The Miscarriage Rebellion

Reflecting on a distinguished career at the forefront of reproductive medicine, Professor Bill Ledger—former Head of Obstetrics and Gynaecology at the Royal Hospital for Women in Randwick—has witnessed a profound cultural shift. Early in his career, the grief of early pregnancy loss was routinely pushed into the shadows. Today, while he acknowledges a welcome, hard-won openness in public conversation, Bill remains fiercely realistic about a critical gap: how this public openness translates into frontline clinical practice.

In this powerful episode, Prof Bill Ledger joins Sam to discuss why institutional healthcare settings still too often default to clinical detachment, leaving vulnerable families to navigate reproductive trauma wrapped in cold, sterile language. He shares the definitive moment of connection when he met Pink Elephants co-founder Sam, and why he pioneered a new approach to professional development by inviting her lived experience directly into the lecture halls of his senior medical and midwifery staff.

• Breaking the Silence: Bill’s reflections on moving away from a time when pregnancy loss was shrouded in societal discomfort to an era where families find the courage to speak their babies' names.
• The Structural Gap in Care: Why medical compliance isn't enough, and how clinical settings can unintentionally isolate families using detached or abrasive language.
• Textbooks vs. Lived Experience: Inside Bill’s decision to bridge the gap between clinical excellence and deep human empathy by bringing Sam’s voice directly to his senior obstetricians and gynaecologists.
• Compassionate language: Bill’s vision for the next decade—formalising soft communication skills across the Australian healthcare system so that medical responses shift seamlessly from clinical management to an intuitive circle of support.

Help us Celebrate 10 Years & Donate: Help us show up for the next decade. Your donation ensures we can continue providing a circle of support for families who experience early pregnancy loss.. Donate here

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone. Connect with our services:

• Live Chat with Peer Support
• Online Communities
• Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on Instagram.
• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.

In this incredibly special, celebratory season of The Miscarriage Rebellion, host Sam Payne welcomes Natalie Khoury to share a story that beautifully illustrates a decade of Pink Elephants' community impact. Nat opens her heart about her deeply personal journey through recurring early pregnancy loss—experiencing three heartbreaking losses in quick succession after her marriage in 2024.

With immense vulnerability, Nat takes us through the invisible trauma of navigating silent losses, the grief of packed-away memories, and the unique, high-anxiety reality of pregnancy after loss. But this is also a story of immense celebration and hope. Nat shares the joy of welcoming her "magic" baby boy.

This conversation is a testament to the power of breaking the silence and a celebration of the strength found in community. Whether you are walking through your own valley of grief or are here to learn how to better support a loved one, Nat’s story offers a gentle reminder that you are never truly alone.

Together, they discuss:

• The Invisible Trauma: Navigating hospital systems that lack empathy and leaving without follow-ups or checks.
• The Grieving Process: The visceral experience of early loss and the pain of "packing it away" only to find it is always with you.
• A Bridge to Understanding: How Nat used the podcast to help her husband, family, and friends understand the deep depths of her grief.
• Pregnancy After Loss: Validating the anxiety, fear, and hyper-vigilance that doesn't simply disappear after a positive test.
• A Future of Compassion: Nat’s heartfelt hopes for a world with better language, open conversations, and deeper education around miscarriage.

Help us Celebrate 10 Years & Donate: Help us show up for the next decade. Your donation ensures we can continue providing a circle of support for families just like Nat's. Donate here

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone. Connect with our services:

• Live Chat with Peer Support
• Online Communities
• Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.
• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.

Ten years ago, The Pink Elephants Support Network wasn’t born in a corporate boardroom—it started over a single, pivotal cup of coffee between co-founders Sam and Gabbi. Brought together by a shared understanding of reproductive trauma and loss, they recognised a devastatingly ignored systemic void in the Australian healthcare model.

In this episode, Sam sits down with co-founder Gabbi to look back on a decade of advocacy, validation, and system change. Gabbi opens up about the raw power of peer support, the early days of building a registered charity from the ground up, and how they turned big-picture visions into the evidence-based emotional frameworks that protect thousands of Australian families today.

