The Innovative Therapist

Episode 175. A podcast conversation about community, courage, enoughness, and our upcoming Mother-Daughter Guatemala Adventure

There are some things we can learn just by reading about it.

And then there are (many other) things we need to experience.

This is one of the reasons I’ve fallen back in love with culturally immersive travel in my 40s.

I first traveled to Honduras when I was in college, and something about it in hindsight feels like what became a spiritual path. I loved learning Spanish. I loved experiencing a culture different from my own. And I loved being reminded that the way I had learned to see the world was only one way of seeing it.

Then life happened.

Graduate school. Building a career. Raising kids. All the achieving and doing that can slowly crowd out the things that once made us feel most alive.

Over the last few years, I’ve found myself returning to those parts of myself.

And next April, I’m taking my daughter Claire with me.

I’m co-hosting a Mother-Daughter Guatemala Adventure with Christina and Owen of Culture Chalk, and in this episode of The Innovative Therapist Podcast, I sat down with them to talk about how this experience came to be.

Christina and Owen have five children and moved their family from British Columbia to Guatemala in 2021.

What began as something they called “The Giving Experiment” eventually grew into Culture Chalk and a life deeply embedded in their local Guatemalan community.

Their original experiment was simple:

What would happen if they stopped making money and return on investment the primary factors in their decisions?

What would happen if they tried to actually live out their values around generosity, community, and loving their neighbors?

Their answers didn’t come from sitting around thinking about these questions.

They came from living them.

And that theme kept coming up throughout our conversation:

Some things can only really be learned through experience.

As parents, we tell our kids to share.

We tell them to be grateful.

We might tell them that having more stuff won’t necessarily make them happier.

We tell them to be kind and generous.

We might remind them that other people live differently than we do.

But what happens when they actually get to experience another way of living?

Owen and Christina described watching their own children become more resourceful, compassionate, and generous as they grew up immersed in their Guatemalan community.

They also shared something that really stuck with me:

If we want our children to learn generosity, what does it look like for them to actually watch us give?

Not just giving away something we don’t need anymore.

Giving when it costs us something.

Not just telling our kids what matters.

Living it in front of them.

That’s part of what excites me so much about taking Claire on this trip.

At one point in our conversation, Christina and Owen described bringing kids into a local family’s home.

A child might look around and ask:

Where are the beds?

And discover that one bed is shared by an entire family.

But that same family might be joyfully welcoming visitors into their home, offering them coffee and bread.

Suddenly, a child is holding two realities at once.

Material scarcity.

And deep generosity.

Hardship.

And joy.

There doesn’t have to be a lecture afterward.

The experience itself creates the questions.

What does it actually mean to have enough?

What makes someone wealthy?

What do I really need to be happy?

What matters to me?

Those are questions I want my kids to have the opportunity to wrestle with.

And frankly, they’re questions I want to keep wrestling with myself.

One of my favorite parts of our conversation was hearing about how community functions where Christina and Owen live.

They described women gathering at Lake Atitlán to wash clothes together.

Yes, washing clothes at home would be easier.

But doing laundry at the lake means talking, laughing, sharing stories, watching children play, and being together.

We talked about how much of modern life has been designed around convenience.

Grocery pickup.

Self-checkout.

Delivery.

Technology that allows us to do almost everything without needing another human being.

And yet so many of us feel lonely.

Maybe convenience isn’t always the same thing as nourishment.

Maybe needing one another isn’t a problem we need to engineer out of our lives.

And maybe community itself asks something of us.

It asks us to tolerate discomfort. To navigate conflict. To interact with people who see the world differently than we do. To stay curious.

Those are muscles I want my kids to develop.

They’re muscles I want to keep developing, too.

This piece feels especially important to me because of the work I’ve done for years around binge eating, body image, and our relationship with food.

I know firsthand how much life can get swallowed up by worrying about food and our bodies.

Our appearance.

Our weight.

And one of the questions I hear from women all the time is:

How do I keep my daughter from inheriting this?

There’s no perfect answer.

But I know I want Claire to experience her body as the incredible vehicle through which she gets to experience her life.

Taste incredible food.

Walk through a colorful market.

Learn.

Dance.

Explore.

Connect.

And yes, climb a freaking volcano (an inactive one… don’t worry!). 🌋

I want our girls to experience deeply nourishing themselves physically, emotionally, spiritually, and relationally, while discovering just how much their bodies allow them to do.

The mother-daughter experience Christina and Owen and their family created came partly from Christina reflecting on her own transition into womanhood and asking herself:

How do I want this to be different for my daughters?

How do we create openness?

Trust?

Compassion?

How do we make room for conversations that everyday life doesn’t always give us space to have?

School. Work. Activities. Phones. Laundry. Emails. Dinner. Repeat.

Even when we desperately love our kids, it can be surprisingly difficult to create the space to simply be with them.

That’s part of why travel has been so powerful for me and Claire.

She still talks about a trip we took to Costa Rica together. She remembers what it felt like when it was just the two of us exploring somewhere new.

Those experiences become part of our shared history.

As Owen put it in our conversation, even nine days can become a fundamental memory a child returns to:

I was important.

My mom chose this time with me.

I learned something about myself here.

And that, more than checking Guatemala off a travel bucket list for Claire, is why I’m going.

We’ll spend part of our time in San Juan La Laguna on Lake Atitlán, immersed in the community where Christina, Owen and their 5 kids live and works.

