The Divorcing Religion Podcast

David Hayward - The Naked Pastor, Revealed

Divorced: Christianity

My guest today is known by many of you for his powerful cartoons and paintings related to deconstruction from Christianity. I’m speaking with my fellow Canadian, David Hayward, who is an ex-pastor turned full-time artist. David is also known as The Naked Pastor. He's been blogging about spirituality, deconstruction, and religious freedom since 2006. He is also the author of several books, including Til Doubt Do Us Part and Flip It Like This.

David participated on the Ex-Clergy Panel at CORT2021, the inaugural Conference on Religious Trauma, along with Dan Barker, Clint Heacock, and Tim Sledge.

FIND DAVID: https://nakedpastor.com/

JANICE SELBIE 

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book, Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook, is available here.

Recordings are now available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket: https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 5pm Pacific. Don't miss your chance to connect with others on the healing journey: https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Need 1:1 help recovering from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@divorcingreligion

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorcingreligion/

Subscribe to the audio-only version of the Divorcing Religion Podcast here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular, mental health clinician. 

The views expressed by guests are not necessarily held by the host.

Support the show

Pamela Jones - Escaping a Deadly Polygamous Cult

DIVORCED: FLDS Cults

 TW: Brief mention of CSA and child abuse in this episode

In 1965, PAMELA JONES was born in Los Molinos, Mexico, into a polygamous Mormon cult known as The Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Time. As the eldest daughter of 13 children, she left school at age 11 to care for her younger siblings in a remote desert compound without electricity or running water. 

Married at 15, Pamela found herself trapped at Zion’s Camp, an even more oppressive cult offshoot, with a husband more controlling and manipulative than her abusive father. 

At age 34, after 17 pregnancies and 9 children, Pamela and her kids escaped to the United States. With no resources and less than a fifth-grade education, she found work cleaning houses, determined to build a new life for her family.

Today Pamela and her sister Vera, also a cult survivor, host the podcast Wicked Confessions Uncensored, exploring the hidden world of polygamous cults, where pretenses of holiness mask shocking truths. Pamela and Vera pull back the curtain to reveal the scandals, immorality, hypocrisy, betrayal, and hidden reality of life in these oppressive and secretive communities.

Pamela lives outside Minneapolis with her sweetheart, Rick, close to her 9 children and 30 grandchildren. The Dirt Beneath Our Door: My Journey to Freedom After Escaping a Polygamous Mormon Cult is her first book.

FIND PAMELA JONES:

Website: https://www.pamelaspeaks.live/

Book: The Dirt Beneath Our Door https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Dirt-Beneath-Our-Door/Pamela-Jones/9781637747292

Podcast: Wicked Confessions Uncensored is available on most podcast platforms.

FIND JANICE:

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook is now available in the USA:

Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

 and CANADA 

Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

Recordings are available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket now: 

https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/ 

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific and Thursdays at 6pm Eastern (starting April 17). Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services 

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: [email protected]

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wisecounsellor/

Subscribe to the audio-only version here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular mental health clinician.

Support the show

Tara Jean Stevens - Heaven Bent

Divorced: Pentecostalism

CW: Sexuality discussed

Today I’m speaking with fellow Canadian Tara Jean (TJ) Stevens, the host and creator of Heaven Bent, a podcast docuseries with a special focus on Pentecostal and Charismatic movements. In addition to her successful podcast, TJ has also been a morning show favourite on Vancouver radio & TV for 25 years. Listen to "Tara Jean in the Morning" on Wave 98.3 - Vancouver's Coolest Vibe.

In this episode, TJ shares candidly how the “Toronto Blessing” and other charismatic Christian experiences impacted her life. 

FIND HEAVEN BENT: https://lnk.to/HeavenBentPod
IG: https://lnk.to/HeavenBentPod
FB: https://www.instagram.com/heavenbentpod/
 

FIND JANICE SELBIE

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book, Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook, is now available in the USA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DP78TZZF and CANADA https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZFRecordings are now available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket: https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific/8 Eastern and Thursdays at 5pm Pacific/8pm Eastern. Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@divorcingreligion

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorcingreligion/

 Subscribe to the audio-only version of the Divorcing Religion Podcast here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified secular mental health clinician. The host does not necessarily hold the views expressed by guests.

Support the show

Karrah Youngblood - Exposing A Predator: Wildfire

TW: Violence and sexual assault

Karrah Youngblood is a professional artist, single mom, and unexpected memoirist from Oklahoma. She never planned to be an activist, but standing up to the man who hurt her — and so many others — turned into a fight she couldn’t walk away from.

Karrah is now telling her story: The story of what happens when one woman refuses to stay silent, despite every reason to. Wildfire, A Memoir, is about how Karrah Youngblood stood up to one of the most documented predators in modern history – and to the systemic injustice that protected him at every turn. 

