The Innovative Therapist

Episode 126. Welcome to the first solo episode of an experiment I'm really excited about! I've done around 60 podcast interviews now (!!) and I LOVE it. So freaking much.

I want them to last forever and I have so much to say, but also I learn so much during and after the interviews.

So my new experiment, starting now is I will do a solo episode where I dive in to the topics that arose for me during the previous interview episode, where I can reflect on it, what I learned, and share more of my experiences related to the topic in a way that we didn't have time for (without a 2 hour episode)!.

For today's episode, I expand on my talk with Megan Gunnell. To here the initial interview, go here. I am setting these episodes up so that you don't have to listen to the interview episode first, but you may want to go back to it after you listen to this episode.

What to Expect In This Episode

Topics and questions covered:

Does psychotherapy training strip us our our creativity and self trust?

Should we as therapists pursue other ways of making money outside of 1 on 1 therapy?

How did I end up deciding to create a retreat for therapists? How am I feeling about it?

My journey and process with creating a retreat for the fall of October 2024

What did I/we learn from talking to Megan Gunnell about her process with creating so many amazing offerings outside of traditional 1 to 1 therapy

How has human design impacted me over the past few months?

What is a Zone of Genius and how can it help us work smarter, not harder?

And much more...

To listen to my interview with Megan Gunnell, go here.

To get on the waitlist for the next retreat, sign up here!

Are you a therapist or helping looking to get connected with The Innovative Therapist Community?

To sign up for online events for therapists, go here to sign up for our next virtual event. Even if you can't make the date, you will be the first to know about future free or paid community virtual events.

If you are local to Michigan sign up here for details about local events!

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.

Disclosure: Using the Bookshop.org links in this post means that I would get an affiliate fee if you purchase from the online bookshop (this supports my business, and local bookstores too!).

Episode 125. This week's podcast episode was so good.

I had been following ​Megan Gunnell's​ work for a while.

And then unexpectedly, she reached out to me. (!!)

This sort of feels like what it might feel like for a celeb to reach out and ask to hang out.

She asked if I might want to meet up and talk about the potential for collaboration.

Umm... yes please!

We talked about potential for collaboration sometime next year (yay), but first, we decided to record this podcast.

A wealth of experience with THRIVING

Megan really is a representation of how I want to feel about my business and frankly, she's doing a lot of things that look amazing, like hosting retreats in Costa Rica and Italy.

She's such a model of what creative thinking can do for you, and how it can help you develop more healing modalities as a therapist in and out of the therapy room.

I think this is a model any human can follow. And we cover the simple, but not easy steps to tapping into her intuition and having the courage to follow her path.

Without further ado, let's dive in!

What to Expect in this Episode

We cover the following:

How Megan came to doing the amazing work she does today, including a story about the time she hosted something that totally flopped

The role creativity has played in her career journey, the times she was disconnected from creativity and how this impacted her

How she incorporated playing the harp into her 1 on 1 therapy sessions and the impact it had for her clients

Guidance for how to determine what work "sets your soul on fire" and the difference between fear because you aren't ready, and fear because you really are

Her journey with 25 years of hosting retreats and some of the many lessons she's learned

The book that lead her to realize that holding a retreat is a calling for her

How to determine if holding retreats is right for you and how to explore this question in a low risk way (including several great questions to reflect on for yourself)

Her specific process the month before holding a large retreat or event

Upcoming offerings including her Costa Rica Summit and a Retreat Intensive Program, see her many offerings for therapists here

And so much more!

Who is Megan Gunnell?

Megan Gunnell, LMSW is Founder & Director of the Thriving Well Institute, psychotherapist, group practice owner, speaker, #1 bestselling author of “Thriving as a Therapist” and international retreat leader with over 25 years experience. She provides coaching, online courses, retreats and summits to therapists who want to learn how to build and scale their business. She’s the admin of the Thriving Therapists® FB group with over 20,000 members. Megan received the Meta Community Accelerator Award for 2022-2023 for having one of the highest engaged facebook communities in all of North America. She has presented and facilitated workshops and retreats globally and nationwide. A recovering perfectionist and recklessly brave, she's not afraid of most challenges. You can find out more at: www.thrivingwellinstitute.com

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.

