The Fundamental Molecule

If I was to write a list of all the tricks we’re missing in water, it would be a lot, and somewhere near the very top would be lobbying - engagement with government on the federal and state level. I recognize we've made a lot of progress in the last five or six years in terms of securing capital for the required infrastructure renewal in the US, but there is a hell of a long way to go. But I look over the fence at energy, both legacy and renewables, healthcare, insurance, biotech, down to the gun lobby, and I can't help but think there is a massive gap between how effective we are in water and how effective we could be and how much more support for the fundamental molecule we would get if we were. Mae Stevens is a specialist lobbyist for water at Banner Public Affairs, and she recently joined us for our Founder Forum in DC alongside fellow lobbyist and longtime friend of BIV, Dan Kidera. She and he, they were both so good, and I wanted to have her on The Fundamental Molecule to help demystify this murky area of water at scale. Please enjoy my conversation with Mae Stevens. 

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For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

Jorge Richardson - Water Access, Reliability, and Selfies with Bono

Sometimes businesses pop up that take a bit of time to make sense. HOPE Hydration is one of those businesses. When I first met Jorge Richardson in 2021, he was chock full of confidence, like a lot of entrepreneurs in 2021, with an admirably aggressive plan, but I couldn't quite see it. And, fortunately, I was wrong. Make no mistake, this is an exceptional early company with the potential to transform a very large legacy part of the water sector. Jorge is also exactly the right person to build it. A rare combination of smarts, charisma, and a down to earth way of looking at the journey that can only come from a very specific blend of experiences, both positive and negative. We think they can be a huge part of the solution to the public water access problem, and this is a fascinating look into the early stages of building that solution. Hopefully, you'll get it faster than I did because we are seriously excited. They were our second investment in BIV Fund 2. Please enjoy my conversation with Jorge Richardson. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Jorge Richardson’s journey led him to create Hope Hydration, tackling the broken water access system with fresh ideas. In 2021, he pivoted to focus on event-based water stations, quickly learning how to make a big impact with limited resources. By combining a smart, ad-driven business model with B Corp principles, Hope Hydration is redefining what it means to offer free, high-quality water everywhere. For Jorge, success is all about having the right people, a clear mission, and staying true to your values.

00:00 Start

00:49 Introduction

01:53 Jorge's Unconventional Path to Water Sector

02:18 Mission and Vision of Hope Hydration

04:50 Problems with Traditional Water Access Models

08:00 Transforming Drinking Water Infrastructure

11:10 Key Learnings and Pivot from 2021 Onwards

16:46 Understanding the Ad Business Model in Water Tech

20:45 Balancing Ads with Mission as a B Corp

25:27 The Power of Networking and Partnerships

29:43 Scaling Across Multiple Vertical Markets

35:38 Building Sustainable Competitive Advantage

41:53 Global Impact and Scaling Hope Hydration

45:23 Advice for Future Water Entrepreneurs

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/

Jorge Richardson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgerichardson/

HOPE Hydration: https://www.hopehydration.com/

There's an old saying from east London: “Where there's muck, there's brass.” Essentially, what this means is that the management of the dirtier side of life is invariably an opportunity for a decent business. Sewers are a big business. There are a million miles of them beneath our feet in the US, and about 300 million of them need to be inspected and cleaned every year. A serious undertaking. Matt Rosenthal, along with his Co-founder Billy Gilmartin, is building SewerAI in order to massively improve the process, efficiency, and accuracy of completing these inspections, and much more besides. As you will hear, he thinks as clearly about the fundamental job of an entrepreneur and leader as anyone we work with, and his pathway to building SewerAI was as entrepreneurial, honest, and compelling as any you will hear. Fitbit's loss was US sewer infrastructure’s gain. Please enjoy my conversation with Matt Rosenthal. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Matt Rosenthal, Co-founder and CEO of SewerAI, shares his journey from a chance entry into water tech to leading a company that is revolutionizing sewer inspection with AI. The discussion covers the challenges of scaling a tech-driven business in the water sector, the critical role of providing real value to customers, and the complexities of working with municipalities. This episode offers valuable insights into how innovation and AI are transforming essential infrastructure.

0:00:00 Start

0:00:49 Introduction

0:01:56 Matt and Billy’s entry into the sewer inspection industry.

0:04:00 Inefficiencies in traditional sewer inspections.

0:07:53 Market analysis and early mistakes.

0:11:02 Technical challenges in sewer inspection.

0:13:35 Combining skills to build the company.