The experience includes things like traditional weaving and chocolate making, visiting the market, learning about Mayan history and traditions, exploring villages around Lake Atitlán, cooking and eating incredible local food, and an Amazing Race-style scavenger hunt where the girls get to practice Spanish and navigate the town.

Then we’ll travel to Antigua and build toward one pretty spectacular finale:

Hiking Acatenango and spending the night overlooking an active volcano. 🌋

Culture Chalk has intentionally designed the experience to gently move families outside their comfort zones while providing support throughout the trip.

For me, that’s a huge piece of this.

International travel can feel intimidating, especially if you haven’t done much of it with your kids.

Group travel helped me build my own confidence traveling internationally with Claire. And interestingly, I had already traveled to San Juan before I ever met Christina and Owen.

They had no idea when they reached out to me.

And in one of the restaurants they visit often (their final goodbye parties are often there) is where I was hit with an inner knowing to “create family based play and connection experiences.”

Just a few of the several strange little synchronicities that made me think:

Okay. Maybe I’m supposed to pay attention to this.

Good. I get it.

When we first started talking seriously about co-hosting this trip, I had the immediate feeling of:

YES. This feels right.

And then some fearful parts showed up.

Not necessarily logical fears. Just the normal uncertainty that comes with doing something new.

As Christina talks about in the episode, courage doesn’t mean waiting until fear disappears.

Sometimes it’s noticing the fear and getting curious about what lies on the other side of it, and taking the aligned action anyway.

So if you’re reading this with a daughter in mind and feeling that little tug of I want to do something like this with her, I’d encourage you to pay attention to it.

You don’t have to decide anything today.

Start with a conversation.

Next April, Claire and I will be joining Christina, her daughter, and a small group of mothers and daughters for this experience in Guatemala, and I’d love to have you with us.

You can learn more about the Mother-Daughter Guatemala Adventure through Culture Chalk and secure your spot here:
https://culturechalk.org/mother-daughter

And if you’re curious but have questions about whether this would be a good fit for you and your daughter, email me directly at [email protected].

I’m happy to talk through the experience, hop on a call and answer questions, or help you figure out whether joining us feels right for your family.

Sometimes the experiences that change us aren’t the ones that make our lives easier.

They’re the ones that help us see our lives differently.

And I can’t wait to experience this one alongside our daughters.

Episode 174: How Creativity and Movement Can Help You Heal Trauma and Rebuild Self-Trust with Hannah Sullivan

Feeling disconnected from yourself—or wondering what a more authentic, energizing life could look like?

Download my free guide, Beyond the Default, for stories and reflection questions to help you reconnect with what you truly want.

In this episode of The Innovative Therapist Podcast, I talk with therapist, choreographer, and dancer Hannah Sullivan about creativity, movement, trauma healing, and self-expression.

Hannah shares how dance helped her process complex trauma, connect with her body, and develop a deep sense of autonomy. We also explore how creative practices can help us:

Hannah also shares the story behind her documentary films about choosing a preventative mastectomy and going flat—and what it was like to transform an intensely personal experience into art that has helped others feel less alone.

You do not need to be a dancer or consider yourself creative to begin. Creativity might mean moving your body, coloring, scribbling, writing, or trying something unfamiliar. The invitation is simply to notice: What helps you feel more present, expressed, and fully yourself?

I currently have openings for 1:1 work with thoughtful people who want to change longstanding patterns involving perfectionism, people-pleasing, self-neglect, disordered or emotional eating, and difficulty trusting themselves.

You can learn more about individual therapy or coaching. You’re also welcome to email me directly at [email protected] for details and to explore which option may be the best fit.

Episode 168: Creativity Is Not a “Soft Skill” — Building Community, Belonging, & Brave Leadership with Hannah Berry

✨ Free resource: Create a Life Beyond the Default (PLUS free Workshop Weds Sept 9th 1-2pm EST, download the guide below and email Shawn at [email protected] to join us for free)
Download the Guide Here

Creativity isn’t extra… it’s essential to economically thriving communities.

In this episode of The Innovative Therapist Podcast, I sat down with Hannah Berry, founder of Lions & Rabbits Center for the Arts, for a powerful conversation about creativity, leadership, public art, community-building, and why creative thinking may be one of the most important skills we need moving forward.

Hannah’s work sits at the intersection of art, activism, economic development, education, and belonging. What started as an art gallery evolved into murals, public art, weddings, placemaking, workforce development, and cross-sector community leadership.

And throughout this conversation, one message became incredibly clear:

Creativity is not “soft”.

It is strategy.
It is healing.
It is leadership.
And it is deeply needed right now.

✨ Why creativity and “soft skills” are actually essential leadership skills
✨ How public art, play, and community spaces shape healing and belonging
✨ The connection between creativity, innovation, and economic development
✨ Why therapists, artists, educators, and entrepreneurs need each other
✨ The invisible labor women often carry in leadership and caregiving roles
✨ The role of boundaries, delegation, and support in sustainable leadership
✨ Why intergenerational creative spaces matter for healing and community
✨ How creativity may help us navigate the future of AI, burnout, and disconnection

Hannah Berry is the Founder and Executive Director of Lions & Rabbits Center for the Arts, where she leads artist-driven public art and placemaking initiatives focused on strengthening community connection and creative economies.