• The Power of "You are not alone": How a shared experience of loss sparked a movement to ensure no one has to experience the journey of early pregnancy loss alone.
• From The Kitchen Table: A look behind the scenes at how Gabbi helped translated grassroots community needs into structured, empathetic, and evidence-based support resources.
• The Perfect Harmony: How Sam’s visionary, media-ready energy paired with Gabbi’s methodical, structural precision to build an unshakeable foundation.
• A Vision for the Future: Gabbi’s hope for the next decade—eliminating the clinical coldness of lonely hospital releases and ensuring that postcode or location never dictates the quality of care.

Help us Celebrate 10 Years & Donate: Help us show up for the next decade. Your donation ensures we can continue providing a circle of support for families impacted by early pregnancy loss. Donate here.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone. Connect with our services:

• Emotional support resources
• Live Chat with Peer Support
• Online Communities
• Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.
• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.

In the final episode of Season 2 of the podcast , our host Sam is joined by the phenomenal Dr. Jessica Zucker a Los Angeles-based psychologist specialising in women's reproductive and maternal mental health, and the author of I Had a Miscarriage and Normalize It.

Dr. Jessica shares her personal and professional worlds colliding after her own devastating loss, including the traumatic experience of an unmedicated D&C. As a seasoned professional, she was shocked to realise she did not have the necessary tools to navigate her own profound grief and isolation.

This conversation delves into the heart of the movement Dr. Jessica started to dismantle the pervasive silence, stigma, and shame surrounding pregnancy loss. It is a critical discussion for anyone who has experienced loss, those supporting them, and anyone interested in improving women's health outcomes.

Together they discuss:

• The Power of Professional Vulnerability.
• The Trifecta of Shame
• The Antidote is Storytelling
• Toxic Platitudes
• Systemic Change
• Therapy's Crucial Role

Connect with Dr. Jessica

• @Ihadamiscarriage
• Jessica Zucker, Ph.D.
• I Had a Miscarriage: A Memoir, a Movement: Excellent for those who have recently experienced a loss.
• Normalize It: Upending the Silent Stigma and Shame that Shape Women's Lives: Broadens the lens to discuss the power of storytelling across many aspects of women's lives.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
• Access all our support
• Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
• Join Online Communities
• Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Join the Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.

• The critical role of support and therapy in navigating the acute stages of grief.
  
• The devastating reality of the medical system's language, such as "pregnancy tissue," and the emotional desensitization that can occur after prolonged fertility treatment.
  
• The societal discomfort with baby loss and why the grief from miscarriage and stillbirth is often invisible and isolating.
  
• Samantha's experience grappling with the difficult concept of "choice" during a TFMR and the need to prioritize the baby's quality of life.
  
• The misconception that moving on means forgetting, and how the dual process model of grief allows for restorative movement while still honoring the connection to the baby.
  

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
• Access all our support
• Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
• Join Online Communities
• Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Join the Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.

• Fertility education in schools.
  
• Support for conditions like endometriosis (endo).
  
• Addressing miscarriage and loss.
  
• The IVF and surrogacy journey.
  
• The goal is to move beyond the linear narrative of parenthood and create a more comprehensive support system.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
• Access all our support
• Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
• Join Online Communities
• Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Join the Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.

This episode is the Somali language version of the interpreted English language discussion. At Pink Elephants we wanted to thank Hinda and the Africare community for their contribution to this podcast by providing them with this version of the conversation in Somali language. Thank you!

In this deeply moving episode, we are joined by Hinda and Zahra, two inspiring women from the East African community in Melbourne, Australia. Zahra, a registered nurse and midwife, works with East AfriCare, a program dedicated to supporting East African women, particularly those who are vulnerable, new to the country, and facing language and educational barriers, through the experience of miscarriage. Hinda bravely shares her personal story of pregnancy loss and the immense challenges she faced, highlighting the critical need for more culturally sensitive support systems.

This conversation sheds light on the often-overlooked logistical and emotional burdens of miscarriage, especially for women with other young children and limited financial resources. We explore the profound statement that "healing is a privilege" and discuss the cultural nuances and taboos surrounding early pregnancy loss within East African communities, particularly Somali backgrounds.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
• Access all our support
• Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
• Join Online Communities
• Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Join the Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on Instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.