0:18:19 Effective division of responsibilities.

0:20:50 Competitive edge through strong execution.

0:26:57 Leadership changes and hiring importance.

0:31:13 Series B fundraising strategy.

0:39:56 Thoughts on AI’s role and value.

0:43:54 Vision for expanding Sewer AI’s solutions.

0:46:31 Matt’s single most important piece of advice for future and aspiring water entrepreneurs.

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures:  https://www.burntislandventures.com/

Matt Rosenthal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewrosenthal99/

Key Takeaways:

"The easiest way to raise a round is to build a kick-ass business. End of story."

"Provide value to your customers. Everything else just follows from that."

"If you can answer ‘yes’ to generating revenue and doubling it yearly, you're pretty good."

"AI is just a part of the value we provide. It's the whole stack that matters."

"We make people better at their jobs. That's what we do as a company."

"Extreme honesty and openness build trust and show success."

"Don't worry about building the business. Focus on providing value."

"My job is to make my employees as productive as possible so they can make our customers productive."

"The bar for excellence has never been so low. Do what you said you were going to do before it became inconvenient."

Peter Fiske has packed a lot into his career, from being a rare successful academic to entrepreneur crossover to his current role as head of NAWI, the National Alliance for Water Innovation. He's just someone who loves building stuff, and he's done a lot from building and selling PAX Water Technologies to setting up the infrastructure for the radically improved coordination of US research into water technology. He's also one of the most energetic people I know - game recognize game - and one of the best communicators. Please enjoy my really fun conversation with Peter Fiske. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Peter discusses his journey from academia to entrepreneurship, applying academic research to solve real-world water issues, lessons from his first sale, and the future of brackish water desalination. He also highlights the need for decentralized water infrastructure and draws parallels with the energy sector's evolution. Emphasizing empathy, data, and collaboration in addressing water industry challenges, he notes that, as climate change impacts water resources, innovative solutions and industry cooperation are now, and will continue to be, vital.

0:00 Start

0:50 Introduction

1:31 Peter’s initial path into the water world

7:51 Moving from academia to entrepreneurship

19:56 Peter’s first sale and the lessons learned from it

22:46 Applying academic findings to relieve pain points

26:52 The future of brackish water desalination

28:34 Why doesn’t the US have a Department of Water?

29:51 Our main water problem

31:46 Public understanding of water issues

36:31 Water technology in the context of the S-Curve

40:30 Peter’s reflection on selling his business

43:57 His single most important piece of advice for aspiring water entrepreneurs

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures  

NAWI

Key Takeaways:

"Entrepreneurship is first and foremost a personal choice and a career choice."

"PhDs can be outstanding entrepreneurs. They are used to working extremely hard and are enormously resilient."

"Empathy for your customers is crucial. Truly hope that what you have makes their life better."

"Successful entrepreneurs are not risk takers. They analyze an environment and wait for the right opportunity."

"The water industry is an unusually cordial and collaborative industry. Seek ways of synergy."

"If you don't have data, you just have an opinion. Bring data to frame technical performance."

"Our climate is changing, and the principal delivery vehicle for those effects will be the water cycle."

"The future is already here; it's just not uniformly distributed."

It's well documented that we at Burnt Island Ventures love founder-market fit, but we really love it when it leads us to a founder and company that represents that fundamental leap forward in the operation of that market. Josh Mackanic is one of those founders. His two decades of experience in infrastructure has led him to build a platform people have talked about in the industry for a long time, but he and his team have been the ones to bring it to life. His deep knowledge of the infrastructure world is obvious in our conversation. We cover everything from the identification of the problem to how he thought through his fundraising process to how he sees the role of CivilGrid in unlocking a huge amount of friction in the wholesale infrastructure upgrade that the US requires in the coming decades. Please enjoy my conversation with the excellent Josh Mackanic. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Josh Mackanic, seasoned infrastructure expert and founder of CivilGrid, shares his journey from managing large-scale construction projects at PG&E to creating a revolutionary platform for infrastructure management. He discusses his unique insights into utility operations, the significant challenges faced by the construction industry, his team’s design expertise, and the crucial role of meticulous planning in successful project execution. Explaining how CivilGrid preemptively consolidates vast amounts of site-specific data, our guest notes that this results in streamlining project design, and reducing costly errors. Finishing up, Josh shares his thoughts on the future of infrastructure, the impact of the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) on the industry, and his advice for aspiring water entrepreneurs.