Over the past decade, Hannah has partnered with cities, institutions, artists, and community organizations to reimagine how public spaces can foster belonging, civic engagement, and cross-sector collaboration. In addition to her local work, she is involved in national cultural advocacy through Americans for the Arts, supporting efforts to advance creative workforce development and increase recognition for creators as an essential part of thriving communities.

Hannah is passionate about empowering creative leaders to solve complex social challenges and build sustainable, arts-based economies.

One of my favorite parts of this conversation was exploring how creativity helps people reconnect with themselves, their bodies, and each other.

We talked about:

And how healing often happens far beyond the walls of a therapy office.

As Hannah said throughout the episode, creativity touches everything.

Not just art.
Communication.
Facilitation.
Innovation.
Problem-solving.
Systems change.
Belonging.

In a world increasingly shaped by AI, burnout, polarization, and disconnection, this conversation felt especially important.

Hannah makes a compelling case that creative thinkers are not “extra” to society. They are essential to helping communities adapt, collaborate, and imagine new possibilities.

We also explored the importance of getting “the right people in the right rooms” and why cross-sector collaboration matters so much when solving complex social problems.

This episode deeply affirmed something I’ve been feeling in my own life and work:

Creativity is not separate from healing.

For many of us, creativity becomes the pathway back to:

And maybe most importantly… back to ourselves.

Hannah referenced several national advocacy efforts throughout this conversation related to arts funding, public policy, and creative workforce development.

🔗 Americans for the Arts
🔗 Americans for the Arts Action Center

🌐 Lions & Rabbits Website
📸 Lions & Rabbits Instagram

💌 Join my email list for podcast updates, creative inspiration, and upcoming events:
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Disclaimer:
This blog and podcast are for informational and educational purposes only. They do not constitute medical or mental health advice and are not a substitute for professional consultation or treatment.

✨ Free resource: Uncover Your Zone of Genius
Download the Guide Here

What happens when therapists begin listening to the quiet pull toward something different?

In this episode of The Innovative Therapist Podcast, I sat down with Robyn Gobbel for a rich and deeply honest conversation about parenting, entrepreneurship, nervous systems, innovative business models, community-building, and what it really means to help people heal outside traditional systems.

Robyn is the founder of The Baffling Behavior Training Institute, host of The Baffling Behavior Show, creator of The Club membership community for parents of kids with “big baffling behaviors,” and author of Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors.

And honestly?

This conversation felt like such an important reminder that there are many ways to create healing, connection, and impact in the world.

✨ Why Robyn stepped away from traditional clinical work
✨ The realities of entrepreneurship and building an online business
✨ Parenting kids with “big baffling behaviors” through a nervous system lens
✨ Why community and co-regulation matter so deeply for parents
✨ The overlap between creativity, leadership, parenting, and entrepreneurship
✨ How therapists can use their gifts outside traditional models
✨ The emotional complexity of leaving the therapy room
✨ Why experimentation and flexibility matter in innovative work

Robyn shared how she spent years working almost exclusively with children impacted by complex trauma, particularly kids adopted from foster care and internationally.

Over time, she began teaching and training other clinicians simply because the need was so enormous and there weren’t enough providers with specialized knowledge.

But eventually, through a combination of life circumstances, the pandemic, entrepreneurship, and evolving family needs, Robyn realized she wasn’t going back to traditional one-on-one therapy work.

And one of my favorite parts of this conversation was how honestly she talked about that transition.

Not from a place of:
“I hated therapy.”

But from a place of:
“There may be another way to use my gifts.”

I think so many therapists quietly wonder this.

We also had a very real conversation about online business culture, digital courses, entrepreneurship, and the myths therapists are often sold about building businesses online.

Robyn shared how she initially found success with digital courses because she had already spent years blogging and building an audience organically. But she also realized pretty quickly that courses alone didn’t feel deeply satisfying or impactful because many people simply weren’t completing them.

And honestly? I appreciated how transparent this part of the conversation was.

Because both of us reflected on how easy it is for therapists to internalize:
“If this isn’t working, I must be doing something wrong.”

When in reality:
Building a business is genuinely hard.

Especially in today’s landscape.

One of the most moving parts of the conversation was hearing Robyn talk about her membership community for parents.

She described parents arriving in the space completely exhausted, overwhelmed, and stripped of any energy for pretending or performing.

And yet…

What she’s built is a deeply compassionate, regulated, vulnerable community where parents support each other in profoundly healing ways.

As she talked about watching these parents show up for each other, I genuinely got emotional listening to her describe it.

Because this is the kind of work I think many of us are craving:

Not just information.

Connection.

Another major theme woven throughout this episode was the importance of experimentation, creativity, and flexibility.

Robyn described entrepreneurship almost like a process of:

At one point she shared that she had to untangle business outcomes from her sense of self-worth and instead approach entrepreneurship more playfully:

“I’ll try this. Wow, okay. That didn’t go the way I wanted, so I’ll try something else.”

Honestly? I loved this framing.

Because I think many therapists and helpers are brilliant at overthinking and under-practicing experimentation.

And yet creativity, leadership, parenting, and entrepreneurship all seem to require some willingness to stay flexible, playful, and responsive.

One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation was this:

There are so many ways to help people heal.

Sometimes that looks like therapy.

Sometimes it looks like:

And maybe part of building an aligned life is allowing ourselves to imagine that our gifts can take many different forms.

Robyn Gobbel is the host of The Baffling Behavior Show and founder of The Baffling Behavior Training Institute.

She is the creator of the BBTI Immersion Program for Professionals and The Club, a virtual community supporting parents of kids with big baffling behaviors.

