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You can find out more about his work at thegrowhaus.org. If you would like to contact John Wages and propose a subject for an issue you would like to edit, email [email protected].

After Adam and I wrapped up the episode, he wanted me to share an article with you that is currently available, and he is republishing in the issue on Decolonizing Permaculture. That piece is Towards a Racially Inclusive Permaculture Community.

One of the things that initially attracted me to permaculture was the broad range of voices from so many different people around the world who, as we’ve heard time and time again when I ask for it, come from backgrounds that do not readily seem like they should intersect. Perhaps the only tenet that ties us all together is a spark that rose up and caused us to care enough for the world we live in to seek a different way, and in our search we found permaculture. It could have been anything else, but this was it. With permaculture we found a home and a community.

Wherever you come from, whatever you’ve known, whatever you do, you can practice permaculture. In that process, and through the path that you are on, you’ve learned something that matters and can make a difference in someone else’s life, and that of the community and the world, by sharing it. You can write articles for Permaculture Design Magazine. If you are comfortable with the idea, you can guest edit an issue. All you need to do is take that first step: contact John Wages and let him know your interest.

Along the way, if you have something you’d like to share with me or via the podcast, get in touch. Email: The Permaculture Podcast . If you leave a message with a question or comment, I can include it in an upcoming episode of the podcast.

Or, if you’d like to you can even send me a letter or postcard in the mail.

The Permaculture Podcast

The Permaculture Podcast

Two final notes as I draw this to a close.

First, the show depends on listener support, particularly ongoing monthly contributions that allow the space and time to go do live recordings like the recent trip to talk with Eric and Victoria of Charm City Farms, or the round-table discussion with Charles Eisenstein, Dave Jacke, and Ben Weiss.

Sign up at Patreon.com/permaculturepodcast for $5 a month and enjoy unique benefits including patron only episodes, and discounts to permaculture oriented businesses, including 25% off at Chelsea Green publishing, and 10% at Field and Forest Products, my favorite retailer for all things mushroom spawn.

Second, It’s nearly August and that means my journey to Radicle Gathering in Bowling Green, Kentucky, is getting closer. I’ll be there for all four days of the event, August 20 - 23, with a discussion on Friday, workshop on Saturday, and the Saturday keynote address on building community. Eric Puro and ThePOOSH will be there as well, as Eric is the Friday night keynote.

I look forward to seeing you there, and you can find out more at radiclegathering.com.

Until the next time, take care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

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Like this podcast? Become a Patron.

My guests for this episode are Eric and Victoria of Charm City Farms, a permaculture based urban agriculture initiative that focuses on educating and supporting individuals and communities in and around Baltimore, Maryland.

During the conversation today we open by talking about the development of a quarter acre food forest in Clifton Park, and the requirement for grant funding and organizing volunteers in order to be successful with the project, and the permaculture and primitives skills classes they offer. The second half we dig into one of those courses in detail, The Forager’s Apprentice program Victoria is running, which leads to a discussion about the role of blending academic rigour with hands on experiences. Throughout this conversation we move between the practical and the philosophical and how both play an important role in practicing permaculture and creating deep experiences.

You can find out more about what they are doing, including the Food Forest Journal at CharmCityFarms.org.

If you are in the area I recommend getting in touch with Eric and Victoria and going to visit the food forest when they are having one of the regularly Friday field days. If you can take a class with them, including The Forager’s Apprentice when it re--opens next year, I highly recommend it. You’ll find a complete listing of the different kinds of classes they offer in the show notes. If the course you are interested in isn’t listed on their website get in touch and let them know. Also sign up for their newsletter so you can see what is happening when.

I’ve known Eric for sometime through email exchanges and following his work through the Charm City Farms website. Knowing that he had a viable project going was why I wanted to sit down and interview him in person. After going down and spending a day with Victoria and Eric I was left with a positive impression of both Victoria and Eric, as well as what it is they are doing and the authenticity of their work.

The food forest is in really good shape and as we walked through they were naming the various plants using both the common name and latin binomial. They also pointed out not only the successes, but also the failures. They raised questions about why one plant did well as an outlier, but then did not thrive in what should be, by all accounts, the ideal space for that same species and cultivar.

