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Zeke Lunder is a Pyro-geographer. His parents fled the Bay Area for the hillbilly sticks of Northeastern California in the late 1970s, when the timber industry was still a major part of the local economy, and Zeke started working in the woods in high school on a Forest Service conservation crew.

Zeke started his prescribed fire and fuels career in 1995 on a timber crew on the Lassen National Forest, marking trees for thinning on large-scale shaded fuel break projects and burning house-sized piles of logging slash. He got a degree in map-making from California State University, Chico, in 1996 and was one of the first NWCG-qualified wildfire mapping specialists in the United States.

In 2021, Zeke and his wife, Erika, founded Lookout Media, which provides in-depth reporting on prescribed fire, wildland fire management tactics, and forestry through their YouTube channel and website. Zeke currently lives in Chico, California.

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Today, I welcome Zeyn O’Leary, a 35-year veteran fire lookout who has staffed towers since 1991. Zeyn started in the Iron Mountain Lookout on the Willamette National Forest, staffed the Rose Peak Lookout in the Apache Sitgreaves National Forest, and currently staffs the Mt. Pisgah Lookout in the Ochoco National Forest in Central Oregon.

His experience spans multiple forests across three decades.

Today, we discuss the fast-arriving detection tech that has incrementally made its way to the mountain peaks of our National Forests and the Satellite tech that has been launched into lower earth orbit, compared to the human eyes that have been looking out for decades.

We discuss the 48-page data-driven document Zeyn put together that compares humans versus machines—a fascinating conversation with one of the longest-serving lookouts in the United States.

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With less than 48 hours to pass the Continuing Resolution that locks in base wage increases for wildland firefighters, I welcome Senator Tim Sheehy of Montana to discuss where we are. The House passed the Bill this week, and the Senate is expected to vote on it imminently. Will it pass the Senate?

If not, we will see a government shutdown.

Also, 10+ Bipartisan Wildfire Bills have been introduced that address a wide array of wildfire issues nationwide. Senator Sheehy and his colleagues are looking to pass these as a package deal, hopefully this spring. We discuss the Bills and what the process going forward looks like.

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I welcome Justin DeMoss, current Golden Eagles Hotshot and of Hotshot Wellness.

Justin is a dedicated humanitarian with a passion for improving physical, mental, and spiritual health. His mission is to help individuals achieve a better quality of life through holistic wellness.

He earned a Master’s in Exercise Science from Long Beach State, focusing his thesis and work as a Wellness Instructor for Santa Ana College on firefighter health and wellness. At Sports Academy, he served as a strength and conditioning coach, training competitive athletes and tactical personnel.

Currently, Justin is a Golden Eagles Hotshot, fighting wildfires across the U.S. as a 3rd puller and lead EMT on his crew. Seeking firsthand experience as a first responder, he has gained valuable insights into the challenges of the field.

Hotshot Wellness mission statement:

Our mission is to support the health and well-being of Interagency Hotshot Crews and Wildland Firefighters. By providing personal development opportunities, comprehensive wellness resources, and advocating for mental health, we empower firefighters to excel both on and off the fireline. We strive to cultivate a culture of growth, proactive care, and accessible support, ensuring they have the tools to thrive in every aspect of their lives.

Website Link:

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The last time JJ was on the show, we discussed his study on fire lunches and their effects on the wildland firefighters’ bodies. Since then, he has been working with Hotshot Crews and other fire resources to set them up with the optimal plan to maintain nutrition and health pre, post, and during the fire season.

After high school, JJ served as an infantryman in the Marine Corps for four years. After his enlistment, he was a wildland firefighter in Arizona for three years, including time on the Globe Hotshots. He is now married, and he and his wife, Josi, are dog mushers in Alaska.

He owns a nutrition coaching business, Frontier Performance Nutrition, where he spends most of his time coaching wildland firefighters, military personnel, and backcountry athletes. He believes that in a job where everything is stacked against our health, it’s up to us to optimize the fundamentals to lead long and healthy lives.