Robyn is also the author of the USA Today bestselling book Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors, praised by leaders including Stephen Porges, Tina Payne Bryson, and Laura Markham. Her upcoming guided journal companion releases September 2026.

🌐 Robyn Gobbel’s Website

✨ Download the free Uncover Your Zone of Genius guide:
Zone of Genius Guide

💌 Join my email list for podcast updates, creative inspiration, and upcoming events:
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Disclaimer:
This blog and podcast are for informational and educational purposes only. They do not constitute medical or mental health advice and are not a substitute for professional consultation or treatment.

Are you ready to stop letting shame, fear, or people-pleasing make your decisions for you? I offer a free 30-minute consultation for people who are curious about working with me through therapy or coaching. We can talk about what you’re navigating, what you want to change, and whether I might be the right person to support you.

Book a free consultation with me →

Episode 171. You Don’t Need More Information. You Need More Self-Trust.

There is no shortage of information about how to heal, work, parent, lead, build a business, or create a meaningful life.

We can read the books. Listen to the podcasts. Hire the experts. Ask ChatGPT. Learn the strategies. Collect more credentials.

And yet, sometimes we still don’t do the thing we already know to do.

I’m increasingly convinced that, in those moments, what we need isn’t more information.

We need the inner self-trust and leadership to use what we already know.

For a long time, I tried to earn worthiness through achievement. I worked hard. I collected the letters after my name. Those credentials gave me knowledge, opportunities, and a certain kind of confidence—but they could not make me feel worthy.

No credential can do that.

I see a similar dynamic in therapists and other helpers all the time. We can hide behind our training and expertise while avoiding our own deeper work. We may know how shame operates, yet still let it lead our businesses. We may help clients set boundaries while struggling to advocate for what we need. We may encourage others to value themselves while feeling guilty about charging enough to support our own lives.

Money can make these patterns especially visible, but the deeper issue usually isn’t money.

It’s worthiness.

It’s whether we believe we’re allowed to receive support. Whether we trust ourselves to make choices that depart from the default. Whether we can tolerate being visible without immediately trying to prove, overdeliver, or make ourselves smaller again.

I recently listened to a podcast conversation with a therapist who charges $600 per session—and receives a tremendous amount of criticism for it.

I understand the importance of examining power and ethics in helping relationships. Therapists do hold role power, and harmful or exploitative sales practices deserve scrutiny at any price point.

But I also think another person’s choices can activate our own unexamined beliefs.

When someone’s rate, boundary, visibility, or success triggers us, we can immediately turn outward and judge them. Or we can become curious about what their choice is bringing up in us.

Are we resentful because we don’t feel free to make our own choices?

Have we accepted chronic overwork as the price of being a “good” helper?

Are we blaming an individual for failing to repair an entire broken system?

Is a part of us jealous—and can we be honest enough to listen to what that jealousy might be trying to tell us?

This kind of curiosity isn’t always comfortable. But it can show us where we’ve been operating from fear, shame, or an identity we no longer want to inhabit.

This has also changed how I think about investing in support.

We’re often taught to evaluate an experience transactionally: How many calls do I get? How many modules? What tangible result will this produce? What exactly am I getting for my money?

Those questions aren’t wrong. But they can miss the most valuable part of a truly transformational container.

The right therapist, coach, community, or retreat doesn’t simply transfer information to you. It helps you become someone who can access and act from your own wisdom.

That kind of shift can be difficult to quantify:

These shifts may be invisible, but they change everything.

I’ve experienced this in my own business.

When I create something—a retreat, a community, a small event—there can still be a part of me that worries about what people will think if it doesn’t fill. That part would sometimes prefer to stop talking about the thing, give up early, and avoid the risk of visible failure.

In the past, I might have mistaken that protective reaction for intuition.

Now, I’m more able to recognize it as shame.

I can return to the questions that reflect my actual inner leadership: Do I believe this experience is worth attending? Do I know it could be meaningful for the right person? If so, what is the most aligned next action?

Usually, the answer is to keep sharing and inviting people in—openheartedly and unapologetically.

The goal isn’t to eliminate fear or shame before we act. It’s to build enough capacity that those feelings no longer make our decisions for us.

For a while, I thought I needed to move away from therapy to experience more freedom in my work. A rebellious part of me was exhausted by the rules and wanted room to create.

I needed to listen to that part rather than immediately talk her out of what she felt.

Eventually, I realized that deep 1:1 work is still some of the most fulfilling work I do. I didn’t have to abandon it. I needed to find my own way of practicing—one that allowed for depth, creativity, embodiment, honest relationship, and enough space to remain fully human.

Someone else could suggest that answer to me, but I had to discover it for myself.

That is true of so many of the dilemmas we face. A good guide does not dictate the answer or ask you to hand over your authority. They help you hear yourself more clearly. They help you see possibilities that shame and fear have made difficult to imagine. They support you as you build the capacity to choose.

Most of us have absorbed some version of the default:

I don’t want the default.

I want a life with room for meaningful work, play, creativity, deep connection, rest, and the full messiness of being human. I want to make decisions rooted in self-trust rather than fear of failure. And I want to help other people discover that this way of living is possible for them, too.

The work isn’t about becoming fearless. It’s about becoming more fully yourself.

It’s being able to say: This is me. This is what I need. This is what matters to me. And I trust myself enough to move toward it.