Disclosure: Using the Bookshop.org links in this post means that I would get an affiliate fee if you purchase from the online bookshop (this supports my business, and local bookstores too!).

Episode 124. I get a lot of podcast pitches. Many of them, it's clear they've never listened to my podcast and have zero idea about my audience. Others are pitching people that have truly nothing to do with what a do (men's hair removal expert, anyone? Just why?).

Someone reached out to me to introduce Ann though and I was intrigued (I mean, read the bullets below, wouldn't you be?). I did my due diligence and listened to another podcast interview she did. And I immediately knew I had to have her on.

Her willingness to be open about her unique experiences growing up with her dad, his partner, and her mom all the in same house in the 80s is really fascinating. And her compassionate take on the evangelical conservative Christian approach to LGBTQ+ is really quite inspiring.

Without further ado, let's dive in!

What to Expect in this Episode

We cover the following:

How Ann came to doing the work she does today

What she learned from growing up in a queer household in the 80s

What she learned from attending a religious conversion conference as a queer female

How she is able to cultivate so much compassion for others who believe anything outside of heterosexuality is a sin

The most common issues LGBTQ+ members face and where she sees therapists miss the mark and cause harm

Ways she's engaged in healing that is outside of traditional talk therapy (I loved her answer on this!)

Her main takeaway she wants people to know when it comes to LGBTQ+ emotional well-being and mental health

And so much more!

Who is Ann Russo?

Ann Russo, is a business founder, psychotherapist, author, and mental health advocate with an MA in Theology from Loyola Marymount and an MSW from Long Beach State. In 2018, she founded AMR Therapy to provide culturally sensitive mental health services to queer communities and other underserved populations. Under her leadership, AMR Therapy has served over 1500 clients with a dedicated team of just 15 therapists and administrators.

Ann is a trained domestic violence and sexual assault advocate, specializing in trauma-informed care and first responder crisis management. She is currently developing specialized Continuing Education Units (CEUs) for therapists, focusing on critical topics such as ethical non-monogamy, sexual empowerment, religious trauma, and queerness. These CEUs are essential for professionals seeking to enhance their skills and better serve diverse populations. Ann also offers consulting services to mental health providers on these topics.

Her upcoming book, "Her Own Terms," delves into modern female sexuality using cognitive behavioral therapy, sex-positive perspectives, and psychodynamic insights. Raised in a queer, non-monogamous household, Ann’s personal and professional experiences enrich her approach, making her a relatable and insightful figure in the mental health field.

Ann is a prominent advocate for mental health and sexual positivity, frequently featured in articles, podcasts, and interviews. You can work with a therapist at AMR Therapy or connect with Ann directly by visiting the websites below.

You can connect with Ann by joining her email list here.

Website for Ann's group practice is: https://www.amrtherapy.com/

Ann's website: https://www.annrusso.org

To work with Ann or a member of her team, email her at [email protected] and mention "Body" in the email to let her know how you heard about her work.

For 20% off CEU coursework, sign up here.

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.

Disclosure: Using the Bookshop.org links in this post means that I would get an affiliate fee if you purchase from the online bookshop (this supports my business, and local bookstores too!).

Episode 123. Today's solo episode is all about my thoughts about Creativity. I've been thinking about this topic a LOT lately. And it's been incredibly fun.

I read this book recently and already am re-listening to it. It's Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert and I've found it really inspiring. I have really been slowing down to think about how I can add creativity into my personal and professional life and how others can do the same.

So this podcast episode is all about my thoughts on creativity, including how I've evolved to use creativity as a psychologist and also in my personal life. I can't wait to share it with you!

Words of Wisdom

Quote from Elizabeth Gilbert:

"You're not required to save the world with your creativity. Your art not only doesn't have to be original, in other words, it also doesn't have to be important. For example, whenever anyone tells me that they want to write a book in order to help other people I always think 'Oh, please don't."

Do it for Yourself?

That quote actually really makes me laugh out loud.

So much of what I've learned in the online marketing world is about knowing your audience and speaking to their pain points.

In my training as a psychologist, I was taught to always focus on the other person and their needs, helping them to conceptualize their struggles, and from there, give suggestions to help.

None of these suggestions are bad, and yet, none of them teach us how to listen to our own bodies as we are marketing or delivering therapy.