0:00 Start

0:49 Introduction

1:56 Josh’s journey to starting CivilGrid

5:42 ‘Dig ins’ and the potential issues with them

8:23 The problem he and his colleagues decided to solve

10:23 CivilGrid and its impact

14:25 Acquisition of a critical mass of data

16:20 Understanding your areas of strength and weakness

17:22 Learning about selling

19:24 The CivilGrid team’s exceptional understanding of design

23:25 Josh’s insights on fundraising

27:28 His perspective on the IRA, infrastructure, and the future

31:03 Retaining and ingraining values in the team members

30:31 Josh’s most important advice for future water entrepreneurs

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/

CivilGrid: https://www.civilgrid.com/

Quotes:

"Running a complex construction project is like orchestrating a symphony in an unstructured environment."

"90-92% of projects go over schedule or budget. Your biggest impact is at the design and planning stage."

"If you don't have customers, you don't have a business. Start with the customers and work backwards."

"Fundraising isn't just about money. It's about building the team and getting the right people aligned with your mission."

"Prepare yourself mentally and physically. The road is longer and requires more resolve than you expect."

We talk a lot about founder market fit. It's a crucial component of founder selection because of the simple fact that founders who really understand their industries are very unlikely to build something that people don't want. There is no gap between the perceived reality of their market and the actual reality of their market. An awful lot of venture funding is burned bridging that gap. Alongside his co-founder, Glenn, Paul Vacquier has built Beagle Services, a new generation of plumbing company, in direct response to his experience in attempting to roll out IoT units in the market, and it's going rather well. He is a powerful combination of litigator, salesman, and leader, wrapped in a cloak of relentlessness that is required for his market. And his market is rewarding his approach at increasing scale. You'll see why. Please enjoy my conversation with Paul Vacquier. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Paul recounts his journey from litigation to launching Beagle Services, and discusses the importance of founder-market fit. He also highlights the challenges of innovating in regulated sectors, the strategic scaling of Beagle, and the value of applying lessons from his law career to navigate the complex water industry. Our highly esteemed guest concludes today’s remarkably informative and entertaining conversation by offering crucial advice on resilience as well as market insight for budding entrepreneurs in water technology.

0:00 Start

0:49 Introduction

1:56 Paul’s path to water

3:51 Law profession lessons and advantages

8:34 His experience with Contract Cloud

11:23 His time at Flo

14:25 What led him to Beagle

16:32 Beagle’s work and its importance

21:04 Beagle’s status now and in the future

22:53 Its ‘virtuous circle’ with the market

26:14 Beagle’s contact with underwriters

27:44 Managing Beagle’s level of scaling

31:03 Retaining and ingraining values in the team members

33:26 The sustained position of Beagle's business over time

35:36 The role of data in its business

40:13 Governmental and utility action of water efficiency

43:51 The advantages of Paul’s personal shift over the years

46:10 The importance of maintaining trust

46:49 What frustrates Paul about the funding market

52:03 Paul’s most important advice for future water entrepreneurs

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/

Beagle Services, Inc.: https://www.beagleservices.com/

Quotes:

"Every part of my law career taught me something valuable about deep diving into complex problems."

"The real job isn't just starting something; it's about continuously optimizing and adapting."

"In entrepreneurship, your ability to learn and adapt is as crucial as your initial idea."

"We need to bridge the gap between technology potential and practical application in the water sector."

"Being comfortable in uncomfortable situations has shaped how I approach business challenges."

"Innovation in water technology isn't just about conservation but also about infrastructure resilience."

People do business with people they like, and Matt Johnson is one of the most likable people I have met in the last 10 years. He is a cocktail of curiosity, energy, reflectiveness, enthusiasm, and both left and right brains that come together in a genuinely compelling person. And his company is a reflection of him and his co-founder, Bibi - a phenomenally designed, user centric, cost effective solution for a pervasive problem, not only in water, but in real estate and all real assets as well. LAIIER have already secured leak detection contracts with two of the biggest companies in the world and have a good shot at becoming a new standard in building resilience. Their story is a fascinating study in entrepreneurship, and they're in a very interesting position indeed. Please enjoy my conversation with Matt Johnson. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Matt shares his entrepreneurial journey from Colorado to London, emphasizing the cultural insights and strategic growth tactics he's adopted.  He and Tom discuss LAIIER's innovative solutions for preventing damage in real estate and industrial settings, the challenges of negotiating with large entities, and the significance of understanding customer needs for business success. Their discussion here today takes a deep dive into the complexities of water technology that encapsulates the essence of overcoming adversity with a positive mindset, underscoring the critical role of humor and resilience in the entrepreneurial journey.