That transformation is worth our time, energy, and investment—not because we need to fix who we are, but because we deserve the opportunity to live from who we actually are.

I work with people who are ready to unlearn people-pleasing, reconnect with their inner wisdom, and build a life that feels more nourishing and alive. My areas of expertise include anxiety, the fawn response, binge and emotional eating, chronic dieting, body trust, and the impact of complex relational patterns. Depending on your needs and location, we may be able to work together through therapy or coaching.

Book a free 30-minute consultation →

We’ll talk about what you’re experiencing, what you want to become possible, and whether working together feels like the right next step.

✨ Free resource: Uncover Your Zone of Genius
Download the Guide Here

What if the thing many adults dismiss as “unproductive” is actually the very thing we’re all starving for?

In this episode of The Innovative Therapist Podcast, I sat down with Kara Latta, founder of The Playful Warrior, for a deeply honest and energizing conversation about play, perfectionism, visibility, entrepreneurship, creativity, and what it really means to come alive again.

Kara helps adults reconnect with play, spontaneity, joy, and freedom — especially high-achieving perfectionists who have become disconnected from themselves through years of overthinking, pressure, productivity, and self-consciousness.

And honestly? This conversation felt like a giant exhale.

✨ Why play is essential for creativity, healing, and nervous system flexibility
✨ Kara’s journey from PR executive to play coach and retreat host
✨ The fear of being seen, visible, playful, or “too much”
✨ Why adults often resist play — even when they deeply crave it
✨ Entrepreneurship as a path of self-discovery and self-trust
✨ The connection between spontaneity, creativity, and innovation
✨ Why over-preparing and perfectionism disconnect us from aliveness
✨ How following “playful breadcrumbs” can completely change your life

Kara Latta is changing the world through the power of play. As the Founder of The Playful Warrior, she helps ambitious, sensitive humans overcome perfectionism and rediscover joy, confidence, and creativity through the ✨ magic of play ✨.

Her playful approach to healing perfectionism has resonated with thousands, and she has been featured on The Morning Show, Breakfast Television, and Shondaland.

Kara’s message is simple: play is anything but fluffy. It’s a powerful way to break free from self-doubt, unlock creativity, and make life feel more fun, meaningful, and fulfilling.

One of my favorite parts of this conversation was hearing Kara talk about realizing how disconnected she had become from freedom and joy.

Not because she lacked creativity.
Not because she lacked talent.

But because so much energy was going toward:

I think so many therapists, helpers, and entrepreneurs will resonate with this.

Because often the real question isn’t:
“How do I become more creative?”

It’s:
“How do I feel safe enough to actually let myself play?”

Kara shared how reconnecting with play during one of the hardest seasons of her life completely transformed her relationship with herself and eventually became her life’s work.

And throughout this conversation, one message became incredibly clear:

Play is not a waste of time.

Play helps us reconnect with:

In a world constantly telling adults to optimize, produce, hustle, and perform… play can feel wildly uncomfortable.

But maybe that discomfort is actually pointing us toward something important.

We also had a really honest conversation about entrepreneurship and how building meaningful work often requires becoming a completely different version of yourself.

We talked about:

At one point, Kara described entrepreneurship as:

“a wild self-discovery spiritual journey.”

And honestly… I deeply agree.

The more I reflect on this conversation, the more I keep coming back to this idea:

Maybe play without a clear purpose isn’t frivolous.

Maybe it’s the lifeforce many of us have lost touch with.

And maybe reconnecting with it is part of how we heal, innovate, connect, create, lead, and fully inhabit our lives again.

🌐 The Playful Warrior Website
📸 The Playful Warrior Instagram

Kara offers retreats, coaching, playful experiences, and free resources to help adults reconnect with creativity and joy.

✨ Download the free Uncover Your Zone of Genius guide:
Zone of Genius Guide

💌 Join my email list for podcast updates, creative inspiration, and upcoming events:
Join the Newsletter

Disclaimer:
This blog and podcast are for informational and educational purposes only. They do not constitute medical or mental health advice and are not a substitute for professional consultation or treatment.

If you’ve been feeling pulled toward something new but aren’t sure what it is (or you’re struggling to trust it), download my free Zone of Genius Guide. It’s designed to help therapists, helpers, and creatives reconnect with the work that feels most alive and aligned.

Download it here.

Last week, I shared that I was learning to detach my worth from outcomes.

And I meant it.

I had created a mother-daughter play and connection event that I felt incredibly proud of—even before anyone signed up.

My retreat wasn’t full, and I was still able to feel excited about what I was creating.

That felt like a huge shift.

Then this week, something happened that brought the old shame story rushing right back.

I noticed a spot on my neck that might have been a simple irritation—or might have been shingles returning only two months after I’d had it the first time.

I didn’t know yet.

But almost immediately, a familiar part of me said:

Something is wrong.

You must be failing.

You should have taken better care of yourself.

And then another part wanted to criticize me for still having that reaction at all.

Apparently, I wasn’t healed enough.

In this episode, I’m sharing an honest look at what inner leadership actually looks like when shame, uncertainty, and self-doubt show up—and why healing doesn’t mean we never get triggered again.