And the more I do both of those things, the more I think that's actually the most essential skill to learn...

"I'm not a creative person."

I've said this so many times. I still sometimes say it.

But now at least I'm catching myself.

We all have creativity in us. It maybe got shoved down, but it's there. And re-engaging with it can be deeply healing.

In IFS it is said that when we can notice and get space and separation from our Parts, the 8 C qualities of self emerge: Creativity, Curiosity, Connection, Courage, Calm, Clarity, Compassion, and Confidence.

There are also 5 P words that can emerge, including, Presence, Persistence, Perspective, Playfulness, Patience.

Play and creativity are essential for how kids learn and I for one am excited to continue to rediscover this as an adult.

Why We Should Care About Creativity

“A creative life is an amplified life. It’s a bigger life, a happier life, an expanded life, and a hell of a lot more interesting life. Living in this manner – continually and stubbornly bringing forth the jewels that are hidden within you – is a fine art, in and of itself.”

-Elizabeth Gilbert

I'll be perfectly honest, I want to convince you that creativity is important.

I went online and started searching in Google Scholar. There are definitely some articles to support this. Liz Gilbert's book has more ideas on this.

I come from a heavily science and math focused background. My dad was an engineer, and my mom taught math, and later computers, and then taught technology to other teachers.

I can't say that I grew up truly understanding the immense value of creative works. When I did art at school, perfectionism was majorly on the scene. If it wasn't perfect, I'd freak out (internally or externally, depending on my age).

Dancing as Creativity

My main exposure to the arts and creative expression was the fact that I danced from age 8 to 18, and the again for a few years in college on a college Pompon team.

I witnessed creativity, but I never felt creative. I struggled with choreography. I would just put together tricks I already knew, do a double turn into an axel jump, then jump forward and do a kick and a leap.

Ways I Engage in Creativity Today

Podcasting

Blogging

Thinking of new ways to engage clients and therapists in innovative ways to heal themselves (while, creatively, healing myself too - see what I did there?)

Tap dancing (started as an adult 3 years ago)

Dance parties with my kids

Neighborhood book club where I read books I wouldn't normally read and discuss them as a group

Ways to Engage Creativity In Psychotherapy (as a therapist or a client)

Learn a new modality (e.g., really into ACT? Try IFS! Or other somatic based approaches)

Find a few person who teaches the same modality differently. Example, I found CBT pretty bland and non-relatable in grad school, but when my parent coach teaches CBT type skills, it clicks and I see more of the value. Ask around to friends on who they learn about a certain topic from and explore this.

Dive into a new topic area. Always wanted to learn about neurodivergence and how to make therapy more effective for various types of brains? What about sexual health and therapy (listen to my convo with Sharon Depcinski on this topic here), how do your incorporate that? How about exploring a deeply important (though admittedly intense) topic like decolonizing of therapy learning and how that's impacted you (and how you might want to think differently now.

Incorporate art, music, or movement into the therapy room. I've been seeing more and more therapists do this. Obviously be aware of what training you need for this, but I definitely could see this be incredibly healing.

Note: If you are like me, you might have a Part of you that gets overwhelmed by all of this, especially if you have a part of you that wants to be the perfect and best therapist for everyone all the time. That part of you means well. And also, you bring tremendous healing and value already. So maybe we can appreciate that part for what it's trying to do for you, and just know that you can choose 1 small area and that's great. Or skip this whole section and just explore creativity outside of the therapy room!

Ways to Engage Creativity Outside of the Therapy Room

Learn a new skill (especially one that has no secondary gain or value). I struggle with this! I have many creative hobbies I've explored where there's a secondary gain (I can show off my tap dancing skills, I can speak Spanish while traveling, I can sell these painted sports logos on Etsy! lol). And that's fine, but what about things you can do just for yourself. I read the book 4000 Weeks and the author talked to someone who had a hobby of creating a world with model trains. He couldn't be "good" at it, he just did it for the love of it. For those of us who notice we are doing everything for secondary gain and/or accolades, this is something to consider for sure.

Find a community where they are doing creative things and join in on what sounds fun. I love Meetup.com and have been using it for many years.

Take a dance class.

