Economic theory has come to wield outsized influence over our societal goals, decisions, and policies – often relying on models that claim to optimize how human systems function. Yet the outcomes of our modern economic structures tell a different story: accelerating ecological collapse, widening inequality, declining public health, and increasing social disconnection. What if the foundational principles of mainstream economics are actually built on false assumptions that obscure the realities of our world?

In this conversation, Nate is joined by ecological economist Josh Farley to explore the persistent myths taught in business schools, and the disconnect between economic theory and reality. Building on Nate's recent Frankly episode, they unpack topics like the misconception between value and price, how GDP is a flawed measure of well-being, the truth about debt, and the ripple effects these have across market dynamics. Ultimately, Josh emphasizes the need for a new economic framework that prioritizes cooperation, well-being, and ecological stewardship.

How could we change the incentives that are embedded in our economy to prioritize the well-being of people and the planet? What would happen to our economies if we rooted them in the science of psychology, ecology, and physics? Most of all, could prioritizing cooperation and community be the key to realigning our economic systems to be in service of life?

(Conversation recorded on June 10th, 2025)

About Josh Farley:

Josh Farley is an ecological economist and Professor in Community Development & Applied Economics and Public Administration and a Fellow in the Gund Institute for Environment at the University of Vermont. He was formerly President of the International Society for Ecological Economics and the point person for the Ecological Economics Network Strategy Center, as well as part of the Leadership for the Ecozoic Initiative with McGill University. He is also the co-author with Herman Daly of Ecological Economics: Principles and Applications, 2nd edition.

His broad research interests focus on the design of an economy capable of balancing what is biophysically possible with what is socially, psychologically, and ethically desirable. His current research focuses on the economics of essential resources, social dilemmas, agroecology, the democratization of monetary and financial systems, the evolution of cooperation, the economics of information, and The Commons.

Show Notes and More

Watch this video episode on YouTube

Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.

---

Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future

Join our Substack newsletter

Join our Discord channel and connect with other listeners