When questioned about community engagement, it came with a humility and understanding of the difficulties of coming in as an apparent outsider and the need to integrate into a place to find out who the real leaders in a given neighborhood are in order to get the right buy-in. I asked about population and demographics and Eric was able to answer them immediately and in great detail. We talked about organizations and people and various initiatives in the city that went well beyond what you heard in the interview and what Victoria and Eric could bring to bear while we were casually walking around and discussing the two sites they are working with was encyclopedic. They’ve done the groundwork and really integrated themselves into what they are doing and taken on the roles they’ve decided for themselves and continue to look for ways to make the changes necessary to be more effective, including considering buying and renovating a home in the community near the second site they are looking to develop, where the red brick barn is located so they can be close to the space and also members of the community.

We all find inspiration in different places for the work we do. I know Ethan Hughes is an inspiration for many as he and his community are able to live within the gift economy, without gas or electricity. In conversations I’ve had with Ethan off the air he knows, however, that the Possibility Alliance model isn’t something that most people can do. It is too radical of a shift to accomplish in one lifetime. What Eric and Victoria are doing in the city, in place, is a path many many more can follow. I’m reminded of Bob Theis and his comment, which I’ll paraphrase, that there are plenty of good places we can repair and restore that already exist, rather than inflicting ourselves on some place that doesn’t need us. Now that worldwide the majority of people live in cities and metropolitan areas, urban permaculture practitioners are more vital than ever.

If you are in a place that needs you and we can work together to build the place you want to live, let me know. Get in touch.

Email: The Permaculture Podcast

The Permaculture Podcast

The Permaculture Podcast

Up next week is Adam Brock to discuss the role of a guest editor with Permaculture Design Magazine.

Until then, take care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

Charm City Farms Classes and Workshops

Permaculture Design Certification Course (72 Hours)

Wild Edibles Workshops

Woodscraft

Kids Programs

Farm and/or Homestead

Homeskills

Resources

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My guests for this episode are David Blumenkrantz and Jen Mendez. They share with us the idea of youth and community development through rites of passage. This is a conversation that encompasses education, teaching children permaculture, community development, what it means to grow up, and four of the major life experiences shared by most cultures. Those include birth, adolescence, marriage, and death.

This is something that David has worked on for 50 years in various forms before coming to examine how rites of passage and initiatory experiences influence education and community, and how reintroducing these ideas paired with indigenous wisdom and ways of knowing and scientific understanding can create a new narrative. Jen has been adapting these ideas and applying them to education design through her work and how to use them to develop new models for raising children in a way that includes care for the earth, care for ourselves, and care for others.

If you enjoy this episode or any others in the archives stretching back to 2010, I need your support to keep things going. I can’t do this without the help of each and every listener, and that includes you. Take two minutes and go over to Patreon.com/permaculturepodcast and sign up to become an ongoing listener-patron. Depending on the level you select you can receive a number of unique benefits including early access to episodes, patron only podcasts, and a discounts to different vendors. The latest providing a discount is Chelsea Green press, who are offering 25% off your order.

Should you prefer to make a one time contribution you can do so via the Donate button on the right hand side of this page.

You can find more of David and his work at Rope.org, and Jen is at Permiekids.com. I also recommend checking out the recent video I posted that provides an overview of this work on rites of passage and what David and Jen are collaborating on. This is a great way to share this idea with people you know interested in children, education, and community building to help spread the word about their project to return rite of passage and initiatory experiences to education, living, and growing up in community.

You can find more information about the course David and Jen are offering this fall from the link below. If I’m able to, with everything else going on, I am planning to participate in that course as I am able in order to examine and apply these ideas to secondary education.

https://www.permiekids.com/oursharedstory/

With all that written, one of the things that really stood out to me is when David said that this work is “the confluence of the sacred and the profane” and the blending of traditional indigenous wisdom and ways of knowing with the scientific way in order to create a new narrative and educational system for children that come together to develop our communities.

Part of that is because it touches on the need for informal, yet rigorous, education. To begin telling stories that weave together more than just the facts, that include the emotions and cultural touchstones of the things we and others around us connect with.

I like this approach because it provides a big picture for a number of related though disparate parts I’ve been mulling over and working on the past few months when it comes to my own work of establishing a sense of place for myself and my children, and how that influences my understanding of self and my permaculture practices, teaching, and creating a community.

One of the biggest influences on my perspective when it comes to permaculture and the other parts comes from the environmental education field and the writings of David Orr and David Sobel. Both work heavily around the idea of establishing a Sense of Place that roots each of us into a given biome. This is then used as both the classroom and as a teaching tool by connecting students with resources that further integrate them into the community by using examples that are close at hand to discuss various disciplines from math to science to history to language.

