Sophie Davis joins me to talk about George MacDonald's last fantasy novel, Lilith. Even for George MacDonald, this is a weird book. But if you're familiar with MacDonald's work, you know that wisdom and weirdness often go together like...I don't know...being a librarian, a sexton, a Raven, and the Adam? Or being a leopardess, a very white queen who is afraid of children, and an ancient Canaanite demoness seductress from a waterless world?

Apologies for the audio quality here. Soon enough, episodes will have better audio, but I worry that this will annoy--apologies if it does. Give it a try, anyway, because we get to some really good stuff in this episode.

(Here, by the way, is a link to the article Sophie references listing biblical allusions in Lilith.)

Among other things, we discuss:

Thanks, as always, for listening, and let me know if you have questions or comments. My email is [email protected], and you can always rate and review the show.

See you in a few weeks, when we'll talk about Manly Wade Wellman's The Old Gods Waken.

I know it's been a long wait, and you've had to settle for listening to "The" Joe Rogan Experience or The Daily, or maybe for staring glassy-eyed at a chair or at your friends' faces while they ask you if you're sure you're okay. But you can stop all that now.

We're back.

And we're back with more C.S. Lewis, who in turn is back with a certain poet I like to call John Skelton. Because that was his name. Could he have been England's first rapper? Lil' Skeltie? Tune in and find out.

This week, Dr. Katherine Wyma and I continue our tour of C.S. Lewis' Oxford History of English Literature (Excluding Drama), or, as he liked to call it, "the OHEL," because...he hated writing it.

That said, it's quite clear that the research Lewis conducted for the book--for over a decade--inspired much of his creative work. Further, it's clear that he was interested in what he wrote about here and admired Skelton's poetry, at least a bit.

We're in Book I of The Oxford History of English Literature today--mainly the section marked "The Close of the Middle Ages in England," and we're focusing on Skelton, because he is the most significant poet to write during this time--at least in England. 

(We recorded an earlier episode on "The Close of the Middle Ages in Scotland," but I have, to my great regret, misplaced that file. So if you were hoping to get that Dunbar or Henryson fix we all need sometimes, I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit longer--so sorry!)

So join us (and Lewis) as we mark time with Skelton, thinking about old age, death, and eccentric rhythms that aren't quite meter, but also aren't quite...not meter. Among other things, we discuss:

0:00 — Introduction & the OHEL Project

This is taken from Chapter 2 of 

Here, by the way, are the two most famous Skelton poems we discuss:

The Tunning of Elenor Rumming

The Book of Philip Sparrow

By the way--my reading of these poems is meant to sort of suggest how they sound without going full Middle (or even Early Modern) English on you. So, yes, I realize it's sort of neither fish nor fowl. But it was fun.

If you want to add anything or make any suggestions, or just reach out and say hi, please don't hesitate to contact me at [email protected]. 

Next: George MacDonald's Lilith!

Everyone else is reviewing Nolan's Odyssey. At least I'm doing it the way Alexander Pope would. 

THE ARGUMENT.

If you want to read this review in verse, you can find it on my Substack, which is here: Pipkin's Miscellany. You can subscribe for free.

But how does this connect to the Inklings? Well, Tolkien also used rhyming couplets when he wanted to make a point or two to his friend C.S. Lewis about how myths work. So there's that. 

I'll see you all soon for a deep dive into C.S. Lewis' longest work. 

By the way, the music throughout is from the soundtrack to The Odyssey, which is very good.

Chris talks with Jonathan Geltner about the best (but still flawed) adaptation of The Hobbit.

Get ready for...your greatest adventure!

Among other things, we discuss:

1:32 — The 1977 NBC broadcast

2:31 — Childhood memories of the cartoon

5:48 — Rankin/Bass as directors

5:58 — Rankin's "no additions" philosophy

6:15 — Top Craft & the Studio Ghibli connection

7:39 — Music & the folk singer-songwriter style

8:11 — Critical reception & Hugo nomination

8:36 — What the adaptation kept vs. omitted

9:00 — Songs as background vs. foreground

12:10 — "Greatest Adventure" as anti-escapist message

20:01 — Fantasy's cultural status in the 1970s

21:59 — The Hobbit's cohesion vs. "episodic" label

25:57 — Bilbo's shifting narrative voice in Mirkwood

27:57 — Mirkwood: the weakest section

32:01 — Omitting Beorn & the Arkenstone's consequences

41:07 — Character designs: what works, what doesn't

46:54 — The Wood Elves' unusual look

51:59 — Star Wars, fantasy, and mainstream credibility

55:29 — Tolkien's "long ago in the quiet of the world"

1:00:53 — Oral storytelling tradition vs. film immersion

1:01:44 — One swap: what would you put back?

1:06:30 — Mental visualization & imaginative experience

To read Jonathan's Substack, click here: https://jonathangeltner.substack.com/

To read my (far less illustrious) Substack, click here: https://pipkinsmiscellany.substack.com/

To buy Jonathan's first book, click here: https://slantbooks.org/books/absolute-music/

To email me, click [email protected]

Friend of the show Connor Salter joins me to talk about his new book, The Other Inklings, a book of interviews with current Inklings scholars about C.S. Lewis, Charles Williams, Owen Barfield, and other figures connected with their circle(s). Among other things, we discuss: 

In other news--I have a Substack, now, where I talk about a wide variety of things. Feel free to subscribe.

As always, if you like the show, please rate it on iTunes. And feel free to drop me a line anytime at [email protected]. I'd love to hear from you.

Chris talks with Jonathan Geltner and Eric Geddes about Owen Barfield's fairy tale, The Silver Trumpet--which has the distinction of being the first fairy tale written by an Inkling.