Take an art class (in person or online)

Do a music challenge with a friend! (here is one example of some prompts, but they are everywhere on the internet, just search Music Challenge). My good friend Darius Randall and I are currently doing this for a second round as I record this, and I can't tell you how much more creative at work I've felt because I don't necessarily pause and listen to music on a regular basis otherwise. As a side note, Darius went into private practice recently and is an excellent therapist, would be a good fit for professionals, especially healthcare workers. If you are in the state of Michigan, check out his website at FreshSands.com here. This is actually part of the reason I've re-focused on offerings I want to create that harness the power of nature, movement, and/or music. I am most likely going to create some experiences locally in Michigan (Pickerel Lake half day retreat anyone?) and then also online in a way that helps us connect with our bodies, slow down, and engage in creativity and healing.

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.

Disclosure: Using the Bookshop.org links in this post means that I would get an affiliate fee if you purchase from the online bookshop (this supports my business, and local bookstores too!).

Episode 122. In deciding which episodes were worth replaying for you this summer, this one immediately came to mind for a few reasons.

First of all, I've referenced this conversation many times since I had it in July 2021 (3 years ago!!). I've talked about it on the podcast, and I've referenced it in my head.

To share how it's impacted me, we have to review one of my favorite Maya Angelou quotes:

“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

- Dr. Maya Angelou

I'll be honest, it's been 3 years and my memory is not great. So I don't remember exactly all the things Adia and I talked about (although I reviewed some of the topics in the lists below).

But I remember exactly how I felt when she was modeling how you might talk to yourself when you were feeling shame.

It felt like a gut punch. A big puzzle piece clue. Saying, "Hey Shawn, if you were wondering where else you need to look to take your next step in healing, it's here!" Overall message: "You still have some shame to unpack and work out!"

What To Expect in This Interview:

Dr. Gooden opens up about how struggles with self-worth manifested in her life growing up. 

How she learned the hard way that external validation of worth – be it a doctoral degree or losing 50 lbs – are common motivators, but don't work long-term.

Her thoughts on the field of psychology and our training to not self-disclose, and how she's shifted this and why

Common barriers to unconditional self-worth

Incredibly valuable language for shifting towards true self-compassion

And so much more!

Top Things to Remember While Cultivating Unconditional Self-Worth

You are under-utilizing the skill of self-compassion. I can almost 100% guarantee it. Instead of beating yourself up, or just taking a practical approach (“you messed up, don’t dwell on it, move on.”) you can name and make space for your pain, while still holding yourself accountable. You can talk to yourself as you would a small child who is in pain. “I see you, you’re okay. I got you.” This shift alone, when mastered, can change everything.

Many of the ways we think about mental and emotional well-being are incredibly outdated. And often harmful when they further stigmatize struggle and have groups of us pretending that we don’t struggle, while our clients do. In the field of psychology, the precedent is not to share, to be a blank slate, to be objective and a suggestion or advice dispensary. And yet, when we question that, not only can we help people more effectively, we as professionals can also be more free to bring our full selves to work. This relates to our discussion in Episode 27 about 4 Reasons you should share your story (and why I shared mine). The reality is, we aren’t going to fall into categories or checkboxes. This person has depression and self-worth issues, this one does not. This one has developed self-compassion, this one hasn’t. It’s a journey that we are all on and we ALL have shame and self-doubt. We can all work on and benefit from the skills mentioned here.

The more you work on your relationship with yourself, the more you will be able to do vulnerable things, and pick yourself up when you inevitably fall. It does not need to be, “develop self-worth first, then do uncomfortable things,” OR “fake it until you make it, just do the hard thing no matter how you feel.” Your life is yours and yours alone. Don’t avoid things you value or get stuck in perfectionism, but don’t feel like you HAVE TO do something just because someone says so. You get to choose.

External boundaries can help behaviors with delayed gratification to become more intrinsically motivating, under the right conditions. Dr. Gooden talks about her initial resistance to meditation, and how being forced to teach it and practice it allowed her to gradually see the benefits. This relates to how we can sometimes guide ourselves to an exercise routine or an eating pattern we might feel really good doing eventually, but in the short term might be super uncomfortable (e.g., if you are learning a new cooking or meal prep skill, or if you are working new parts of your brain or muscles). Setting up external boundaries sometimes can help create space to explore if the behavior truly fits in our life (e.g., do I feel good on a plant-based eating plan? What about partially plant-based?), particularly when we explore it without all the shame, blame, and guilt. Just truly an experiment.

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider patient relationship.

Disclosure: Using the Bookshop.org links in this post means that I would get an affiliate fee if you purchase from the online bookshop (this supports my business, and local bookstores too!).

Episode 121. One of the questions I get most often from people when they learn that I'm aligned with the Health at Every Size® movement is some version of this:

"But I've worked for many years in XX setting and I've seen how people suffer when they have excess weight on their bodies. How can we really say that people can be healthy at every size?"

Today's encore episode is a replay of my conversation with Dr. Jillian Murphy that answers this question incredibly well. I can't wait to share it with you!

What To Expect in This Interview:

We cover the following topics:

Why Health at Every Size® is not just a social movement, but an evidence-based movement rooted heavily in science. She breaks this down in a way that I truly haven’t heard before, so make sure you stay tuned to really understand why and how this isn’t just a “don’t judge people for their body size” movement (though that’s of course very important, too!)

We talk about her training as a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine and where her focus is, as well as the ways that her training, just like pretty much all standard training programs, were steeped in diet culture beliefs.

Her experience with orthorexia and how she finally fully cut the diet culture cord.

We talk about her work learning about competent eating through the Ellyn Satter Institute and the power of this approach for kids and adults. I’m SO excited for this part of this conversation, because we talk about a nuanced approach to moving towards a flexible, healthy, sustainable relationship with food called Competent Eating that can be really helpful for people who want more structure than Intuitive Eating provides. Super cool.

What You Need to Know About Weight Inclusivity, Health at Every Size®, and How You can Immediately Start Improving Your Health

The weight-inclusive Health at Every Size® movement is social. All bodies deserve dignity and respect and we don’t current provide that. This is well documented and incredibly harmful.

The weight-inclusive Health at Every Size® movement is scientific. Not that social and science are separate per se, but there is immense amounts of evidence that the link between weight and health cannot be fully causal, for many of the reasons that Dr. Murphy outlines so well. She talks about the fact that thinner people have all the conditions we blame on weight (heart disease, diabetes, cancer, PCOS) so for that reason alone we know it can’t only be weight that is the problem. We cannot establish a causal relationship with weight causing the health problems it’s blamed on (e.g., heart disease, diabetes, PCOS, cancer, etc). This doesn’t mean there aren’t co-relations, but we know it isn’t as simple as “fat causes X” as so often is the assumption. There could also be underlying genetic causal relationships that are causing the weight gain and the disease process.

We don’t currently have consistently effective ways to lose weight long-term without sacrificing well-being. We don’t cover bariatric surgery at all in this interview, although frankly I’d love to hear Dr. Murphy’s thoughts on that, but when talking about long-term significant weight loss (more than just a handful of pounds, although this depends on current body size), without surgery or medications, the odds of that happens without collateral damage is quite low. So, even if we could establish a causal relationship (e.g., excess weight causes disease), we don’t currently have effective ways to help people lose weight and keep it off, without a sacrifice to well-being, physically and emotionally.

There is a much wider arrange of body diversity than the medical community currently allows for. Body diversity is a fact. This results in significant problems including lower quality of care, weight stigma, bad advice, and leaves most people increasingly losing faith in themselves, versus recognizing that the system fails to improve health in the vast majority of folks with these struggles.

You deserve to have full autonomy over your body. One of the reasons the anti-diet movement can feel so loud, is the attempt to try to counteract the loudness of the diet culture and weight centric BS. But it’s normal and understandable to still desire weight loss and smaller bodies because there are social privileges that you will get, including more acceptance, belonging, and even better health care with less judgment and bias. But once you know the data, you can be empowered to make the choice that’s best for you.

Competent Eating is another way to re-learn to trust yourself and build a flexible healthy relationship with food and your body. By providing some structure, we can actually achieve more freedom. Have you noticed this in other areas of your life? The trick is, depending on how entrenched your body image and eating struggles are, you must be truly honest with yourself about this throughout the process. I was thinking after this interview that this really is an example of how we often work with binge eating disorder in cognitive behavioral therapy too, typically focusing on providing structure, but the fact that Intuitive Eating works for some, and a model of competent eating works for others, means that we need to attend to each individual person and how the approach feels for them. Tying back to motivation theory, if it’s increasing autonomy it will likely lead to feelings of improving flexible control and positive self-care and health outcomes. If it feels controlling, like diet mentality or like rigid rules, it’s unlikely to work. We can take a set yourself up for success mindset. I specifically talk about this in my free 3 day Hunger and Satisfaction Journal, “if eating without structure freaks you out,” and give some suggestions for what to do about this. You can grab that here.

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider patient relationship.

Disclosure: Using the Bookshop.org links in this post means that I would get an affiliate fee if you purchase from the online bookshop (this supports my business, and local bookstores too!).

Episode 120. I’ve said it before and I will say it again, I am often profoundly changed by the impact of the conversations I have on this podcast. I still remember quotes and concepts from people I interviewed a year ago, and I still sometimes re-listen to the conversations to remind myself of the lessons I learned from them.

This conversation with Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD, from May 2022 was extra special though. And I’m actually having a hard time putting into words why exactly that is. I think part of it is Dalia’s presence, and the generosity and vulnerability that is shared, including the process from behind the scenes of this week’s. Beyond that, however, Dalia’s compassion for others, myself included, who have very much missed the mark with wellness, health, and lack of diversity in related fields, made this conversation all the more meaningful.

Inviting Dalia on the podcast was important to me because I truly believe that moving towards true wellness and health means we must un-learn a lot of what we have been taught. Not only about what is healthy from a weight-centric model, but so much of what we have been taught about race, sexuality, and generally how so many of our systems, educational models, and structures are set up to serve white people, not persons of marginalized backgrounds.

I’ll admit: I have total imposter syndrome when I talk about or write about topics related to diversity. I’m afraid I’ll mess things up, like say the wrong things or offending someone (my deepest fear). But I know deep down it’s a privilege to be able to choose to learn about and talk about these topics or not, and I am working on continuing to choose the (typically mild) discomfort, so I can continue to learn and grow.

I hope you will listen in on this conversation and hear the incredible gift that Dalia has given to the world by sharing this book with the world. I truly believe what I said, that I think this book truly benefits anyone who wants to learn about wellness and inclusion as an individual or as a healthcare provider.

I hope wherever you are in your journey of learning about diversity and where we in the US and other countries have greatly missed the mark, that you will remain open, curious, and humble and continue to be open to learning more. And remember that (as I often have to remind myself) you don’t need to know it all, you just need to ask question and listen. There’s so much value to be gained from learning about the amazingly diverse experiences of humans and I’m incredibly grateful that Dalia shared with us via Decolonizing Wellness, but also that I was able to have this incredible conversation as well.

What To Expect in This Interview:

We cover the following topics:

How Dalia came to doing this work, and the courage it took for Dalia to write Decolonizing Wellness, and the incredibly vulnerable process of doing so

Some examples of the many ways that health and wellness spaces miss the mark when it comes to persons of diverse and/or marginalized identities

What Dalia means by “When you queer anything it becomes more inclusive” (and why I’ve never been more convinced of this after talking to Dalia and reading Decolonizing Wellness)

What Dalia wishes more people understood about these topics

And much more!

Who is Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD?

Dalia Kinsey is a queer Black Registered Dietitian, keynote speaker, the creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC community, Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. Dalia works at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice, continually creating wellness tools and resources that center the most vulnerable — individuals that hold multiple marginalized identities. Dalia’s work can be found at https://www.daliakinsey.com/ or on YouTube, Substack, LinkedIn, or Facebook.

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider patient relationship.

Disclosure: Using the Bookshop.org links in this post means that I would get an affiliate fee if you purchase from the online bookshop (this supports my business, and local bookstores too!).

Episode 119. In today's solo episode, I'm going to share some of what I've learned about IFS and how it works based on both my personal and professional experiences thus far.

I'm also going to talk about learning to slow down, how it's a journey I'm still on, and how IFS helps me actually do it, specifically focusing on my example of my Overworking Part, which I learned as I talked through this episode is very linked with my "Optimizing my Experience" Part (also described in my episode with Randi Rubenstein).

In this episode I share my process of recognizing my Overworking/Optimizing Parts, appreciating them, and helping to do things (like record this episode for you!) from a more embodied and grounded place.

In the middle of the episode, I lead you through an IFS based meditation to get to know a Protector Part of yours, Overworking Part or otherwise. Then I cover 3 of the main lessons I've learned from experiencing IFS.

Without further ado, let's dive in!

But First, Words of Wisdom

“Compassion as a spontaneous aspect of Self blew my mind, because I’d always assumed and learned that compassion was something you had to develop. There’s this idea—especially in some spiritual circles—that you have to build up the muscle of compassion over time, because it’s not inherent. Again, that’s the negative view on human nature at play. To be clear, what I mean by compassion is the ability to be in Self with somebody when they’re really hurting and feel for them, but not be overwhelmed by their pain. You can only do that if you’ve done it within yourself. That is, if you can be with your own exiles without blending and being overwhelmed by them and instead show them compassion and help them, then you can do the same for someone in pain who’s sitting across from you.”― Richard C. Schwartz, No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model

The Top 3 Lessons I Have Learned Through Experiencing IFS

Cognitive Self-Compassion is Very Different Than Heart Self Compassion. It's totally different. And I was definitely always practicing the cognitive type. This really came to light for me when I talked with Dr. Allyn Richards in episode 108 (you can listen here). We both experienced compassion for ourselves by practicing IFS in a way that was totally different than anything we've tried to do in the past.

You Have to Life it to Give It. Hearing this always felt annoying to me. But also so true. I always heard that you shouldn't teach meditation if you don't have a meditation practice. Well, I occasionally taught it, but I definitely didn't have a practice.

Talking About Parts is Very Different than Talking to and Building a Relationship with Parts. One of my trainers in my Level 1 mentioned that she often sees therapists saying they are doing IFS, when really they are talking about parts with clients, which can be helpful. Many of us, therapists especially, have developing amazing conceptualization and analyzing parts that helped us a TON. And also, they are still parts. When you truly build a relationship with and honor these parts, new levels of healing and embodiment open up, likely that you didn't believe were truly possible.

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself! We may be starting another IFS based community group soon.

“I know I shouldn’t focus on weight loss, but…” (Polarized Parts Alert!)

Are you feeling unsure how to guide a client who wants to improve their relationship with food, but also wants to lose weight?

We offer this super cool transformational exercise that can help your clients work to understand their polarized parts, build self-trust and listen to their intuition!

This free PDF gives step-by-step instructions for doing one of my all-time favorite exercises (based on Internal Family Systems theory) to explore polarized parts. It will help clients get to know the parts of themselves without judgment, understand their intention, and create empowerment and harmony in their bodies.

This is hands-down one of the best ways I’ve found to help support client autonomy and build self-trust at the same time. I can’t wait to share it with you!

Sign up today to use this innovative tool!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.

Episode 118. Today's episode is a special conversation with Dr. Amy Neeren who has shown amazing resilience in terms of finding a career in psychology that felt right for her, and a big piece of that has been pursuing a career outside of her full-time work as a psychologist in writing fiction.

She has published two children's books in the traditional publishing world (NO SMALL FEAT, as we learn in this conversation) and is working on a novel now. All of these writings have a tie to mental health, and to her story to some degree.

We talk about how writing can be so healing, and so hard, why she does it, why she chose traditional publishing route, and what keeps her going.

I really enjoyed this conversation and I'm sure you will too.

What to Expect in this Episode

We cover the following:

Amy's journey to getting a PhD in Clinical Psychology and how stuck she felt after getting her degree and not finding private practice to be right for her

How Amy got into writing (including whether she always wanted to be a writer or not)

Why she chose traditional publishing over self-publishing

How long it took Amy to publish her first and second books (these answers shocked me)

The new project she's working on now

How she feels about and deals with rejection (and how often she gets to practice this!)

A discussion on how to incorporate creativity in our lives as therapists

Why she wrote her children's book series Nellie in Knots (Book 1 in the series here, Book 2 here) (and how much my daughter and I LOVE this series!)

What the two types of writers are (Plotters and Pantsers) and which one Amy is

And so much more!

Join the Innovative Therapist Book Club Today!

Want to learn about the Top 4 books I wish I had read many years ago that have shifted my view of healing and human relationships?

Download the free guide today to find out – I bet some of them will surprise you! You can grab it at DrHondorp.com/Books

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.

Episode 117. In today's solo episode, I'm going to share some of my healing journey and a bit of an update about where I'm a today. This will include reflecting back on what really helped me heal from binge eating disorder and the chronic dieting cycle, as well as what continues to help me build trust with myself today as I work to build a life that's aligned, joyful, and helps me avoid feelings of regret (as much as possible, since regret is a valuable teacher!).

I'll cover how Internal Family Systems has factored into this for me over the past 2 years, and how this model really helps me understand healing on a whole other level, even before I learned it.

I've gotten a few questions lately basically asking me, "Given our culture, what's truly possible when it comes to trusting myself with eating decisions?"

I also have been reflecting on how overall I feel more self trust than I ever have in various decisions, so I'd like to walk through some of the steps that helped me get there, with examples of how I shifted my relationship to food in the past and how I'm now learning to apply it to my podcast and other aspects of my business.

Without further ado, let's dive in!

But First, Words of Wisdom

“I’ve learned that whenever I decide something with an open heart, I usually make the right decision.”

- Maya Angelou

3 Truths That Shifted Everything When It Comes to Binge Eating & Self Trust

Truly Understanding What Restriction is and How to Stop It. I've been reflecting lately on what helped me heal from binge eating disorder. For the part of me that restricted (and for those who don't know my story it wasn't extreme restriction in any way, basically I was just following advice I'd get from plans like WW), it really took around 13 years of trying before that part finally realized it's well-intentioned efforts were not working at all. Things to note: I had a lot of factors that made this healing journey easier for me, and still do to this day, most notably size privilege among many others.

Continuing Until You Get to the Root Cause. I actually didn't really do this, well not until many years later when becoming a mom pushed me to do more healing. It's so common to exchange one protective part for another. No longer restricting or binge eating, but maybe occasionally using food to cope (without guilt, but still avoiding the underlying feeling), or overworking, or finding ways to avoid triggers (e.g., sometimes people will develop parts of them that really just compartmentalize, and bring all of their emotions and shame to therapy, which is great, but they are still disconnecting from the pain outside of the one hour a week which doesn't feel great to them).

Knowing that Deeper Healing and Releasing Beliefs is Actually Possible (Even Though the World Ain't Changing Anytime Soon). This is the part that IFS really helped with for me. I think for so many of us, we just deeply believe that we will always have parts of us that hold shame and beliefs like "I'm not enough" that get triggered by various things, anything from glancing in a mirror to making a mistake in a meeting. It's important to note here, that there are many different ways to heal parts of ourselves outside of therapy too. Sometimes being in certain social groups, participating in certain group or solo activities, or other environments can heal parts of us in ways we don't even know we needed or maybe even understand at the time. For example, maybe finding a great therapist is your next step in pursing healing, but maybe it's finding an amazing local community of artists and taking up painting, or maybe finding a group that likes bird watching, or maybe it's taking an online class about writing a fiction book. I have no idea what it is, but there are many paths to healing. Listen to yourself about what you truly yearn for, and see if you can trust yourself to make the investment in yourself that feels right for you.

Wanting more support beyond these podcasts?

I am currently accepting new therapy clients if you live in one of these 40 states in the US

My rate for an intake session is $220 and for a 45 minute follow up is $195

If interested in learning more, including my availability and details about my practice, email me at [email protected] or call 616-227-0001

Or if you are a therapist of helping professional looking to connect in community and learn more about or experience the IFS model, get on my email list here and/or email me at [email protected] to introduce yourself!

“I know I shouldn’t focus on weight loss, but…” (Polarized Parts Alert!)

Are you feeling unsure how to guide a client who wants to improve their relationship with food, but also wants to lose weight?

We offer this super cool transformational exercise that can help your clients work to understand their polarized parts, build self-trust and listen to their intuition!

This free PDF gives step-by-step instructions for doing one of my all-time favorite exercises (based on Internal Family Systems theory) to explore polarized parts. It will help clients get to know the parts of themselves without judgment, understand their intention, and create empowerment and harmony in their bodies.

This is hands-down one of the best ways I’ve found to help support client autonomy and build self-trust at the same time. I can’t wait to share it with you!

Sign up today to use this innovative tool!

Disclaimer: This blog and podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual professional advice or treatment, including medical or mental health advice. It does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.