Once a certain core proficiency is established, such as being able to read, write, and do basic math, students progress in a non-homogenized way through their further studies by integrating things such as the local biota, climate, and geology into history classes about biology or earth science. History includes conversations about how the place where one lives fits within the greater context of national or world events. An example of that might be how during WWII the Enola Yard, a local rail yard, was receiving shipments from all over the allied territories, including the USSR, because of the risk of transport via ships to Europe. We can use examples from sports played in the area to teach math and physics. Around here most children play soccer, baseball, or softball. It makes more sense to ask them, “If Monique runs at 30 feet per second, how long does it take her to round the bases of a baseball field, a total distance of 360 ft.?” Yes it is a word problem and what is being asked for is abstract, but it’s something that can be seen. Then during recess or a gym class children can go run the bases and be timed, seeing if they can beat Monique’s time, or find out that she runs fast.

As adults this sense of place provides a community for us to get involved in. To be active in politics and be on planning commissions or various advisory boards. We can go and have our voices heard. We can work with business owners, people we can get to know, to bring permaculture into their lives, or contract with a landscape design firm if we are designers, or teach after school programs through local organizations such as the boy and girl scouts or a boys and girls club, or if one is so inclined through a church, mosque, or synagogue.

Taking this back to what David and Jen shared here, this also allows us to begin to recreate those rites of passage and initatory experiences as a community that help children and the people they call their friends and neighbors to develop the connections needed to increase the yields of all kinds to create the world we want to live in.

Together we can look beyond the immediacy of the now and the fear and separation that is fed to us every day and cast off that wrong story and have the space to create the right one. The beautiful this is that we don’t have to do this alone. We can do this in community. Start with the virtual camp fires and those people near you. Get to know people who are your allies, wherever they are, and use what you learn through these processes to start applying it where you live. Create conversations and dialogs to change the narrative, provide space for others to self-empower and find productive rites of passage and initiatory experiences, including and especially for children.

Throughout your journey if I can assist you in your efforts, let me know.

Give me a call: or email: The Permaculture Podcast

You can also follow in the conversations at facebook.com/thepermaculturepodcast, or see what I’m up to with short form updates via twitter where I am @permaculturecst. With all these shout-outs and ways to connect, I’ve begun moving the podcast to soundcloud as part of a move to a new website and server later this year. Soundcloud.com/permaculturepodcast.

Next week is an interview with Victoria and Eric of Charm City Farms about their work establishing an urban food forest in the city of Baltimore, Maryland, and after that is Adam Brock talking about the role of a guest editor with Permaculture Design Magazine in case anyone listening here would like to assist John Wages by doing so in the future.

Until the next time do something each day to create the world you want to live in by taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

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Like this podcast? Support it on Patreon.

In addition to defining what the commons are we also discuss property and property rights, the role we have in managing shared resources both finite and renewable, and how permaculture practitioners can work to create mainstream change through grassroots efforts and alliances.

One thing I bring up during the interview is The Tragedy of The Commons, an article written by Garrett Hardin in the 1960s, which was my first named introduction to this idea of commons, what they are, how they can be damaged, and what we can do to protect them. I recommend reading that article because of the impact it has had on several generations of conservationists, land managers, environmentalists, and ultimately permaculture practitioners. When you do read it don’t hold on to what is written in that piece too tightly, however, as things change pretty quickly in this conversation with David.

As we get started if you enjoy this podcast become a listener-member on Patreon. Your support is vital to the continuation of this program.

You will find more about David's work and a series of articles at his website, Bollier.org. While you are there you can also see his of books on The Commons and pick some up to expand your understanding of all the resources we share together and should manage in community with one another.

Before heading to my thoughts and other announcements, a reminder that Dave Jacke is teaching a 9 day intensive course on Forest Garden Design from October 2 - 11, 2015 at Feathered Pipe Ranch, near Helena Montana. This is the first time in three years that this course has been offered in the United States. This all inclusive class allows students to learn how to mimic forest ecosystems that include a number of valuable characteristics including stability and resilience. As with the recent interviews with Dave this have expressed, you can also expect this course to explore the human side of design including the social and economic elements. Participants will also have the opportunity to design multiple forest garden, including one for the course site as well as for the 6th Ward Forest Garden Park to be installed in Helena.

During the last several weeks I’ve been combing through my library and getting back into reading some of the books I consider classics in preparation for working my way through some new to me material on permaculture, the environment, and education. It is in that last place that I was brought back to David Orr’s writing in Earth in Mind, a collection of essays that focus, “On Education, Environment, and the Human Prospect.”

If you’ve never read it, though it’s been over 20 years since the first edition, I recommend getting a copy. Mr. Orr looks at a variety of issues using education as the common language, similar to permaculture using the landscape, but what really frames the various pieces are the environment and communities, that human element.

At one point David Orr looks at how, just as David Bollier points out, the industrial revolution changed our interactions with the environment, one another, and the connections that we share by being in community. Though we’ve always used resources as a species the last several hundred years have changed the scope and scale of our ability to extract materials from the environment and in turn to change the world around us. What once took generations can now be accomplished in less than a human lifetime. Where before we had to rely on one another, the culture we live in now allows us to disconnect as much as we can afford to do so. We don’t have to build long-term relationships with Earth or the people near us, we can take from some far off place or hire the service and skills of anyone willing to do the work and feel insulated, and isolated, in our personal castle, whatever the form it takes. With that many of us also have the social and economic mobility to pick up and go somewhere else if the place we currently inhabit doesn’t suit us any longer.

But based on this conversation with David Bollier, and re-reading David Orr, I’m reminded that there are no externalities, as much as that phrase may get used to label pollution and other unaccounted for costs of industrial production, and it is our disconnection from place and each other that allows for so much environmental and ecological devastation. Society and culture move forward at a scale that still sees the world as infinite and allows ongoing extraction of resources and economic subjugation of others, so that the resources we care about go unmanaged for the rest of us and the dirty work of developed society can be cast off to those less fortunate by virtue of forces they have no control over simply by being born in a different situation. There is a systemic roadblock that leads to mountain tops being removed to extract coal, giant strip mines being sunk into the land creating scars on the landscape, water being polluted or sequestered for hydraulic fracturing, and waste being dumped in foreign lands or indigenous cultures being forced to change by economic forces. All in the name of market forces and capitalism, which creates a narrative hegemony as the story we are told and accept is the only way, yet feel very deeply that something isn’t right.

We as permaculture practitioners have a way to show the world what can be done to make a world where all can live and thrive, abundantly and more locally. We know the land and the landscape. That’s a part of the initial attraction for many to permaculture. That’s great. Let’s keep that up for those of you who are good at getting your hands into the earth and producing food. But there are so many other places for us to plug-in. The community organizers can go and begin forging alliances with our neighboring and related movements. Pull in the transition towners, the slow foodies, the slow money investors. The engineers and architects can design systems that have life cycles that make . Doctors and nurses, physician assistants, and nurse practitioners, how can caring for our health be made more accessible, and use less non-renewable resources. I ask because a recent new reports on local talk radio addressed how many plastics and disposables are used in healthcare. What about sterilizing and recycling after use? Lawyers, how can we create laws and systems that allow permaculture to be practiced more readily and to make the things we want to do legal? Where are the leverage points where we can work outside the system without risking everything we have? For those who work in service sectors, from food to entertainment, how can the work you do be made to fall more in line with the ethics of this system of design?

As a community of practitioners we are not alone in our practices and have a wide variety of talents, skills, backgrounds, and experiences to pull from, but we cannot do this as individuals. Together, however, we have the ability to elevate this work into a broader grassroots movement that can change the world for the betterment of all life and Earth.

Join me. Let’s do this. Get in touch. . Email: The Permaculture Podcast

As I prepare to end this episode, a few announcements. First, I’m moving the regular release day for the show to Thursdays rather than Wednesdays, with “Best Of,” permabytes, and other supplementary material appearing on Mondays.

Second, I am heading to Baltimore on July 11 to record an interview with Victoria of Charm City Farms to discuss the work she and her partner are doing to bring Permaculture to Baltimore. July 13 I sit down with Adam Brock as a follow up to the recent interview with John Wages about Permaculture Design Magazine and to talk about Adam’s role as a guest editor. July 29th, Toby Hemenway and I are scheduled to talk about his latest book, The Permaculture City. If you have any questions for these upcoming guests let me know by the usual ways.

Finally, August 20 - 23 I’ll be at Radicle Gathering in Bowling Green, Kentucky, running a Permaculture question and answer session on Friday afternoon, a community vision workshop on Saturday morning, and delivering the Saturday night keynote address. Eric Puro of ThePOOSH will also be there as the Friday night Keynote speaker. If you are in the area come out and join in the fun of workshops, live music, and a whole bunch of people coming together to explore how to build resilient communities. radiclegathering.org.

Up next week in a two-person interview are Dr. David Blumenkrantz with Jen Mendez of PermieKids to discuss Rites of Passage and Initiatory Experiences in community development and education.

Until then, take care of Earth, your self, and each other.