Kelly talks with Yvonnick Denoël about his new book, Vatican Spies: From the Second World War to Pope Francis, exploring the Vatican's little-known intelligence operations. Yvonnick is a French historian, publisher and intelligence specialist who has written on the CIA, Mossad, and espionage in the twentieth century. His new book uncovers a little-known side of Vatican history that saw the Holy See develop its own extensive espionage capability that still exists today.

Link to Vatican Spies: From the Second World War to Pope Francis: https://www.amazon.com/Vatican-Spies-Second-World-Francis-ebook/dp/B0DNZVX2VS?ref_=ast_author_mpb

The opinions expressed in this conversation are strictly those of the participants and do not represent the views of Georgetown University or any government entity.

Produced by Theo Malhotra and Freddie Mallinson.

Recorded on June 9, 2025. Diplomatic Immunity, a podcast from the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy at Georgetown University, brings you frank and candid conversations with experts on the issues facing diplomats and national security decision-makers around the world.

Funding support from the Carnegie Corporation of New York.

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