Among other things, we discuss:

Next: The Other Inklings with Connor Salter!

Chris chats with Liz Zenger, program manager of The Inklings Project, which provides resources for professors, teachers, and other groups developing Inklings-related courses.

Also, by way of update, this just in from Liz herself: 

This is currently live for 6-12 teachers! Goes along with your second to last question of the podcast :-)

Call for Proposals

Inklings Project Fellowship for 6-12 Teachers

Applications can be submitted via this link until Aug 1, 2026.  

For the first time in its history, the Inklings Project, under the University of Notre Dame's McGrath Institute for Church Life, is opening its fellowship to middle school and high school educators. Previous cohorts have drawn from college and university faculty; this new two-year cohort, beginning in Fall 2026, will be made up of those who educate in grades 6–12. Middle and high school is when many readers first encounter C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien—and where an educator’s love for these authors can ripple outward to students, parents, and an entire school community.

Among other things, we discuss:

What The Inklings Project is (~0:53) — Liz explains the initiative: supporting faculty to create Inklings courses, providing grants, and building fellowship through a cohort model.

The Wade Center at Wheaton College (~4:10) — The in-person annual gathering for fellows, housing original manuscripts, Tolkien's desk, Lewis's wardrobe, etc.

Diverse faculty backgrounds (~6:30) — How professors from biology, business, public relations, and other non-literary fields are teaching Inklings courses, and why that breadth matters.

The origin story of the project (~10:20) — Liz traces it from a CS Lewis course she took as a freshman at Brown, to founding a student society, to pitching the idea to Notre Dame's McGrath Institute.

The challenge of reading loads & expanding to high schools (~17:30) — How professors handle the sheer volume of Inklings material, and the project's potential future cohort for high school and homeschool teachers.

Next Week: At long last, The Silver Trumpet!

Dr. Luke Mills joins me to talk about his article "His Dark Materials," as well as C.S. Lewis' nightmare imagery across his fiction. Among other things, we discuss:

As always, if you want to get in touch, email me at [email protected]

Rate the show if you like it and haven't rated it yet.

Chris talks a bit about his first scholarly book, Monster Relics in Medieval English Literature, and what it has to do with Jimmy Stewart sneaking a Yeti finger past customs.

You can find it here. Be sure to enter the promo code "RELICS20" to get it for $40 rather than $50 before August 20. 

A new full episode will appear Tuesday!

Dr. Leslie Baynes returns to the podcast to talk about biblical and literary allusions in (and origins of) The Magician's Nephew! If you haven't already, check out her book, Between Interpretation and Imagination: C.S. Lewis and the Bible.

Among other things, we discuss: 

1:37 — Introductions Chris introduces Dr. Leslie Baynes — NT scholar, author on CS Lewis and the Bible.

3:30 — Stars, Singing & Job 38 Discussion of how Aslan's creation song echoes Job 38 ("the morning stars sang together"). Lewis loved this verse even as a teenage atheist.

6:07 — Hebrew Poetic Parallelism Leslie explains Hebrew poetic parallelism and the connection between "stars" and "sons of God" in Job. How this idea — that stars are divine beings — was widespread in the ancient world.

9:09 — Stars as Minor Gods in Narnia & Tolkien Voyage of the Dawn Treader's Ramandu as a retired star; comparison to Tolkien's Ainur singing creation into existence in the Silmarillion.

11:58 — E. Nesbit as a Source for Lewis Lewis openly based the Chronicles on E. Nesbit's children's books. The frame story of The Magician's Nephew (sick mother, absent father, magical adventure, happy resolution) follows Nesbit's formula exactly.

18:04 — The Wood Between the Worlds & Charn These sections feel less biblical; Charn likely drawn from Nesbit's The Amulet (children traveling through time to an ancient Near Eastern setting). The Wood Between the Worlds echoes Lewis's Mere Christianity hallway metaphor.

23:03 — Jadis/White Witch & Lilith Luke Mills found a passage in the medieval kabbalistic Alphabet of Ben Sira linking Lilith to a golden bell — possible indirect influence on Lewis's Witch origin story.

26:08 — Narnia's Creation vs. Genesis Aslan creates stars first — Lewis "correcting" the light-before-sun problem in Genesis 1. Frank and Helen as Adam & Eve; their children marrying nymphs and dryads resolves the "who did Cain marry?" puzzle.

31:22 — The Garden of the Hesperides The western garden in The Magician's Nephew blends the Garden of Eden with the Greek Garden of the Hesperides (Atlas's daughters, golden apples, a guardian dragon/serpent). Lewis changed the apples to silver — possibly echoing Yeats's "silver apples of the moon."

34:45 — Milton's Comus & Watchful Dragons Lewis adored Comus as a teenager. His famous "past watchful dragons" metaphor connects to the guardian dragon of the Hesperides (who keeps people away from the apples), inverting the Eden serpent (who tempts people toward the fruit).

39:48 — Joy, West, and the Last Battle The western garden = "Joy" (sehnsucht) for Lewis. In The Last Battle, the characters run west, then turn east to their final home — fulfilling joy rather than endlessly pursuing it. Same arc as The Pilgrim's Regress.

42:25 — Lewis as a "Magpie" Creator Lewis freely borrowed from everything — Nesbit, Milton, Job, the Hesperides — without apology. Discussion of his view (in Mere Christianity) that true originality comes from surrender to God, not self-invention.

45:43 — Pagan vs. Christian — A False Split Lewis (like Justin Martyr) believed all truth is God's truth. Anything good in "pagan" sources can be integrated into a Christian worldview — rejecting the idea that they must be kept entirely separate.