0:00 Start

0:49 Introduction

2:15 Matt’s journey to LAIIER

6:47 What LAIIER produces

8:36 Advantages and disadvantages of Matt’s training

11:28 The discovery process

14:47 Working with big name entities

18:15 The importance of sequencing

21:55 Alleviating some of the sales pressure on him

24:43 A fundamental founder sales problem

29:09 Replicating founder level sales quality in a sales organization

33:11 Negotiation lessons and resources

36:51 Cultural differences between Britain and the US

39:56 Reflections on becoming an entrepreneur

42:00 Matt’s single piece of advice for water entrepreneurs

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures:  https://www.burntislandventures.com/

LAIIER:  https://www.laiier.io/

Quotes:

“So it is really like different strips of tape that you can stick on, around, under pieces of equipment that do very precise measurement of different liquids on the surface, and then report that remotely. 

"Culturally, it's now aspirational to be entrepreneurial in the UK."

"It's crucial to be methodical about consistency in communication during customer discovery."

"Great businesses are built through facilitating a connection, often reassembling existing things in a new context."

"The advantage of the founder is industry knowledge, charm, and willingness to take risks, but the advantage of a sales team is negotiation and execution."

“If you can maintain a sense of humor when it gets really tough, you're more likely to maintain the creative energy required to not just survive it, but to thrive in it.”

Nicole Neeman Brady is a real standout in the world of water. An entrepreneur, an intrapreneur fund manager, mentor to countless emerging water professionals, she has packed a lot into her time in the sector. She's currently a managing director with Renewable Resources Group, where she oversaw the raising and deployment of the $927 million sustainable Water Impact Fund, the largest of its kind ever. She is also a public servant of considerable standing, having just left the board of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, which is the largest municipality in the US with an annual operating budget of $7.5 billion. And she previously served on the Colorado River Board of California. As you will hear, she's a deeply smart, generous, and reflective person with a fascinating career. Please enjoy my conversation with Nicole Neeman Brady. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Nicole shares details from her transformative journey from early days at high-profile firms like McKinsey and Goldman Sachs to her pivotal role in pioneering distributed water treatment solutions. She discusses the challenges and strategies in water management amid climate change, the complexities of board governance, and the impact of strategic decisions on environmental sustainability. Throughout the episode, Nicole offers insights into water rights investing, the dynamics of the SPAC market, and the crucial role of storytelling in advocating for environmental issues.

Episode Highlights:

0:00 Start

0:49 Introduction

2:00 Nicole’s journey to the water sector

6:35 The Renewable Resources Group (RRG)

9:16 Fundraising around water

11:54 Investing in water rights

14:37 SPAC markets

19:11 Serving on the LADWP board

22:55 Running an effective board

27:09 The role of a board Chair

29:30 Nicole’s perspective on MBAs and YPO

32:49 The future of water as an investable area

35:16 Communicating the water story

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures:  https://www.burntislandventures.com/

Nicole Neeman Brady:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/neemanbrady/

Quotes:

“I saw the critical need for innovative solutions in water management.”

“It can be a tremendous and clear opportunity to find a way to monetize water, to make investments in the sector while addressing water security challenges and really promoting sustainable and environmental good practices.”

"My water journey…really began with a deep fascination and passion for sustainability and resource management."

"We wanted to focus on distributed water treatment, really under the thesis that much like the energy sector, water too would move from large scale projects to more distributed solutions."

"I think there's been a much more notable recognition of the climate change's impact on water sources and their lack of durability and resiliency."

“We have to embrace storytelling as a strategic priority.”

“If you feel like you're drowning in problems, there's always a solution waiting to be distilled.”

In 2015, we still used those table speakers for conference calls. Remember those? Kind of looked like a spaceship. I had just started at Imagine H2O, and the first external call I had on my second day was with someone who was very highly regarded by my colleague Ivy Nguyen, who is now a BIV IC member. Hi, Ivy! That someone was Steve Kloos, partner at True North Venture Partners, previously at GE Water and Osmonics. And Ivy was really right. 

Over the following eight years, Steve became a friend, mentor, colleague, and through an annual seminar for IH2O companies that he ran, probably the single biggest influence on how I and the team thought about the science of early stage company creation and entrepreneurship. I was so grateful for his support through the formation of BIV Fund I, and it was a wonderful moment when we saw the possibility of working together. Along with Christine joining, BIV has now entered a new phase, and one that sets us up excellently for the long term. We have a three-person partnership of complementary skills and backgrounds, and it's tremendously exciting to have Steve join us. He's an exceptionally smart, kind person with a hell of a resume and is one of the highest integrity individuals I've had the pleasure of working with. 