✨ Why healing doesn’t mean difficult feelings or old shame stories never return

✨ How self-criticism can use the language of growth against us: You should be more healed by now

✨ What it means to let an ashamed or frightened part matter without letting it run your life

✨ The difference between pushing through pain and creating alongside it

✨ Why I cannot analyze my way out of every painful experience

✨ How entrepreneurship has helped me become more connected, grounded, and alive—even when the outcomes are difficult to measure

✨ Why asking for support can be an act of discernment rather than evidence that we’re incapable

✨ What it means to build a life that feels good now instead of waiting for some future milestone

For years, I think I imagined healing as reaching a place where certain feelings simply wouldn’t happen anymore.

I wouldn’t feel as much shame.

I wouldn’t question myself.

I wouldn’t get pulled into the familiar story that if something went wrong, I must have done something wrong.

And I have changed.

Business outcomes don’t derail me in the same way they once did. I have more capacity to notice disappointment without turning it into a verdict about my worth. I recover more quickly when a critical part gets activated.

But growth doesn’t mean the old story never visits.

This week reminded me that shame is remarkably flexible.

If it isn’t focused on business, it can focus on my health.

Or parenting.

Or how well I’m taking care of myself.

The circumstances change, but the message stays the same:

If something hurts, goes wrong, or remains outside your control, you must have caused it somehow.

My growth isn’t that I never hear that story anymore.

It’s that I have much less shame about having shame.

Inner leadership isn’t sitting above our emotions, perfectly calm and unaffected.

It also isn’t allowing every frightened, disappointed, or critical part to take over our whole system.

To me, it sounds more like:

I see you.

You’re allowed to be here.

You matter to me.

And you don’t have to run the show.

That day, I let myself cry because I felt disappointed and scared.

I reached out to my doctor.

I told my husband and my coach what was happening instead of sitting alone inside it.

Then I recorded this podcast episode.

Not because I needed to push through, prove my productivity, or pretend I was fine.

Because creating with an experience is one way I make meaning from it.

There’s a difference between pushing past pain and creating alongside it.

The difficult feeling was still present.

It just wasn’t making every decision.

That, to me, is inner leadership.

As a psychologist and researcher, I’ve spent much of my life learning how to analyze, explain, justify, and defend.

Those are useful skills.

I still love learning.

But I keep encountering a truth that intellectual understanding cannot resolve:

I cannot analyze away my pain.

No amount of information can completely prevent uncertainty, disappointment, fear, or shame.

And knowing why I feel something isn’t the same as allowing myself to experience it without abandoning myself.

Sometimes the next step isn’t another explanation.

Sometimes it’s letting myself feel what is true, receiving support, and deciding how I want to live while the answer is still unclear.

When entrepreneurship feels tiring or uncertain, a part of me still asks:

Why are you doing this?

Why not return to a more traditional job?

Why not focus only on private practice, see clients, write my notes, and be done?

There’s nothing wrong with either of those choices.

But I keep a handwritten list near my desk called Why I’m Choosing the Less-Traveled Path.

I add to it whenever I remember something important.

Because I only get one life.

Because it isn’t too late to show younger Shawn that her ideas mattered and she was enough.

Because entrepreneurship is hard, but it’s also fun.

Because I love meeting interesting people and feeling connected to my community.

Because flexibility allows me to experience more of my life now.

Because becoming a better inner leader helps me become a better leader for my children.

The outcomes that matter most aren’t always the easiest ones to measure.

I may not yet have a perfectly predictable stream of income from every part of my Zone of Genius.

But I’m more connected to my community.

I have more interesting relationships and collaborations.

I’m more grounded with my kids.

I have greater choice and self-trust around my work.

And because I’m no longer overworking, I actually feel more engaged in the clinical work I still choose to do.

Those changes count—even when they don’t fit neatly into a spreadsheet.

I’m currently reading Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.

One idea that struck me is that freedom from external pressure comes, in part, from learning to find meaning and reward in our ongoing experience—not only in the goals society teaches us to chase.

We’re surrounded by promises that the next achievement will finally change how we feel.

More money will make us secure.

More status will make us worthy.

Greater productivity will make us good.

But what happens when we reach the milestone and still feel like ourselves?

Enjoying the process doesn’t mean enjoying every moment.

Some experiences are simply painful, tedious, or hard.

It can mean becoming an active participant in the process instead of treating our current life as an obstacle between us and a better future.

The question becomes less:

How quickly can I finish this?

And more:

How do I want to experience my life while I’m here?

This question also shows up in ordinary decisions.

Recently, I hired a personal trainer for two 30-minute strength sessions each week.

I show up, work hard, and don’t have to spend energy planning the workout.

Delegating that mental load has created far more relief than I expected.

It made me wonder where else I’m spending energy simply because I believe I should be able to handle something myself.

Meal planning is one example.

I don’t mind basic cooking.

What drains me is monitoring what we have, deciding what everyone will eat, maintaining the grocery list, buying the food, and carrying the entire plan in my head.

So I’ve been considering hiring a few hours of household support each week.

Even sharing that brings up vulnerability.

Will people think I’m privileged?

Indulgent?

Incapable of managing my own home?

But inner leadership requires discernment—not automatic self-denial.

Where is discomfort asking me to grow?

Where is my intuition asking me to choose differently?

What kind of support would create more capacity for the relationships and experiences that matter most?

The point isn’t that everyone should become an entrepreneur or hire household help.

The point is that we’re allowed to question defaults that leave us depleted.

Parents of young children are often told that life will simply be exhausting for a while.

Entrepreneurs are told to hustle now so they can live later.

Helpers are taught to keep giving because they’re capable of carrying more.