In Karrah’s own words: 

“My art has been featured by NPR, TMZ, and Comic-Con, but Wildfire is the creation I’m most proud of. Telling my story seemed like the obvious thing to do since a serial predator tried so hard to stop it. Writing and Publishing Wildfire feels like the closest form of Justice I will ever receive. I wrote it to reclaim my voice — and to help others find theirs.”

 FIND KARRAH:

spreadthewildfire.com

pumpkinbrains.com (Karrah’s art)

facebook.com/karrah 

Tiktok.com/@pumpkinbrains

 FIND JANICE SELBIE:

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book, Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook, is now available in the USA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DP78TZZF and CANADA https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZFRecordings are now available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket: https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific/8 Eastern and Thursdays at 3pm Pacific/6pm Eastern. Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@divorcingreligion

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorcingreligion/

 Subscribe to the audio-only version of the Divorcing Religion Podcast here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular, mental health clinician. 

The views expressed by guests are not necessarily held by the host.

Support the show

Pamela Nickel Williams - Scientology: When Lies Are True

DIVORCED: Scientology

TW: Incest 

Pamela Nickel Williams was born into Scientology. Her parents were early Scientologists who worked closely with L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology’s founder, at the first Church of Scientology in the late 1950s. Pamela and her parents were practicing members of the church until the late 1970s. After years of burying her childhood memories, Pamela began writing and documenting her experiences, seeking to acknowledge the abuse she suffered, and to try and understand the dysfunction that existed within her family due to Scientology’s beliefs and practices.

 Her memoir, Clearly Lies Are True, is a powerful and compelling first-hand narrative account of her experiences as a child during the early inception of Scientology. As both a cult survivor, and a survivor of sexual abuse, her book chronicles her parents’ search for “Total Freedom,” her sexual abuse at the hands of her father, and her mother's psychosis, which was brought about by Scientology.

FIND PAMELA, HER SOCIALS, AND HER BOOK 

https://linktr.ee/clearlyliesaretrue *A portion of the proceeds from the sale of her book will be donated to the

Michael J. Rinder Aftermath Foundation, a non-profit organization that provides resources, support, and advocacy to those who leave Scientology and the Sea Org.

FIND JANICE SELBIE

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book, Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook, is now available in the USA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DP78TZZF and CANADA https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZFRecordings are now available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket: 

https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific/8 Eastern and Thursdays at 3pm Pacific/6pm Eastern. Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@divorcingreligion

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorcingreligion/

 Subscribe to the audio-only version of the Divorcing Religion Podcast here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular, mental health clinician. The views expressed by guests are not necessarily held by the host.

Support the show

Allie Monday - Erotic Photographer & Worshiper of Women

DIVORCED: Fundamentalism

TW: Eating disorder mentioned briefly

 My guest today was one of our sponsors for Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture 2025. Allie Monday is an erotic photographer and the creator of Ladygroove, a body-led portrait experience rooted in healing, sensuality, and self-acceptance. Her work invites women to shed shame and come home to their erotic aliveness. With over a decade behind the lens & 500+ women photographed, she blends artful witnessing with deep playful presence to create images that feel like sacred artifacts.

Today, Allie shares her evolution from growing up in a Southern Baptist-type tradition and being an abstinence-only teacher to working in the field of erotic photography and empowering women to love themselves and fully experience pleasure. Allie's work has recently been published in the book HER BODY: A Riotous Celebration of the Female Form, and it's available through her website.

 FIND ALLIE: 

website: www.iamladygroove.com

IG: instagram.com/ladygroove

FIND JANICE:

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook is now available in the USA:

Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

 and CANADA 

Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

Recordings are available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket now: 

https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/ 

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific and Thursdays at 6pm Eastern (starting April 17). Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services 

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: [email protected]

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wisecounsellor/

Subscribe to the audio-only version here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular mental health clinician.

Support the show

Cynane Shay - Tinfoil Hats and Lizard People PART TWO

DIVORCED: Christianity

TW: Antisemitism, violence, and satanism are all mentioned in this episode.

Today, nuclear engineer and writer Cynane Shay joins me for Part 2 of our conversation, "Tinfoil Hats and Lizard People." Our discussion today is based on research Cynane has conducted over the past few years to gain an understanding of where and how QAnon beliefs and antisemitic conspiracy theories originated. This research has taken Cynane several hundred years into the past, so buckle up for our deep dive! 

FIND CYNANE: More information, EXvangelical reading recommendations, and social media links are found on her website: www.TakingOffTheTinfoilHat.com

FIND JANICE:

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook is now available in the USA:

Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

 and CANADA 

Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

Recordings are available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket now: 

https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/ 

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific and Thursdays at 6pm Eastern (starting April 17). Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services 

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: [email protected]

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wisecounsellor/

Subscribe to the audio-only version here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular mental health clinician.