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Steve Kloos’ career in the water field, his expertise in membrane technology, and his significant contributions at Osmonics, GE, and partner at True North Venture Partners is explored. He and Tom discuss the critical roles of mentorship, strategic thinking, and the dynamics of corporate integration and venture capital in fostering innovation. Key themes discussed are the power of water treatment technologies, the importance of understanding value chains, strategies for startup success and sustainability, and the need for continuous learning and adaptability in addressing climate change and advancing water technology.

Episode Highlights:

0:00 Start

0:49 Introduction

2:23 Steve’s journey with water

4:45 Membranes and their importance

5:49 GE’s acquisition of Osmonics

8:04 Steve’s progression within GE

9:59 GE’s vulnerabilities

12:28 Transitioning from focusing on business internally to externally

16:11 GE Ventures

18:05 True North and startup theory

22:35 Coaching startups

27:20 Risk retirement and registers

30:15 Lessons learned as AquaHydrex CEO

31:56 A unique tool in acquiring funding

34:16 Hydrogen and water’s intersection with climate and climate risk

39:27 Current

42:09 What excites him about BIV

46:10 Steve’s advice for prospective water entrepreneurs

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/

Current: https://currentwater.org/

“Onion Theory of Risk”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy9cAANwMe

Quotes:

"The true north of any company lies in understanding its customers and working backwards from there."

"Innovation is not just about having a groundbreaking idea; it’s about making it sustainable and scalable."

"Water is not just a resource; it’s a critical player in our collective response to climate change."

"Being a learner is more than a mindset; it’s the most crucial skill for any entrepreneur."

It's important to have people you look up to in the industry you choose. And by "look up to," I mean to be consistently, wildly impressed by what they're building, their intellect, their clarity of thought, their track record, and how they comport themselves. Reinhard Hübner is one of those people for me. As the CEO at SKion, he has built an undeniably impressive platform, yielding $700 million in global revenues and with no signs of slowing down. They know exactly how big their opportunity is. And he and his partner, Dirk Brusis, have built an interlinking set of companies, solutions, and technologies to really go after it. Please enjoy my conversation with the excellent Reinhard Hübner.

Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205

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Dr. Hübner delves into the strategic layers of the water industry, tracing his ascent from wastewater treatment to leading SKion's global expansion. They explore operational dynamics, the significance of human capital, and the complexities of mergers and acquisitions amid economic flux, emphasizing strategic growth and valuation discipline. Hübner discusses startup challenges, underscores direct customer relationships, and the necessity of a unified, innovative culture within SKion's network. Today’s discourse reveals SKion's strategic direction and ethos, imparting insights on adaptability, collaboration, and leadership vital for navigating the water industry's ever-evolving global challenges.

Episode Highlights:

0:00 Start

0:49 Introduction

1:39 Dr. Hübner’s career to date

3:45 Lessons learned from manufacturing and logistics experience

5:06 His experience in leakage

6:52 Drinking water vs wastewater reflections

8:56 Being headhunted to work in the German water industry

9:45 Learnings from the first deal that didn't work

14:18 Structural shifts that are enabling the faster adoption of new products

17:04 SKion and its relationships with business

23:40 M&A and the current market

27:26 Is water countercyclical?

28:40 Structural comparison of the European and US markets

32:03 The evolution of Dr. Hübner’s job

35:27 His thoughts on earlier stage investing

37:47 FIDO and leak detection fun

39:19 His partnership with Dirk Brusis

42:18 The pros and cons of Dr. Hübner’s public speaking

44:47 His most important piece of advice for aspiring water entrepreneurs

Links:

Burnt Island Ventures:  https://www.burntislandventures.com/

SKion Water:  https://www.skionwater.com/en/

Quotes:

"There's no such thing as life before water."

"You can't eat services...Somebody has to produce something from something."

"It's a conservative sector, and on the municipal side, they don't take risks."

"We don't want to be the biggest. We want to be the best."

"Forced collaboration is like forced labor...it doesn’t work."

"You need to be patient, which is not always my strength."

"We have been very disciplined in not overpaying."

"Water is full of passionate people. Nice, passionate people."

"I mean, the reality is drinking water is, technologically and asset wise, much simpler than wastewater."

"Don't try to do it alone. Find partners also in the industry."