For more details on AfriCare and their services you can find them here: AfriCare Community Services

In this deeply moving episode, we are joined by Hinda and Zahra, two inspiring women from the East African community in Melbourne, Australia. Zahra, a registered nurse and midwife, works with East AfriCare, a program dedicated to supporting East African women, particularly those who are vulnerable, new to the country, and facing language and educational barriers, through the experience of miscarriage. Hinda bravely shares her personal story of pregnancy loss and the immense challenges she faced, highlighting the critical need for more culturally sensitive support systems.

This conversation sheds light on the often-overlooked logistical and emotional burdens of miscarriage, especially for women with other young children and limited financial resources. We explore the profound statement that "healing is a privilege" and discuss the cultural nuances and taboos surrounding early pregnancy loss within East African communities, particularly Somali backgrounds.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
• Access all our support
• Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
• Join Online Communities
• Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Join the Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on Instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.

For more details on Africare and their services you can find them here: Africare Community Services

In this episode, Sam chats with the founder and executive director of the Early Pregnancy Loss Coalition (EPLC), Isy Oderberg who shares her personal journey through seven pregnancy losses which ultimately inspired her to write a book.

A key focus of the discussion is the central role of Reproductive Justice, a concept that combines reproductive health with social justice. Isy stresses that the work must embed diversity and be driven by centring marginalized people who experience compounded layers of disadvantage (intersectional disadvantage).

The conversation highlights that quality care extends beyond medical treatment and requires health providers and support services to recognize and allow for the trauma experienced by marginalized groups.

Despite the historical oversight of the sector, Sam and Isy agree on their immense hope due to recent successes and ongoing momentum:

• Policy Wins: The sector successfully advocated for and achieved the first ever dedicated miscarriage funding from the Australian government.
• Clinical Guidelines: They worked with RANZCOG to support the development and release of clinical guidelines for early pregnancy loss, a massive win that provides doctors with a standard for care.
• Future Research: The ultimate goal is to get medical research funded to identify new treatable factors in the recurrent miscarriage space, giving people more options and reducing the overall number of losses.

Isy concludes that the miscarriage sector acts as a "canary in the coal mine," offering broad lessons for improving how society talks about grief and addressing medical misogyny more generally. She believes the 1 in 4 statistic is a downplay and that every person will be touched by loss in some way.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
• Access all our support
• Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
• Join Online Communities
• Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Join the Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on Instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.

In this episode, host Stacey welcomes Lauren Sun, Pink Elephants' Peer Support Coordinator, to discuss the profound impact of peer support and the crucial need for caring for the carers.

Lauren openly shares her personal history of loss, which includes three miscarriages, an ectopic pregnancy that required emergency surgery, and a vanishing twin that resulted in the birth of her son, Marcus. She notes that her losses were often so rushed and medical—especially the ectopic pregnancy and the twin loss—that she didn't have time to fully process the grief at the moment, only to have it resurface years later.

Lauren found her way to Pink Elephants five years after her last loss, feeling she had reached a point of healing where she could give back. She describes the first peer support chat as "simple" and "empowering," realizing the profound therapeutic power of acknowledgement and validation—the client only wanted to be heard and told, "I'm really sorry."

Lauren defines peer support as being there to simply hear you and validate your feelings, offering a message of hope: "It will be okay." It differs from clinical support by avoiding jargon and advice; the core service is listening and sitting with you in your pain.

She notes that peer support often acts as a frontline service, seeing people in moments of acute emotional pain, whether they are straight out of the hospital, experiencing an anniversary, or struggling with complicated emotions like being both sad for themselves and happy for a pregnant friend.

As the Peer Support Coordinator, Lauren also manages a team of lived-experience volunteers, a role she takes on by "caring for the carers." She conducts check-ins, covers shifts, and facilitates a supportive WhatsApp group, ensuring the team's capacity to continue their demanding frontline work. She believes this support system gives her own losses meaning.

Lauren shares that her relationship with grief has evolved from fear and avoidance to acceptance. She now sees grief as a normal part of life, often fitting in her pocket, but occasionally growing "huge." Her advice for dealing with a sudden onset of intense pain years after a loss is to "let it roll over you." Allow the sadness and feel the feelings, because pushing it away will only make it pop up at worse times.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

• For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
• Access all our support
• Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
• Join Online Communities
• Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
• Join the Circle of support
• Follow @pinkelephantssupport on Instagram.

Pink Elephants thanks the Australian Government for their support in funding this podcast series under the Miscarriage Support grant.