But I don’t want to wait until retirement, until my children are grown, until I earn enough, or until every vulnerable part of me is healed before I begin living.

I want to feel connected to myself now.

I want meaningful time with my family and friends now.

I want to participate in my community now.

I want to create work and a life that feel mutually nourishing now.

Inner leadership doesn’t promise a life without fear, shame, or uncertainty.

It gives us a different way to meet those experiences—with honesty, support, self-compassion, and choice.

Our feelings get to matter without becoming the sole authors of our lives.

Maybe healing isn’t never getting triggered.

Maybe it’s learning not to abandon ourselves when we do.

If this episode resonated with you, I’d love to hear from you.

You can:

Sometimes one honest conversation is the beginning of everything.

This podcast and blog are intended for educational and informational purposes only and are not a substitute for psychotherapy, medical care, or individualized mental health treatment. If you’re struggling with your mental or physical health, please seek support from a qualified healthcare professional.

If you’ve been feeling pulled toward something new but aren’t sure what it is (or you’re struggling to trust it), download my free Zone of Genius Guide. It’s designed to help therapists, helpers, and creatives reconnect with the work that feels most alive and aligned.

Download it here:
https://pages.drshawnhondorp.com/zone

Today I launched something I’ve never created before.

A mother-daughter connection event called Color Outside the Lines.

As I recorded this podcast, exactly zero people had signed up.

And honestly?

I still felt incredibly proud.

That sentence would have been impossible for me to say five years ago.

For most of my life, my confidence, sense of worth, and ability to relax were directly tied to outcomes. Grades. Achievement. Being liked. Podcast downloads. Retreat registrations. Business revenue.

In this episode, I’m sharing what’s shifted, why entrepreneurship has become one of the greatest healing experiences of my life, and why I think focusing on identity may be even more powerful than focusing on outcomes.

✨ Why entrepreneurship became one of the deepest healing experiences of my life

✨ The surprising shift from measuring success by outcomes to measuring it by identity

✨ How following “creative breadcrumbs” led me to create a mother-daughter event I never could have planned

✨ Why meaningful work often brings both incredible joy and unexpected grief

✨ Why we need community when we’re building a life that feels aligned

✨ What it really means to trust yourself before you have proof

For years, I believed I was simply “goal-oriented.”

Looking back, I can see that something much deeper was happening.

My nervous system only relaxed after receiving external validation.

If things were going well, I felt okay.

If they weren’t, I questioned everything about myself.

Entrepreneurship didn’t create that pattern.

It exposed it.

And once I could finally see it, I had the opportunity to begin healing it.

I’ve often encouraged people to enjoy the process rather than obsess over the outcome.

Recently, I heard someone describe it a little differently:

Focus on identity instead.

That language immediately clicked.

Instead of asking:

“Did this work?”

I’ve started asking:

“Who am I becoming while I create this?”

That simple shift has changed how I show up in my business, my parenting, and honestly, my entire life.

People often ask me how I knew I wanted to create retreats, communities, or now, mother-daughter experiences.

The truth is…

I didn’t.

There wasn’t one defining moment.

There were hundreds of tiny ones.

Dance.

Books like Hunt, Gather, Parent and Dopamine Kids.

Watching families in Guatemala.

Learning about play.

Conversations with other entrepreneurs.

Listening to what made me feel more alive.

Eventually those breadcrumbs became a path.

I didn’t design it.

I discovered it.

Here’s something I don’t hear discussed very often.

Doing work that feels deeply aligned doesn’t only bring excitement.

It also brings grief.

Recently I created a playlist for my upcoming mother-daughter event.

Every time I listen to it, I cry.

Not because I’m worried about whether the event will sell.

Because something about it feels profoundly me.

I’ve come to believe that meaningful work shines a light on every place we’ve spent years disconnected from ourselves.

The joy is incredible.

The grief can be just as powerful.

And somehow…

Both are signs we’re moving in the right direction.

Whether it’s entrepreneurship, parenting, healing, or creativity…

Growth is uncomfortable.

That’s why I believe so deeply in community.

I’ve experienced firsthand how much easier it is to keep taking aligned action when someone can compassionately hold space for your fear instead of trying to eliminate it.

Sometimes we don’t need another strategy.

We need someone who can remind us that we’re still worthy while we’re learning.

Maybe the question isn’t:

“Will this work?”

Maybe the better question is:

“Who am I becoming by creating this?”

Because at the end of the day, I don’t want my life to be measured only by what I accomplished.

I want it to be measured by whether I had the courage to trust my creative instincts.

To build things that mattered.

To love the people around me well.

And to become someone who believes she’s worthy before the results arrive.

If this episode resonated with you, I’d love to hear from you.

You can:

Sometimes one honest conversation is the beginning of everything.

This podcast and blog are intended for educational and informational purposes only and are not a substitute for psychotherapy, medical care, or individualized mental health treatment. If you’re struggling with your mental health, please seek support from a qualified healthcare professional.

If you’re a therapist or helper who feels pulled toward more creative, meaningful, or aligned work…

I made something for you.

👉 Uncover Your Zone of Genius
This free guide will help you identify the strengths, interests, and patterns that often point toward your most meaningful work.

Grab it here:
https://pages.drshawnhondorp.com/zone

Episode 167: Beyond the Therapy Chair: Leadership, Travel, & Building an Aligned Life with Julia Neppini

There’s a quiet question many therapists carry:

Is this really the only way I’m allowed to do this work?

One client at a time.
One room.
One role.
One version of success.

In this conversation with Julia Nepini, we explore what happens when therapists begin listening to the deeper pull toward leadership, entrepreneurship, creativity, travel, teaching, speaking, and building lives that actually fit who they are becoming.

To me, this episode felt like a giant permission slip. I hope it does for you too.

Julia Nepini is a clinical and forensic social worker, entrepreneur, consultant, podcast host, and speaker.

She is the owner of a Massachusetts-based group practice with a team of approximately 30 people, founder of Compassionate Consulting Company, and host of The Compassionate Climb podcast.

Julia helps clinicians at all stages of business growth—from startup to scaling teams and streamlining operations—and has become known for helping therapists build sustainable, aligned businesses rooted in integrity and impact.

She’s also an international speaker who has presented in:

🌍 Bali
🌍 Costa Rica
🌍 Panama
🌍 Portugal

…and she shared so much wisdom in this conversation about what it actually looks like to build a life and business aligned with your values.

One of the biggest themes we explored was leadership.

Because most therapists are trained to:

…but we are often not trained to:

Julia spoke vulnerably about how her Enneagram type (Type 1 with a 2 wing) shaped her leadership journey:

✨ High standards
✨ Deep empathy
✨ Perfectionism
✨ Difficulty holding boundaries at times

One of the best parts of our conversation centered around belonging.

Julia talked about growing up feeling:

…and how entrepreneurship and aligned community helped her finally feel:

“Right where I need to be.”

Because sometimes entrepreneurship isn’t just about business.

Sometimes it’s about finally finding spaces where you no longer have to shrink yourself.

Julia also shared how international travel became part of her vision for success.

Not in a flashy way.

But in a deeply values-aligned way.

She described wanting to create a business that could:

✨ Operate without her constantly present
✨ Generate income sustainably
✨ Allow her to travel, teach, connect, and experience the world
✨ Give her daughter a different model for life and work

And I loved her honesty about the guilt that initially surfaced around this.

Because so many helpers struggle to receive:

Even when they help create those things for others.

This part of the episode was 🔥.

We talked openly about the messages many therapists receive:

And Julia shared something I strongly agree with:

We HAVE to start talking about money honestly.

Because when therapists avoid conversations about:

…it often leads to burnout.

Not freedom.

One quote that really stood out:

“You deserve compensation for your time.”

Simple.
But powerful.

✨ Therapists are allowed to want more
✨ Entrepreneurship can be deeply healing
✨ Boundaries support sustainability
✨ Multi-passionate people don’t need to fit one box
✨ Money conversations matter
✨ Alignment creates clarity
✨ Your “too muchness” may actually be your gift
✨ You can build a life that genuinely fits you

What parts of yourself have you been trying to minimize to fit into a professional mold?

And…

What might happen if those parts are actually part of your Zone of Genius?

🎙 Podcast: The Compassionate Climb
📱 Instagram & Facebook: Compassionate Consulting Company

🌟 Upcoming Event:
The Therapist’s Evolution Summit
📍 Seattle Convention Center
🗓 August 19–21, 2027

A conference for therapists exploring:

A space for therapists & creative entrepreneurs who crave a more courageous and connected life.

Join my newsletter here:
https://drshawnhondorp.com/contact/

This blog and podcast are for informational and educational purposes only. They do not constitute medical or mental health advice and are not a substitute for professional consultation or treatment.

https://pages.drshawnhondorp.com/zone

The problem isn’t that you don’t know what to do.

Most of us already know we need better boundaries.

We know we need more rest.

We know we need to stop people-pleasing.

We know we need to spend less time scrolling and more time doing the things that make us feel alive.

So why is it still so hard?

In this solo episode, I explore a realization that has been changing how I think about healing, leadership, creativity, business, parenting, and personal growth:

Most of us don’t need more information. We need the conditions that allow us to hear ourselves.

Drawing from my own experiences with therapy, coaching, money, entrepreneurship, parenting, and creativity, I share why I believe many of us have been conditioned to look outside ourselves for answers and what it takes to rebuild self-trust in a world full of noise.

We’ve been taught to believe that someone else has the answers.

A therapist.

A coach.

A certification.

A book.

A podcast.

A strategy.

And while all of those things can be helpful, the deepest transformation often happens when we stop looking for someone else to tell us what to do and start creating the conditions that allow us to hear and LEAD ourselves.

The issue isn’t a lack of information.

The issue is access.

Access to our own wisdom.

Access to our own desires.

Access to the parts of ourselves that have been waiting a very long time to be heard.

And access to our own leadership energy that we all have, even if it’s been covered up for a long time.

“Most of us don’t need more information. We need help holding the space long enough to hear our deep inner knowing.”

“I couldn’t analyze my way out of feeling unworthy.”

“The best strategy in the world won’t work if shame is in the driver’s seat.”

“What would I do if I deeply trusted myself?”

“The people who feel most alive aren’t the people who had certainty. They’re the people who learned how to trust themselves.”

This episode is for you if:

If this conversation resonates, I invite you to explore one of the spaces where we intentionally create the conditions for deeper self-trust, creativity, and aligned action.

A community for therapists, helpers, and creative entrepreneurs who want to create work and lives that feel nourishing instead of depleting.

A three-night immersive retreat plus two months of integration support designed to help you reconnect with your creativity, your desires, and the parts of you that feel most alive.

Questions? Reach out anytime [email protected]. xoxo, Shawn