JJ's Contact info: IG: @fpncoaching

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.frontierpn.com

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Today, I welcome back Dr. Ludie Bond to discuss the already active Florida Fire season. Conditions across Florida are abnormally dry, and forests are starting to see fire activity they would typically see in March. The recent hurricanes also have impacted fuels, with large swaths of blowdown across Florida counties.

We cover the fires already occurring, the expected increased activity, drought conditions, and prescribed fire programs in Florida. They burn 2 Million acres annually in Florida! I also ask if they expect to have the fire resources necessary to handle the anticipated increased wildfire activity.

Dr. Bond holds a Bachelor of Science in Public Relations, a Master of Forest Resources and Conservation, and a Doctorate of Forest Resources and Conservation from the University of Florida. She serves as a Type 1 Complex Public Information Officer Section Lead on one of the Florida Forest Service’s Complex Incident Management Teams. She also develops Firewise projects and Countywide Community Wildfire Protection Plans to lower the risks and potential damaging effects of wildfires in communities determined to be at risk.

Dr. Bond has worked as a PIO on CIMTs throughout Florida, the southeast, and as far west as Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Montana, Oregon, Texas, and Utah. Dr. Bond has also responded to multiple hurricane recovery deployments throughout Florida, including in the panhandle of Florida for Hurricane Michael and southwest Florida for Hurricane Ian.

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Nearly 7,000 probationary employees were terminated in the last 48 hours across the land management agencies and park service. This included researchers at the Missoula Fire Lab, trails crews, biologists, and others.

The agencies have yet to communicate on the terminations that have occurred and any actions planned in the future. I have spoken with numerous supervisors and others who provided as much information as they had about what they are seeing and hearing inside the agencies and possible further actions. Primary wildfire positions continue to be exempt.

According to sources who understand how the process is proceeding, further actions based on performance evaluations are likely. The decision to lump all probationary employees into this termination action will have downstream effects, and positions critical to wildfire operations, although not primary fire, were removed.

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I have a conversation with Eddie Goldberg, Vice Chairman Of Perimeter Solutions. Perimeter Solutions holds the sole contract with the Forest Service for retardants and has operations around the globe.

We discuss the testing that retardants undergo, their composition, the safety studies that have been conducted, and the company's origins. We also discuss the upcoming wildfire legislation coming through Congress and what it will mean for wildfire resources across the industry.

If you have questions about retardant or the retardant industry, we try to answer those questions.

Eddie is credited with building ICL’s global fire safety business, focusing on products for wildland fire management and municipal and industrial fire suppression. Eddie holds a BS in Chemical Engineering from Cornell University.

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I cover the proposal for the new National Wildfire Fire Service. This has been discussed for decades, and an effort to finally streamline the wildfire bureaucracy now has bipartisan support. It would consolidate all fire agencies under one umbrella.

The USDA sent out a policy email stating that wildland firefighters are not exempt from the hiring freeze, which is paused until the Office of Personnel Management reviews the positions being offered. This issue needs to be resolved quickly to ensure an appropriate workforce can be in place for the summer fire season. It should be a priority.

Wasteful spending by the Wildfire Agencies is under heavy scrutiny right now. All grants have been paused while they are sorted through. Last night, I looked through some grants and spending; some wild things are in there. This is an area of focus for those working on reducing costs.

One foundation that received $564M from the Forest Service has the acting Chief of the Forest Service on its board of directors. I was assured that this was being looked into.

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Today, I cover all the wild reforms inside the wildfire agencies over the last week, how they happened, and why. It’s been a whirlwind of policy changes, website deletions, and top-level control of all IT and servers across the Departments. I even got a sneak peek at the current number of resignations sent in since mass resignation letters were offered to employees.

Workers are still experiencing a great deal of uncertainty as this unfolds. I discuss the flurry of policy decisions that have been made, why the wildfire agencies are being targeted at the top levels, and how everyone will be affected.

But with all that comes hypocrisy that needs to be called out.

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