The Gray Area with Sean Illing

The future of tribalism

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Sean Illing talks with evolutionary anthropologist David Samson, whose new book Our Tribal Future delves into how tribalism has shaped the human story — and how we might be able to mitigate its negative effects in the future. Sean and David discuss how and when tribal organization came on the scene, what changed in human organization when it did, and how taking advantage of some positive aspects of tribal alignment could provide a path toward inoculating humanity against stubborn, regressive divisiveness.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: David Samson (@Primalprimate), professor of anthropology, University of Toronto; author

References: 

  • Our Tribal Future: How to Channel Our Foundational Human Instincts into a Force for Good by David R. Samson (St. Martin's; 2023)
  • "Dunbar's number" by Robin Dunbar (New Scientist)
  • The Nunn Lab, Duke University
  • PDF: Surgeon General's Advisory on Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation (May 3)
  • "Human Response to Disaster" by Charles E. Fritz (Proceedings of the HFES, vol. 18 no. 3; 1974)
  • Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari (Signal; 2014)
  • The Expanding Circle: Ethics, Evolution, and Moral Progress by Peter Singer (Princeton; 2011)
  • "Peter Singer on his ethical legacy" (The Gray Area; May 25)
  • Blueprint: The Evolutionary Origins of a Good Society by Nicholas A. Christakis (Little Brown Spark; 2019)
  • Bill Nye debates Ken Ham (Feb. 4, 2014)
  • God and Evolution? The Implications of Darwin's Theory for Fundamentalism, the Bible, and the Meaning of Life by Daniel J. Samson (Solon; 2006)


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    This episode was made by: 

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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