Support the show

Cynane Shay - Tinfoil Hats & Lizard People PART ONE
DIVORCED: Christianity

Cynane Shay is a nuclear engineer living in South Carolina. Her childhood in White Christian Nationalism normalized conspiracy theories like Obama Birtherism and the Biblical apocalypse; but 2020, with COVID and Qanon, finally made her realize something was deeply wrong.

Now Cynane is writing a book, “Taking Off the Tinfoil Hat: How Lizard People and Space Lasers Dismantled my Christian Worldview,” to process the deconstruction of her fundamentalist evangelical faith and her propagandistic patriotism. 
Losing loved ones to the pandemic was a tragedy, but losing loved ones to the rabbit hole was its own tragedy that left too many of us with unresolved trauma and unanswered questions. So from Flat Earth to the IBLP cult to Jewish space lasers, Cynane pulled the thread, cracked her faith, and found the inseparable link between cults, conspiracy theories, and American White Christian Nationalism. 

FIND CYNANE: More information, EXvangelical reading recommendations, and social media links are found on her website: www.TakingOffTheTinfoilHat.com

FIND JANICE:

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook is now available in the USA:

Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

 and CANADA 

Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

Recordings are available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket now: 

https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/ 

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific and Thursdays at 6pm Eastern (starting April 17). Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services 

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: [email protected]

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wisecounsellor/

Subscribe to the audio-only version here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular mental health clinician.

Support the show

Alyona Smoky - A Beautiful Liberation

CW: War in Ukraine

Alyona Smoky was born and raised in Ukraine, where her mother joined a high-control, conservative evangelical church when Alyona was young. As a result of family stressors, Alyona shouldered much of the emotional burden in her family as a child, and she grew up very quickly in a chaotic and emotionally intense environment.

When she was 16, Alyona moved to the U.S. with her family due to political unrest in Ukraine. She found coming to the U.S. disorienting, having left behind community and structure while carrying internalized religious control with her. Alyona felt stuck between two worlds — Ukrainian and American — and didn’t feel truly at home in either.

In this episode, Alyona shares her fascinating story of immigration and her liberation from high-demand religion and purity culture. Don't miss her journey of becoming a coach, writer, and photographer, as she helps others recover from high-control systems, including religion, cults, and ideology-heavy environments. Alyona also hosts the Showing Up Sustainably Podcast.

FIND ALYONA:

 Alyona's Linktree: https://linktr.ee/alyonasmoky?utm_source=linktree_profile_share<sid=9c4ed103-f24b-4f70-8139-c914dbec5e59

FIND JANICE:

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook is now available in the USA:

Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

 and CANADA 

Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

Recordings are available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket now: 

https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/ 

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific and Thursdays at 6pm Eastern (starting April 17). Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services 

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: [email protected]

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wisecounsellor/

Subscribe to the audio-only version here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

 The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular mental health clinician.

Support the show

Michelle Moffitt - From Abuse to Freedom

CW: Sexual Assault

Michelle Moffitt Rogers is a licensed therapist, Enneagram expert, and author. In this episode, Michelle shares her story and explores the psychological impact of spiritual abuse, the complexities of leaving both faith and a toxic marriage to a pastor, and what healing looks like on the other side. 

You won't want to miss her raw, honest exposé about the dangers of being a pastor's wife when the pastor isn't safe.

Her book is called Cracked Open: A Journey to a Resilient and Independent Mindset.

FIND MICHELLE:

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/michellemoffittcoach
Instagram: instagram.com/michellemoffittcoach

Book on Amazon: https://a.co/d/5uhrmnb

Indie Books: bookshop.org/p/books/cracked-open-a-journey-to-a-resilient-and-independent-mindset/8fdfa2c36aade660?ean=9798889262671&next=t

Website: https://fiveoakscounseling.com/

FIND JANICE:

Janice Selbie's Best-selling book Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook is now available in the USA: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DP78TZZF

And Canada: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

Divorcing Religion: A Memoir and Survival Handbook - Kindle edition by Selbie, Janice. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
amazon.com/dp/B0DP78TZZF
and CANADA: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DP78TZZF

Recordings are available for the Shameless Sexuality: Life After Purity Culture conference 2025! Get your Resource Ticket now: 

https://www.shamelesssexuality.org/

Religious Trauma Survivor Support Group is happening on Tuesdays at 5pm Pacific and Thursdays at 6pm Eastern (starting April 17). Don’t miss this opportunity to connect with others for healing and support: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Need help on your journey of healing from Religious Trauma? Book a free 20-minute consultation with Janice here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/services

Follow Janice and Divorcing Religion on Social Media:

Threads: [email protected]

BlueSky: @janiceselbie.bsky.social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion

TikTok: @janiceselbie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wisecounsellor/

Subscribe to the audio-only version here: 

https://www.divorcing-religion.com/religious-trauma-podcast

The Divorcing Religion Podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you need help with your mental health, please consult a qualified, secular, mental health clinician.

Support the show