The Lost Art Of the Skilled Trades

Data center electricians are making big money. Andrew Brown asks who's training the next generation of electricians while the same experienced people get recruited from job to job.

Mike Rowe shared a story about visiting a data center in Texas, where he met three electricians, all under 30. According to Mike, all three were making more than $240,000 a year, and all three had been recruited away from other projects three times in the previous 18 months. Andrew posted about it on LinkedIn, the post passed 100,000 impressions, and the comments from people who work in the field turned into this episode.

This is a solo episode from Andrew Brown, host of The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades. He works through the strongest comments on both sides, including the ones that disagreed with him.

You'll hear what might sit behind a $240K paycheck, why an electrical project supervisor said experienced workers should be rewarded for teaching, the case for moving workers between projects, an apprentice's account of being used as cheap labor, and whether data center work builds skills that carry into the rest of a career. Andrew ends with a question for contractors and apprentices, and he wants to hear your answer.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – The $240,000 Electrician: Mike Rowe's story about three young electricians at a Texas data center who'd each been recruited away three times in 18 months.

(02:00) – What's Behind the $240K: Commenters asked about hours, travel and per diem, and why that changes the conversation for someone just entering an apprenticeship.

(03:26) – Rewarding the People Who Teach: An electrical project supervisor's point that experienced workers need to be rewarded for teaching, not just for getting the job done quickly.

(05:17) – Moving Workers vs. Training Apprentices: Why good companies move people between jobs, and one young apprentice's experience of being used as cheap labor.

(08:21) – The Data Center Question: Whether years on data center projects prepare an electrician for industrial maintenance, commercial work, service work or running a business.

(09:40) – Who's Ready to Take Their Place?: Employers who invest in developing people, and who's ready when today's experienced workers retire.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

1. Big pay stories need context. Hours, travel and per diem change what $240,000 means, and that pay isn't necessarily what someone coming out of high school into an apprenticeship will see.

2. Teaching takes time on the job. If the only thing being measured is how quickly the work gets done, apprentices don't get the chance to learn.

3. Keeping experienced people working and preparing new people to become experienced are two different jobs, and the industry needs both.

4. Recruiting isn't the finish line. Once new people arrive, somebody has to teach them and show them what the next step in their career looks like.

ABOUT THE HOST

Andrew Brown hosts The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades, where he talks with people in shipbuilding, aviation, manufacturing, construction and other trades about how careers get built and how employers develop their people.

Through keynotes and working sessions, Andrew works with companies that are bringing people into the trades and want to keep them.

KEYWORDS

electrician salary, data center electrician, $240,000 electrician, electrician apprenticeship, apprentice electrician, mentoring apprentices, training the next generation, skilled trades careers, skilled labor shortage, retiring workforce, construction workforce, workforce development, journeyman electrician, trades mentorship, Mike Rowe, The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades, Andrew Brown

RESOURCE LINKS

Andrew Brown keynotes and working sessions: https://andrewbrownspeaker.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-brown-b1736a5

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

Concetta Defa, executive director of the Utah Building Trades Council, on why data center training has to build real electricians, not one-job installers.

Tech companies are pouring money into training workers to build data centers, and electricians on those jobs can make over $200,000 a year with overtime. Concetta has seen this before. When she was an apprentice, crews were putting up cell towers, and people who only ever learned cell towers struggled to pass journeyman exams and many left the trade once that build-out ended. Her question for every workforce program today: when the data center boom is over, what happens to the people you trained to do one thing?

Concetta started as an IBEW Local 354 apprentice in 1996, after her father died and she needed to help support her family. She worked as a journey-level electrician, foreperson, estimator, project manager and assistant business manager before leading the Utah Building Trades Council. In this conversation she covers how to get into the IBEW when there's a waitlist, how apprentice pay climbs to journeyman scale, what job site conditions are really like, and why the money war over experienced workers is hurting the contractors building everything else.

This episode is for anyone thinking about an electrical apprenticeship, career changers trying to get into a union, and the apprenticeship programs, contractors and workforce leaders deciding how the next generation gets trained.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – We Don't Need Data Center Electricians: Concetta's warning about training people for one build instead of a whole trade.

(01:15) – Building Careers or Filling Demand?: Where the money in skilled trades training is going, and why both good and narrow training are happening at once.

(05:26) – A Career Changer at 36: Andrew's family member trying to get into the union, and what happens to narrowly trained workers when the boom ends.

(08:02) – The Cell Tower Boom: Why people who only learned one kind of work struggled to journey out and left the trade.

(11:48) – Job Site Conditions Change Everything: Materials, methods, safety and procedures shift between data centers, industrial, commercial and energy work.

(13:20) – Into the Trade by Accident: From a grocery store job to an IBEW apprenticeship, four contractors and the mentors who shaped her.

(20:14) – How to Get Into the IBEW: Waitlists, ranking lists, construction wireman roles and why you should understand the value of what you're joining.

(24:45) – Becoming a Stronger Applicant: Track your hours, get on a union contractor's crew, and what to do if you're bad at interviews.

(30:28) – Apprenticeship Length and Pay: Three to five years, starting around 50 to 60 percent of journeyman scale, with raises as you progress.

(33:33) – What Job Site Conditions Are Really Like: Mud, snow, break tents, porta-johns, and going from two years outdoors to a room with four walls.

(41:26) – Solving the Shortage or Moving Workers Around?: How data center money pulls experienced workers away from housing, retail and infrastructure.

(45:45) – How Contractors Can Keep Their People: Feeling valued, local work, work-life balance, and fitting the people to the work.

(51:51) – What Apprenticeship Leaders Should Start Doing: Put an experienced journeyman beside every apprentice in the field.

(54:14) – Hire PowHER and Utah Building Trades: Where to find Concetta's work with women in energy careers and the Utah building trades.

Key Takeaways

Training someone to build one kind of facility isn't the same as training an electrician. When that build-out ends, people without broad skills struggle to pass journeyman exams and move to other kinds of work.

If you can't get into the IBEW right away, keep working in the industry, track your hours, and try to get on with a union contractor. A year of real job site experience tells an apprenticeship committee more than an interview can.

Apprentices typically start at 50 to 60 percent of journeyman pay and get regular step raises over three to five years. Union retirement and benefits only pay off if you stay long enough to build them.

The fix isn't more money. Apprentices need an experienced journeyman beside them in the field, because the tips and tricks of the trade aren't in any book. As Andrew puts it, apprenticeship teaches a trade, mentorship builds the tradesperson.

About the Guest

Concetta Defa is executive director of the Utah Building and Construction Trades Council. She began as an apprentice electrician with IBEW Local 354 in 1996 and has worked as a journey-level electrician, foreperson, estimator, project manager and union steward. She also served as assistant business manager for IBEW Local 354, a trustee for the Utah Electrical Training Alliance, and president of Utah Women in Trades.

Concetta hosts a podcast with the Center for Energy Workforce Development's Hire PowHER initiative, which helps women find careers in energy and the skilled trades. She's passionate about mentoring apprentices and making sure the next generation is trained for a whole career, not just the current boom.

Keywords

electrician apprenticeship, data center electrician, IBEW apprenticeship, how to become an electrician, skilled trades careers, union electrician, journeyman electrician pay, construction workforce, trades mentorship, workforce retention, women in the trades, Concetta Defa, Utah Building Trades Council

RESOURCE LINKS

Concetta Defa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/concetta-defa

Utah Building and Construction Trades Council Website: https://www.utahbuildingtrades.org

Hire PowHER (Center for Energy Workforce Development): https://getintoenergy.org/hire-powher/powher-hours/

Get Into Energy: https://getintoenergy.org

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

Julian Scadden, CEO of Nexstar Network, on why the trades need a clear path from technician to business owner, not just a pitch about six figures.

Everyone says the trades pay well, carry no student debt and don't need a degree. Julian wants to know why kids still aren't lining up. His answer starts with his own story: early in his plumbing apprenticeship, a service manager pulled him aside and said everyone loved how clean he kept the truck and how well he did the paperwork, but he wasn't a good plumber. Julian never planned to be one anyway. He's a high school dropout who learned business through what he calls business apprenticeship, and he asks every employer listening a hard question: if a technician told you they wanted to start their own company, would you help them or fire them?

Julian is president and CEO of Nexstar Network, a member-owned organization that coaches independent plumbing, HVAC and electrical companies, and he was a Nexstar member himself before he led it. Recorded at Nexstar's conference, this conversation covers his Substack post on what comes after "become a plumber," what makes a good mentor, his open letter to the CEO of Lowe's, and why he doesn't think private equity will consolidate the trades.

This episode is for trades business owners who employ technicians, technicians wondering what comes next, and anyone funding or building workforce programs who wants careers to last past the first 90 days.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – Become a Plumber, and Then What? The Missing Path to Ownership: Julian explains why six figures and no debt aren't pulling kids in, and why the story of ownership gets left out.

(02:40) – From Technician to Owner: The Skills It Takes and Who Is Teaching Them: The service manager who told Julian he wasn't a good plumber, a contractor who built a $4 million business and lost it, and why employers have to start developing owners.

(06:00) – What Makes a Good Mentor: Mentor versus sponsor, balanced accountability, and how his first mentor Ed Coleman let him make a costly mistake without letting it sink the company.

(12:00) – The Letter to Lowe's: Data Center Dollars or Real Trades Careers? Julian and Andrew ask whether the money going into workforce programs is building careers or just filling seats, and why honest expectations about the work matter.

(17:50) – Private Equity and the Trades: Will Consolidation Win? Why Julian reads the trend lines differently than most, why airlines can consolidate and trades can't, and what happens when buyers don't know how to operate the business.

(23:00) – Who Should Join Nexstar Network and Where to Find Julian: Who is a good fit, why Nexstar is more of an accelerator than an incubator, and how to reach him.

Key Takeaways

Pay alone doesn't recruit people into the trades. If the pitch stops at six figures and no debt, it leaves out the career path, including the path to owning a business, that makes someone stay.

A mentor walks you through your own development, while a sponsor is in rooms you aren't and says your name. The best mentors hold balanced accountability and can tell the difference between you building muscle and you sinking.

Be honest about the job. Showing up at 6 a.m. when it's 20 degrees, or crawling into an attic with asbestos, is the reality, and ride-and-decide days let a new hire find out before they commit. Andrew ties this back to the first 90 days, which is where most new hires are won or lost.

Private equity can't take over an industry where anyone with technical skill and a license can start a competing business tomorrow. Julian expects it to stay a challenge but not to consolidate the trades.

About the Guest

Julian Scadden is president and CEO of Nexstar Network, a member-owned organization for independent plumbing, HVAC and electrical contractors. He was named CEO on November 1, 2020, after joining Nexstar as its first implementation coach, then leading training and events and serving as vice president of operations. He started in the trades as a plumbing apprentice and has more than two decades in home services.

Julian writes on Substack about the future of the trades, including an open letter to the CEO of Lowe's about workforce funding and the path to ownership. Nexstar's mission is to help the world's best tradespeople become the world's best business people, and it only works with independently owned companies, not investment-backed ones.

Keywords

skilled trades, path to business ownership, trades business owner, plumbing careers, become a plumber, technician to owner, mentorship in the trades, mentor vs sponsor, balanced accountability, private equity in the trades, data center workforce, Lowe's Foundation, trades careers for Gen Z, first 90 days, retention, HVAC business, electrician business, home services, Julian Scadden, Nexstar Network

RESOURCE LINKS

Julian Scadden on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julianscadden

Nexstar Network Website: https://www.nexstarnetwork.com

An Open Letter to the CEO of Lowe's (Julian's Substack): https://julianscadden.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-the-ceo-of-lowes

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

Jon Ward, CEO of Ward Vessel and Exchanger, on why welders quit in the first 90 days, how a "people first" culture actually gets built, and why your best welder is rarely your best mentor.

Jon asks a question most shop owners avoid: if a million young people raised their hands tomorrow and said they wanted to work in the skilled trades, would employers actually be ready for them? His answer is blunt. A lot of companies say they'd hire 20 or 40 people tomorrow if they could find them, but most have no system to actually bring that many people on without losing them in the first three months. Ward Vessel and Exchanger builds pressure vessels and heat exchangers that end up in everything from Gorilla Glue to GLP-1 drug manufacturing, and Jon's spent years rebuilding how his company onboards, mentors, and retains welders in two very different labor markets, Charlotte and Houston.

Jon Ward has run Ward Vessel and Exchanger, a family manufacturing business founded in 1982, since taking over leadership of the company. He's built a formal apprenticeship program with NC Works, runs the business on EOS (the Entrepreneurial Operating System), and was named to the UNC Charlotte Board of Trustees in 2026. He also hosts his own podcast, Forged in Focus.

This episode is for anyone building or fixing an onboarding process, any shop owner losing skilled people to bigger paychecks at data center jobs, and anyone who's ever wondered whether their most talented person should actually be the one training the new hires. Jon walks through his three core values, what a real apprenticeship partnership with a workforce agency looks like, and the mastery chart his team is rolling out to make skill progression visible to every welder on the floor.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – Why the First 90 Days Make or Break a New Hire: Jon explains why the old "pair them with a lead guy and let them figure it out" model fails, and what changes when leadership actually gets involved early.

(03:00) – The Three Core Values Behind a People-First Culture: Passionate, consistent, and selfless, Jon breaks down how Ward hires to these values, fires to them, and built a "people first" ethos around a line he heard on a stage years ago: culture over customers.

(05:00) – Building an Apprenticeship Program With NC Works: How a one-year, state-funded apprenticeship partnership in Mecklenburg County works in practice, and what Jon learned running it with his first apprentice.

(10:00) – What Ward Vessel and Exchanger Actually Builds (and Why Welders Matter): From hair care products to GLP-1 drug manufacturing equipment, Jon explains the products welders touch every day without anyone realizing it, and why 320,000 more welders are needed by 2029.

(19:00) – Why Your Best Welder Isn't Always Your Best Mentor: Jon tells the story of his most productive fabricator ever, a guy who could do a 1,000-hour project in 500 hours and still turned down every promotion to shop foreman.

(42:00) – Competing With the Data Center Boom for Tomorrow's Welders: Why data center construction is pulling skilled workers away with big money, and what a shop can offer that a relocation-required job can't.

Key Takeaways

New hires aren't going to be productive in the first 90 days, and treating that as a reality to plan around instead of a problem to rush through is what separates companies that retain people from ones that don't.

The best technical performer on a team is often the worst fit for mentoring someone new, patience and a genuine desire to take on someone else's problems matter more than raw skill.

A state-funded apprenticeship program can shift a meaningful chunk of a new hire's salary during training, but it only works with a real system behind it, not just goodwill and good intentions.

Shops competing for welders against data center construction jobs can win on stability (no travel, no relocation, steady hours) even when they can't win on raw pay.

About the Guest

Jon Ward is President and CEO of Ward Vessel and Exchanger, a Charlotte, North Carolina-based manufacturer of ASME Code pressure vessels and heat exchangers with a second facility in Houston, Texas. Founded in 1982 as a family business, the company builds equipment used across consumer products, industrial manufacturing, and pharmaceutical production. Jon is a 1994 UNC Charlotte engineering graduate, was appointed to the UNC Charlotte Board of Trustees in 2026, and was named among the Charlotte Business Journal's Most Admired CEOs the same year.

Jon has spent the last several years rebuilding Ward's onboarding, mentorship, and apprenticeship systems around a "people first" ethos built on three values: passionate, consistent, and selfless. He runs the company on EOS (the Entrepreneurial Operating System) and hosts his own podcast, Forged in Focus, where he talks with manufacturing leaders about the future of the industry.

Keywords

skilled trades, first 90 days onboarding, welder shortage, apprenticeship program, mentorship in the trades, employee retention, welding careers, manufacturing careers, NC Works apprenticeship, EOS Entrepreneurial Operating System, trade school vs college, data center construction jobs, Jon Ward, Ward Vessel and Exchanger, pressure vessels, heat exchangers, American Welding Society, Fabtech

RESOURCE LINKS

Jon Ward on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongward

Ward Vessel and Exchanger Website: https://wardvesselandexchanger.com

Forged in Focus (Jon's podcast): available on Spotify and YouTube

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

The AI and data center boom is creating a wave of new trade jobs for electricians, HVAC techs, and welders. Host Andrew Brown asks the real question: are we filling projects, or building tradespeople?

Every headline right now says the same thing: massive money pouring into new data centers, new energy infrastructure, new construction. That means a hiring wave for electricians, HVAC techs, pipefitters, and welders. But Andrew argues there's a difference between teaching someone the three tasks a specific project needs and actually training them in the trade, and most companies aren't paying attention to which one they're doing.

This episode connects directly to Andrew's First 90 Days framework: the reason a 22-year-old lasts 45 days on a data center job and then leaves isn't usually pay. It's that nobody owned Day 27, nobody checked in once the newness wore off, and nobody showed them where the job actually leads.

If you're hiring into this boom right now, whether you're staffing a data center project or just trying to bring new people into your trade, this episode is a direct, practical challenge: look at the last person you hired and ask what you're actually preparing them for, the project or their career.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – Intro: The AI and Data Center Boom: Why money, projects, and demand are flooding into the trades right now, and why that's genuinely good news.

(01:09) – Filling Projects vs. Building Tradespeople: The core question of the episode, are new hires becoming electricians, or becoming really good at two or three tasks one project needs.

(03:20) – Who Owns Day 27? The First 90 Days Connection: Day one is easy, HR and safety own it. Nobody owns the day the newness wears off, and that's when people actually decide to stay or leave.

(05:58) – Being Honest About Pay, Hours, and What the Work Really Looks Like: Six-figure trade jobs are real, but overselling the number without the overtime, nights, and travel behind it creates an expectations problem that turns into a retention problem.

(07:49) – Showing New Hires the Career Path, Not Just the Task: What it looks like to show someone the route from apprentice to journeyman to foreman to owning their own business, instead of just this week's assignment.

(10:16) – The Challenge to Employers: Project or Career?: A direct question for anyone hiring right now, would the person you just hired still have value if the work changed tomorrow?

Key Takeaways

Getting someone through the front door isn't the win, it's the start, the real return comes when they stay, get better, and eventually train the next person.

Nobody owns Day 27. HR and safety own Day 1, but almost no company has a clear answer for who checks in once the newness wears off.

Overselling six-figure trade pay without explaining the overtime, travel, or hours behind it creates an expectations problem that becomes a retention problem.

Training someone for a data center project isn't the same as training them for the electrical trade, one ends when the project does, the other doesn't.

About the Host

Andrew Brown is a keynote speaker, workforce strategist, and host of The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades. Before this, he spent 23 years running , a national B2B industrial tool supply company, giving him a real operator's view of the trades, not an outside consultant's.

His work centers on one idea: skilled-trades companies don't have a hiring problem, they have a First 90 Days problem. He helps organizations figure out not just how to get people into the trades, but how to keep them once they arrive and develop them into long-term skilled professionals.

Keywords

AI data centers, skilled trades careers, electrician training, HVAC technician, data center construction jobs, apprenticeship, first 90 days, day 27, workforce retention, career pathway, workforce shortage, Gen Z trades, Andrew Brown

RESOURCE LINKS

Andrew Brown, Speaking & Workforce Strategy: andrewbrownspeaker.com

The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades: andrewbrown.net

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

Travis Nevins of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades explains what a glazier actually does, and why this skilled trade career is everywhere you look and almost nobody can name it.

Every skyscraper facade, every mall handrail, every office glass partition, that's glazing. Travis has spent 25 years in the trade, and he opens by pointing out something most people never notice: glazing surrounds us constantly, yet it's one of the least recognized paths into the skilled trades.

Travis Nevins is the Deputy Director of Organizing at IUPAT. He spent five years as a glazier apprentice in New York, became a journey-level glazier, taught safety and upgrading courses for years, and now works to bring more people into the trade nationally.

This episode is for anyone weighing a skilled trade career, a parent looking for real alternatives to the college-only path, or anyone curious what happens after you say yes to an apprenticeship. Travis walks through the actual apprenticeship timeline, what separates people who thrive from people who burn out, and the one trait he says matters more than technical skill.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – What Is a Glazier? The Trade Hiding in Plain Sight: Travis explains glazing, from residential windows to skyscraper curtain walls, and why so few people know the trade exists.

(05:00) – Getting In: No Experience Needed, Just the Right Attitude: You don't need to know how to read a tape measure to start an apprenticeship, Travis explains what actually matters on day one.

(10:00) – Mentorship: Why the Best Mechanic Isn't Always the Best Mentor: Travis breaks down what makes a good mentor, and it's rarely the most technically skilled person on the crew.

(13:00) – Apprentice to Journey Worker: Pay, Progression, and the 8,000-Hour Mark: A typical apprenticeship runs three to four years with steady 5% raises every six months, and Travis ties it back to the 10,000-hour rule.

(18:00) – What Makes People Stay (and What Burns Them Out): Inconsistent work and long commutes push people out, Travis explains how to set realistic expectations before someone signs up.

(25:00) – The Ladder Story, How Glazing's Changed, and How to Get Started: Travis, who's afraid of heights, shares the story of forcing himself back up a 65-foot ladder, plus how safety culture and technology have transformed the trade.

Key Takeaways

Glazing is one of the most visible trades in the world and one of the least understood, most people who work with glass, aluminum, and facade systems never set out to become a glazier, they simply never heard of it as an option.

Attitude predicts success in a glazing apprenticeship more reliably than prior experience or technical aptitude, employers and mentors consistently choose a positive, coachable person over a more skilled but difficult one.

A typical IUPAT glazing apprenticeship runs three to four years and roughly 8,000 hours, with earn-while-you-learn pay that increases on a steady, predictable schedule.

The biggest reasons apprentices leave the trade are inconsistent work and the reality of travel, not the physical demands of the job itself, setting honest expectations up front matters more than recruiting harder.

About the Guest

Travis Nevins is the Deputy Director of Organizing at the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades (IUPAT). He spent five years as a New York State registered glazier apprentice before becoming a journey-level glazier at IUPAT District Council 4, Local 677, where he later taught health, safety, and journey-person upgrading courses. He spent seven years on staff at District Council 4 before moving to IUPAT's International Union in 2021.

Travis now works to bring more people into the glazing trade and IUPAT's other core trades, including commercial and industrial painting, drywall finishing, and floor covering, across a network of 105 training centers in the US and Canada.

Keywords

glazier, glazing trade, skilled trades career, glazier apprenticeship, apprenticeship program, journey worker, IUPAT apprenticeship, construction trades career, blue collar career, commercial glazing, curtain wall, facade installation, construction safety, trade school alternative, Travis Nevins, IUPAT, International Union of Painters and Allied Trades

RESOURCE LINKS

Travis Nevins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travis-nevins-43107b202/

IUPAT Website: https://www.iupat.org

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

Andreas Brockmann of United Grinding built an apprenticeship program that now gets 400 applicants for 5 spots — and it starts apprentices with hand tools, not machines.

Three years ago, United Grinding had 15 candidates for 4 apprenticeship positions. This year, they had over 400 applicants for 5 spots. Andreas Brockmann, the Apprenticeship Coordinator who built the program from scratch, says the shift didn't come from a hiring gimmick — it came from treating apprentices like real employees from day one: full benefits, a $19.50 starting wage, 15 days of vacation, and a four-year path to becoming a mechatronic technician.

Andreas reached out to Andrew after disagreeing with a LinkedIn post, making a simple but pointed argument: an 18-year-old can't walk into industry already knowing how to be a professional — companies have a responsibility to develop them. That conversation became this episode. Andreas unpacks exactly how United Grinding recruits, trains, and mentors apprentices in Miamisburg, Ohio — from six months on hand tools before anyone touches a machine, to bringing parents into the very first interview, to why CEO buy-in makes or breaks the whole thing.

This episode is for manufacturing leaders, HR and workforce development professionals, and trades employers who keep saying "young people don't want to work" — and are ready to hear a different explanation, and a real blueprint for fixing it.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – Meet Andreas Brockmann: Why a LinkedIn disagreement turned into this conversation about who's really responsible for developing young talent.

(02:00) – The 10% rule: Why United Grinding dedicates roughly 10% of its workforce to apprentices, and what that investment actually returns.

(09:00) – From 15 candidates to 400: How the program grew every year since it launched three years ago.

(10:00) – Hand tools before machines: Why apprentices spend six months on a workbench with files and chisels before they ever touch a drill press or CNC machine.

(15:00) – Getting the whole company bought in: Why apprenticeship programs die without the CEO "200% behind it," and how United Grinding builds and vets mentors.

(29:00) – Bringing parents into the process — and why Andreas believes the skilled trades talent gap is "our fault, not theirs."

Key Takeaways

Companies, not young workers, are responsible for closing the skilled trades talent gap — and treating apprentices like full employees from day one changes who applies and who stays.

Apprenticeship programs only survive difficult years if the CEO and leadership are fully bought in from the start; programs get cut first when budgets tighten, and that's the worst time to cut them.

Starting apprentices on hand tools for six months before machines builds fundamentals, patience, and pride in the work before productivity even becomes the goal.

Bringing parents and family into the recruiting process — not just the applicant — builds the home support system that determines whether an apprentice actually finishes the program.

About the Guest

Andreas Brockmann is the Apprenticeship Coordinator at United Grinding North America in Miamisburg, Ohio, where he built the company's four-year apprenticeship program from the ground up. An engineer by training with decades of manufacturing and workforce development experience, Andreas has grown the program from 15 applicants for 4 positions to over 400 applicants for 5 spots in just three years.

He works directly with local high schools, career centers, and even middle schools to build a talent pipeline for precision manufacturing careers, and regularly collaborates with other Ohio manufacturers on workforce-sharing and apprenticeship best practices.

Keywords

apprenticeship program, skilled trades apprenticeship, manufacturing apprenticeship, mechatronics technician, CNC apprenticeship, workforce development, Gen Z in the trades, apprentice mentorship, career pathways in manufacturing, tuition reimbursement, Andreas Brockmann, United Grinding, United Grinding North America, Miamisburg Ohio, manufacturing careers, industry 4.0, workforce shortage

RESOURCE LINKS

Andreas Brockmann on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreasbrockmann/

United Grinding Apprenticeship Program: https://www.grinding.com/en/about-us/our-team/apprenticeship-program/

WORK WITH ANDREW

Keynotes, workshops, podcast activations, and workforce storytelling for the skilled trades.

andrewbrownspeaker.com

Aircraft mechanic Joshua Borel of Chennault Aviation breaks down why the industry faces a 700,000-person shortage over the next 15 years — and how A&P techs build six-figure careers.

Joshua Borel didn't set out to work on airplanes for a living, but as Director of Maintenance at Chennault Aviation, he's now responsible for a fleet that ranges from a 1962 Piper to customer aircraft flown by first-time solo students. His rule is simple: you can't pull over at the next cloud. Once you're airborne, there are no second chances, so the work has to be right the first time — every time.

Joshua's path started in the Air Force as a C-5 crew chief before he went through A&P school and worked his way up to leading maintenance for a flight school, a Part 135 charter operation, and a Part 147 A&P academy. Along the way, he's coached students to first-place finishes in national maintenance competitions and helped train the next generation of aircraft mechanics from the ground up.

In this episode, Joshua walks through what it actually takes to become an aircraft maintenance technician: the schooling, the FAA testing, the starting wages, and the surprising ceiling on how far the career can go. He also unpacks a shortage most people outside the industry have never heard about — and why fixing it matters for anyone who's ever stepped on a plane.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – No Second Chances: What sets an aircraft mechanic apart from a general mechanic is integrity — once a plane is in the air, there's no fixing a mistake mid-flight.

(08:00) – Breaking Into the Trade: How to shadow a shop, what an 18-month A&P program looks like, and what the FAA's oral and practical DME exam actually tests.

(13:00) – The Pay Ceiling Isn't Real: Aircraft mechanics start around $20–25 an hour, but Joshua explains how adding certifications and experience can lead to six-figure, even C-suite, aviation careers.

(15:00) – The 700,000 Mechanic Shortage: Why the U.S. government doesn't classify A&P as a skilled trade, and how that gap leaves students facing $40,000–$70,000 in school costs without the funding help other trades get.

(17:00) – Not Rocket Science: An A&P license qualifies mechanics to legally work on Falcon 9, Artemis, and Blue Origin spacecraft — no advanced degree required.

(19:00) – Mentorship That Pays It Forward: What separates a mentor worth going back to from one you avoid, and how Joshua's own mentors shaped his career.

Key Takeaways

Integrity is the defining trait of an aircraft mechanic — the job has zero tolerance for "I'll fix it later" because there's no pulling over once you're in the air.

Getting started in aircraft maintenance typically means an 18-month A&P program followed by FAA oral and practical testing, with entry-level pay around $20–25 an hour and no real ceiling on where the career can lead.

The aviation industry needs over 700,000 new mechanics in the next 15–20 years, and the shortage is made worse because A&P isn't federally recognized as a skilled trade — cutting students off from funding help for their $40,000–$70,000 schooling.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work on a rocket — an A&P license is the same certification that qualifies mechanics to legally maintain Falcon 9, Artemis, and Blue Origin spacecraft.

About the Guest

Joshua Borel is the Director of Maintenance at Chennault Aviation in Conroe, Texas, where he oversees maintenance across a Part 61 flight school, a Part 135 charter operation, and a Part 147 A&P training academy. He got his start in the Air Force as a C-5 crew chief before earning his A&P license and working his way up through the ranks at Chennault, where he's spent the last eight years.

Joshua now coaches Chennault's aviation maintenance competition team — the same competition he competed in as a student — and is helping lead efforts to close the industry's growing workforce shortage through expanded scholarship access and new flight and maintenance school locations.

Keywords

aircraft mechanic, A&P mechanic, aircraft maintenance technician, airframe and powerplant, aviation maintenance career, A&P school, FAA certification, aircraft mechanic salary, aviation workforce shortage, skilled trades career, aviation career pathway, avionics, general aviation, Piper aircraft, aerospace careers, Joshua Borel, Chennault Aviation, Chennault Aviation Academy, 69th DRS Flying Tigers, Boeing, SpaceX

RESOURCE LINKS

Chennault Aviation Website: https://caacxo.com/

69th DRS Flying Tigers Scholarships: https://69thdrsscholarships.org/

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Employee retention doesn't start with recruiting it starts with the first 90 days. Host Andrew Brown breaks down what construction and manufacturing leaders do differently to keep new hires from quietly walking out the door.

After more than a hundred interviews for The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades, Andrew set out to learn how companies recruit better. Instead, he kept hearing the same thing from guests across every trade, every state, every generation: nobody stays because of a great application process. They stay because of a person — a foreman, a mentor, a superintendent — who noticed them in the first few weeks on the job.

This episode pulls together the pattern hiding in plain sight across dozens of conversations, including moments with welder Nate Bowman, workforce leader Glenda Rahn, Zekelman Industries CEO Barry Zekelman, and NCCER President and CEO Boyd Worsham. Each one, without knowing it, described the same three leadership behaviors that determine whether a new hire builds a career with your company or quietly starts looking elsewhere.

If you lead a crew, run a shop, or manage new hires in any skilled trade, this episode gives you three practical moves to make this week — no bigger recruiting budget or new software required.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:01) – The WTF moment: Why leaders get blindsided when a good employee quits without warning, and why the instinct to "recruit better" misses the real problem.

(02:03) – The pattern behind 100+ interviews: How Andrew kept asking about recruiting and kept hearing about mentors instead, including Nate Bowman's welding helmet story and what it reveals about belonging.

(09:32) – Pattern 1, Expectations: Glenda Rahn on why the "work ethic" problem is really a clarity problem, and what a 22-year-old project engineer told Andrew he actually wants from a leader.

(14:35) – Pattern 2, Where leadership disappears: Barry Zekelman on walking the floor, the difference between orientation and onboarding, and why every leader needs to answer "who owns day 27?"

(16:42) – Pattern 3, Confidence: Boyd Worsham's story about the instructor who taught him "the business of construction," not just the trade.

(23:34) – The 3-part challenge: make success visible, check in before there's a problem, and give people a chance to succeed.

Key Takeaways

New hires decide whether they belong within the first 90 days — and that decision, not the recruiting process, is what determines whether they stay long term.

Clear expectations beat motivation every time. Telling a new employee exactly what success looks like at day 7, 30, and 90 removes the uncertainty that causes early turnover.

Onboarding is a relationship, not a one-day event. Leaders who put short check-ins on the calendar at day 14, 30, and 60 catch small problems before they become resignation letters.

Confidence is built through experience, not given through speeches. Leaders who hand new employees real responsibility before they feel fully ready create the evidence that keeps people committed to a career, not just a job.

About This Episode

Andrew Brown hosts The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades, where he's interviewed hundreds of contractors, CEOs, foremen, apprentices, and workforce leaders across construction, manufacturing, and the skilled trades. This episode is a synthesis, not a single interview — it draws on recurring moments from guests including welder Nate Bowman, workforce development leader Glenda Rahn, Zekelman Industries CEO Barry Zekelman, and NCCER President and CEO Boyd Worsham.

Their stories, told independently and without ever meeting each other, kept describing the same leadership behaviors — proof that the biggest opportunity in the skilled trades isn't just recruiting more people, it's leading the people who already said yes.

Keywords

employee onboarding, first 90 days, new hire retention, construction leadership, skilled trades retention, onboarding vs orientation, employee expectations, workforce retention, apprenticeship mentorship, construction workforce development, Andrew Brown, Nate Bowman, Glenda Rahn, Barry Zekelman, Zekelman Industries, Boyd Worsham, NCCER, The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades, manufacturing leadership, Gen Z workforce, foreman mentorship, employee belonging, workplace culture

RESOURCE LINKS

Andrew Brown: www.andrewbrownspeaker.com

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

Aircraft maintenance apprentice Miyah Spade of Canadian Helicopters breaks down what it really takes to keep planes and helicopters safely in the air — and why almost nobody knows this trade exists.

Miyah just walked off the floor of an international aerospace maintenance skills competition in Orlando, where her team was the only one to fully complete their event — removing and reinstalling a 150-pound aircraft slide under a strict manual, timed, and inspected to the letter. She talks about what it takes to hold that much information under pressure, and introduces the "Dirty Dozen" — the twelve human factors, like distraction, pressure, and complacency, that aviation maintenance crews are trained to watch for on every real job, not just in competition.

Miyah is an aircraft maintenance apprentice studying at Centennial College and working with Canadian Helicopters. She didn't grow up wrenching on dirt bikes or cars — she found her way in through a high school welding and auto shop class, then chose aircraft maintenance over auto body repair because, in her words, "it has a nice ring to it." Since then she's worked on everything from small Cessnas and Pipers to airliners and helicopters, including hands-on time in an overhaul shop tearing apart a helicopter's main rotor head after a real accident.

If you're weighing a trade you've never heard of, wondering how to break into aviation without a four-year degree, or trying to figure out how to stand out when resumes get lost in a pile, this conversation is for you.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – Cold Open: A "Dirty Dozen" teaser and a first look at Miyah Spade, aircraft maintenance apprentice at Canadian Helicopters.

(01:07) – Only Team to Finish: Recapping the skills competition event Miyah just completed — removing and reinstalling a 150-pound aircraft slide under strict, line-by-line inspection.

(02:57) – The Dirty Dozen: The twelve human factors — pressure, distraction, complacency — that aviation maintenance crews are trained to watch for every time they sign off on a real aircraft.

(03:48) – From Welding to Wings: How a high school auto shop and welding class led Miyah away from cars and into aircraft maintenance.

(07:09) – Choosing Helicopters: Why Miyah picked helicopters over big airliners — camping in the bush under a tarp, and landing a job with Canadian Helicopters.

(13:30) – Like a Detective: Tearing apart a helicopter's main rotor head after a real accident, and why talking to people beats sending resumes when breaking into the trade.

Key Takeaways

Aircraft maintenance is a skilled trade almost nobody knows about, even though every flight's safety depends on the mechanics working behind the scenes, not just the pilot.

Aviation safety culture is built around the "Dirty Dozen" — pressure, distraction, and complacency are treated as real, named threats, not just workplace buzzwords.

You don't need a childhood spent under the hood of a car to succeed in this trade — Miyah came from art and a single high school shop class, not a family of mechanics.

Networking beats resumes in aircraft maintenance hiring — cold applications get lost in the pile, but a phone call or a walk-in conversation with a director of maintenance can open doors a resume never will.

About the Guest

Miyah Spade is an aircraft maintenance apprentice studying at Centennial College and working with Canadian Helicopters. Across her apprenticeship she's worked on small training aircraft, airliners, and helicopters, and spent a summer in Canadian Helicopters' overhaul shop and technical records department getting exposure to nearly every side of the operation.

She competed at an international aerospace maintenance skills competition, was part of the only team to fully complete her event, and now advocates for getting more trade exposure in front of students who don't know aircraft maintenance is even an option.

Keywords

aircraft maintenance technician, aircraft maintenance engineer, helicopter mechanic, aviation maintenance apprentice, AME apprenticeship, aviation maintenance career, skilled trades in aviation, aircraft mechanic training, Centennial College aviation program, Miyah Spade, Canadian Helicopters, Aerospace Maintenance Competition, women in skilled trades, Sikorsky helicopters

RESOURCE LINKS

Miyah Spade on LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/miyahspade

Canadian Helicopters Website: https://www.canadianhelicopters.com/

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.