome injury and heal her own body in a healthy and safe way. In addition to Pilates, Shannon is an Org 1st Degree Black Belt, a former Org Teacher Trainer, a JourneyDance Facilitator, and a Melt Method instructor. Shannon holds a Bachelor of Business Administration in Entrepreneurship and a Masters of Science in Natural Health. She always encourages her students to create a healthy, joyful lifestyle by integrating nutrition and mindful movement into their daily lives. Shannon loves the Pilates community and the conscious movement Pilates creates, and she feels blessed every day to be able to live and teach what she loves!

Referenced in this episode:

• Deep Cut: Post-Cult Shame (Conspirituality podcast)

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates.