The Marcel Podcast

Jim Detert is this week’s guest on Love In Action. He is a Professor at the University of Virginia's Darden School of Business Administration and the world’s foremost expert on workplace courage. Jim discovered that courage is a skill that anyone can learn and develop over time. Jim’s new book, Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work, explores why people speak up or stay silent at work, and teaches you how to channel your emotions and take action with the right attitude and approach.Jim defines courageous acts. “A courageous act at work is something you do for a worthy cause despite perceived risk, and those risks might be career [related], economic, social or psychological.” [6:45]Marcel asks Jim to share how he conducted his research. “I used all kinds of methods in a lot of cases,” he replies. “I collected deep, rich stories from the actors themselves, and sometimes I asked people to report on others’ courageous acts… I surveyed thousands of people to understand what kinds of behaviors were at play, why people behave how they do, and what skills seem to make a difference in how the acts go.” [15:17] Whistleblowers are workers that take internal problems external, Jim says. Despite laws against retaliation, whistleblowers tend to get “clobbered emotionally” and often lose their careers, reputation, friendships, and relationships, as well as their jobs. Yet even after all this, they confidently say they would do it again. “We have a code that tells us what’s right and wrong, and there seem to be very few people who regret it in the long term after they stand up for who they are,” he claims. [23:37]According to Jim, there are a number of factors to consider when choosing battles at work. One such factor is how important an issue is to you and others. “I can notice 42 things a day that irritate me about my work environment and that I could speak up about, but if I overdo it on Monday about a couple of relatively trivial things, when the big one comes on Thursday, nobody wants to hear me anymore,” he explains. [31:19]In most cultures, especially for men, anger is the acceptable way of expressing hurt or pain. If you see someone acting with anger, as a leader you owe it to them to investigate the root of their anger and display care, rather than dismissing them immediately. Not being bothered to even try finding out what may be wrong is not a sign of a caring leader. Jim and Marcel explore how fear influences leadership. [36:56]“Reasonable people adapt to the world around them; unreasonable people try to change the world around them. That's why all change depends on unreasonable people,” Jim quotes. “My calling in life is to be functionally unreasonable. We can’t change systems and long embedded beliefs without having the courage to challenge them and push for something that might seem crazy or outlandish at first.” [44:36]ResourcesJim Detert on LinkedIn

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Heather Younger is on a mission to ensure leaders use their power to make the workplace a safe space. An experienced keynote speaker, trainer, and consultant, her recent book, The Art of Caring Leadership: How Leading With Heart Uplifts Teams & Organizations, emphasizes the need for leaders to model kindness, compassion and empathy, and outlines nine ways to manifest the radical power of caring support in the workplace. She is Marcel Schwantes’ guest this week on Love In Action.Heather talks about the experience at a previous job that inspired her to pursue leadership development and employee engagement as a career. “I realized I needed to be … that voice for those who didn't ordinarily have a voice at the table, who often felt like they were hopeless and helpless,” she shares. [3:31]If the top leadership isn’t open and humble enough to recognize and accept they may be responsible for their company’s issues, half the battle is already lost, Marcel says. “They have to champion the change management. They have to champion a new way of doing things,” he adds. [10:12]Heather shares the story of WD-40’s CEO’s pivot to leading with care, and why it’s a business imperative. After changing the way he viewed and interacted with employees, the bottom line of their company increased exponentially. By putting care into the workforce, he created a vision that rallied shareholders, stakeholders and customers and significantly improved performance. WD-40’s employee engagement scores reach 96% year after year. [14:37]Soft skills are the new hard skills. Leaders that think empathy, compassion, and kindness are ‘too squishy’ are the ones that fail to step up with courage, Marcel remarks. He and Heather discuss the importance of cultivating self-leadership skills as a prerequisite to being a leader. [23:00]Listening is an important part of leading with care, according to Heather. “In order for [listening] to be effective, it has to be bidirectional,” she claims.”It’s not just you sitting and hearing; it’s you asking the right questions, going back and forth [with] dialogue. Most people think listening is shutting up, but not always. In fact, the most effective listening [involves] asking the right questions, open and closed.” [29:34]“How do you get people to go above and beyond in an environment [that bred] the Great Resignation?” Heather explores ways to motivate your employees. While money and bonuses are good incentives, they can only go so far in encouraging people to actively engage and perform at their best ability in an otherwise toxic environment.  “Do they feel like they're on a mission that is bigger than themselves? Do they feel like they're involved in meaningful work? If the answer to both is no, money [as an incentive] isn’t going to last.” [34:29]ResourcesHeather Younger on LinkedIn | TwitterHeatherYounger.com 

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Jennifer Musselman is a globally recognized executive coach and a licensed marriage and family therapist for high-performing executives and entrepreneurs. She has been featured on Psychology Today, Forbes, and Huffington Post. She specializes in emotional intelligence, navigating conflict among leaders and couples, anxiety, burnout, and stress and depression management. With 20 years of experience as an executive at Fortune 500 companies, Jennifer intimately understands the pressures her clients face in having to do a balancing act with their professional goals and their personal life. She is this week’s guest on this special episode of Love In Action, which is both an interview and a live consultation.Jennifer recalls her negative experiences within a toxic workplace. “There was a change in leadership at the top that completely altered how people started connecting and relating with each other,” she says. “What I didn’t understand was the workplace trauma… even my personal therapist didn’t know how to handle it because therapists aren’t trained for that.” She describes the harmful effects that followed in her personal life, and how it motivated her to study organizational psychology. [5:07]Marcel asks Jennifer for tips on how to manage our emotions during a state of languishing. Self-care through self-reflection can help you recenter yourself, she replies, and doing so with a trained professional is even better. “Sometimes we need someone to get us out of our bodies and heads.” [10:18]Leadership is about modeling the behavior that you espouse across the board, Jennifer defines. A good leader actively practices the values of their family, their company, and their country. [16:17]Jennifer shares a recording of a live consultation with one of her clients, a CEO of a technology company. She helps her client explore the ups and downs of the recent happenings in his life, and how he has been mitigating them. They discuss:When conflicts in your personal life clash with your professional life. “I need to be focused for the team, and I can’t let personal things seep into how I present myself in the business, but unfortunately it has,” her client shares. “It’s been a challenge in the last few weeks.” [19:05]How to pull yourself out of a low-energy slump. “Everyone needs their own process of self-reflection,” Jennifer advises. “Find moments of personal reflection, which includes your thoughts… and then pay attention to how you behave. Having a chart of that gives you a better understanding of yourself and how you handle these moments.” [26:42]Mastering self-efficacy. “[Self-efficacy] is embracing that [you] don’t have to have all the answers; [you’re] in process. The answers will come, and you’ve created the network of people to lean on,” Jennifer remarks. [33:37]Jennifer rejoins Marcel to talk about key takeaways from her session with her client.According to Jennifer, there’s a fear of being perceived as weak when you’re in a position of power, particularly in men. People see when you’re struggling and can create their own narratives about what might be happening, so it would be beneficial to be a little transparent with them. Expressing vulnerability creates a bond with your coworkers, and gives people the opportunity to support you. [42:48]“Our minds, hearts, and bodies are connected,” Jennifer says. “When we start to feel emotional, there’s a physiological reaction… The first thing you have to do is get a hold of that sensation in your body… deep breathing connects you to your heart.” [45:00]Leaders need to allow employees to have a voice, Marcel comments. It’s not just handing down decisions from the mountain top; employees should be able to voice their concerns, input, and even ideas. That’s the caring part of leadership, he adds. [49:23]ResourcesJennifer Musselman on LinkedIn | TwitterJenniferMusselman.

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A special thanks to our sponsor, Phenom, for making this episode possible. Building an inclusive workplace that truly puts employees first doesn’t happen overnight. To help employers get started, the team at Phenom created The Definitive Guide to Diversity, Equity & Inclusion for HR. In it, HR leaders and practitioners will learn how to build and implement creative — and authentic — DE&I strategies that connect with employees. Check it out at phenom.com/blog/diversity-and-inclusion-guide. Mahe Bayireddi is CEO and co-founder of Phenom, a global leader in the HR technology space with a mission to help a billion people find the right job. Their AI-based SaaS platform, TXM, connects all stakeholders in the hiring cycle for a personalized talent acquisition experience. Also an official member of Forbes Technology Council and serial entrepreneur, Mahe is passionate about using software to fundamentally transform the talent journey. He is this week’s guest on Love in Action, sponsored by Phenom.In the age of the Great Resignation, COVID-19, and the rapid transition to a virtual workplace, leaders need to step up and demonstrate care in a business context more than ever before, Marcel Schwantes comments. He asks Mahe to talk about his background. “My story consists of three things: my family, Phenom, and my spiritual evolution. Those are my priorities,” Mahe shares. [1:58]“The core principle of meditation is being quiet so you can control your thoughts… That quiet place [allows] you to reflect on who you want to be. [By doing that], I can lead [Phenom] better,” Mahe remarks. That quiet place can also enable you to drown out noise you don’t need and orient yourself to one direction, Marcel adds. [5:47]Mahe discusses Phenom’s mission. For Phenom, ‘right’ isn’t about just getting a job; it’s about connecting with the purpose of the company, actualizing your full potential, and becoming the best person you can be. It’s a journey, not a destination, Mahe says. He talks about the culture at Phenom and his definition of leadership. “Leadership, to me, is ruthless compassion. You should be ruthless in delivering results, but compassionate for those you work with.” [14:24]According to Mahe, everything happens for a reason. “Nothing happens to screw you up,” he claims. The toughest parts of your life are opportunities to learn and grow, and being positive enables you to tap into that. “When we interview people, we ask them to start with a story, and we look at how they construct it. We don’t mind if they’re skeptical; as long as they’re not cynical.” [17:18]The Great Resignation is less about remote work, and more about people reflecting on their fulfillment at their places of employment, Mahe says. Every generation has a different set of expectations, and things like CSR and ESG are timely concerns in today’s age. The Great Resignation is a result of those concerns coming to the forefront. [25:58]Leadership involves compassion and ruthlessness. The ruthlessness is for the greater purpose, and the compassion is for the individuals who contribute to that purpose. Being a good leader is like being a parent, Mahe asserts. “A lot of leaders prefer to be good uncles rather than parents. It’s easy to be a good uncle, but it’s much harder to be an average parent.” [30:58]ResourcesMahe Bayireddi on LinkedIn | TwitterPhenomPeople.com

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Jen Fisher is Marcel Schwantes’ guest this week on the Love In Action podcast. Jen is Chief Well-being Officer at Deloitte, where she evolved the health and wellness program into a first-of-its-kind holistic and inclusive well-being strategy. Jen empowers Deloitte's people to prioritize their well-being so they can be at their best in both their professional and personal lives. In her role, she drives the strategy and innovation around work, life, health, and wellness. Jen is the co-author of the bestselling book, Work Better Together: How to Cultivate Strong Relationships to Maximize Well-Being and Boost Bottom Lines. Jen shares her experience as a working employee going through chemotherapy and the valuable lesson she learned in those difficult times. “Why do we give ourselves permission to set boundaries when we're sick, but not when we're well?” [4:07]“We’ve adopted all this technology, but we haven’t adapted to it very well,” Jen claims. “In my own words, the technology is using us, not the other way around. ... It’s more about how we, as human beings, choose to use it in our lives that has a negative impact. Our society has become this ‘always on 24/7, constantly connected’ society.” [10:21]Skills like empathy, compassion, authenticity, and emotional intelligence are not “soft”; they’re essential. According to Jen, they play a key role in the future of work because they cannot be replicated by machines or AI. Instead of fearing that technology is going to put us out of work, we should be celebrating that we can focus on humanizing the workplace. [17:27]Marcel asks Jen what organizations can do to maximize their employees’ well-being, to decrease burnout, and increase engagement and productivity. “The area you want to get to is trusted teams, which value human connection, relationships, and individual well-being,” she responds. “You achieve that through creating a culture of psychological safety, where people feel like they can show up as their authentic selves and ask for what they need.” [23:45]Essential skills are the skill set of the future. They can and need to be learned, taught, and brought into organizations by leaders who are tuned into them. These organizations are the ones that will truly thrive, Jen comments. [31:32]“The mascot we assigned for trusted teams is a dolphin, so [my co-author and I] want everyone to be a dolphin,” Jen encourages. “Communication and relationships are really important to dolphins; they do things in packs but they're also really great individual performers; they hunt, and they take care of their kids, but they're also very playful in their spirit… Be a dolphin not just at the workplace, but also in your personal life.” [34:56]ResourcesJen Fisher on LinkedInWork Better Together: How to Cultivate Strong Relationships to Maximize Well-Being and Boost Bottom Lines.

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Robin Ganzert is President and CEO at American Humane, an organization dedicated to ensuring the welfare and safety of animals while strengthening the bond between them and humans. She is a global nonprofit executive and has been featured on CNN, World News Tonight, Fox Business News, and other notable media outlets. Robin is also an author, radio host, and the Executive Producer of the hit television show: Hallmark Channel’s American Humane Hero Dog Awards. Her recent book, Mission Metamorphosis: Leadership for a Humane World, is an inspiration guide to increasing business revenue and efficiency while effecting positive change in the world. She is this week’s guest on this episode of Love In Action, sponsored by Duck Creek Technologies.American Humane was founded in 1877 and is America’s oldest national humane organization. They were behind every major advancement for animals and children from then to modern times, Robin claims. [6:46]Marcel asks Robin to explain the idea behind Mission Metamorphosis and why she wrote it. “We rebuilt this incredible crown jewel in America’s humane movement, and I thought that story had to be told,” she responds. “Often, when people start working in a philanthropic organization, they’re so in love with the mission that they forget there’s a business that is needed behind running the mission. That’s when they can lose their way. That story about marrying the mission to a business model was necessary to tell.” [14:59]You can have a great business strategy, but if your organizational culture is one that doesn’t support the organization’s mission, it will be all for naught, Robin advises. When people aren’t inspired to do work that is noble and excellent, they lose their sense of pride, and the culture suffers. [19:46]Robin shares some of the tough decisions she’s had to make over the years as leader of American Humane. “When you're a CEO, a leader, you have to have moral courage to make those tough decisions in the toughest times when you're really being tested, and you have to have a [strong] belief in the mission and your own vision,” she adds. [22:30]There were many institutional obstacles in Robin’s professional journey by virtue of her gender alone. She talks about the challenges she faced being a woman in the Southern workforce. [26:40]While it’s easier to break the glass ceiling in the nonprofit world, it doesn’t mean it’s a walk in the park. When Robin was hired at American Humane, there was a huge gap between her salary and the salary of the interim CEO. Robin also addresses the lesser-known acts committed against women leaders, including online sexual harassment. [32:05]“I believe that we can all build a more humane world for people, animals, and the world we share,” Robin remarks. “I would like everyone to join that effort.” [38:42] A special thanks to our sponsor, Duck Creek Technologies for making the episode possible. Built for insurance, by insurance. Duck Creek Technologies offers the vision and tools you need to drive your business in 2021 and beyond. Visit www.duckcreek.com to learn more.ResourcesRobin Ganzert on LinkedIn | Twitter AmericanHumane.org | RobinGanzert.comMission Metamorphosis: Leadership for a Humane World

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A special thanks to our sponsor, Duck Creek Technologies for making the episode possible. Built for insurance, by insurance. Duck Creek Technologies offers the vision and tools you need to drive your business in 2021 and beyond. Visit www.duckcreek.com to learn more.***Colleen Ammerman is the Director of Gender Initiative at Harvard Business School. She has authored various articles and teaching materials on gender and work, and her research with Harvard Business School Alumni examines how race, gender, and other factors shaped their life and career experiences after grad school. Her colleague is Boris Groysberg, Professor of Business Administration. He is the author of the award-winning book Chasing Stars: The Myth of Talent. A frequent contributor to Harvard Business Review, Boris has written more than 100 articles and case studies on how firms hire, engage, develop, retain, and communicate with diverse talents to create inclusive cultures.Their book, Glass Half Broken: Shattering the Barriers That Still Hold Women Back at Work, aims to peel open the curtain on the pervasive managerial actions and organizational obstacles that perpetuate the gender gap. They are joint guests in this week’s episode of Love In Action, sponsored by Duck Creek Technologies.We’ve made high strides in the fight for gender equality for the last 10-15 years, Marcel says. The gap between the percentage of men and women in the workplace has been the lowest in history as of two years ago. However, women remain underrepresented in positions of authority, despite making up roughly half (and sometimes the majority) of the workforce. [1:32]“It can be easy to be a little cynical and pessimistic when you realize how far we have to go even though we’ve made so much progress,” Colleen comments. “But doing the research for the book made me feel inspired and hopeful, after talking to a lot of people who were committed to being change agents.” [10:02]“[In writing the book], we were trying to do something that would be [both] rigorous and actionable,” Boris shares. “We were determined to write a book that will have practical implications for organizations [and] managers. The other thing that we were trying to do was… see if we could actually get men involved in creating more diverse and more inclusive organizations. If the [specific] group of people is not involved [in that process]... we will only make minimalistic progress, at best.” [11:07]Colleen witnessed first-hand how many women’s self-confidence had been chipped away when they realized their path to success was littered with seemingly impossible hurdles and obstacles. It’s a loss of human potential, she adds. Even women with advantages like an education from Harvard were finding their paths blocked. [15:50]The main difference between men and women is sociological in nature, not biological, Colleen claims. Their behavior looks different, but if you investigate it, you will find that it’s because they are experiencing a different environment, even on the same team or in the same organization. The difficulties women face in moving up the ranks is due to how they are treated, and not caused by gender makeup. [19:26]Women fall through the cracks in moving up the ranks at every level, according to Boris. It happens in hiring, integration, development, promotions, compensations, and across the board. “This cumulative effect is why we have organizations that still aren’t very inclusive,” he remarks. “Additionally, many companies are more focused on the D in D and I. Diversity is about counting the numbers, but inclusiveness is about making the numbers count.” [29:27]ResourcesColleen Ammerman on LinkedIn | TwitterBoris Groysberg on LinkedInGlass Half Broken: Shattering the Barriers That Still Hold Women Back at Work

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A special thanks to our sponsor, Duck Creek Technologies for making the episode possible. Built for insurance, by insurance. Duck Creek Technologies offers the vision and tools you need to drive your business in 2021 and beyond. Visit www.duckcreek.com to learn more.***Robert Glazer is the founder and CEO of global partnership marketing agency Acceleration Partners. A serial entrepreneur, award-winning executive, and accomplished operator, Bob has a passion for helping individuals and organizations build their capacity and elevate their performance. Bob is a Wall Street Journal and USA Today international bestselling author of four books, his most recent being How To Thrive In The Virtual Workplace: Simple and Effective Tips For Successful, Productive and Empowered Remote Work. He is this week’s guest on this episode of Love In Action, sponsored by Duck Creek Technologies.Marcel asks Bob about how he started his newsletter, Friday Forward. “I had a folder of just some quotes and some stories and things that I liked, so I started to fire off an email to my team… it's like spicy chicken soup for the soul [that] challenges you or pushes you to consider something… I don't know if anyone was even reading it but I was enjoying the process of thinking about these things and writing about them. And then 5 to 6 weeks later I heard from people that they really liked it… they were sharing it outside the company,” Bob shares. [5:58]People who oppose remote work may find themselves facing difficulties later down the line. “A notable CEO called remote work ‘an aberration that needs to be corrected as soon as possible,’ yet when the company released their earnings for the quarter with employees remote, it was recorded as the single highest revenue and profitability in the history of the company,” Bob remarks. “So clearly, something is working.” [13:55]Managers aren’t good at delegating, according to Bob. When a new manager comes in, they are rewarded for doing work, and their delegation skills suffer for it. [19:39]“When you get promoted to manager… you are now rewarded for how good your people are; you should be feeling that warm, fuzzy feeling when someone says ‘your team is crushing it,’ not ‘you were crushing it.’ You are the conductor, you're not playing the instruments,” Bob warns. [22:09]Marcel asks Bob what the secrets to his success are. “I try… to be consistent between what we believe, what we say, and what we do,” he responds. “I spent a lot of my time focusing on developing our people; it's what I enjoy. There's probably other aspects of being a CEO that I'm not as good at… I think what really frustrates people about leadership is people not being authentic,” he adds. [28:46]“My dominant core value is ‘find a better way and share it,’” Bob comments. “Self-reliance, respectful authenticity, long term orientation and health and vitality… I make decisions based on these things. The company values are own it, embrace relationships, excel, and improve.” [33:28]Leaders that want to reform their company culture should first work on their core values, Bob advises. “Figure out your personal core values and what the organization wants; be radically honest with the world about that and get the right people on board,” he says. [39:12]“I always find that [change] is not about committing to a huge [goal] on January 1st. I'm more likely to believe in the person that starts doing one or two little things than the one who says they’re going to change their life and lose 30 pounds,” Bob muses. “I always say to do the 1% rule: do just one thing better. 1% a day in that direction rather than stressing yourself out making huge changes is more likely to give you better outcomes.”ResourcesRobert Glazer on LinkedInHow To Thrive In The Virtual Workplace: Simple and Effective Tips For Successful, Productive and Empowered Remote

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As Chief Strategy Officer at Duck Creek Technologies, Eva Huston is responsible for building value for the technology and spearheading corporate strategy on a global scale. She is also an independent board member at E2open and previously served as CFO at Verisk Analytics, as well as Managing Director at JPMorgan. Eva is Marcel Schwantes’s guest on this episode of Love In Action. “I think that whenever you can bring your whole self [to work] ... you're just going to be better. Regardless of your background, everybody has something special to bring to the table,” Eva comments. [7:10]Marcel asks Eva to share lessons she learned moving up the ranks as a woman in a male dominated industry. “You'll hear that a theme in my career is that I would create a role that didn’t exist... It's finding new ways to bring value to a company,” she replies. “I tried to look for creative ways to approach things and some ways that might be more traditionally female.” [10:11]Leading with love starts by seeing and honoring the people on your team, Eva says. You would think that you would automatically do that while spending time with them, but it’s common to be around someone for a long time and still not truly see or honor them. Practical love starts when you look at who your team is, what motivates them, and what lies in their hearts. By doing that, you validate them as people. [17:37]“As you go up the leadership ranks, I think that you have to find ways to show your strength that are more indirect so people feel like they have that freedom to grow and flourish,” Eva shares. [21:38]Marcel asks Eva what leadership trait is the hardest to internalize and carry out. “Patience,” she responds. “It's hard for leaders because a person who views themselves as a leader wants to run forward and go fast and get things done. You almost have to counterbalance that with that patience and say like ‘Who's on my team? What do they have to bring?,’ and ‘Let's not start running at a target before we know what we've got here.’” [26:32]It’s hard to be soft, Eva claims, which is why soft skills are so hard to grasp. “That's just something that we as leaders have to realize: that being soft, being human, and being down to earth and approachable is what's going to make our businesses perform the best.” [30:42]A special thanks to our sponsor, Duck Creek Technologies for making the episode possible. Built for insurance, by insurance. Duck Creek Technologies offers the vision and tools you need to drive your business in 2021 and beyond. Visit www.duckcreek.com to learn more.ResourcesEva Huston on LinkedInDuck Creek Technologies | LinkedIn | Twitter

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Marcel Schwantes’ guest on this episode of Love In Action is Susan McPherson, founder, and CEO of McPherson Strategies. A renowned keynote speaker and facilitator at American Speakers Bureau, Susan is also a founding member of Kindred, and a board member at THE LIST and The 19th. She has over 25 years of experience in marketing, PR, and sustainability communications. Her most recent book - The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Business Relationships - provides insights on how to forge lasting relationships and foster value-based connections. Technology is a tool that helps us connect, but we tend to measure connection by clicks, likes, and followers, according to Susan. [9:06]Marcel shares his experience of seemingly genuine attempts at connection which turned out to be someone trying to sell him something. “When we reach out to others,” Susan advises, “lead with how you can be helpful; go as far as doing a little bit of research about the person before you reach out to them.” [12:49]We are now more wired than ever before, but somehow we're more disconnected from each other, Marcel claims. He asks Susan how we can address the current ‘loneliness epidemic.’ "I think intentionality has broken down the loneliness during this pandemic,” Susan replies. “One of the ways we can help ourselves be less lonely is by reaching out to the people that we know.” [19:05]“From a professional perspective, I learned early on that if you don’t have a seat at the table, you have to make your own. If you invite two people and ask them to bring two people, guess what: you're the convener, you're bringing the people together.  There’s joy, love, and power in that,” Susan remarks. [23:30]Research shows that friendships and meaningful connections at work directly impact an organization’s performance. Productivity skyrockets, turnover rates decrease, and people are more likely to recommend the company to someone they know and admire, Susan shares. [27:02]Marcel asks Susan how leaders can show love in the workplace. “I think we have to look inside ourselves and think about what our superpowers are, what our strengths are, and what we can do to help others. When we can find that, then we can share those with the people that we care about, the people that help us succeed,” she says. [31:59]ResourcesSusan McPherson on LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramThe Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Business Relationships

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